Anything can be broken. I broke my 10mm Elite Match


PDA






intercooler
May 5, 2012, 01:58 PM
Just don't understand the area that it cracked. I'm debating doing nothing :what: Pics are here where I put others of cracked slides:

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/pages/EAA-Firearms/206257602745613

If you enjoyed reading about "Anything can be broken. I broke my 10mm Elite Match" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
ApacheCoTodd
May 5, 2012, 03:45 PM
How about some photos that don't involve signing in to Facebook?

They (Colt) said the original Delta slide cracks were inconsequential. So there's that.

intercooler
May 5, 2012, 04:09 PM
I didn't even realize they had that option here. Next time but that is easier for me to do.

skt239
May 5, 2012, 04:37 PM
Well, no one will be able to see the pics since the link just redirects me to my own wall. I think only people who are friends with you will be able to see them. Posting pics here is really simple and would help make this thread worth while. That or a better description of where the crack is...

intercooler
May 5, 2012, 04:52 PM
I thought everyone could see it since I made it public. Learn something new...

See if these work

HankC
May 5, 2012, 04:53 PM
Send it back to EAA. I've heard 10mm slide cracks, but crack at mag release is a new one.

intercooler
May 5, 2012, 04:53 PM
This is the area on both sides.

intercooler
May 5, 2012, 05:09 PM
I could. Probably run $40-$50 to go there and back. Not terrible but I'm just thinking the replacment may do the same. Lots of meat in areas around where I don't think it will do anything.

Manson
May 5, 2012, 05:17 PM
Sorry to see you are having these issues. I think the very least I would do is contact them and see what they say.

ApacheCoTodd
May 5, 2012, 05:18 PM
I'd send it back if you're up to it. I don't think it can be assumed another would react the same but I get what you're thinkin'.

I'd certainly be looking into an uprated spring.

intercooler
May 5, 2012, 05:26 PM
It has a 22lb Wolff spring and a Henning flat bottom firing pin block. Doesn't get much better than that.

I think where it cracked their is litterly no meat from side to side on the backside of the release. I bet it had more to do with putting mags in than anything else.

My thoughts on sending it in is if (Big IF!) they replace the frame I would have to re-register the new serial. $50 goes to $130!

5-SHOTS
May 5, 2012, 06:35 PM
It is a well known problem with 10mm Tanfoglio pistols because the factory recoil spring is too weak for the caliber. But since you put a 22lb one on yours the lack of steel in that area is probably the cause of the crack. Don't forget that Tanfoglio frames are cast. For now you do need a replacement gun from EAA. In other cases they replaced the gun with no questions.

ApacheCoTodd
May 5, 2012, 08:03 PM
I understand not wanting to go through the hassle of a new number but think that whatever work the cracked portion was performing or was supposed to perform in holding the pistol together has now been transferred "on down the line" so to speak. At a minimum, I would magna-flux the frame if you get to shooting it much more.

Additionally - as a manufacturer, we several times re-ran a number after confirming destruction of the original (on site). If this is still allowed - perhaps they'll do it for you.

Being cast "stainless" welding can be problematic but not impossible for a qualified shop.

SlamFire1
May 5, 2012, 10:08 PM
If it is new the company should replace the frame. I do not consider it acceptable to have a cracked frame on a pistol under warranty.

Certaindeaf
May 5, 2012, 10:36 PM
Just don't understand the area that it cracked. I'm debating doing nothing :what: Pics are here where I put others of cracked slides:

http://www.facebook.com/?ref=tn_tnmn#!/pages/EAA-Firearms/206257602745613
That doesn't look like a cracked slide. It looks like a cracked frame. Either is cause for shelving.

MachIVshooter
May 6, 2012, 12:54 AM
Being cast "stainless" welding can be problematic but not impossible for a qualified shop.

It's not stainless. Cast steel with hard chrome finish. It would TIG fine, but would have to be refinished.

That is a strange place for a crack; Not really much stress there. Could have been a casting flaw. It's probably harmless, but still worth a call to EAA.

re-ran a number after confirming destruction of the origina.....If this is still allowed - perhaps they'll do it for you.

It's perfectly legal. Whether or not they'll do it is another matter.

Mr.454
May 6, 2012, 03:43 AM
^+1 On the TIG weld or laser weld process. Call the manufacturer first if that does not pan out find a welder. Just about any decent TIG welder with a little buzz box could fix that for you.

intercooler
May 7, 2012, 05:10 PM
Sending it thursday

Walt Sherrill
May 8, 2012, 01:08 PM
It is a well known problem with 10mm Tanfoglio pistols because the factory recoil spring is too weak for the caliber.

This may sound abrasive, and it's not meant that way -- but how do you (or does anyone) know that the 10mm guns are under-sprung?

The guide rod causes the recoil spring to be pressed against the frame regardless of the force of the round, and that position on the frame is pretty stout. Much of the force of the round is transferred to the slide and stored in the spring, but some of it is handled by the hammer spring, as the slide goes back. Anything not stored in those springs goes into you -- as felt recoil. But even a heavier recoil spring uses YOU as the base (solid point) against which the spring is charged. It's not really all that hard on the gun. The gun doesn't really know the difference.

But, if you install a heavier recoil spring, the slide slams FORWARD after the shot with much greater force than it would do with weaker springs , and only the slide stop and frame deal with that extra. A heavier hammer spring added to the stock recoil spring might have the same effect (in changing the shooter's experience of FELT RECOIL) and not be as hard on the gun as the slide moves forward to finish the shooting cycle.

I've heard of folks firing guns with the recoil springs removed -- 1911Tuner who participates here willl do it with a .45 -- and the force is apparently not all that different than firing a sprung gun. That's because the recoil spring's main function isn't to CONTROL RECOIL but to store force that is used to CLOSE THE ACTION (while loading the next round).

Heavier recoil springs may be causing as many problems as they resolve -- unless spent brass can't be found.


.

ApacheCoTodd
May 8, 2012, 01:33 PM
Maybe regardless of hardware - some things just don't want to be 10mm.

ATLDave
May 8, 2012, 02:00 PM
Bummer. :uhoh: Please let us know how EAA responds when you call them!

meanmrmustard
May 8, 2012, 07:26 PM
Maybe regardless of hardware - some things just don't want to be 10mm.
It IS a formidable round, no doubt.

tarosean
May 8, 2012, 08:31 PM
I didn't even realize they had that option here. Next time but that is easier for me to do.


You posted in the middle of the day... Some of us are banned/proxied from fb and other sites while at work...

Sucks about the gun thou

wild cat mccane
May 8, 2012, 09:56 PM
Wait.

Aren't you the guy that has a 9 page post doing tests on the hottest loaded 10mm rounds offered by boutique companies?

:scrutiny:

Walt Sherrill
May 8, 2012, 11:20 PM
Aren't you the guy that has a 9 page post doing tests on the hottest loaded 10mm rounds offered by boutique companies?

Nope. Not me.

I briefly had a 10mm top-end for my Witness Long Slide in .45, but only put a box of 10mm through it. (It was the shorter slide, not a long slide, but it worked fine.)

Never really saw the attraction of the 10MM round, but got such a good price on the top end, that I couldn't resist. Later sold the 10mm top end for more than I paid, which was the reason I bought it in the first place -- figured I could make a profit.

I have had a BUNCH of Witnesses and CZs, over the years. And have had good service out of nearly all of them.

That Long Slide busted a it's very expensive Supersight (nothing I did -- it just went walkabout), and the barrel cracked (near the chamber), while shooting factory .45 ammo. Neither problem was covered under warranty, as it was a used gun that I had traded into it.

wild cat mccane
May 8, 2012, 11:23 PM
Not you sir. The original author of this thread has had a 9 page thread going on about how much he has been hammering his 10mm with boutique brand 10mm that are super fast.

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 12:38 AM
Wildcat,


No I don't own that thread (do your research first). I added into it and did some testing for those who wanted some answers through with my Match. Is DT and the like Bouitique? Heck I don't know... I consider them ones that try to load near what the 10mm was originally spec'd at. It appears you didn't read this one much either???? My crack is in an area where it shouldn't if I was shooting 155mm Howitzer rounds out of it. I'm perfectly fine with it the way it is in all honesty. I am the original purchaser where it was stated a lifetime warranty. No harm in sending it in to see. If they don't honor it so be it I will get it back and keep shooting. If they don't then it will tell all of us to just not waste your funds sending them one. In this event I may look into fixing it here through some different channels. More than one way to skin a Cat!

wild cat mccane
May 9, 2012, 02:31 AM
Are you for real? So you think you are know everywhere a slide will crack from over powered rounds?

Ha.

Please. You guys were promoting two companies that sold the hottest spec'ed 10mm ammo to the point that others (not myself) were calling you part of the companies. This thread was from 2 weeks ago. Now you aren't blaming over powered rounds for your slide being cracked?... Come on. The obvious answer is in a 9 page thread.

ApacheCoTodd
May 9, 2012, 02:37 AM
I thought the frame was cracked.

mattmann
May 9, 2012, 03:11 AM
I would send it back and get it fixed. Man that's a beautiful gun btw. Sorry about the crack.

Sent from my DROID RAZR

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 03:55 AM
<deleted> Obviously it is that or he can't read. He hasn't gotten one piece of info right here including where the crack is that pertains to this thread LOL :what:

For those who can't read (Wildcat) this isn't the slide. It is the grip area well below any point which should be stressed ;)

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 10:31 AM
Took the grip off for a couple. No meat there!

ApacheCoTodd
May 9, 2012, 11:37 AM
Four grinds, four beads, four grinds and a polish...... Just make sure the welder keeps the frame cool.

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 11:47 AM
So I checked my hunter. Cracked too same spot. This one is low round count 20lb Wolff spring and flat bottom.

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 12:27 PM
Henning's competition gun

wild cat mccane
May 9, 2012, 12:46 PM
I am sorry I said slide, not frame. Original poster posted through his facebook account????

<deleted>

Can hot ammo not crack a frame then?

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 01:16 PM
Henning had to take an international call. He seems to think it is a factory relief in all the guns. Hopefully he gets back to me later and I also have a call into EAA for their take. I hold little hope them returning a call though.

ATLDave
May 9, 2012, 04:46 PM
Hopefully he gets back to me later and I also have a call into EAA for their take. I hold little hope them returning a call though.

I got a return call 1-2 days later over my rear sight coming apart. I was none too confident until I got the return call, though!

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 06:51 PM
***This is what I pieced together on the cracking/cracks I have posted pictures of. Thanks Henning for your help!***

I actually did get a call from EAA about the issue and he said some models have a factory relief cut in and some don't in that area behind the mag release. Henning verified this and said Limiteds, Hunters and Competition guns have the relief factory cut. As for the Match he had a 2007 model unit there and it didn't have the cut on it. Neither did my 2010 model and that's where he said the factory should have just done them all like that. My Match crack as you can see, isn't a nice straight line like the Hunter... it cracked making it's own relief. EAA confirmed it shouldn't hurt a thing and Henning seconded the info. So I'm just going to continue having fun with the best guns I own.

7mmb
May 9, 2012, 07:14 PM
intercooler- Glad it's ok. I've got two Matches, a 9 and a 45. I don't want trouble down the road. I'm not shooting near the power you are out of mine though, nor the volume. BTW, I "liked" your FB page a while ago. I think I may have posted some pics of my guns on it too. Keep up the cool updates.

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 07:21 PM
This has been good info and learning experience for anyone with one. You will get the crack but don't worry is the bottom line. I looked both mine over real good today top to bottom and they look brand new in all other areas. Henning said this wasn't the first time someone asked about it but nobody had posted the info out there for others.

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 09:32 PM
Here is a brand new Limited on GunBroker I grabbed a photo of. Factory relief is there.

Also grabbed another Witness Match video with it showing as well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1MG9l4plhQ&feature=related

neviander
May 9, 2012, 10:38 PM
post #19, most I've learned about pistols in a long time. Thank you Walt Sherrill :)

greyling22
May 9, 2012, 11:00 PM
since when does hogue make grips for the elite match?!

intercooler
May 9, 2012, 11:15 PM
It's marketed as a CZ grip but it fits the Match with some pulling.


I have to say I love it! It makes it perfect to the hand.

greyling22
May 10, 2012, 02:09 AM
Huh. go figure. Good to know. Are they thinner than the stock Match grips? I bought some henning grips because I just thought the one that came with the gun were too think. (the hennings are awesome by the way)

MachIVshooter
May 10, 2012, 04:27 AM
My Limited has it, but it's no crack; It's a machine cut, about 0.020", perfectly straight and dead-even from one side to the other.

JERRY
May 10, 2012, 05:17 AM
Dt is hardly over powered loads. In fact they fall a bit short of original 10mm specs.

intercooler
May 10, 2012, 08:39 AM
Mach,

Good to know. This confirms everything we have found out. Shame they didn't machine the Match pistols with it from the factory but it's okay. I'm going today to test the 155's and glad I don't have to do anything with my Witness guns. They are the most accurate guns I own.

Walt Sherrill
May 10, 2012, 10:21 AM
Not you sir. The original author of this thread has had a 9 page thread going on about how much he has been hammering his 10mm with boutique brand 10mm that are super fast.

My error. I saw "Wait" and read it as "Walt". Guess I need different glasses.

ApacheCoTodd
May 10, 2012, 01:23 PM
Well now, if it is in fact a weak spot that is currently addressed with a stress cut by the factory - that's what I'd do too.
As little as it probably batters, I'd attend to those cracks to limit abrasion between the surfaces and have it look less like a mistake and more like a custom point.

Matching those angles on yours will get a bit tricky while still limiting the cut to a minimum but what the hey?

If you enjoyed reading about "Anything can be broken. I broke my 10mm Elite Match" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!