223 too small primer pocket


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shoots45s
May 7, 2012, 07:57 PM
I'm loading 223 with CCI SR primers. I loaded 250 rounds yesterday and had some trouble with 43 cases where the primer would not seat in the pocket. They would not go into the pocket with even with considerable force. I destroyed two of them (they didn't go bang, just crushed them). The brass is mixed head stamp I picked up at a range and it's been processed (washed, cleaned, polished, mouth resized, trimmed to length, deburred and camphered). In addition, all were checked for military crimp and the few I found were reamed. When I process, I'm finding 10-20 cases per 200 or so cases that have military crimp, so the fact that I found 43 in 293 is too many.

Most of the brass that would not accept the primer had military crimps but the reamer tool and the pocket cleaner (Lyman) fit inside all of them. For now I set these casing aside and moved on to others. It just seems that the pocket hole is too small for the primer.

In addition, I found that once I attempt to seat a primer in a case with a small pocket, that primer would be difficult to seat in other cases, as if it were slightly flattened.

Is there some trick to getting the primers to seat? Is this a known issue with CCI primers? Should I seat the primers using a different tool? I'm using a Classic Lee turret.

Thanks in advance

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morrow
May 7, 2012, 08:02 PM
So even after you reamed them the primers still wouldn't go in? Did you ream 'enough'?

steve4102
May 7, 2012, 08:03 PM
Crimped Primer pocket. Very common in the 223/5.56. You have to remove the crimp before you can seat a new primer.

redneck2
May 7, 2012, 08:04 PM
CCI's have a harder cup and are sometimes harder to seat. I typically use Federal. They seat with no problem in the same cases that won't accept CCI's. As noted, the military crimp probably makes it worse.

Downside to Federal and the softer cup is that you can have a slamfire with AR's. I know because my friend's AR did it while we were sighting it in.

If you have an AR, don't hit the bolt release and let it drop on a round that's loose in the chamber. If it picks up a round out of the mag, there doesn't seem to be a problem.

HTH

xmanpike
May 7, 2012, 08:20 PM
It's from a military crimp. You need to shave it off

GLOOB
May 7, 2012, 08:24 PM
Easiest thing to try is to ream those pockets again. Keep going until the tool bottoms out. The nose of the reaming tool isnt wide enough to remove the crimp. It just guides the tool mainly, even though it has cutting teeth. It doesnt really "ream" the pocket out radially at all. It is kind of a misnomer. Gotta get the tool all the way in so the flared base of the reamer can cut the crimp out from top to bottom. You should be left with a 45 degree bevel that is at least as deep as the crimp goes. It's more of a selfcentering countersinking tool with a depth stop than a reaming tool.

If that doesnt work then lots of different things could be wrong. Tight pockets, bad batch of primers, or a bad reaming tool. That shouldn't be happening.

matrem
May 7, 2012, 08:33 PM
but the reamer tool and the pocket cleaner (Lyman) fit inside all of them
You used both, the Lyman reamer & uniformer?
Though there are more efficient methods, I've never had a problem with any crimped primer pocket after using both of those.

4895
May 7, 2012, 09:00 PM
Most cost effective tool I have found for that is the RCBS primer pocket swage tool. It fits 5.56 and 7.62 primer pockets and presses or "swages" the pocket uniform. Rather than trim too much brass or weaken the brass with a reamer that will go dull within a few hundered cases. Lyman primer pocket reamer was horrible (IMO) and I wasted a few bucks there.

If you have the extra cash, Dillon makes a bench mountable swage tool that is pretty trick. Costs around $100 IIRC vs. RCBS $25 tool.

dap22
May 7, 2012, 09:05 PM
I've been using a Weldon DB-18 countersink with a portable hand drill to rid the military crimp. Works like a charm. You can google it and I found mine on EBAY quite some time ago. Here's where you can go to see what it looks like:

After you do a couple cases you'll get a feel for how much to do. Works slick.

http://www.crlaurence.com/productimages/d/db18.gif

shoots45s
May 7, 2012, 09:12 PM
"So even after you reamed them the primers still wouldn't go in? Did you ream 'enough'?"

Yes both the Lyman reamer and pocket cleaner would go in the pocket.

What do you mean by ream 'enough'?

shoots45s
May 7, 2012, 09:13 PM
"Crimped Primer pocket. Very common in the 223/5.56. You have to remove the crimp before you can seat a new primer."

Did that. Apparently didn't remove enough...

shoots45s
May 7, 2012, 09:24 PM
"Most cost effective tool I have found for that is the RCBS primer pocket swage tool. It fits 5.56 and 7.62 primer pockets and presses or "swages" the pocket uniform. Rather than trim too much brass or weaken the brass with a reamer that will go dull within a few hundered cases. Lyman primer pocket reamer was horrible (IMO) and I wasted a few bucks there."

This seems to be the best solution. Does this work with the Lee shell holders? From the description on Amazon " fits 7/8" x 14 presses with RCBS-type removable shell holders. ".

4895
May 7, 2012, 09:33 PM
Yes, it works with what you have. Very self-explanatory.

kingmt
May 8, 2012, 07:33 AM
I like the CH4D one.

liberty -r- death
May 8, 2012, 07:46 AM
Crimped brass for sure. I had problems with my Lyman reamer not doing a good enough job on crimp brass.

I used to use a drill bit larger than the primer pocket run in reverse to smooth out the lip on military crimps. Easy for small amounts of brass. Doesn't take much pressure or effort to do it this way.

Now I have Dillon super swage 600. Much faster for large amounts of brass.

Jeff H
May 8, 2012, 07:51 AM
Despite cutting the crimp out, I seem to have a fair amount of issues seating primers in Federal nickle cases. Since brass is cheap and plentiful, I just toss those in the recycle bin and move on to the next. Life is too short to struggle seating primers. YMMV

aerod1
May 8, 2012, 09:15 AM
I use the Lee hand held "deburring / chamfering" tool to remove the crimp. They load just fine when I do that.

dickttx
May 8, 2012, 09:16 AM
The RCBS does a good job, but your press has to have a normal size ram (1"?). I had to modify mine to use on my C-H CHampion with the larger ram.
They also won't work on the Lee Classic Turret.
Aerod1 has the simplest and cheapest solution, unless you are doing hundreds of them. Just used it on some 9mm GI.

medalguy
May 8, 2012, 11:48 PM
Try reaming the primer pocket again, and do about 5-6 cases, then try seating a primer. If you still have problems, ream just a tad more. You'll figure out how much to remove.

I use the Dillon Super Swager, it's great. Every time I set it up for a different case, I swage about 20 cases and see if the primers fit easily. If not, I set the swager to do just a bit more, then repeat the 20 test cases. This way I'm certain all the cases will be sufficiently swaged before I do several thousand, then discover I have to do them again. All it takes is a bit of experience, like most other things. Hang in there.

MachIVshooter
May 9, 2012, 12:20 AM
I use the Lee hand held "deburring / chamfering" tool to remove the crimp. They load just fine when I do that.

Same here. I just stick the thing (mine is RCBS) in a cordless drill and go to town.

Clark
May 9, 2012, 12:32 AM
http://www.dillonprecision.com/uimages//Super_Swage_600_m.jpg

The Dillion Super swage 600 is ~ $100 and is a REALLY nice tool for fixing tight military primer pockets.

But for $100 you could throw away a lot of brass.

kingmt
May 9, 2012, 06:25 AM
I think the CH4D was $35 TYD for Lg & Smaller swage & ram prime set. There is no need for full stroke of the press. You just move the handle a small amount. You can fell it go past the cramp so adjustment is easy & no over doing it. Ram primeing is so much easier also.

Ken70
May 10, 2012, 01:06 AM
I found out that range pickup brass needs to be 100% reamed to remove the crimp. Most of us don't have the eyes to see if that primer is crimped or not. So just run all of them. You just frustrate yourself trying to be selective.


I've been using a cordless drill and a counter sink. I let the bit rotate twice and generate a couple of small chips. Then like someone else mentioned try priming 10 or 20 to make sure you're doing enough to remove the crimp.

Reaming gives a nice tapered entrance to the primer pocket, just knock the corner off the pocket. You don't need to do more than that.

StandingTall
May 10, 2012, 10:03 AM
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/large/319/319662.jpg

New RCBS Bench Mounted Primer Pocket Swager. $78.99 at Midway. Just bought it recently and have used it on over 500 rounds of LC .308 brass so far. Works like a charm and no issues seating primers.

GLOOB
May 10, 2012, 06:25 PM
Oh, wow. I scored a bunch of crimped brass the other day. After messing with a regular Wilson chamfer tool ("rocketship"/countersink), it's a huge win over a reaming tool in my book. I initially thought that since it didn't have a depth stop, it would be annoying knowing when to stop and that it wouldn't produce as uniform a result.

But it's really easy to get a uniform "ream", esp with a drill (simply chuck it right onto the neck guide on the outside chamfer side of the "rocket", with the 3 outside cutters spaced between the 3 jaws of the chuck). The bevel appears to be BETTER centered compared to the Hornady reaming tool I used before. It doesn't catch/enlarge/gouge the sides of the pocket like a reamer, which means it takes less effort to hold the case, especially on those cases with the staked crimp. (With the Horndady reamer chucked in a drill, I had to use high rpm and a tight grip to get the ream started, else it would catch and spin the case out of my hands). Best part is it leaves a tighter and ironically more uniform pocket, since the pocket below the crimp is already uniform (for a given headstamp, at least) and can't get jacked up or enlarged.

So I know a hundred people have posted about how fast and easy a countersink tool is compared to any other method. Thanks. But I wish I'd known it was BETTER than reaming. Now I feel like all my previously decrimped brass is inferior. :)

edfardos
May 10, 2012, 08:03 PM
I suffered through this issue too. I reamed the crap out of pockets, even used uncrimped brass, yet primers were flush with the head at best. It was the primers - they were too tall by .003". I bought a new lot of cci srp's and they measured shorter and fit fine.

edfardos

ol' scratch
May 11, 2012, 04:11 PM
I had the same problem. I'll bet that they were Federal cases. You have to ream them enough as mentioned in a previous post. If you have some trouble seating them, ream them more. I do think that it is an issue with the CCI primers as I didn't have a problem getting Remington primers to seat. I know that some reloaders use CCI when their brass primer pockets get worn as to get an extra load out of them. I will still use CCI, they just are slightly thicker it seems in the cup.

popper
May 11, 2012, 04:24 PM
Had that problem, just warmed up the cases and all is well. No they weren't crimped but were federal. A lot of Fed is crimped in many cals. now.

MachIVshooter
May 12, 2012, 07:58 PM
I will still use CCI, they just are slightly thicker it seems in the cup.

Thicker, and a little bigger OD than others (.2114, IIRC).

I use CCI primers almost exclusively.

On a lot of 7.62 military brass (esp. LC), I run a .208" drill bit into the pocket after decrimping the brass. Squashed primers are not good for reliability, and it REALLY sucks when one goes off in your face during seating.

BTW, for decrimping, pocket cleaning and mouth chamfering, if you do enough of it to justify or have other uses for a lathe, they work great. I just decrimped and cleaned primer pockets and chamfered case mouths on 1,500 7.62 cases last night in about 4 hours. With 3 stages for each case, that works out to just over 3 seconds per case. Chuck the reamer or cleaning brush in the lathe, turn it on at ~2,000 RPM, and go to down. Reaming takes about a half second per case, and having your weak hand free to feed cases to the strong hand that is doing the work speeds things up considerably.

icanthitabarn
May 12, 2012, 11:04 PM
I use the RCBS swage tool. Make sure to get the new model with the hardened .223 rod. The company also has the stripper piece to fit other presses, if you ask.

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