Defensive shotgun - standard tube vs. extended tube

I have a Remington 870 Express with a standard tube (4+1 capacity) and an 18" bead sighted barrel. I am debating whether to put a Scattergun Technologies +2 round extension on it. I would need to drill out the dimples.

The case for getting the +2 extension are obvious. You get 2 more rounds.

The case for sticking with the standard tube are that the gun will be lighter on the front end and faster handling. You could also say it might be slightly more durable with the standard mag, nothing to come lose. I think this is only a very, very slight factor.

Which would you go with and why? Are two extra rounds worth a slower handling gun?

You can get a barrel clamp to help with the durability issue, and if you plan on mounting a flashlight up front a barrel clamp is pretty much the easiest way to go (many of which require you to have the extended tube). Personally, I'd rather have the extra 2 rounds. The weight difference is not that noticable.

I do not think you would need more then 4-5 shots for home defense.

First and foremost...do you NEED those extra shots? Who's to say? Arguments can be made both ways.

But you will never, ever say "man I wish I didn't have this many rounds in the tube...look at all the extra I had" (Unless you are bird hunting...)

the gun will be lighter on the front end

+2 or +3 doesn't affect the weight of my shotguns very much, at all. We're not talking much weight...and at my age/fitness level I should man up and workout more instead of worrying about it. :) Your mileage and fitness level may vary.

and faster handling.

Negative, ghostrider. I still handle mine just as quickly. For some reason, an 18" 870 with the Remington +2 extension is a hoot to shoot. New shooters seem to love it even though it isn't one of my softer shooting 12 gauges. It just feels right. :)

You could also say it might be slightly more durable with the standard mag, nothing to come lose.

In over a decade and 1/2 of use (some may even call it abuse), nothing has came loose unless I loosened it. The last 1/2" of finish is gone because it sticks out past the 18" barrel, but wear marks like that add character. :)

2 replies come to mind:

1) If you need 2 more rounds, you really need a carbine.
2) I have 8 more rounds-3 in my elastic but cuff and 5 in my revolver. But if I step out the door of the house, my carbine goes with me.

1) If you need 2 more rounds, you really need a carbine.

Totally false. If all of your training and practice has been with a shotgun, it would be kind of silly to use a carbine.

A REAL MAN needs only one shot. Who could possibly need any more than that? ;)


http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/659ec88c.jpg

Is that nickle and wood or something else?

It's mossberg's "Marinecote". Yes, wood. Used to look like this:
http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/7eb12c77.jpg

Gotcha. I've got the Remmington version. It's seen quite a bit of use and lost the finish on the top of the button (sticks out 1/2" past the barrel), too. Hard to tell in the pic, but the plastic is even pretty well worn.

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p188/johnnnyhgmail/marinemagnum.jpg

IMO .. better to have more than enough than too few. What about more than one BG? Why not add an extender if you can?

Practice loading the gun as you shoot it. Example: shoot two, load two, repeat, etc.

Whether you go with a longer tube or not, being efficient at feeding more shells into your gun is something that money won't buy.

After briefly playing with +2 and +3 extensions (loaded and empty), I removed them.

I was shooting defensive shotgun matches that limited the intial loading to 5 shells, so I stayed with that. The matches also gave me more incentive and ooportunity to practice reloading which I became better at.

So, if you can reload, capacity becomes less of a concern. If you can't reload, maybe you need 2 or 3 shotguns... just sayin'.

Just because the matches limit you to 5 shells doesn't mean that is a limit you should necessarily apply in a real situation. Soldiers test with 20-round magazines and go to war with 30.

I like eight rounds in my shotgun, 20 rounds in my rifle and 14 rounds in my 1911, but that's just me.

Well just because soldiers test with 20-round magazines and go to war with 30 doesn't mean... Uhm, what was the question? ;)

I tied the extended mag and didn't like them. The poor pointing and handling far outweighed 2 more rounds.

I actually have come to prefer an AR carbine. Much lighter, shorter, 1/4 the recoil, 6X the ammo capcity, less concern with over penetration and more effective on the target.

Louis Awerbuck says of shotguns, "No magazine is ever big enough." Clint Smith reminds us that even extended magazines eventually run out, so "we gotta practice loadin' 'em." You can see Clint at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw, but Louis has been kinda camera shy for a decade or so.

Anyway, it's a personal choice. Best bet, try it both ways and see what you like. But either borrow a gun with an extension, or borrow the extension to experiment with and don't drill out the dimples till you know what you want to do.

I prefer without but there are 870s in the safe with +2 and +3 extensions on them.

I prefer the AR15 too. Unfortunately, I live in occupied Southern California. My AR15s have bullet buttons.

If the end of the world comes, I will convert my AR15s to their natural state. In the mean time, the 870s are my defensive long arms.

I am leaning towards just leaving it as a 4+1 weapon and having a quality ammo belt very close by I can grab with the gun.

I like the +2... It's not a deal breaker.

And I'll second Clint Smith on everything he says when it comes to shotguns (and most anything, for that matter... the man just understands the difference between practical and tactical).

All of mine are 4+1 due to reliability issues with both factory and aftermarket magazine extensions. The shells would hang up at the junction where the two tubes meet. No thank you.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

clint smith pretty much said it all. though id ditch the single shot piece unless its all i had, id even ditch the double barrel for the novice unless its all they had.

shotguns are not as easy to hit with as some think, particularly at close range where you dont get the benefit of shot spread. they must still be aimed.

I ordered my shotgun with extended magazine affixed before seeing it. The only extension available was 5 round, a Nordic unit. Well, when it arrived, I was a bit stunned with this big blunt bayonet hanging out in front.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/712/712withbarrelclamp.jpg

It handles well enough that a petite young lady was able to burn through a magazine in nothing flat.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b13/armoredman/range%20trip/AZFF%20range%20trip/AZFFshoot9.jpg

I haven't had a shotgun in years, was thinking the nice 712 Utility would be short enough to use in the house - my vz-58 is far shorter. :) Still a great shooter, and everyone who picks it up want s to shoot...then asks to shoot it again. If I can get the Nordic two round extension sometime, the only other size they make for this gun, maybe I'll swap it out.

Just fyi.. changes the balance point big time, and not in a small way. What EVER you do, practice with it.

My two shot extension adds 7 oz, with two buck loads it's 3/4 lb added right at the muzzle. The three shot extension here weighs 10 oz, add 3 loads means a lb out there.

OTOH, an 870 here sans extensions is snake fast with its' 21" barrel.

Even faster is the little 20 gauge.

More stuff=slow.

I have a 2-shot extension because 7+1 is better than 5+1 for last resort defense. In the event that I need to use the gun, the extra weight is only there for a couple seconds, tops, and may even aid in swinging onto target.

All of mine have standard magazines. I do keep 3 of them loaded though.

Have an 18" 870 w/ factory +2 ext. That's the way I bought it and the way it came from the factory. Really don't know what all the buzz is about concerning the ext. mag. In a sense it is my "coach gun" in that it goes with me on road trips and leans in the corner of the closet in the bedroom. Are the extra rounds necessary? Probably not, but like someone here said, they're there if you do! If I grab it and go, I have 12 rounds at hand [5 in butt band] without having to grab an ammo belt. At some point, the extra weight starts to become a liability, but my set-up works for me.

PS: if nose weight is a problem for you, don't load the +2 but you retain the option to slip in the extra shells if you find a need. For Zombie hunters, there is never going to be enough loaded ammo. For the 'it will never happen to me" bird hunters, 2 or 3 total is enough. Either way, have fun and shoot often.

That's right, you don't have to load them all the way. I have a +3 extension on an 870, but only load 5 rounds of buckshot. There are 5 rounds of slugs in a butt cuff and I can load two of them without doing anything else.

That is an interesting idea, hog.

I like the Wilson one shot extension.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/Extension-Tube-Quick-Detach-Stud-1-Shot-12-Gauge/productinfo/SGET-QDS-U-1/

Extra round, low profile, minimal weight, and allows sling use when appropriate.

YMMV

Here is a variation on the same question for the people who voted to have the +2 extension.

Let's assume the defensive scenario for the shotgun will give you enough time to clip a shell belt to your waist containing 21 rounds of 00 buck ...

... Do you still feel the +2 extension is important? Even with rounds on your waist, are you concerned about only 5 rounds (4+1) in the gun?

I don't have any 'extended magazine' shotguns, but I have tried a couple of Shooting Budds 870's with extenders. When full, it seemed to alter the balance too far forward for me.

Your Mileage Will Vary

Just fyi.. What EVER you do, practice with it.

Wise words for any application!

And... I like my 2+ extension on my 870.

I think I own enough of both factory-standard 4 or 5 mag and factory-solid-tube 7 or 8 mag to opine:

A six-round elastic butt-cuff on a 18-20"bbl pump with a 5rd mag satisfies me the most, ergonomically speaking.

I don't do many aftermarket-add-ons, and tube extenders is one I don't really care to experiment with. Call it irrational skepticism if you will...

I don't think it would be a problem. It's a home defense weapon so you would be carrying it for a short time and you're shooting a large human being, not a small flying disk. I didn't have a problem with my already front heavy 1100 with an extension.

Note: the added weight can compromise the cycling ability of some recoil operated semi autos.

Louis Awerbuck says of shotguns, "No magazine is ever big enough." Clint Smith reminds us that even extended magazines eventually run out, so "we gotta practice loadin' 'em."
I have to agree 100%

Of course, I'm not much of a shotgun "sport" shooter, either for hunting or for trap/skeet/sporting clays. So, perhaps I just don't appreciete the fine points of shotgun balance and handling, but I've never noticed any problem with handling a gun with a fully loaded, extended mag.

I think you really have to ask yourself in a cold unimpassioned way, what it is you feel you'll be defending against .

Let the natural course of events filter out the video games, movies, TV shows, inter-babble/photos, tacti-geek advice and any other riot of zomlypsageddon2K scenario.

Stick with what you got and train with it - oh, and load it well.

My Bennelli M1 with it's 8 round mag points like a dream and seems light as a feather. Nice balance, good ergonomics, soft recoil.

The 1100 sits alone and dejected in the back of the safe...

Something to consider with a +2:

It partially depends on how you plan to store it. Many people store their pump gun with a full magazine and nothing in the chamber.
Some with hammer back requiring the slide to be manually unlocked to cycle, and others with the hammer down in what is referred to as 'cruiser ready' leaving the slide able to move but requiring nothing but a quick pump to chamber a round.
Both requires the pump shotgun to be pumped once to put a round in the chamber.
Similarly some store their semi-auto shotguns this way, requiring the action to be cycle once initially.
This means you have just eliminated the weight and leverage of at least one round in the extension before needing to swing it, the extension itself being of minimal weight compared to the lead in the round.


Some people like to download the magazine whether they have one in the chamber or not. This can allow someone to either cycle the shotgun to chamber the first round, or to put say a slug from a side saddle or butt cuff etc in a magazine loaded with something else. In fact defensive use aside, I have found having to load a single round of bird shot for rattle snakes to be far more frequent than anything else. Generally not downloading the magazine, I have to then remove a defensive round, making room for the birdshot. (I still don't like to use a gun for them, but keep one ready while dealing with them in case it goes on the offense while I am dispatching it with something else.)
Any round can be loaded in the magazine if it is downloaded, then the action cycled to quickly put the just manually loaded round type in the action without having to deal with unloading anything or trying to keep the next round from the full magazine from cycling into the action while you do it.
If the gun is stored chamber empty and one down in the magazine, the first pump would then put the magazine at -2, magazine extension now empty, that weight is no longer forward.
Such a gun with a magazine extension is essentially using the capacity of a fully loaded and chambered stock magazine and has a similar weight with the benefit of being able to simply put any round in the magazine and cycle it next.
So even if you don't like a magazine extension, one may wish to install one and simply not load it as the extension by itself weighs very little.

Some people also load the magazine full, and have one in the chamber. This of course does put the full weight forward. So you are talking about the weight of 2 rounds applying maximum leverage at the furthest point from the fulcrum.


While the weight of a couple or more rounds is not much, it does make a bigger difference than the weight of the rounds themselves because of the leverage. Rounds next to the action in the magazine have almost no leverage. Rounds at the end of the barrel have a lot of leverage.
Your primary hand on the grip is the fulcrum, so as you get forward of that the effect of leverage increases substantially.
Also as you get forward of where you support hand holds the gun the weight and handling will be noticed even further.
So its not just a couple ounces, it is a lever applying leverage and someone so inclined could use some math to solve just how much greater of a difference it is.


There is no wrong solution. They just handle differently. However perfect swing is really more important when shooting small moving objects, or maybe a gun fight in a big open space. Indoors defensively shotguns are aimed at bigger slower things with little room to maneuver the gun in and are often handled more like carbines. So the extension brings the capacity up to the length of the barrel and is a decent match without much handling sacrifice in the intended role in my opinion.
That said I personally would rather have a 12-14 inch shotgun with the barrel ending just forward of the support hand. Requiring no magazine forward and ending the leverage right around the support hand. As some law enforcement guns are set up.
Making the question whether to have a 5 round magazine with a 14", or a 4 round magazine with a 12 inch. With both handling much better indoors with lower overall length and the support hand practically moving the gun from the muzzle nearly instantly with no resistance. Swing in such a role is not that important when the support hand can instantly put the muzzle wherever it wants.
That should be the real question: 12" or 14", 4 or 5. Shotgun barrels also don't result in much velocity lost at that length either.
However due to our laws we have to use field guns inside, or go through a hassle to have a gun with a lot more legal red tape and restrictions as an NFA item.

For home defense I got the Mossberg with the 20" barrel that holds 8+1. I hope to never need that much but I'd rather have it and not need it.

Zoogster explained my thought process better than I did. Another benefit of not fully loading an extended magazine is that I've never had the problem of spring pressure deforming the shells that others have reported.

Home defense is home defense 'Dood'. On that horrible night when some crack head is trying to possibly kill you, are you going to want that extra shot or two? Let's everybody say it together, HELL YES!!!!! . You want every possible human advantage you can get, and then some. Namely, almighty God intervention. This is your life 'bubba'. You've only got one, and one good shot from some other lunatic could end it. Fast. He's in your house, unload till the threat is DEAD. Sounds awful right? Well it is. The whole mess that they will have caused, is just that. A big mess. Not trying to hit you hard today brother, but being merciful in home defense will get you killed. I've got cops and sheriffs for friends, and I won't go into their storys, but you get the picture. That extra shell or two will add no more than 5 oz. my friend, and the extra metal for the extension itself is thin walled tubing, (I own a full metal/machine shop) no more than another 3 or 4 oz. Is ten or 12 oz. on the end of that gun in a high adrenaline situation really gonna cause you problems. I personally don't think so. On the contrary, the pro's so far outweigh any cons that it shouldn't even be on your radar. Anyway, 'just my opinion, oughta be yours'! memphismark :fire:

I like the standard tube fully loaded and five on the stock for spares. I didnt like the idea of drilling out the dimples and losing the mag cap retaining feature for when I decide to hunt with it.

I have tried my 870 with a +2 extension and I'm happier with with the standard 4+1. The effect on handling is significant. If 5 rounds and the ability to reload isn't enough then I'm in deep trouble.
I personally detest carrying spares on the stock for the same reasons of added weight. I'll carry my spares in my pocket or belt.

5 rounds of 00 buck in my gun with 21 rounds on my waist is "merciful"?

Earlier I posted in favor of 4+1. Tried extensions and didn't like 'em. Why? Could be that I have short arms (32 sleeve). Longer arms may very well handle that extra weight out front better than I can. Regardless, it is an individual preference that may vary by intended application for your shotgun.

I would NEVER add an extension tube to a defensive shotgun! That is just crazy talk.

Here is one of mine without a silly extension tube in sight.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2662/5794737332_ef482c1321_b.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2773/5794737388_0260a3d0a8_b.jpg

Louis Awerbuck says of shotguns, "No magazine is ever big enough." Clint Smith reminds us that even extended magazines eventually run out, so "we gotta practice loadin' 'em." You can see Clint at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw, but Louis has been kinda camera shy for a decade or so.

Anyway, it's a personal choice. Best bet, try it both ways and see what you like. But either borrow a gun with an extension, or borrow the extension to experiment with and don't drill out the dimples till you know what you want to do.

I prefer without but there are 870s in the safe with +2 and +3 extensions on them.
I hold the Rev Clint Smith in high regard. He does preach it!

However, he has apparently never seen a Street Sweeper with a 50 round drum mag. It IS enough. Unfortunatley, you can't buy them any more.

You want more bullets? Add this (http://www.xrailbyrci.com/). #MOREDAKKA (Well not really since dakka refers to more barrel throwing more bullets, not just bullets but whatev)

LOL!!!That ought to have the balance of a finely tuned Sledgehammer

All my training and experience was with standard police pump shotguns by Mossberg or Remington - none had the extended mag. If I were given an extension for a police type popper, I'd never even consider installing it....

Of course several addtional things need to be said. I learned over time to bring a cloth bandolier (with covered pouches that held four or five clean rounds per pouch) so I always had at least 20 extra rounds.... I do not presently own any police shotguns since I'm long out of that line of work. In the field, when your pucker factor has your heart up just under your tongue... your level of training and competence will be far more important than all the extra rounds in the world. As my Daddy used to say... "Kid, I know a lot more about that topic than I wish I did..."

I have a Remington 870 Express with a standard tube (4+1 capacity) and an 18" bead sighted barrel. I am debating whether to put a Scattergun Technologies +2 round extension on it. I would need to drill out the dimples.

The case for getting the +2 extension are obvious. You get 2 more rounds.

The case for sticking with the standard tube are that the gun will be lighter on the front end and faster handling. You could also say it might be slightly more durable with the standard mag, nothing to come lose. I think this is only a very, very slight factor.

Which would you go with and why? Are two extra rounds worth a slower handling gun?
The key is to get gun with ONE PIECE tube in something like Mossy 500 or 590. That gun is designed around the legendary Remington 31 action which the US Army said was the best pump action combat shotgun ever made. I would go with the all steel Mossy 590 they make wonderful pry bars. While I do not like guns that load and eject through same port for combat use the smoothest I have ever tested was Browning BPS with long mag tube. It had special finish which resulted in smooth stroking slide.

Personally, I would stick with the standard mag tube. Being of small stature and moderate physical fitness, the balance of a shorter tube just feels better.

Although the extra rounds may be nice, you could always add a saddle to the ass end, which will make throwing the muzzle up even easier/faster with training.

While I understand the desire to mod a shotgun, the extended tube has always seemed a bit unnecessary considering the nature of the weapon itself, YMMV.

For "oldguy870" Can your waist shoot? In that barrel is where they shoot, and that mag should be as long and full as possible. At all times!
memphismark

I have tried my 870 with a +2 extension and I'm happier with with the standard 4+1. The effect on handling is significant. If 5 rounds and the ability to reload isn't enough then I'm in deep trouble.
I personally detest carrying spares on the stock for the same reasons of added weight. I'll carry my spares in my pocket or belt.
What do you plan to do if you have no time for pants and belts etc.? Criminals don't knock. They enter. Your pants and no side saddle leave you for a sitting duck. Just a thought. I was very rudely awakened while sleeping at my shop about 12 years ago, and pants and shoes and socks didn't enter the picture. My neighbors commercial glass front door was shattered and he was firebombed. Yes, firebombed. With our front doors in very close proximity to one another, and nothing but drywall with no insulation, I couldn't tell that it was not my door, but his, that these criminals had smashed. Having said that, I made a decision that night, that my gun will always be fully loaded and ready to go. If I'm upstairs, it's upstairs. If I'm downstairs, it's downstairs. Shotshells on a pair of pants or belt that you have no time to put on will help you ZIP!!! Just my opinion, oughta' be yours! memphismark

6 + 1 for me.

And then four more on the side.

http://i54.photobucket.com/albums/g105/austin3161324/bfacdeb4.jpg

Firebombed! Memphis. Dude. You need a new neighborhood. Seriously.

Memphismark, maybe I should explain. I don't live in a combat zone. I live on a one lane road in the middle of nowhere with 2 dogs, a good perimeter and household security with hardened entries, ie layered security. I probably have time to get dressed and make coffee before any threat comes into my home. A handgun, good flashlight are near to hand at all times and a carbine and shotgun close and ready. Thanks for your concern but I will not hang extra doodads on my shotgun. I've shot it pretty well for over 40 years without them.

I'm amazed at the number of people who prefer a tube with less capacity, perhaps it's just because their personal shotgun doesn't not have an extension and so they are trying to justify it, I really don't know. For me, I want as many rounds as possible, and for obvious reasons. I have never heard anybody regret bring too much ammo to a fight.

It is all about trade offs.

A lighter gun handles quicker. You can make a solid argument that, for up close and personal, SPEED is the key attribute you are looking for in a weapon. That means speed on target and speed of incapacitation.

If more ammo is so good, then why not a +6 round tube? +7?

Everything has advantages and disadvantages.

Lancer is making +2 through +9 carbon fiber magazine tube extensions set to be released this summer. Available for Benelli M1/M2, Remington 870, 1100, 1187 and Versa max (http://www.lancer-systems.com/NEW_2012.html)

It is all about trade offs.

A lighter gun handles quicker. You can make a solid argument that, for up close and personal, SPEED is the key attribute you are looking for in a weapon. That means speed on target and speed of incapacitation.

If more ammo is so good, then why not a +6 round tube? +7?

Everything has advantages and disadvantages.

Simple...the tube would be longer than the barrel. So 6+1 it is, for an 18" barrel. (shortest barrel legal without jumping through hoops and paying more $)

How about a Saiga with two 20-rd drums taped together!!! After the first 20 rds, just flip it around and keep on throwin' lead. For good measure, hang a few more drums off yer sling and they'll be right thar when needed. :D

What do you plan to do if you have no time for pants and belts etc.? Criminals don't knock. They enter. Your pants and no side saddle leave you for a sitting duck

4+1 of a decent 12 gauge loading doesn't exactly make you a sitting duck.

In that instance of your next door neighbors shop being fire bombed, how many rounds did you have to fire?

You could use a Single Shot gun, if you have the shells to load it fast enough if you need them. I would think one shot would be all most people would need to take.

I have an Olongapo "grab and go" shoulder bag with at least 50 rounds in it hanging off the muzzle of my go-to shotgun as it sits in the corner.

I just have to throw the strap over my shoulder to have plenty of easily accessible ammo on hand, without having to weigh down my shotgun.

I'm amazed at the number of people who prefer a tube with less capacity, perhaps it's just because their personal shotgun doesn't not have an extension and so they are trying to justify it...

I don't think so. The "justifictions" for less weight out front and the distrust of add-on protrusions out front are well stated in this very thread. To dismiss it as a budget concern or other "lack of ownership" ignores the fact that you're getting this opinion from folks who do own, and have owned, many shotguns.

Firebombed! Memphis. Dude. You need a new neighborhood. Seriously.
I have to agree with you on that. You can't even leave an old shoe outside at night or they'll steal it. I'm in Los Angeles area and it's expensive, but you're right, I gotta' get out of here someday. :neener:

4+1 of a decent 12 gauge loading doesn't exactly make you a sitting duck.

In that instance of your next door neighbors shop being fire bombed, how many rounds did you have to fire?
Thank God no rounds were fired, they were gone pretty quick but that was a point I didn't make very well. Had it been my office door they smashed, they would have been on me in mere seconds. Just long enough to get thru the glass without getting cut up, and they would have been in! I was up 6 steps, no more that 7 or 8 feet away. Yikes!!! memphismark

Memphismark, I live in Orange County. We are practically neighbors.

My 870 is my defense gun during normal times. When firebombing starts being a problem in my zip code (a la Rodney King riots 2.0), I am converting my bullet buttoned AR15 to it's natural state with a 30 round magazine to deal with those types of problems. The gloves come off at that point.

In the mean time, 5 rounds on a quick handling 870 with extra rounds on my waist should get the job done.

It sounds like you have put a lot of thought into your security, and that's a good thing for sure. I guess I just operate under the principle that a cop buddy once explained to me and that is, "if a person is crazy enough to come into a strange house, risking his own life, he might just be crazy enough to be REALLY CRAZY!!!! I have a weekend house in the 'boonies', probably a really safe place like your neck of the woods. I just want to know we are all REALLY ready if harm comes our way. If you're confident about your set-up, and only you know, then that's good enough. If it can be improved on, I try to think of reasons why not do it. Especially when it comes my life and loved ones. This is not a better 'options' package for a new car. Maybe you don't really need that 25 disc CD changer with a bass boost option. But it's your life we are talking about here! I'm just sayin'. memphismark

5 rounds of 00 buck in my gun with 21 rounds on my waist is "merciful"?
The key phrase here is: 'on your waste'.....
memphismark

Memphismark, I live in Orange County. We are practically neighbors.

My 870 is my defense gun during normal times. When firebombing starts being a problem in my zip code (a la Rodney King riots 2.0), I am converting my bullet buttoned AR15 to it's natural state with a 30 round magazine to deal with those types of problems. The gloves come off at that point.

In the mean time, 5 rounds on a quick handling 870 with extra rounds on my waist should get the job done.
'Dat's wut'm talk'n bout!! Your AR comments make me feel much better. You've got me beat hands down now, but I'm gonna catch up some day. Hopefully this year I'll be putting an AR package together. FINALLY!!! "You go boy." If Zimmerman gets railroaded, which he very well may, you won't need it. But if he walks.......they'll hit the streets again. I'm just sayin'.
memphismark

A good laugh for everybody.

There was a traveling salesman down in Louisiana who managed to get lost, so he pulls down an old backroad looking for someone to ask directions from. He see's a sign up ahead that reads, "Talkin' dawg for sale." The salesmans says to himself, "I gotta see what this hillbilly is up to with a talking dog". So he pulls up the dirt driveway and goes up on the front porch and knocks on the door. An old man walks up and cracks open the screen and say's "howdy, can I help you". The salesman say's, "yeah, I was just passing thru and noticed your sign out front about a talking dog and thought I'd check him out." The old man replys, "sure, just walk around back and you can't miss him." So the salesman walks about 300 feet around to the big back yard and see's this old hound laying on his back, just watching the world go by. The salesman walks up, and feeling kind of stupid looks at the dog and say's, "Hey, you know how to talk?" The dog lets out a big yawn and says, "Yep, I can talk." The traveling salesman just about jumps out of his shoes. He can't believe what he's just heard! Gathering himself, he asks the dog, "So what's your story". The dog sits up and says, "Well, I discovered I could talk when I was just a young pup. I could tell I was different than other dogs, so I decided I wanted to serve my country. I hired in with the FBI and they immediately started sending me to other countries to spy on foriegn dictators and enemies of America. So there I was, in the company of Kings and killers. Nobody ever suspected this dog from the USA could talk! Anyway, after many years of that I started to get tired of the travel so I quit and went to work for Los Angeles International Airport doing airport security after 9-11. I did that for about 8 years and then I decided to get married, retire, and have some puppies." The salesman is beside himself at this point. He cannot believe what is happening, so he runs back around to the front porch, bangs on the door and tells the old man, "I have just got to have this dog. How much." The old man shuffles his feet and looks at him and say's, "I'm asking 10 dollars." The salesman is in shock, he can't believe it. He say's, "Ten dollars, that dog can talk, why only 10 dollars?". The old man looks at him and say's, "Yeah, but that dogs also a bull****ter, he ain't never been out of that back yard!!!! memphismark "I'm just sayin"

I'm amazed at the number of people who prefer a tube with less capacity, perhaps it's just because their personal shotgun doesn't not have an extension and so they are trying to justify it, I really don't know. For me, I want as many rounds as possible, and for obvious reasons. I have never heard anybody regret bring too much ammo to a fight.
I'm with you man. Hearing arguments about extra weight, this and that, sound like decisions being made on a living room couch with no pressure, plenty of time to overthink things. Nobody, I repeat, nobody, has ever been in a firefight and stopped to say, gee, I wanna quit cuz' my shotguns got about 20 extra ounces, and I'm a little tired now. Can we stop for a minute. Baloney. You'll be so pumped and laser-focused, that muzzle could have 4 extra pounds on it and you wouldn't know the difference. You will probably puke from the adrenaline dump after it's all over it's going to be so intense. Notice how law enforcement and SWAT, all have every light, extended mag, laser, side-saddle and anything else that will benefit them, mounted on their weapon!!! That's because they are well aware that once that firefight starts, you've got one chance to finish it. There's not gonna be any "can we stop, I need to run to my car for a reload please!!" I don't get it. If it's good enough for those guy's it's good enough for me. Even my hard-headed self knows when to shut up and listen, and THEY KNOW BETTER THAN ME. . memphismark

Notice how law enforcement and SWAT, all have every light, extended mag, laser, side-saddle and anything else that will benefit them, mounted on their weapon!!! Not true where I live. Cruisers here have standard mag tube 870's, no extended tubes, no lights, no sidesaddles, no bells and whistles. Swat may be a different story, I don't know any of them, but the beat cops Just have a plain old 870. Since L.A. is probably more like living in Bagdad than central Texas, its probably different there.

Even my hard-headed self knows when to shut up and listen...

That's a good attribute that comes with age. Takes a while to fully sink-in though.