home ffl


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horsemen61
May 9, 2012, 12:23 PM
okay this has got to be to good to be true right i mean getting a ffl from some kit i buy online is it possible.

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Sam1911
May 9, 2012, 12:27 PM
It is, and it isn't. You don't need any kit to get your FFL. You simply need to get your zoning lined up, your business license, file your application, and pay the appropriate taxes and fees.

The kits are supposed to help walk you through the process. They don't make the rules about opening a business any easier, the costs for insurance, ITAR, and license fees any cheaper.

There have been several threads on home-based FFLs (and there are several who post here). Might want to do a search.

horsemen61
May 9, 2012, 12:29 PM
Thanks Sam ill do that

CoRoMo
May 9, 2012, 01:37 PM
Although he is speaking primarily of Texas, dogtown tom's post here (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6286723&postcount=9) will give you more info than you need to get going.

CountryUgly
May 9, 2012, 02:29 PM
It sounds nice but turning your home into a store front isn't the greatest idea. Besides zoning issues alone make this more of a hassle than it is worth. Just get to be real buddies with a LGS owner or a smith with an FFL and if you're real nice to them sometimes they will sell you a gun or two at cost. This is way easier than trying to get that BATF guy to sign off on your FFL after inspection. Bill Clinton made dang sure the days of decent discounts for the average guy at the kitchen table were long gone.

dogtown tom
May 9, 2012, 03:01 PM
CountryUgly It sounds nice but turning your home into a store front isn't the greatest idea. Besides zoning issues alone make this more of a hassle than it is worth. Just get to be real buddies with a LGS owner or a smith with an FFL and if you're real nice to them sometimes they will sell you a gun or two at cost. This is way easier than trying to get that BATF guy to sign off on your FFL after inspection. Bill Clinton made dang sure the days of decent discounts for the average guy at the kitchen table were long gone.
As a home based FFL I heartily disagree.
1. You don't have to turn your home into a "store front". Although I do love neon lights.
2. Zoning was not a hassle in the least. Some locales are home business friendly, others are not.
3. If you meet the requirements, ATF is REQUIRED to issue an FFL. Home FFL's greatly outnumber "storefront" FFL's.
4. It wasn't Bill Clintons fault that people lied on their FFL application about "engaging in the business" when they intended to use the FFL only for personal use. And quite a few online retailers have better discounts than my distributors do.

Bubbles
May 9, 2012, 03:09 PM
As a home-based FFL I'm going to agree with dogtown_tom as well. Zoning is a non-issue as long as you take it into account when you buy your home. :D

To answer the OP - buying the kit does not mean you automatically get your FFL. It just means you bought a kit to help you through the process. You could also do research here and find the same info at no charge.

X-Rap
May 9, 2012, 03:10 PM
My understanding is that an FFL is required to have "regular Business hours" but I wonder now with so much internet sales if you couldn't get a FFL for internet and gunshow business only without having an actual store front with hrs of operation?
I really have no interest in a store front public type gun business but am interested in online and gunshow business. Anyone operate like this?

Bubbles
May 9, 2012, 03:11 PM
Nope, you need business hours and a location. ATF will not issue an FFL solely for gun shows and online sales.

medalguy
May 9, 2012, 03:32 PM
Of course your "regular hours" can be Satuday from 10 - noon. :rolleyes:

CountryUgly
May 9, 2012, 04:29 PM
As a home based FFL I heartily disagree.
1. You don't have to turn your home into a "store front". Although I do love neon lights.
2. Zoning was not a hassle in the least. Some locales are home business friendly, others are not.
3. If you meet the requirements, ATF is REQUIRED to issue an FFL. Home FFL's greatly outnumber "storefront" FFL's.
4. It wasn't Bill Clintons fault that people lied on their FFL application about "engaging in the business" when they intended to use the FFL only for personal use. And quite a few online retailers have better discounts than my distributors do.
Touche' friend.....I wanted to go this route at one time but like I mentioned Zoning was an issue....Guess it would be a good way to go if actually doable....Me I'll just stick to asking my buddy for favors:) CDNN's public prices are very good online but the dist. price is even better:)

CoRoMo
May 9, 2012, 05:37 PM
Home FFL's greatly outnumber "storefront" FFL's.
This is an extremely understated fact. I've done some local research and home FFLs outnumber brick-n-mortar stores by a huge, huge margin in these parts.
...you need business hours and a location. ATF will not issue an FFL solely for gun shows and online sales.
I find this hard to believe due to the relations I have with home FFLs around here. I know that it is a no-go for a gun-show-only business model, but one FFL that I know in particular definitely put on his application that he'd only be doing 'GunBroker type' business. IIRC, he said he was asked about it in his interview, but it was okayed. It's not substantial evidence, but I thought the ATF was okay with an internet only business model.

dogtown tom
May 9, 2012, 06:28 PM
CoRoMo
Quote:
...you need business hours and a location. ATF will not issue an FFL solely for gun shows and online sales.
I find this hard to believe due to the relations I have with home FFLs around here. I know that it is a no-go for a gun-show-only business model, but one FFL that I know in particular definitely put on his application that he'd only be doing 'GunBroker type' business. IIRC, he said he was asked about it in his interview, but it was okayed. It's not substantial evidence, but I thought the ATF was okay with an internet only business model.
ATF requires that you be able to operate legally at your license premises under state, city and county laws (including zoning and HOA covenants). It doesn't matter if your only sales will occur at a gun show, the internet or via mail order.

If your city/county/state/HOA does not allow home based business, ATF will not issue an FFL for you to use only at gun shows.

If your city/county/state/HOA allows internet sales with no walkup customers coming to your door....ATF will not likely issue an FFL.

A FFL allows the dealer to operate at two locations:
1. the licensed premises
2. a gun show (or similiar special event)

So........while business is not REQUIRED to be conducted at the licensed premises, it just has to be legal to do so.:D

AlexanderA
May 9, 2012, 07:19 PM
Let's say your proposed business will be dealing in used, collectible, and classic firearms (not necessarily just Curios and Relics). In applying for a local business license (required in my area, for example, and thus a prerequisite before ATF will issue an FFL), why not describe the business as "antiques and collectibles"? This would raise a lot fewer red flags to the local zoning and licensing guys, and wouldn't be illegal or fraudulent if there were no specific local provisions restricting gun shops.

JustinJ
May 9, 2012, 07:46 PM
Home based FFL in Cedar Park, TX was just telling me he had to get an HOA letter worded quite specifically and approval from the city planner.

X-Rap
May 9, 2012, 11:00 PM
So........while business is not REQUIRED to be conducted at the licensed premises, it just has to be legal to do so.

This is fine, I just am just not excited about having to allow the public at my specific premises except by appointment or at least set hours. The zoning is no problem and if it grows into something more worth while then I will sit there 8 hrs a day.

shiftyer1
May 10, 2012, 12:58 AM
I don't know anything about how to go about it, but I can tell you that there are 7 ffl holders within 15 miles of me. I did a search online. They listed address and business name and phone #, I called a couple.......never did get an answer.

galena
May 11, 2012, 12:52 PM
It has been my understanding that the location of your business is subject to ATF inspection at any time, without a search warrent. Most FFLs that I know have undergone inspections of their records and inventory. I don't know if the inspections are scheduled or unannounced. While the above is worded as a statement, it is really a question.........? Something to consider.........I don't think I would be comfortabe with ATF agents going through my Daughter's bedroom checking for inventory. Just asking?

Sam1911
May 11, 2012, 12:55 PM
Here's one of the threads I suggested reading which might help to clear that up: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=651221

No, the Inspectors are there to look at your firearms records. They aren't turning your house inside out and looking through your daughter's "unmentionables" drawer.

MtnCreek
May 11, 2012, 01:16 PM
Let's say your proposed business will be dealing in used, collectible, and classic firearms (not necessarily just Curios and Relics). In applying for a local business license (required in my area, for example, and thus a prerequisite before ATF will issue an FFL), why not describe the business as "antiques and collectibles"? This would raise a lot fewer red flags to the local zoning and licensing guys, and wouldn't be illegal or fraudulent if there were no specific local provisions restricting gun shops.

ATF will contact the City or County before issuing the license.

Jim K
May 11, 2012, 08:13 PM
ATF will not issue an 01 FFL when doing business at the licensed location would violate a local or state law. Usually, those are zoning laws, but could also be a local ban on a gun business in a city, district, school zone, or whatever.

Where no such restriction exists, the license will be issued. So the "I can" and "No you can't" posters are both correct, depending on where the business is located.

But there is a point against a home gun business that I believe is important. Once your business becomes known, it could be a target for gangs looking to obtain guns without, shall we say, too much concern for the legalities. Speaking for myself, I would rather a gang of armed thugs break into my closed store in a business district than into my home in the middle of the night. (Sure, I know, you can get them all without even waking up. Sure.)

JIm

CountryUgly
May 11, 2012, 09:10 PM
But there is a point against a home gun business that I believe is important. Once your business becomes known, it could be a target for gangs looking to obtain guns without, shall we say, too much concern for the legalities. Speaking for myself, I would rather a gang of armed thugs break into my closed store in a business district than into my home in the middle of the night. (Sure, I know, you can get them all without even waking up. Sure.)

JIm

Good point I guess this would be a rob me first billboard. I guess in the sticks of Utah 100 miles from Salt Lake City this is a non-issue but if your just in the Burbs I bet it could make you a more inviting target than your neighbors.

wwwprof
May 11, 2012, 10:51 PM
Granted I probably don't think like a criminal, but I would probably choose a different target than someone's home that I know has firearms, probably knows how to use them, and having the likelihood that one of them would be pointed in my direction ... an unfavorable risk-reward ratio imho.

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