Building a 308 Based AR: Armalite AR-10 vs DPMS LR-308


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capreppy
May 9, 2012, 01:36 PM
I eventually want to build a .260 Rem on the AR platform. I would also like to build a 308 as well.

I understand they are different platforms. I know from researching parts, that finding DPMS based parts seems to be a little easier (MidwayUSA carries a lot of parts as well as Brownell's & Rainier Arms). DSG carries Armalite parts, but who else?

I understand that some AR-10 based parts may be a little more expensive than their LR-308 parts. What parts are likely to be more expensive.

Barrels for LR-308 based ARs seem to be easier to find. I guess I could go the custom route (Krieger?) for a barrel.

The .260 Rem will be long range "tacticool" gun. The 308...well I just want one cause everyone else has one :D

I am building because I want to chose the parts that are going to be used and I've not found (well at least not without a several hundred dollar markup) exactly what I want.

In looking at the two platforms, what other pitfalls should I be looking at?

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chaser_2332
May 9, 2012, 07:51 PM
Go for the dpms for ease of non propriety parts and for the ability to use pmags. You should also consider 6.5 creedmoor over a 260 for an ar build. The length of the 260 sometimes can handicap it in an ar platform, which is why the creedmoor was developed.

capreppy
May 9, 2012, 08:02 PM
I'm already in the midst of building a 260 Rem in a Savage bolt action. I wanted to limit my caliber exposure so wanted to use the 260 Rem in an AR as well.

I will consider the 6.5 Creedmoor. With the exception of brass and dies, there are (as I understand it) a lot of similarities between the two calibers. Powder & Primer choice are very similar.

To my original question though, what on the Armalite platform is proprietary? I know that on the RRA, there are specific limitations and am trying understand that with regards to the 308 Armalite platform.

I have a DPMS AR in 223 and finding parts was really easy. I am leaning towards a DPMS, but don't want to rule out an Armalite unless I have the facts to support such a decision.

chaser_2332
May 9, 2012, 08:14 PM
Ar-15 builds are different they are all the same platform, when u step up the the bigger ar you run into diffent platforms. U can't put the dpms upper on the armalitr lower and visversa. The dpms take a regular small pin lpk that interchange to a ar-15. The ability to use pmags puts the dpms platform of any make above the armalite.

dredd
May 9, 2012, 08:23 PM
I have two DPMS 308 rifles.
One is pretty much "stock". The other I built completely from scratch using just the Upper and Lower Receivers.

The "stock" version is a 24" bull barrel. It weighs a ton, but is a heck of a shooter. The other is a 16" mid-length gas system. It's still not a feather weight fighter, but much easier to field while hunting hogs.
It is also a great shooting rifle.

Both do well with S&B and Hornady. I have not started reloading for them yet.

I have no complaints with DPMS.

To kinda answer your question...
There seem to be more compatible Uppers from other manufacturers that will fit the DPMS Lowers.

Hope this helps.

TexasPatriot.308
May 9, 2012, 08:28 PM
6.5 Creedmore, 260 remington are OK, but if it is the only AR you have and you need it ina SHTF situation, the .308 ammo will be so more readily available than the other calibers.

Weber
May 9, 2012, 09:26 PM
I went with the MA-TEN for my 308, and DPMS pattern.

One main reason, pmag!

Nood1es
May 9, 2012, 09:45 PM
Same went with Mega 308...couldn't be any happier!

capreppy
May 9, 2012, 10:45 PM
I would love to build a Mega MaTen. It is something I am considering.

I'm not a SHTF type of guy. I've got a 223 with plenty of ammo and pistols with thousands of rounds sitting on the shelves. I reload so I've got plenty of finished rounds as well as the capability to load up plenty more.

The 260 Rem (or possibly a 6.5 Creedmoor) will be long distance paper killing only. When (and that is still a big if) I get a 308 AR, I'll already be set for ammo since I load for a 308 bolt action.

henschman
May 10, 2012, 04:08 AM
Another thing you might consider is that DPMS doesn't offer a chrome lined barrel. Obviously that wouldn't matter for the .260 conversion, since you will be putting on a custom barrel anyway, but you also mentioned getting a .308. Also DPMS doesn't offer a 20" barrel in light/GI profile (only HBAR profile, which is heavy as hell).

The main proprietary parts that are going to cost you on the Armalite are the bolt carrier group, upper and lower receiver, receiver extension, and barrel nut.

capreppy
May 10, 2012, 06:26 AM
Another thing you might consider is that DPMS doesn't offer a chrome lined barrel. Obviously that wouldn't matter for the .260 conversion, since you will be putting on a custom barrel anyway, but you also mentioned getting a .308. Also DPMS doesn't offer a 20" barrel in light/GI profile (only HBAR profile, which is heavy as hell).

The main proprietary parts that are going to cost you on the Armalite are the bolt carrier group, upper and lower receiver, receiver extension, and barrel nut.
That is exactly the information I am looking for.

Chome lined barrels aren't imperative for me. In all likelihood I will go with a custom barrel for the .260 Rem. My bolt action is going to be a 30" CBI barrel and it is strictly a bench gun. The AR would be for long distance as well but stil be somewhat useful for hunting (maybe) or competition (WAY down the road).

The 308 AR well I don't have a clue what it's purpose is yet. Might be far enough down the road that it might not even happen.

Quiet
May 10, 2012, 07:21 AM
The new Armalite AR-10A series uses the KAC/DPMS/Magpul magazine.

madcratebuilder
May 10, 2012, 08:07 AM
All .308 AR's are proprietary to an extent. There is no "DPMS pattern" DPMS is a SR25 pattern. DPMS uses SR25 mags, as does LMT, CMMG, KAC and the new model from ArmaLite. The ArmaLite AR-10B and Noveske use modified M14 mags, ArmaLite sells these steel Gen II mags at very reasonable prices, just a few dollars more than a Pmag. KAC mags are $100 +, LMT are close to the same. LMT now ship with Pmags (to save money). You well find .308 AR's that use FAL mags and G3 mags.

The DPMS is attractive price wise and a good entry level rifle. DPMS saving production costs by using a extruded 6000 series aluminum upper vs a forged 7075 the other brands have. DPMS also saves cost on the M4 stock model by using modified AR15 parts for the RE and buffer instead of parts designed for the larger and longer .308 bolt.

There are differences in the shape of the uppers/lowers between brands, differences in barrel nuts, bolt catches and mag releases. The only AR15 part that fits all brands is the safety, FCG and some springs and detents..

Good source for parts.
http://www.762sass.com/catalog.php

My choice for a entry level rifle would be ArmaLite or CMMG, my personal choice was a Noveske N6 but not everyone wants to spend that much.

rayatphonix
May 10, 2012, 09:12 AM
I have a DPMS Creedmoor and couldn't be happier. I'm picking up a 308 upper this afternoon to go with it so it'll be very flexible.

I just picked up a 260 bolt action Tuesday and will shoot it for the first time this afternoon. If I can see a difference in the Creedmoor and 260 I'll let you know. BTW, the biggest difference I can find at this point is the scarcity of 260 brass. Creedmoor brass is available everywhere.

DammitBoy
May 10, 2012, 09:46 AM
Another thing you might consider is that DPMS doesn't offer a chrome lined barrel.

According to their website, chrome lined barrels are an available option.

chaser_2332
May 10, 2012, 05:30 PM
Why would u want a chrome lined barrel on a long range rifle? 99% of match rifles barrels are stainless.

DammitBoy
May 10, 2012, 07:37 PM
They also have stainless steel barrels available...

Robert101
May 11, 2012, 01:00 AM
I went with the DPMS style LR308 20" medium barrel and find the fit, finish, and quality to be great for the price range. Shooting MOA or better first group shot and all day long.

MachIVshooter
May 11, 2012, 02:32 AM
The ability to use pmags puts the dpms platform of any make above the armalite.

I don't see that as an advantage until .308 P-mags are available in 25 ot 30 round configuration. I don't mind paying more for my Armalite mags to have 5, 10, 15, 20 or 25 round options.

As an aside, Armalite uses a stronger 7175 alloy in the AR-10 receiver (lower and upper).

capreppy
May 11, 2012, 09:24 AM
@ madcratebuilder: that is a lot of good information, thank you.

@rayatphonix: google 6.5 shootout. GREAT article written by Zach (one of the mods on THR)

***********
My 223 AR uses DPMS parts and the barrel is DPMS. Frankly it IS a shooter and I do not question the quality of DPMS parts.

My goal with this thread was to understand the difference. There obviously are differences and I am certainly learning a lot.

rayatphonix
May 11, 2012, 12:46 PM
Capreppy, I've read that and ended up getting both! I saw and handled a used DPMS 260 and thought I'd give it a try. I'd never considered an AR-type gun prior to this. The owner of the gun I looked at wanted more than a new one cost at that time so I passed and started looking. The Creedmoor was the first one I ran across at a good price so I bought it.

Both my Creedmoor and 260 have 24" barrels so I'm eager to see which I shoot better. I'm struggling a bit on my Creedmoor loads, but think I'm getting close. I don't know why, but the 260 seems less sensitive to the load. I shot them side by side yesterday.

capreppy
May 11, 2012, 12:59 PM
Once you have a 308 based lower, you can add as many uppers as you have funds :D

Sure, you can always get another lower, but they aren't nearly as cheap as a 223 based lower.

I'd really like to see how well they both do side by side. 24" is a good AR based length. I've got a 26" 308 bolt action and am starting a 30" 260 bolt action. The bolt actions are strictly bench rest type guns. I'm hoping the ARs can be fielded when the opportunity arises.

henschman
May 11, 2012, 03:02 PM
According to their website, chrome lined barrels are an available option.
Yeah, but they don't make the .308s with them. Bushmaster (owned by the same company) does, but only on their 16" ones.

Why would u want a chrome lined barrel on a long range rifle? 99% of match rifles barrels are stainless.
The OP said he wanted a .260 AR for long range, but he also mentioned he was planning on getting a .308 one. He didn't mention what purpose he was going to use it for, but if he was wanting it as a battle rifle, it might be useful to know that DPMS doesn't do chrome.

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