Just got off the phone with CDNN . . .


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Chuck Jennings
February 17, 2004, 07:27 PM
and I had to vent a little bit:

I called to inquire about the really great special they have on Ruger PC4 carbines. You get a used carbine in good to excellent condition, sling, buttcuff and an 11 round magazine for only $339!!

So, being a CA resident I called to ask if it would be possible to purchase this gun WITHOUT the magazine. I explained that I would be willing to pay full price, but unfortunately, they said it was impossible to do that. Oh well, I thought, it was worth a try. I explained to the helpful gentleman on the phone that the reason I had been asking was because I am a CA resident, and he said, “We don’t ship those to CA anyway”. I knew that they had recently stopped shipping handguns to California, so I asked what guns they don’t ship to CA. He said, “We do not ship any semi-automatic defensive firearms to California.” :banghead:

Needless to say, I found the last statement disheartening. It is too bad that the legal situation in CA has deteriorated so much that good law abiding companies are not selling to CA residents anymore. I will be paying more for the same gun, and CDNN will not be selling to a state that contains 20% of the US population.

</rant>

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Ukraine Train
February 17, 2004, 07:30 PM
I'd start packing my bags now lol.

Greybeard
February 17, 2004, 07:42 PM
Too bad for both you and the distributor.

Sure glad that 20% does not dictate for the other 80%. (Yet.)

JoeWang
February 17, 2004, 08:07 PM
Feel sorry for your situation. Too bad all the gun distributors have lawyers crawling up their a$zes that they can't ship otherwise legal arms to citizens.

I'm not even going to start with the SF situation.

Standing Wolf
February 17, 2004, 09:00 PM
We do not ship any semi-automatic defensive firearms to California.

I'll probably always miss the beaches.

sturmruger
February 17, 2004, 09:27 PM
I know it sucks to be in your shoes, but there are allot of gun owners in CA that need to start doing something about their States politics. I know it is twisted but I hope more and more retailers refuse to ship into CA with the hope that it will start to wake up all the people that are slowly letting your great state become the liberal bastion of the US!!! I hope it goes another step further and manufacturers start refusing to get their handguns approved by the state. Let’s just write off CA and hope that all the shooters in Cali start to wake up and get energized. I know this sounds kind of twisted, but it is going to take some serious SXXX to get Californians to wake up and come to their senses.

SMLE
February 17, 2004, 10:02 PM
I agree with your point. And I also think that such a boycott of Ca. MUST include all Gov't agencies as well. If all the gun and ammo manufactures refused to sell to CHP or LAPD now THAT would throw the fecal matter into the rotary airfoil.

Langenator
February 17, 2004, 10:06 PM
Probably the best way for gun manufacturers to get the state government's attention would be to all get together and wait for the next time the state puts out the contract for pistols for the Highway Patrol. And no company puts in a bid. Ditto for any weapons contracts for the state Dept of Corrections. And make sure those agencies know why they're not getting any bids.

When the state's law enforcement agencies (or JBTs, whichever you prefer) can't get new guns, maybe the powers that be will wake up.

NavajoNPaleFace
February 17, 2004, 10:43 PM
Oh, California would get their guns for their LEOs one way or another.

Likely they'd go on the open market, charge the $100+ extra to the ********** tax payers and then sue the companies for not putting in bids.

If you're not a commited felon...in prison...in chains....time to get the heck out of PRK!

Otherwise you might have to just suck it up! LOL (just making fun of a terrible situation, I know).

G1FAL
February 17, 2004, 11:17 PM
I know it is twisted but I hope more and more retailers refuse to ship into CA with the hope that it will start to wake up all the people that are slowly letting your great state become the liberal bastion of the US!!! I hope it goes another step further and manufacturers start refusing to get their handguns approved by the state. Let’s just write off CA and hope that all the shooters in Cali start to wake up and get energized. I know this sounds kind of twisted, but it is going to take some serious SXXX to get Californians to wake up and come to their senses.

Its not twisted, I dont think. Mostly because I agree with you. But I take things a step further. I'll elaborate in a minnute.

agree with your point. And I also think that such a boycott of Ca. MUST include all Gov't agencies as well. If all the gun and ammo manufactures refused to sell to CHP or LAPD now THAT would throw the fecal matter into the rotary airfoil.

Thats a good idea. Good luck getting Snakes & Weasels or Glunk to agree to it, though.

Probably the best way for gun manufacturers to get the state government's attention would be to all get together and wait for the next time the state puts out the contract for pistols for the Highway Patrol. And no company puts in a bid. Ditto for any weapons contracts for the state Dept of Corrections. And make sure those agencies know why they're not getting any bids.

When the state's law enforcement agencies (or JBTs, whichever you prefer) can't get new guns, maybe the powers that be will wake up.

That would be the most effective, however just like the last idea, good luck getting them to do it. I cant see Bushmaster, Colt, FN, Snakes & Weasels, Glunk, or any of the rest giving up multi-million dollar contracts just to prove a point. They are corporations, and they look at one thing, above all else: bottom line. Now, if ALL civilians refused to buy their stuff UNTIL such time as they were to put the screws to the Kommiefornia legislature, that MIGHT have some effect. But are you going to be able to get all civilians to do so? Miracles can happen, but pardon me if I dont hold my breath.

Now, to elaborate my above sentance.

I dont buy ANYTHING from Kommiefornia, if there is a comparable product that's within the same price range, within up to about 30% more expensive. Had I known ProMag was located there BEFORE I ordered some mags from CDNN, I wouldnt have bought them.

And I'm not talking just firearms related stuff, either. I go to the grocery store, there is some strawberries there. Mmm, I love strawberries. I would rather have strawberries than pretty much any candy, chips, snack crackers, etc. So maybe I'll get me some strawberries....whats this, "Kommiefornia strawberries"!?! Well, I guess I dont need them that badly after all. I've still got some frozen ones from my grandma's garden in the freezer, and eventually this state will thaw out and there will be locally grown berries to be had. Kommiefornia cheese is out, too. Companies who have their headquarters in that state, I leave their stuff on the shelf. Whether its glass cleaner, toilet paper, car parts, or pet needs, if it is from Kommiefornia, it stays on the shelf. Unfortunately, it is exceedingly hard to find anything computer-related, esp. software, that the same can be done with.

Now granted, my one-man boycott has had no effect on that state. I wont delude myself into thinking that it has. But think of the effect that they would feel if, say, a couple million people started doing this. If places like What A Country couldnt get ANY business, are sitting on warehouses full of gun parts, and move out of state. Oops, there goes all that revenue. The cheese farmers (growers? producers? whatever you call them) see their sales drop, cant GIVE the crap away. Strawberries (oh, those poor strawberries....but sacrifices must be made), lettuce, etc., rot in the fields, because no one is buying it, so why pick it? Too bad all those illegals will be out of a job. Wait, no, that doesnt bother me in the slightest.

Think what would happen to KA's treasury if this were to happen. Let them sit on the edge of the knife for a while, then say "Oh, by the way, we arent buying your crap because of certain policies you have regarding firearms. Until those policies are removed, the boycott remains. Have a nice day."

But, unless a few million people, at the very least, were to get in on it, it probably wont have much effect.

Brian Dale
February 17, 2004, 11:46 PM
Like your style, G1FAL. Good idea. ;)

pittspilot
February 18, 2004, 01:33 AM
You think that Springfield Longslide is a "defensive semi-auto"?

PATH
February 18, 2004, 02:02 AM
Boycott all things Californian? Hmmm! Where could one find a list of all companies and products to boycott?:confused: Not a bad idea though!

Sactown
February 18, 2004, 02:07 AM
they will only ship bolt action rifles and pump shotguns to kali. I was looking to get the IZH35M and they said only bolt action rifles and pump action shotguns to kali.

G1FAL
February 18, 2004, 02:36 PM
PATH, if you're really serious about it, you can look on the labels of the products in question. Like the strawberries, for example, agricultural products usually have it right on the packaging. The stores will also put it on a big sign near the product, too ("********** strawberries", "Florida Oranges", "Idaho potatoes", etc.). Boxes of cracker, cereal, soap, whatever, will list on the package somewhere a place that you can write or call ("Questions? Comments? Write or call .... ").

I have a box of Goldfish Crackers by my computer. On the box, by the nutrition information, it says:

Pepperidge Farm Incorporated
Norwalk, CT 06856

Questions or Comments?
1-888-737-7374

Visit our website
at www.pfgoldfish.com

As far as I know, neither Pepperidge Farm nor Connecticut are rabidly anti-gun, like Kommiefornia is.

If you look thru the Shotgun News, the companies in there will have not only their website address, but also snailmail and phone #'s.

Should be the same for almost any ad you see in a magazine or online. If the snailmail addy isnt in the ad, but they have a website, check out the "Contact Us" part, should give a snailmail. If not, or if you suspect that the parent company is in the PRK, you could fire off an email or phone call to confirm your suspicions.

The only company I know, right off the bat, that supplies mags, gun parts, etc., thats in the PRK is What A Country, and thats only because while looking thru the pages of SGN, I have found numerous things from there that I wanted, and keep forgetting that they are in KA. So I circle a bunch of stuff, then look for their address, and there it is: Mission Viejo, CA. Oops. Guess I wont be ordering after all.

You want, I can go thru SGN tonight at work and write down the companies that I find in there, and post it after I get home tonight.

Chuck Jennings
February 18, 2004, 03:04 PM
I guess while we are at it, we should be boycotting anything that comes out of NJ, NY, Chicago, and D.C. California is not the only offender in the anti RKBA movement.

If a boycott is to work we need to fight where ever there is a problem. Then perhaps the Feds might take notice.

harpethriver
February 18, 2004, 03:28 PM
As a former resident of Ventura County (over 20 years) I realized there are 2 choices, stay and fight or move, continue to fight with real succeses, and enjoy life and freedom a little more. Unless you're absolutely locked in to Ca. I suggest you take a look at other parts of the country. You might find that a little more freedom, a lower cost of living and crime rate, and seasons that actually change is a mighty nice combination. I'm waiting for Ca. to start a secessionist movement anyway. If Cuba was any closer they might have already done it.

RobW
February 18, 2004, 03:41 PM
G1FAL: It's at least a 2-man Boycott, because I'm on it for years. I loved to go to San Diego, Old Town, Zoo, Seaworld, Padres, Gaslight...

Stopped it as soon as I recognized the state was becoming an anti-American territory. And, to be precise, it's not the rural areas, its just SF, LA, and SD pressing their anti-freedom views onto the state and the whole Country. No support from me at all.

Chuck Jennings
February 18, 2004, 04:22 PM
Being a former Navy brat, I have lived all over the country. My parents chose to leave San Diego back in the 80's when real estate got out of control. My favorite place to live when I was younger was CA. I did choose to move here nearly four years ago, and understood (partially) what I was getting into. (And now have a better understanding of why my family left.)

The entertainment industry brought me out here. (I had worked as a professional musician in St. Louis, Branson, and Nashville) I came out here and made enough money to live comfortably in California and have a home a couple blocks from the Pacific Ocean. The "lack of seasons" isn't an issue for me, because if I want to see snow, I can drive to it. Just two weeks ago I was in the mountains visiting family, had a snowball fight, and then left the snow up there on the mountain where it wouldn't bother me during my trips to work/school. Since I have moved here, the excellent climate has made it easy for me to be in the best shape of my life, and I have only been sick with the flu once in almost 4 years. For now, I choose to stay and fight. However, after I am finished with law school out here, my wife and I may be making an escape to a free state. On that happy day, I will be collecting a lot of my “Evil” Weapons and High Capacity Magazines from my stash back in MO.

California is one of the most remarkable places on this planet. It is so sad to see that it is no longer the place of prosperity opportunity, and freedom that it was in the 40’s and 50’s. And as RobW said, it is the toxic influences of the socialists that have come to power in the major cities that have caused the problems we are facing today.

Let California be a cautionary tale for all of you. This is a political dynamic that has happened in other states that have a large city, but are mostly rural. Look what the city politics of NYC, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis and Kansas City have done to the RKBA efforts in their states. Don’t take your freedoms for granted, and don’t give an inch.

Larry Ashcraft
February 18, 2004, 04:52 PM
Look what the city politics of NYC, Detroit, Chicago, St. Louis and Kansas City have done to the RKBA efforts in their states.
You left out Denver. :mad:

G1FAL
February 19, 2004, 12:45 AM
I guess while we are at it, we should be boycotting anything that comes out of NJ, NY, Chicago, and D.C. California is not the only offender in the anti RKBA movement.

If a boycott is to work we need to fight where ever there is a problem. Then perhaps the Feds might take notice.

I also try to avoid buying anything from Na Yak, New Joisey, and Ill-noise whenever possible. Just didnt want to throw it all in at once, ya know?

Anyway, I think that perhaps the PRK would be the best initial target. They produce a LOT of stuff, they're very far into the red, and it doesnt look like they'll be getting out of the red any time soon. They've also got the most virulent anti-freedom crowd. And the rest of the commies follow the PRK's lead. If we can make Kommiefornia suffer, they might just sit up and take notice.

Andrew Wyatt
February 19, 2004, 01:44 AM
I know it sucks to be in your shoes, but there are allot of gun owners in CA that need to start doing something about their States politics.


It's kinda hard to get anywhere in political activism in a majority rule system when you're not in the majority.

Calibashing is an awful lot like the french bashing the poles in '39.

G1FAL
February 19, 2004, 02:00 AM
It's kinda hard to get anywhere in political activism in a majority rule system when you're not in the majority.

Hows that quote go, about not needing a majority, but rather a tireless minority who will light brushfires in people's minds?

To be fair, though, I dont think that would work in your state. I'd personally think KA is a lost cause. There are far too many who slop from the public trough, and will go along with whatever their feedmasters say. Add them to the various blissninnies, such as the envirocommies, the animal 'rights' commies, and pretty much the entire UC Berkley campus (and most of the Bay area, as well as LA, SD, and Sac).

Good luck in the future. I will continue my boycott, and try to get others to do the same.

dustind
February 19, 2004, 10:36 AM
I will help out with the boycott. It may not be a bad idea to move and help keep Kali from spreading to other states, plus you get to enjoy freedom.

G1FAL
February 19, 2004, 01:46 PM
I didnt have a chance to look thru SGN last night at work. I was VERY busy. But I did manage to thumb thru one a little this morning (the Feb.1 issue), and here are the companies that I found.

Visual Technologies
The Dealer Warehouse
Shooting Mall
Applied Laser
ITT Industries (they make night vision)
Alex Imports
Entreprise Arms
E.M.F. Co., Inc.
American Gunsmithing Institute
M.S.G. (AK stock sets)
Vern Grazer (rotary gun racks)
Sturdy Gun Safe
Huntington (pistol and rifle dies)
Placer C.B.S.
JK International, Inc.
Dean Security Safe Co.
Night Optics USA, Inc.
Golden West Brass Industry

The Feb. 20 issue of SGN will go to work with me again today. Hopefully I find time to go thru it. I know there are plenty more companies that I didnt get on that list.

Penforhire
February 19, 2004, 01:59 PM
Boycott all things **********n? Hah! For better or worse, CA's economy dwarfs the remainder of the US. It would be the 8th largest economy in the world, if compared against countries. Something like 30% of Americans live in CA. A boycott that broad would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I want things to change here too. I want my AR (waaaaaa...)!

Chuck Jennings
February 19, 2004, 02:01 PM
The outdoor channel is based in Temecula CA.

Rockrivr1
February 19, 2004, 02:04 PM
You might as well add Massachusetts to the boycott list as our AG has sent legal notices to all online ammunition distributors to stop shipping ammo to the state. He's been threatoning lawsuits and fines for anyone who does. It has something to do with being properly licensed for the state.

Well, now nobody will ship ammo here. Ever try to buy 50 cal ammo from a local reseller? Yeah, can you say "bent over a barrel"!

Not to mention the whole approved handgun list we have as well. Vermont and New Hampshire are looking better and better every day!!!

G1FAL
February 20, 2004, 12:50 AM
Boycott all things **********n? Hah! For better or worse, CA's economy dwarfs the remainder of the US. It would be the 8th largest economy in the world, if compared against countries. Something like 30% of Americans live in CA. A boycott that broad would be like cutting off your nose to spite your face. I want things to change here too. I want my AR (waaaaaa...)!

Thats fine by me. Kommiefornia doesnt have anything that is an absolute necessity in my life. If KA is so great ("oooh, we've got SUCH a large economy!") then how come that large economy is in the red? Why does the saying "Its not the size, its how you use it" spring to mind? Using it by supporting every liberal cause that comes along... giving welfare, housing, medical care, schooling, etc. to illegal aliens... watching the state legislature run roughshod over the people of the state, and the libs in other states follow that example... It'd be nice to see CONgress kick KA out of the union. Unfortunately, thats not going to happen. We cant vote in your elections, and too many people there are happy with things the way they are. We have to fight somehow.

Rockrivr, one state at a time, OK? The enemy is at their strongest in KA. They take their orders from there, follow the examples set there. Make them hurt THERE, the ones in other states will run to cover with their tails between their legs.

Anyway, here is some more companies I found in the Feb. 20 issue of SGN. I hope there are no duplicates, please excuse it if there are.

Surf City Firearms
Pacific Canvas & Leather Co., Inc.
New Helvetia Trade Group (NHM Co.)
Richards Microfit Stocks
Northridge International Inc.
Tech Plate
Forrest Co. (www.gunmags.com) <--This one really bites. They've got a lot of decent deals on mags that I want and need. Oh well, sacrifices....
RK Enterprises

Also, when in doubt (because the company doesnt have their address in their ad), the following area codes:

530 408 619 310 707 831 909 323
916 559 949 818 925 805 714 626
415 661 562 510 760 424 650 858
213

BamBam-31
February 20, 2004, 03:36 AM
A Kali-bashing crusade. How cute. :rolleyes:

Our ENTIRE COUNTRY is in the red. Hmm, maybe that means our national economy is trivial and suceptible to a Canadian boycott. Or not.

In case you missed it, we are NOT satisfied with the status quo here in California. Davis got the boot, the Govenator is in, and rabid gun control is out. If you read anything about gun control stances in the last election, everyone backed off further gun control legislation and stated that the laws that were in place were enough. Still bad, I know, but the pendulum is no longer swinging in that direction.

All this, without your trivial boycott. We did it ourselves.

I'm getting tired of Kali-bashing threads. They just scream U.S.S. to me (that's Ugly Sister Syndrome). It's not our fault you're stuck in Bore-hio.

Childish, isn't it? That's how you sound. I'm going to stop calling it Bore-hio now because I'm sure Ohio is a great place filled with great people, and I'd rather not offend an entire state with inane name-calling, no matter what their politics. Join the rest of us on the HIGH Road, eh? Kali-bashing is member bashing on a statewide level. Don't believe me? Re-read the previous posts.

To name just a few, my small arsenal consists of an M1a, a Rem 700 PSS, a Rem 870, several pistols, and plenty of standard cap mags that I had the foresight to buy back in '89. Unless I'm standing next to Rambo, I don't consider myself under-equipped for anything. Bring on the U.N. Bring on the rioters, looters, and bangers. Bring on the illegal aliens, space aliens, and space cadets. Contrary to popular belief, I'm just as well-equipped to deal with the above as you are in your state.

Sheesh. Sometimes these Kali-bashing threads make it sound like my .308 holes aren't as big as your .308 holes in Texas, or Arkansas, or Ohio. I don't think E.T. will know the difference between a .308 shot out of a FAL and one shot out of an M1a. They'll both sting pretty good, I'm sure.

Am I pissed that I can't buy the dreaded EBR's (among other things)? You bet. Am I going to drop everything, sell all I own, say goodbye to all my friends and relatives, and move to Alaska (no offense, Wildalaska, Cosmoline, etc.), just so I can buy an AK or AR?

Yeah, right. I'll give up my guns before I give up my friends and family. And I'm not giving up my guns. And I'm not giving up the laundry list of great reasons why living in California is better than living anywhere else on the face of the planet.

I'm going to stay and change what I can, one person at a time. I already have, on numerous occasions. If they, in turn, spread the message, then all the better. THAT'S how it's done, not with some meaningless boycott.

Hi, I'm BamBam-31. I own guns, and I live in California. I'm on your side. :)

(Sorry about the threadjack. We now return you to your normal program....)

Chuck Jennings
February 20, 2004, 03:51 AM
Keep in mind that the antis want to divide and conquer. As a wise man once said, "We must all hang together, or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

I understand the idea of a boycott for political ends, but I don't see how setting out on a campaign to shut down a lot of good family owned gun related businesses is going to further the cause of RKBA.

DougCxx
February 20, 2004, 03:52 AM
- Okay I have a question: lately I have gotten interested in night-vision scopes, and have been shopping around online quite a bit. I have run across at least one site that says they do not ship NV-weaponsights to California, but some of the other head-mount and hand-held NV scopes also say they cannot be shipped to Ca.
So what's up with NV there?
Is that illegal too?
~

Chuck Jennings
February 20, 2004, 04:04 AM
From CA code:

468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

As a result many companies don't bother with the hassle of figuring what is allowed and what isn't. Sportsman's guide for instance just doesn't ship any NV to CA.

Beetle Bailey
February 20, 2004, 04:15 AM
Ya know, I was in one of the gunshops here in California and the owner was talking to me about how sometimes he wants to order parts or accessories from distributors and they will yell at him and scream "We don't ship to California!" He responses "What are you yelling at me for? I'm a dealer - I'm pro-gun! " :scrutiny:

Please forgive me, but I don't see how tormenting a Californian who is obviously pro-gun is going to help anything. If all the shops in California went out of business, do you think the anti-gun people are gonna stop and say to themselves, "Hmmm. . .we shouldn't have angered all those gunowners in those other states. Now we have no more gunshops." ?

I personally don't care who hates California and I don't care if you boycott our strawberries (they are quite good and I have two nice baskets of them in the fridge right now :neener: ) but attacking California gunowners has got to be the most counterproductive thing anyone can do. :scrutiny:

BamBam-31
February 20, 2004, 12:20 PM
Just to clarify, I'm not against people ranting about California's anti-gun legislation. Heck, I do it myself, A LOT.

It's just that ALL of these Kali-bashing threads end up being ad hominem attacks very quickly. In no time, someone will come along and insinuate that "KA" is filled with "fruits and nuts." I am neither. And these comments, taken in a different context, would not be tolerated by Moderators. If it's about Kali, though, it's okay, and even the Mods will jump in from time to time to kick the carcass.

:rolleyes:

What if I said everyone in Missouri is a "fruit and nut" and that they should "secede from the Union?" I'd get a PM pretty soon, I'm sure. And deservedly so.

A lot of this Kali-bashing is either influenced by some other agenda or is simply misguided. Makes a lot of people feel better about themselves to knock California off it's pedestal. Better than tipping cows, eh?

As I stated to George Hill, Kali-bashing is divisive and unproductive. As clbj stated,

a wise man once said, "We must all hang together, or most assuredly, we shall all hang separately."

Are you a separatist, Mr. Kali-basher? If so, tattoo that quote on your shooting arm. And read it when you're reaching for those California strawberries.

G1FAL
February 20, 2004, 03:35 PM
Kali bashing? Kali bashing? Hmm....I didnt say anything about Kali being the BReakfast Cereal State (full of fruits, nuts, and flakes); you did. I was making an attempt at being civil, you're the one getting all butt-hurt. Thats your choice. Some people like to be butt-hurt, about the smallest little thing. And thats their right, too.

Keep in mind, the liberal lunacy thats enacted in KA today, is the same lunacy that will be enacted in NY tomorrow....and MA the day after....and MD and IL the day after that. So its not like bad ideas are unable to penetrate the border with Nevada, Arizona, or Oregon.

I know that the majority of gun owners in KA dont like things the way they are. But you're so badly outnumbered, it makes the battle at the Alamo look like a fair fight. So basically, unless you can find something else to hang the enemy with, you're screwed. And like I said above...

Politicians listen to money, and money only. They are keeping quiet on gun control, but for how long? And its not like they've suddenly seen the light and wont enact any more. They just arent going to say anything about it till after elections. They want to win. Its a little hard to feed from the public trough if you lose the election. Arnold is no friend to gun owners, and I dont think that you're foolish enough to believe otherwise.

Those of us in the rest of the country cant vote in your elections, like I said. What would you have us do? We have ONE way of making your politicos stop and think. And you sit there and talk about how hopeless it is, childish, this and that. Hey, its your right to think that.

Just remember what I said. Today is KA, tomorrow its NY, and so on.

Chuck Jennings
February 20, 2004, 05:08 PM
I believe that the idea that CA is the center of the anti universe is flawed. We have been able to stem the tide. We defeated a .50 ban. We had a governor candidate that ran with repealing gun control in his platform and got a sizable portion of the vote. You CAN get a CCW in CA. You can buy an air rifle without a huge hassle. Not all states can say that. Luckily, the crazy laws that have been passed have been a wake up call for the CA gun owners that thought it would never happen. The fight is on, and we CAN win. The recent recall has left the socialist power structure stunned and unable to figure out what to do in the renewed populist climate.

The enemy is everywhere. The anti lobby groups write up this legislation and shop it around to see who will buy it. CA was unlucky enough to have a stretch with liberals in control to push this stuff through. The pendulum is swinging in our direction. Arnold is not our friend, but he knows damn well not to touch the third rail of gun control, or he will lose his core constituency.

Don’t be surprised to see “common sense” gun control measures in Ohio introduced once the details of the whole “sniper” thing have been released. IL and GA have AW bills under consideration that are MORE restrictive than CA. The bills have a chance to pass in part because of the enemy that is among us: the shooter that doesn’t care about another shooter.

As I said in a previous post, let CA be a cautionary tale of what can happen. I however don’t think of CA as a lost cause that needs to be kicked out of the union. (as some do) I like to think of CA as a talented promising youngster that fell in with the wrong crowd. It just needs a little guidance to get back on the right track. Kicking CA gun people when they are down will ultimately only hurt the cause.

Beren
February 20, 2004, 05:28 PM
What CLBJ said. If we're going to kick out states, let's start with New Jersey. America begins at the PA border. :)

:neener:

Intune
February 20, 2004, 06:03 PM
Makes a lot of people feel better about themselves to knock California off it's pedestal. Better than tipping cows, eh?
I rekon yer rite,,Iz jest wunderin Suh. wich 'pedestall" mite ye be referin too? nobodi in theez hear parts putts much stock in placing supphosed valubles up high enuff to git nocked down. pritty brite eh? iz thatthere kettle black u rekon? Y'all have a goodun.



With that horse hockey outta the way, IF there was some type of organized boycott of Cali, the merchants, factories and distribution centers that deal with firearms and their ancillary subsidiaries should NOT be on the list. These folks, in addition to our brethren-in-arms, deserve our support for sticking it out.

BamBam-31
February 20, 2004, 06:49 PM
Intune, you're right, of course. I was responding in kind to make a point.

G1FAL, name-calling will get us nowhere. Putting California strawberry farmers out of business to further your gun rights in Ohio will get you nowhere. If that isn't misguided, I don't know what is.

As for attempts at "civility," go back and re-read your posts. What a joke. You make my case for me against Kali-bashers. Thank you for being an exemplary prototype.

For our more reasonable members, please let me reiterate the importance of unity amongst gunowners. Kali-bashing is the LAST thing we need. Think about it.

(Edited for clarity.)

Intune
February 20, 2004, 07:25 PM
Edited for brotherhood!

If I misinterpreted your analogy, my apologies. If not, we can continue via pm if you have a mind to. Enough here.

Intune
February 20, 2004, 07:39 PM
What can we do to alter the anti’s chokehold on our pubic officials? (Not just CA ;) ) I believe we need to begin with the younger generation to counter the negative specter of guns that the anti’s are foisting upon our children. Fight back when a child is expelled for drawing war scenes or guns. Remember when schools had rifle clubs? Not drill teams, SHOOTING teams. Is this something the NRA could advance with the help of dedicated locals? “But it’s so dangerous. What about our children?”

It is estimated that one-third of playground equipment-related deaths and 75 percent of playground equipment-related injuries occur on public playgrounds.
Since 1990, at least 147 children have died from playground equipment-related injuries.
In 2002, more than 215,500 children ages 14 and under were treated in hospital emergency rooms for playground equipment-related injuries; children ages 5 to 14 accounted for nearly 75 percent of these injuries. The public playground equipment-related injury rate among children ages 5 and under has doubled since 1980.


Every school I’ve ever seen has a playground. I daresay shooting is a much safer sport. Guns cause an unfounded fear in some people and our enemies are utilizing that fear. Causing that fear every chance they get. Demonizing guns & gunowners. We MUST counter with something positive.

Chuck Jennings
February 20, 2004, 07:58 PM
MY wife and I (she is a former farm girl from MO, and she never tipped a cow :neener: ) take people shooting. Most of the people she works with are women who are UC-Berkley or Stanford graduates. They agree to go along to taste some "forbidden fruit". By the time they are done shooting, they usually start asking us how much this or that gun costs. Some of them will get mad when they find out how difficult and complicated it is for them to get a gun. Some get REALLY mad when they find out how they can't go get that affordable AK like the other guy at the range has. ("I would only want to shoot it for fun. It's not like I'm going to go shoot someone with it.") When you hear a statement like that, you know you have won!

The battle will be won by winning hearts and minds. It WILL NOT be won through bullying, condescenion, and pi**ing matches.

BamBam-31
February 20, 2004, 08:01 PM
Intune, the "joke" comment was not directed at you, but at G1FAL. I did not address him directly or by name with the comment, just by reference to his use of the word "civil." My bad for being unclear.

Obviously, you were offended by the name-calling. I was agreeing with you that it is pointless and divisive. I did it (probably my own misguided attempt) to illustrate how G1FAL's tone and approach were unproductive. By imitating them, I have offended you, and that was not my aim. My apologies.

Actually, the direction of this thread is very similar to most Kali-bashing threads. Misunderstandings, name-calling, and finally some Mod drops the hammer. And for what? How does this further our cause collectively as gunowners?

Intune
February 20, 2004, 09:07 PM
We're cool BB. All the states have +'s & -'s, CA is just always on the top of the wave so when we see the crap being pulled off there it worries the rest of us "normal" people! :D Sorry, couldn't resist! Clbj & spouse have the right idea but we need to be doing more on the kid side. "They" are brainwashing our children, make no mistake about it. And if not brainwashing then outright intimidation. If you draw this, say this, point your finger like this, the MAN will deal with you. HARSHLY. Orwellian to the max.

Autolite
February 20, 2004, 09:45 PM
Is California banning the Ruger PC4 or is the distributor simply refusing to ship to CA. Cannot the carbine be brought into the state via another dealer? Don't let the BS get you down clbj. If they won't let you buy your PC4, you can come visit me up here in Alberta Canada and you can try out my Ruger PC9. Or perhaps you would like to squeeze off a few rounds from my KMini 14/5/RF, you know, those factory Mini 14's with the folding stocks and the pistol grips that the Canadian federal government doesn't seem to have any problem with despite the fact that the most recent Canadian Federal firearm laws were directly influenced by the American AWB of '94.
Opps, sorry ... did I say that out loud ???

Chuck Jennings
February 21, 2004, 02:50 AM
The PC4 is CA legal. It is one of the few long guns with a detachable magazine allowed in California. They run around $450 out here. CDNN has a special on them for $339. That price also included a sling and a buttcuff. So I called them up, and they informed me that they no longer ship “semi-automatic defensive arms” to CA.

They used to deal with California, but they got sick of keeping track of what handguns are on the CA approved list so they stopped selling handguns to CA. It was news to me however, that they had expanded the list of what they would not ship to CA. I was just disappointed that I missed out on a great deal due to politics. I thought I would cry on the shoulder of some of my gun-toting brethren a little bit, but instead I unearthed a groundswell of acrimony for all things Californian.

BluesBear
February 21, 2004, 03:29 AM
What it seems we need here, is for a non California dealer to step up to the plate, order a PC4 from CDNN and, after they receive it, turn around and ship it to your dealer of choice in CA. Hopefully the middle dealer will do this at no charge to promote good will and (since this is legal) thumb our collective noses at CDNN for being too lazy and uncaring to take care of business.

What if a major automobile maker said they were going to stop shipping cars to California because keeping track of the exhaust emissions requirements for CA were too confusing? How would you react to that?

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