223 vs. 246 pound hog


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aerod1
May 8, 2012, 11:31 AM
Here are some pictures of the hog I shot at 8 pm on Friday April 13, 2012, while hunting with my AR-15 in south Texas.

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H&Hhunter
May 8, 2012, 11:37 AM
Nice hog! Did you head shoot her?

spclpatrolgroup
May 8, 2012, 11:45 AM
Good job, what bullet did you use, and where was it shot?

aerod1
May 8, 2012, 11:58 AM
I was hunting out of Falfurrius, Texas. I was using my AR-15 loaded with 55grain 223 JSP (like a Rem. CorLokt) over 23.0 grains of H-335. Nothing spectacular so far as the cartridge goes. It travels at about 2940 fps. It is a boar and I shot him at exactly 100 yards. I shot him in the head low and behind the ear. One shot and he was down. I really enjoyed that shot!!
Last year my 8 year old grandson shot his first deer, a doe, using the same cartridge in a NEF HandiRifle, with one shot to the heart.
I'll post some pictures of him in another thread. I am proud of that boy!
Some say a 223 is too small for deer, but if you wait for a good shot and don't rush, I think it is just fine.

brnmuenchow
May 8, 2012, 04:44 PM
Nice!

snakeman
May 8, 2012, 05:04 PM
And some say you have to have a 308 to take em' down. I've seen a few dropped to 17 hmr and 22lr. It's all about shot placement! That said, well put!

treg
May 8, 2012, 11:56 PM
Nice shootin Tex!

MCgunner
May 8, 2012, 11:58 PM
You weren't far from me. I'm in Corpus. Nice shootin'. :D

hogshead
May 9, 2012, 12:00 AM
Good hog.

allaroundhunter
May 9, 2012, 12:17 AM
Don't you know that .223 isn't fit for hunting? ;)

In all seriousness, I love my AR for hog hunting. Great shot, and great pig!

MachIVshooter
May 9, 2012, 12:21 AM
Nice pig! Mine have all been just a little more than half that weight. 130-160. I've used a .308 and a .350 Rem Mag; When you're having to drive 500 miles and spend so much on fuel and contributing to the lease, you don't screw around with smaller calibers.

aerod1
May 9, 2012, 12:24 AM
A 130 - 150 pound hog is some great eating!!

allaroundhunter
May 9, 2012, 12:30 AM
A 130 - 150 pound hog is some great eating!!

Agreed. Shoot the big ones for pictures and the small ones for grilling.

RedHeadHunter
May 9, 2012, 01:02 AM
Nice Hog! Nice shot!

I too like to use small rounds for the added challenge of shot placement. I recently took down a 250+ lb (scale maxed out) hog with a 30 carbine and dropped it where it stood. My buddy shot the same size hog at the same distance through the chest with a 500 S&W Mag and the spewed a geyser of blood for a minute then got up and walked away. We recovered it later.

Small calibers are great if you are experienced and are confident in your shot. If someone asks me if they can use an AR in 223 for deer or hog, I usually tell them to go with something bigger. If they are not already experienced enough to know what a 223 can and can't do, it is best if they gain the experience and confidence over time before advancing to a small caliber.

Congrats on your grandson's kill. My son is 6 and is very small for his age. The Davie Cricket and Red Rider are still way too big for him. But we are practicing. I hope he will have a story like your grandsons soon.

aerod1
May 9, 2012, 10:10 AM
Red Head,

Your grandson can have a story like that someday. All he needs is for you to be his mentor and see that he has plenty of range time. Last year during the summer break, I took my grandson to the shooting range every week. I knew he was ready. I am no professional, so I am sure you and your grandson can do the same. Enjoy the days of his training, because he will remember them forever!!:)

Jim

aerod1
May 9, 2012, 10:24 AM
Here are the pictures of my 8 year old grandson and his first deer. He was a happy boy but his grandad was elated!! He had his traditional deer blood face paint initiation for shooting his first deer. Look at that big grin! I love that boy!
The deer was taken with reloads that he helped load! Yep, he is learning to reload ammo as well.
This kid loves anything associated with outdoor activity! We are starting his little sister out on a BB gun this year. She is 5 years old which is the same age I started her brother.

chas08
May 9, 2012, 10:46 AM
You place a shot like that with just about anything and it's D.R.T. Nice shot and Nice Hog!

CoRoMo
May 9, 2012, 11:18 AM
...the hog I shot at 8 pm on Friday April 13...
Unlucky day.


For the hog.

Great hunt! And I love that old school AR!

Sky
May 9, 2012, 11:42 AM
That would be a rather large hog around here. 100 yards and DRT is well done. Salute! Sometimes it seems like caliber wars are like many things in life; I hit a 7 wood for 210 yards and you hit a 7 iron...so what, they both get the job done if the green is hit.. IMO there are not to many things I am liable to come across that the AR-15 can't handle with the various hunting ammo's I use; option #2 is run away or pass on the shot!!
Again great shot; 100 yards is nothing to sneeze at considering POA.

Sky
May 9, 2012, 12:20 PM
IMO there are not to many things I am liable to come across that the AR-15 can't handle with the various hunting ammo's I use; option #2 is run away or pass on the shot!!

Key word is "around here"! If I lived in Moose country along with all the other large critters then I would be singing a different tune; no doubt.

LeonCarr
May 9, 2012, 01:39 PM
Nice hog...1 down, 2,000,000 to go :).

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

MCgunner
May 9, 2012, 01:50 PM
Hmm, figured this might turn into a caliber war. :rolleyes: My wife's uncle shoots 'em with his only rifle, a .22LR Savage autoloader, old one. They die with a head shot. If they get away with a bullet in 'em, they'll probably die eventually, all he cares about. He don't eat 'em, just shoots 'em to keep 'em from rooting up his yard. They live on a farm outside of Seguin, Texas, lots of hogs. I need to get that pic of her aunt with her foot on a 250 lb hog he shot. She's holding a Daisy Red Rider, 86 year old woman. Pretty funny. :D I could post it on threads like this and claim all you need is .177 Daisy. :D

aerod1
May 9, 2012, 06:48 PM
MC, that would be a funny picture!!
Well I am glad this didn't develope into a caliber war. I really just wanted to brag a little and also brag on my grandson. After all, I am from Texas! :D

MCgunner
May 9, 2012, 06:58 PM
Everything a Texan says is the honest to God's truth, count on that, would I lie? :D

Hope that hogs tastes decent He's about at the top of where I wanna go with an eaten pig. I'd soak the heck out of him on ice water for a few days before butchering. Makes some fine sausage and BBQ. :D

You're grandson has me beat by 3 years, shot my first at age 11. Sounds like he's got the feel of the sear already. :D

aerod1
May 10, 2012, 09:54 AM
My grandson has never been hurt by recoil. I am taking him up very slowly. As you know a 223 is low recoiling. As a result of this, he has no "flinch" nor a tendency to jerk the trigger. His trigger control is awesome!!
For a child's first shooting experiences, I wonder about "adults" who knowingly put a high recoiling gun in the hands of a child realizing it is going to hurt. :confused: Shooting is to be enjoyed. :D

Big Bad Bob
May 10, 2012, 10:40 AM
Nice shot, and nice pig. All dead pigs are good pigs.

"Karamojo" W.D.M Bell killed most of his elephants around the turn of the century with a Lee-Enfield Sporter in .303 enfield with shots behind the ear. Its all about shot placement.

H&Hhunter
May 10, 2012, 11:53 AM
"Karamojo" W.D.M Bell killed most of his elephants around the turn of the century with a Lee-Enfield Sporter in .303 enfield with shots behind the ear. Its all about shot placement.

Point of correction here. Bell killed a huge majority of his elephants with a 7x57 Mauser AKA a .275 Rigby he also used a .256 which is actually a 6.5MM. He did not however shoot them behind the ear. He brain shot them which from the side is in front of the ear. From the front it is level with the cheek bones and depending on the angle of the head either above or below the eyes. He was also the first elephant hunter to describe the "rear" brain shot which the bullet enters the neck muscle behind the ear hole and travels forward into the brain. Which might be what you are referring to with your "behind the ear" statement. Bell used a .303 at one point and he also used a .400 NE for following up in thick cover. But he is most famous for his use of the .275.

If you shoot an elephant behind the ear unless you happen to get spine there is a whole lot of nothing there except muscle. It's a doubtful shot with a big bore and an insane chance with a small bore rifle. On a big bull there is 3+ feet of muscle to penetrate before you get to the spine.

TNboy
May 10, 2012, 01:33 PM
H&H I had always wondered what the meaning of your signature line was, now I know!

MCgunner
May 10, 2012, 09:33 PM
My grandson has never been hurt by recoil. I am taking him up very slowly. As you know a 223 is low recoiling. As a result of this, he has no "flinch" nor a tendency to jerk the trigger. His trigger control is awesome!!
For a child's first shooting experiences, I wonder about "adults" who knowingly put a high recoiling gun in the hands of a child realizing it is going to hurt. Shooting is to be enjoyed.

I can only go on MY experience as a kid. I had a daughter that loved fishing, but didn't really like getting up on a cold morning, LOL. She shoots a .22 fine, though, and I got her into the 12 gauge on clays (a gas auto, mild) when she was in high school.

As a kid, I started at age 6 with a Daisy and I didn't shoot my eye out. I got tutored by my grandpa and uncle. Uncle was an active NRA certified instructor teaching the boy scouts, so I had good instruction. :D I got a Benjamin air rifle, .22 caliber, at age 7 and started stalking the woods around the house. First squirrel and rabbit were with the air rifle. I got a .410 at age 7, also, and it kicked the HELL outta me. I squatted down to shoot, was WAY too long for me, kicked me off my feet on to my butt. Worst part about it was the ol' man laughin'. I was afraid of that thing at age 9 and my grandpa started me dove hunting with 2 1/2". At age 10, I found it didn't kick with 3", who knew? ROFL. I shot my first doves at age 10 shooting that .410. I got a .22 at age 9, still have it, old Remington bolt M512, still very accurate. I was the terror of the squirrel woods, was head shooting squirrel at 50 yards with that thing by age 11.

My grandpa gave me HIS gun to hunt that year, 1963, outside Leaky, Texas. His gun was a .257 Roberts hand loaded with a 117 Sierra. Grandpa sat me down, told me not to shoot does that come along 'cause there'll probably be a buck along after her. Said he'd tell me why in a few years. So, I sat there as he walked up the hill with my uncle's .30-06 Winchester M70 determined to let the does go. About 45 minutes later, here comes a doe just a runnin' down in a ravine, and to my surprise, behind her was a nice 8 point haulin' the mail behind her down in a ravine about 75 yards off. I couldn't get a clear shot on that buck, then saw another coming behind and a little farther up in the ravine. I swung on it resting that rifle on a log that had been felled for the purpose. Got a good bead on the middle of the half of his shoulder I could see out of the ravine and fired. That gun kicked me back such that I couldn't see what happened and when I looked back, all I saw was a buck running off, thought I'd missed, it being a TOUGH shot, dead run and half hidden by the ravine. I was sick because I was a good shot, knew I was on that deer when the sear broke, but chalked it up to a hard shot.

Grandpa comes walking back down the hill 30 minutes or so later and says, "Heard ya shoot, you get anything, boy?" "Naw sir, I missed." I told him about the shot. He says, "Did ya go check?" Naw, I saw him runnin' off." "Always go check after the shot, you never know.", and he walks down to the ravine and looks down and says, "Well, if ya missed him, who shot THIS one?" ROFL I about peed my drawers, ran down there fast enough to qualify for the 50 yard dash in th e'64 Olympics.

We got back to camp, my grandpa bragged on me the rest of the week, made up for the laughing at my ineptitude with the .410 4 years previous. LOL! But, I had matured as a rifleman to that point to be able to use that .257, which is no hammer of Thor on the receiving end, but kicks a might harder than a .223, especially the way my grandpa loaded it. LOL 45.5 grains IMR 4350 behind that 117 grainer. A might hot. I've found better powder and bullet for that gun now days, but it will still hold 1/2 MOA. It's my prized rifle, not for it's caliber, but for other reasons. I've refinished the old stock, had a smith take the sight off the front and reblue it. It's still a shooter, though I've not taken it in a while. When I do go hunting with that rifle, I have the distinct feeling that my grandpa is looking over my shoulder from heaven and tellin' me, "Let the doe run, boy." "I'll tell ya why when ya get up here." I just HOPE I have a grandson to give it to before I check out. I have a 7 year old grand daughter at the moment and she's not real interested in hunting, either, though my SIL is a hunter. He should be home from Afghanistan in a couple of months.

NObody back then let kids use a .22 center fire for deer, was unheard of. That's what the .243 was for and the .257 before that. But, .22 bullets have gotten a lot better since the early 60s. The .22-250 is a popular Texas deer rifle with kids and the recoil shy. They can do much more than they once could do. Now, I ain't in to ARs, just not the kind of rifle I'm wanting. I prefer my bolt guns and my black powder, though I have a couple of SKSs, even took a deer with one. But, they probably do, even though they're light, reduce what recoil the .223 has. With a pull adjustable stock, they can be fitted for the little toots, too. :D You're grandson done good with yours. Perhaps I'll have a reason to buy one in a few years, eh? :D

Big Bad Bob
May 10, 2012, 09:52 PM
I knew H&HHunter would correct me if I was wrong and I defer to your knowledge and experience. You are correct, that is what I was referring to with "behind the ear"

I knew he used 7x57 extensively as well, I became fascinated by Karamojo Bell after a Craig Boddington article referencing him and the debate over .223, then did reading on him and his extremely fascinating life.

mattmann
May 10, 2012, 11:22 PM
Here are the pictures of my 8 year old grandson and his first deer. He was a happy boy but his grandad was elated!! He had his traditional deer blood face paint initiation for shooting his first deer. Look at that big grin! I love that boy!
The deer was taken with reloads that he helped load! Yep, he is learning to reload ammo as well.
This kid loves anything associated with outdoor activity! We are starting his little sister out on a BB gun this year. She is 5 years old which is the same age I started her brother.

Man it is great to see little ones getting involved in hunting. My son is only 2 and I'm only 25 but it almost makes me tear up thinking of my granddad taking me and showing me the ropes god bless his soul. This is what's wrong with kids today they don't get taken in the woods enough. Idle time is the devils playground I always heard and i believe it. I can't wait till i can show my son the joy of harvesting his own meat if the good lord allows. Great pig by the way. We have plenty here in Arkansas also!

Sent from my DROID RAZR

aerod1
May 11, 2012, 10:38 AM
MC, That 257 Roberts is a mighty fine deer caliber! Some in these parts think it is the best over all for deer.

mattman, You can pass on those same great memories to your son that your grandpa passed on to you!

My son-in-law never got to hunt when he was a kid. This year I got him on our deer lease so he will be able to bag his first deer. His son, my grandson, who is now nine has already bagged his first. My son-in-law jokes with him and tells him he will need to show him how it's done.
My Dad was handicapped so I never got to hunt or shoot as a kid. I guess that is one reason I put so much effort in teaching my grandkids.
Good hunting and great stories!!:D

j1
May 11, 2012, 10:56 AM
I live in Pa and know nothing about shooting or eating hogs. Are the big ones good to eat too? I would just have it butchered professionally with all of the normal pieces smoked? I just love bacon and smoked ham.

aerod1
May 11, 2012, 03:58 PM
I took mine to a place called Kuby's Sausage House. They do really nice work. I had most of mine made into summer sausage and breakfast sausage but I did get the backstrap cut into boneless chops, the tenderloins whole and the short ribs. The 100 pounders are supposed to be better if you are not having sausage made.

content
May 11, 2012, 04:55 PM
Hello friends and neighbors // Outstanding in every way, especially your Grandson joining in.

I like the rifle, hog and am jealous of the slaughtering area, well thought out.

der Teufel
May 12, 2012, 07:01 PM
I live in Pa and know nothing about shooting or eating hogs. Are the big ones good to eat too? I would just have it butchered professionally with all of the normal pieces smoked? I just love bacon and smoked ham.

You'll get differing opinions on this. I shot one that was ~220 Lbs. and while it tasted fine to me, it was a bit tough. My buddies have made vague suggestions that the cook might have been at fault. I ended up running most of it through a meat grinder. We made hamburgers, spaghetti sauce, meat loaf, chili, etc. out of it. When I said something to my wife about going after smaller hogs in the future, she said to shoot another big one. She didn't mind having it as ground meat - it's leaner than most of the ground beef we find in the grocery stores.

A buddy of mine shot one earlier this year that was about the same size. He took it to a processor to have it cut up. He's eaten his way through most of it and his wife is after him to get another - so I guess they like it!

Making bacon or ham generally requires smoking (I know very little about that) so from what I understand it's more complicated than just cutting up a hog or making sausage. Generally bacon comes from the meat around the belly and it's not as 'ample' (thick) on wild hogs compared to those commercially raised.

TexasPatriot.308
May 12, 2012, 08:34 PM
I shoot pigs almost everyday in my cow pastures with anything from a .17hmr to a .308. you would be surprised at the internal damage a .17hmr does to a hogs innards. I got too many hogs and I dont eat those flea/tick infested things. let the coyotes and buzzards eat. .22-250s are really good for long range head shots too.

aerod1
May 13, 2012, 11:43 PM
Buzzards need to eat also. It's all part of the eco system.

Cob
May 14, 2012, 01:04 AM
I live in Pa and know nothing about shooting or eating hogs

Just google recipes for PORK:D
people been eatin pig for centuries, unless religious view prevent it.

armoredman
May 14, 2012, 02:23 AM
Interesting, I was loading 55 gr FMJ with 22.5 grains of H-335 and told that was far too light! You nailed that beast with only a half grain more - what barrel length?With 22.5 I am only getting 2427 FPS, but I have a 16 inch barrel.
Very nice shooting sir, hope that hog served up some good chow.
Be nice to have a bi monthly feral hog shoot in places like that, then donate the dressed meat proceeds to the food banks. Just a random thought - we don't have feral hogs out here.

Twmaster
May 14, 2012, 05:50 AM
I never got to hunt when I was a boy. The adults leave to go deer hunting Thanksgiving night. Now that I'm in my 40's I feel like I got left out.

I need to fix that.

Way to go taking your grandson out to hunt. Good job. Both on that hog and the boy.

chas08
May 14, 2012, 03:46 PM
I was loading 55 gr FMJ with 22.5 grains of H-335 and told that was far too light! I've killed far more with 55gr FMJ's than soft points with my AR. They work fine when placed well.

armoredman
May 14, 2012, 06:27 PM
FMJ is not allowable for hunting in many states, I believe, this one included. :) I was referencing the actual powder charge weight, not bullet type - experimenting with Hornady 60 grain soft points and 65 grain Sierra GameKings myself, but this is his hog killing thread.

dprice3844444
May 14, 2012, 06:45 PM
"Karamojo" W.D.M Bell killed most of his elephants around the turn of the century with a Lee-Enfield Sporter in .303 enfield with shots behind the ear. Its all about shot placement.

Big game hunter

After the war ended in 1902, Bell remained in Africa and became a professional elephant hunter. Over sixteen years spent in Africa, he hunted in Uganda, the Sudan, Ethiopia, Central Africa and West Africa.

He became known as “Karamojo” Bell (Sometimes spelt Karamoja) because of his safaris through this remote wilderness area in North Eastern Uganda.[10]

Bell shot over 1,500 elephants during his career[11]. He was noted for using high speed, smaller calibre bullets[12][13] rather than the slow speed, larger calibre bullets that were popular with other big game hunters.[14] The bulk of his kills were made with Rigby rifles manufactured on the Mauser action in .275 Rigby(Also know as the 7x57mm Mauser, as the .275 was a "Rigby trademark") calibre. 300 were killed with Mannlicher-Schoenauer 6.5x54mm[6] carbines, and 200 with a .303 British.[15] He insisted on using military Full Metal Jacket bullets weighing from approx 170 to 200 grains, rather than the 400+ grain bullets popular at the time[8] Bell refused to use soft point bullets under any circumstances.[16] The reason for his use of only Full Metal Jacket projectiles, is that on large animals like Elephant and African buffalo a soft point hunting bullet does not have the penetration to reach the vital organs or brain. Bell was know for using the "Brain Shot" to quickly put the animal down so as to limit the suffering and the danger to himself and his African Porters

Twmaster
May 14, 2012, 08:31 PM
FMJ is not allowable for hunting in many states, I believe, this one included. I was referencing the actual powder charge weight, not bullet type - experimenting with Hornady 60 grain soft points and 65 grain Sierra GameKings myself, but this is his hog killing thread.

Many states do not consider feral hogs a game animal. For example Oklahoma considers them pests and have very few restrictions on how you exterminate them.

alsaqr
May 15, 2012, 12:06 AM
I've killed far more with 55gr FMJ's than soft points with my AR. They work fine when placed well.

i've killed a lot of wild hogs using .223/5.56mm rifles. My favorite hog rifle is a CZ 527 in .223 and my favorite round is US military M193 ball. Some of the hogs i killed using M193 ball ammo weighed well over 300 pounds. My hog shots are picked carefully and over 90 percent of them are bang flops. i put the bullet in the ear or low behind the crook in the front leg.

At ranges to about 175 yards when fired from a 20" or longer barrel; the bullet penetrates 5-6", yaws 90 degrees and fragments.

See the 5.56mm ball round:

http://aux.ciar.org/ttk/mbt/papers/misc/paper.x.small-arms.wounding-ballistics.patterns_of_military_rifle_bullets.fackler.unk.html


For example Oklahoma considers them pests and have very few restrictions on how you exterminate them.

Exactly. i often hog hunt on federal property where we are restricted to shotguns and small shot or rimfire rifles outside of deer season. i've killed a few dozen hogs there using a .22 magnum: My shots with the .22 magnum are limited to 50 yards or less. Put the bullet in their ear and they flop over dead.

Gordon
May 15, 2012, 12:31 AM
You Texas boys are a crack up to me ! I know you are ranch boyz fer sho ! Really makes me wanna pop one of those nasty flea bags with my .17 Hornet or the .17 HMR Ruger Hunter.

der Teufel
May 15, 2012, 10:37 PM
At ranges to about 175 yards when fired from a 20" or longer barrel; the bullet penetrates 5-6", yaws 90 degrees and fragments.


I think that study mentions experiences in Vietnam. Back then AR-15 rounds were only marginally stabilized. Since that time the twist rate of AR-15s has been significantly increased, and I don't know that the bullets exhibit the same tendency for yawing as they previously did.

alsaqr
May 15, 2012, 11:43 PM
I think that study mentions experiences in Vietnam. Back then AR-15 rounds were only marginally stabilized. Since that time the twist rate of AR-15s has been significantly increased, and I don't know that the bullets exhibit the same tendency for yawing as they previously did.

The bullets do the same thing they did in RVN whether they are fired from a barrel with a 1:7 twist or a 1;12 twist. i've killed dozens and dozens of wild hogs using the 5.56mm M193 round. Every hog is field dressed for donation to needy folks. When the impact velocity is over about 2,600 fps the bullet penetrates 5-6", yaws 90 degrees and fragments.

The bullet will punch a small hole in the rib of a big hog, penetrate 5-6 inches and fragment. Some of my hogs were hit behind the diaphraghm but quickly died when fragments of the bullet shredded the diaphragm, lungs and/or heart. Sometimes on smaller hogs there are multiple exit holes. Past ranges of 125-175 yards, depending on the rifle barrel length, the magic is gone.

BTW: The 62 grain bullet in the M855 round does esentially the same thing.

eastwood44mag
May 16, 2012, 12:52 AM
Seems like a big hog for 246, but what do I know. I would have guessed 300+.

MCgunner
May 17, 2012, 05:11 PM
If he was much heavier, I'd leave him for the buzzards. :D I like 'em under 200 lbs for eating. I think my trap, which I bought at a feed store, is sized to mostly keep the larger hogs out. Much over 200 and they have to duck to go in. :D

I6turbo
May 22, 2012, 11:09 AM
aerod1,
That's a great story and it's good to hear of another kid who loves guns. My 7-year-old has been an absolute fanatic about WWII since he was about 4 years old when my wife/his mom secured me a 1-hour ride on a B24-J. From that introduction he went on to learn an unbelievable amount about the Pacific and European wars, especially the equipment and battle tactics. It sounds crazy, but he's literally knows more about it -- especially the equipment -- than 99.8% of adults these days. Now he's into firearms and we just bought him his first .22 rifle (CZ 452 FS) and he's starting to shoot whenever we go home to rural TN for vacation at the family farms. We spent a few days there recently and he fired about 950 rounds through his CZ and my old 1966 model 10/22. He shot one of my brother's AK's a little bit, but isn't ready for more recoil yet -- I'm hoping to buy us a CZ 527 in .223 for his (and his younger brother's) first quality/accurate centerfire. He's hooked, and now he's spending some of the money he's earned doing yard-work to buy a mil-surp Mosin 91/30 because of the history and connection to WWII. Anyway, it was great to read of your interest in your grandson!

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