1911 Trigger Question


PDA






IDescribe
May 9, 2012, 06:28 PM
Every article and review I read on triggers/trigger jobs compares the new trigger to the 1911 trigger, which this new, tuned, awesome trigger almost always seems to fall just short of. Rarely do I see one that is claiming to be 'as good' as the 1911. It's always 'almost'.

So here's the question: Why don't gun-makers just use the 1911's trigger design?

Certainly the patents have run out. Am I missing something?

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 Trigger Question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Jim Watson
May 9, 2012, 06:34 PM
As Jan Stevenson said, the 1911 action is "a maze of little fink parts."

So in the first place, it is complex and expensive to manufacture.
In the second place, all those articles and reviews are comparing one or another mass produced gun to a gunsmith tuned or high end semi-custom 1911. A stock mass produced 1911 will have a 5-7 lb trigger pull with a good deal of creep, nothing to brag about.

IDescribe
May 9, 2012, 06:38 PM
Makes sense. Thanks much.

isaidme
May 9, 2012, 06:42 PM
What makes the 1911s trigger is its ability to be made great. Like Jim said the trigger on your everyday 1911 can be heavy, gritty with lots of creep. There is more then one way to skin a cat and some people might consider a different system to be better for their particular needs. The Glocks system is obviously nothing like the 1911s but its simple and effective which alot of law and military organizations like.

Plan2Live
May 9, 2012, 06:47 PM
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out why trigger creep is a bad thing and why having a trigger tuned so light that a stiff breeze sets it off is a good thing. Especially in a carry weapon. But then again I can't taste the rocks, minerals and sea breezes in wine like some folks claim they can.

JRH6856
May 9, 2012, 07:08 PM
I'm still trying to figure out why trigger creep is a bad thing and why having a trigger tuned so light that a stiff breeze sets it off is a good thing. Especially in a carry weapon.

IMO, in a carry weapon is is not a good thing. And creep is not necessarily a bad thing if the action is smooth and doesn't stack (get stiffer as the trigger approaches release). Over travel is what I really don't like. I like my triggers to stop moving when the sear releases.

On a target pistol, a light trigger can make a lot of difference in your score, but it is a difference that is lost in a defensive situation.

Japle
May 9, 2012, 08:40 PM
Posted by Plan2Live:
Heck, I'm still trying to figure out why trigger creep is a bad thing and why having a trigger tuned so light that a stiff breeze sets it off is a good thing. Especially in a carry weapon.
A very smooth pull is important, because it makes the trigger pull predictable. If the trigger fells the same each time you fire, you can get it to go off when you want it to. You won’t have to guess whether it’ll fire on this tiny “crunch” or the next one.

A light trigger is important in competition, because the instant the sights look right you can get the gun to fire. My “open” gun for steel shooting (an STI SteelMaster) came with a 4 ½ lb trigger. It seemed to take a year to get the gun to fire once the dot was on the target. I did a little work and now it’s 1 ½ lbs. When the dot hits the target, the gun seems to fire itself. It requires almost no “prepping”. I wouldn’t want a trigger like that on my XDm carry gun.

Plan2Live
May 11, 2012, 07:23 AM
As I hinted with my wine reference, either I am so unsophisticated that I can't tell the difference between most triggers, except the ones tuned for an ultra light pull, or I am so preoccupied with holding a steady sight picture that I never notice smooth, crisp, etc. But then again I don't shoot competition.

As for predictability, I thought the trigger break was supposed to suprise you. How can it be both predicatable and suprising? :confused:

JTQ
May 11, 2012, 07:43 AM
So here's the question: Why don't gun-makers just use the 1911's trigger design?
Because the 1911 is a single action trigger and lots and lots of folks think single action autos are unsafe or scary.

Of course lots of gun makers do use the 1911's trigger design. The design is a Browning/Colt design and Colt is not the only maker using this trigger system. There are probably over 20 companies using this trigger design. While many of these pistols are called 1911's they are not all Colt's.

Japle
May 11, 2012, 01:16 PM
Posted by Plan2Live:
As for predictability, I thought the trigger break was supposed to suprise (sp) you. How can it be both predicatable (sp) and suprising (sp)?
If the gun fires only after you feel the trigger move several times, that’s going to make it hard to get a good let-off, because you don’t know which of those little jerks is going to be the last one. If the trigger has a consistent pull with no detectable movement, you won’t know exactly when the gun will fire and you’ll be surprised when it goes off.

Once you’re learned to control the trigger, you’ll be able to shoot very fast (say 0.2 sec splits) and still be surprised every time the gun fires. You’ll learn to compress your trigger squeeze down to very short intervals.

There are (very basically) three ways to pull the trigger.

1. Line up the sights, close both eyes and yank the trigger. This is the most common technique we see at the range.

2. Line up the sights. Start the trigger squeeze. When the sights wander off the center of the target, stop the squeeze, re-align the sights and continue your squeeze. This process usually continues until you get tired, your eyes get blurry and you start to get short of air. The next time the sights look pretty good, close both eyes and yank the trigger, just to get it over with.

3. Bring the sights up onto the target and “prep” the trigger. Line up the sights. As soon as you have a good sight picture, press the trigger straight back smoothly and with no hesitation. Keep both eyes open and notice where the sights were when the shot broke. The sight picture might not have been perfect, but the shot will be a good one. With practice, your groups will get smaller and you’ll be able to “call” your shots more accurately.

The above is an over-simplification.

If you enjoyed reading about "1911 Trigger Question" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!