New to Rogers and Spencer w/question


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eddiegun
May 5, 2012, 05:42 PM
Hello,
Just purchased my first (used) Rogers and Spencer(target model) a couple days ago. Just got back from the range and I gotta say I wish I had bought one of these years ago. It shot well and I went thru 11 cylinders before fouling started to be noticeable and I had to clean it after 13 cylinders. I used 24gr 3f bp, 454 rb, felt wad, 10gr cow. This R&S is an Armi San Paolo with s/n of c19xxx - any idea of birth year? Seller on GA worded ad as "fired little" but after receiving it she didn't look like it had ever been fired. I did take a couple of pics at range and I will post them as soon as I can get a friend to post them for me...this old pc of mine wont allow me to post pics - cant even use emoticons ha!

Anyway the only issue I had at range with this fine R&S is the cyl removal screw on the left side kept loosening up. I first noticed it after about a dozen shots when I was seating a ball and the rammer tried to remove itself. I tightened the screw but it continued throughout the day. I just kept checking/tightening the screw. I have a feeling I'm at fault for not understanding this screw within a screw function. Is the side to side movement normal with this? Do I have to hold/push the right side screw while tightening the left screw? Is there any need for me to touch the right side screw? BTW I have no problem when backing the screw off 180* to remove cylinder(thanks to Phantom Captain). Sorry for this long winded post but I really enjoy this R&S and don't want this issue especially when I'm pretty sure its my fault. Any idea's?
Thank you,
Eddie

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sharps59
May 5, 2012, 08:09 PM
two screw drives tighten them down. I never take them out when I clean mine. I locktited them us a qtip to clean in the channel. are you shaving lead when seating the ball. if not go to a 457. thats what mine uses but all my chambers have been reamed to the same size. I am useing 15 grn 3ffg. for best groups in mine. my sons likes 18. filler no wads. beeswax olive oil for lube over ball. pam for lube on the cyl pin. works for me. oh yea turn the scw 1/2 turn to keep the rod in place. mine is free enough I can turn it w/ my fingernail if need be.

eddiegun
May 5, 2012, 09:34 PM
sharps59,
thanks for reply. I was probably unclear in my post, I have not tried to remove the screws. However they are loosening to the point that when I seat the ball, the rammer/cyl pin is pushing itself off the ball and coming out of its housing by a 1/2" or so. If I keep checking the screw tightness after every few shots then all is OK but I don't think this should required. Still a little miffed...

Regarding my loads, I do not get a lead ring when seating my 454. The chambers look to have beveling and the 454's have a firm feel to them. I am definitely going to be trying different loads. The volumes etc given previously are what I tried today but will be trying less powder as you and your son are.
I will enjoy trying to dial in this R&S. I own several other cap and ball revolvers but at the moment this Rogers and Spencer has my undivided attention and I don't expect that to change for awhile. Had a smile on my face for 3 hours today....great revolver. Now if I can get the screw issue taken care of....

Did you locktite your screws because yours had the same issue's as mine? If so, is this something all R&S owners have had to do?

Thanks again sharps59.

Eddie

mykeal
May 5, 2012, 11:46 PM
I do not have the 'loosening screw' issue with either of my two R&S revolvers (both are ASP also). The loctite sounds like a good idea, however.

Go the .457 ball; you should be shaving a ring. Neither of the chambers on my guns are beveled or chamfered.

As for age, look for a square with two capital letters inside on the right side of the frame. That box is the Italian proof date code; it identifies the year the gun was proof tested. The decoder ring is:
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o254/mykealsm/DateCodes.jpg

Captain*kirk
May 6, 2012, 01:06 AM
The screws are actually screwed into each other; there is a flat spot where when rotated, it allows you to remove the loading lever/cylinder pin WITHOUT removing the screws. Unless the two screws are backing off from each other, there is no problem.

eddiegun
May 6, 2012, 01:10 AM
Thank you mykeal for the date code info, mine shows [AS] so 1987 it is.

I'll try the 457 but the feel with the 454 is like my ROA with 457. I know your right that I should be getting a lead ring.

Eddie

eddiegun
May 6, 2012, 01:23 AM
Hi Captain*kirk,
I can only assume the screws have backed off from each other as there is side-to-side movement of the screws and the rammer/cyl pin has came out a 1/2" when seating a ball. Should I try holding right side screw with screwdriver while tightening up the left side? I would have thought the travel and tension on the screw would be like my Rugers when I secure and release at cyl removal. I'm hesitant to use locktite - but I did ask for some help.
Thank you,
Eddie

Edit - the side-to-side screw movement/looseness occurs after just 5-6 rounds have been fired. Snug her up then she does it again.

Captain*kirk
May 6, 2012, 01:49 AM
Eddie:
Yes; that's the procedure for tightening the screws. If they are tight already then you have nothing to worry about.
If the screw has rotated to the position where the flat on the shank is up against the pin, it will indeed start to pull out. You can check this by slowly rotating the screw while applying pressure to the loading lever/pin. When you hit the flat spot the pin will indeed start to back out; you'll know it.
As long as the two screw halves are not coming unscrewed from each other, you're good.

Edit- Just saw your comment. If they are unscrewing, apply a little Loc-Tite (blue) threadlocker to the threads and reinstall.

RaceM
May 6, 2012, 10:48 AM
Eddie- If your 454's ram tight, don't shoot loose, and are accurate, I wouldn't sweat it. I'm running 451's in my Remmie and don't get a lead ring when ramming either. It's dead nuts on for accuracy.

eddiegun
May 6, 2012, 12:08 PM
Hey RaceM,

I'll probably try the .457's since mykeal and sharps59 have my curiosity up.

Yesterday was the first time out with this recently purchased revolver. I had read where some owners were shooting .451's so I went to the range with .451's and .454's in hand. Started with .451 and they felt good going in except for one - I think one chamber is slightly larger and yes that one ball in suspect chamber did did start to loose its grip on the ball while shooting the other rounds. I re-seated it, fired it and tried another ball(.451) and same thing. Then went with the .454's and all was better as they went in tight(even the odd-ball chamber felt fine) and shooting off hand two hand hold at 25 yd's I was getting several 3 1/2 - 4" groups. Maybe not so great but I was happy. I did get several occasional flier's(bad chamber or shooting). I normally devote some time to a one-hand hold but yesterday I did not.

Now if I can remedy the cyl/rammer screw's........I'm taking sharps59 and Captain*kirk's advice and will locktite so we'll see how that work's next Saturday.

Thanks RaceM.

Eddie

Captain*kirk
May 6, 2012, 09:09 PM
Eddie;
I shot .454s in my ASP Stainless Remmy for years. They seated fine, and while not leaving much of a ring, they didn't take near the effort to seat.
Last summer I ran out of .454s while at the range. Lo & behold, I had a full box of .457s in my shooting box. I found that by using a loading stand, they seated as easy on the stand as the .454s did on the table top, shaved a nice, solid ring, and....surprise!!!! Grouped at least 100% tighter!
That's what I shoot now.

sharps59
May 6, 2012, 10:01 PM
yes mine kept comming loose almost lost them once so went w/ the loktite. I had to have my chamberes reamed and centered. one or 2 were actualy 2 small for the bore dia. also had my forcing cone angle changed and cyl gap changed. front sight has been dovtailed and a taller one installed and the rear sight channel modified. right now off the bench I get one ragged hole at 25 yrds. before the work 3" - 4" was the best it would due. one chamber will still throw a flyer.

RaceM
May 6, 2012, 10:26 PM
Wayull, as I unnerstand it chambers not being consistently sized due to "hand" manufacture was the reason behind ramming oversize bullets so they'd swage to fit. Hope the 457's do the job for ya. I'm kinda in the experimenting boat myself, can't wait to try the 451 conicals I cast up over the winter. If they suck, well, they'll go back in the melt.

mykeal
May 6, 2012, 10:48 PM
Ok, here's the deal. You need to slug the barrel and all 6 chambers to be sure, but it's likely the chambers are, or are at least close to 0.449". With a .454 ball the chamber will take only 0.0025 off the ball circumference. That gives a shaved area only 0.0672" across, pretty slim. With almost any amount of variance in the ball surface or the chamber wall there will be a void in the seal between the ball and the chamber wall, and a small void is all that's needed to start a chain fire.

With a .457 ball the shaved amount is 0.004" deep, for a chord of 0.0851", 25% more area. It should not be difficult to swage the larger ball assuming it's soft lead, so it's worth the effort to get the additional sealing area.

Captain*kirk
May 7, 2012, 12:07 AM
What he said.

faustopph
May 7, 2012, 12:13 PM
If You don't want to use Locktite . Try a drop of fingernail polish . The stuff is in my box of cleaning and smithing tools . I use just enough to cover the threads on any screw that shoots or works loose . Pick up some clear at the Dollar store and then you won't get in trouble with any of your female acquaintances for using theirs .

sharps59
May 7, 2012, 12:19 PM
regarding conicals you will find RB's are more Accurate for some reason, maybe that conicals can be cocked when seating them don't know. I like them due to the grease groves and do shoot them on occasion only because I have a mold for them.

eddiegun
May 7, 2012, 01:21 PM
faustopph,

Been awhile since I heard of the fingernail polish method. I locktited it yesterday since I had some blue on hand anyway, only bad thing now is I have to wait till Saturday to see if that does the trick. Pretty sure it will.

I really appreciate everyone's suggestions and input.

As promised, I've added a couple of pic's on the "Black Powder Revolver Picture Thread(of All Time) -
page 7, post 153

Eddie

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