First gun purchase (9mm) - Need assistance - Thank you for your help.


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Raoul_Duke
May 10, 2012, 12:07 PM
I'm 23, live in the suburbs of Milwaukee and just last week had my first experience with a hand gun (have only fired .22 rifles before for pest control)

Anyway I went to the local shooting range (Fletchers in Waukeshau) and rented a Walther PPS 9mm (their selection of 9mms was fairly limited *the only 2 I had any interest in were the Walther PPS & Berretta 92FS*) Shot 100 rounds with some better then average ammo and had 3 shells that had difficulties ejecting.

So the only things I really know that I want from my first gun are (in order of biggest importance to least)

-9mm mandatory (so I can get better at shooting with out spending that much on ammo)

-4" barrel minimum (because I'd like this pistol to be as accurate as can be)

-Reliable, something that's military tested or otherwise, that'll go thru 1000 rounds like clock work.

-No compacts and nothing too overly bulky on the grip (because I want all my fingers to be able to fit on the grip, but at the same time I do have medium-small palms)

-Under $1500 new or used. (I realize there are plenty of just as good brands in the under $500 range, but don't mind paying a few extra hundred to get a gun i'll be happier with in the long run)


That's about all I can think of right now, i'm not to worried about disassemble/reassembly as I work with my hands all day doing some fairly tedious stuff but would prefer that I don't need some big bulky tool if at all possible.

As far as cleaning it, I will clean it as often as is recommended or needed so no need to automatically sign the new gun owner up for a glock or something because I'll do whats needed to keep her in good shape.


Just from my week long searching on the internet & Picking each of them up in store I really like the way the following guns feel.

-HK USP Tactical

-Beretta 92FS

-SigSaur P220
-SigSaur P226
-SigSaur P229

-Even a modified 1911 that was setup for 9mm felt great.


Thanks again for your help I really appreciate it, ever since I shot that first round i've been ittttching to buy something but don't' really have the gun-know how to make an educated purchase.

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Manson
May 10, 2012, 01:12 PM
The 9mm is one of if not the most popular self defense, general shooting calibers. As such you have dozens of excellent choices. The first piece of advice I (and most folks) give is to handle a weapon at a gun store before you buy to see how it feels and fits your hand. Fire the weapon if possible but at least handle it.

One of your concerns was grip size. Any of the 9mm Glocks with the exception of the 26 will give you a full three finger grip as will the H&K and sigs you mentioned. Some people find the Glocks double stack grip too fat. So thats something to consider.

In terms of reliability any of the more popular brands with normal care should give good reliable service. I have several weapons with four and five thousand rounds through them with no failures. One vintage Sig P220 with 12,000 rounds that I can truly not remember ever failing. That being sais please remember that anything man made can and sometimes will fail.

As to manufacturers some of us develop preferences through experience. H&K Sig, CZ, Glock, Ruger, Berretta, and others make firearms that will suit your needs.

I would suggest that you hang out here a while. We have dozens of very knowledgeable folks. Also you might research the various manufacturers web sites. You'll see what's available and what might appeal to you. Good Luck.


ETA The Sig P220 you mentioned is a .45

Furncliff
May 10, 2012, 01:34 PM
My first centerfire handgun was/is a CZ75b. I was looking for a 1911 at the time, but had trouble finding one.The fit of the CZ was excellent from the start and even though I knew nothing about them decided to give it a try. I still have it many years later and have added the .22LR Kadet conversion kit which lets me practice with my full size full weight gun with cheap .22 ammo. Change over from 9mm to .22LR takes me 15 seconds. Since you are starting out this might be a good option for you. A new CZ 75b will be in the$400-550 range depending on the model you select. The Kadet conversion kit might add another $300. These are reliable and accurate all steel guns that are used all over the world by military and police. CZ though not all that well known here is one of the top three largest, small arms makers in the world.

The web page...
http://www.cz-usa.com/products/by-category/handguns/

If you can't find one where you live these are good people to order from and they do excellent custom work as well.

http://czcustom.com/cz-ub-usa-factory-pistols.aspx


One note on CZ triggers. The SA/DA triggers tend to need working in to feel their best. If you want to avoid this period of adjustment buy one from CZ customs and have them custom the trigger. The other option would be to buy the SA only model especial if this will be a range/target gun.

I let everyone that shoots with me try the CZ75b, everyone has enjoyed the experience. The only thing I would change about my experience with this gun would have been to get the trigger worked on or get the SA, because mine is strictly a range gun.

Telekinesis
May 10, 2012, 01:51 PM
ETA The Sig P220 you mentioned is a .45
There are some 9mm Sig 220s out there, but they're almost all surplus.

I would recommend the Sig 226 or 229, and if you can find one to handle, I would also look at a Sig 228. It is very similar to the 229, but has a folded carbon slide instead of a milled slide. It seems to balance a bit better in the hand than a 229 does, but that's more of a subjective observation. I have a 228 and absolutely love it. It shoots no matter what I do to it (even using junk mags) and has one of the best DA triggers I've felt on a semi, and the SA is great as well. The DA trigger does need a bit of working in to get to that level, but all that takes is a few hundred rounds at the range.

Something else to consider with Sigs (especially if you're interested in used Sigs) is the debate between German made Sigs and American made Sigs. Some people feel that the German guns are made better and are of higher quality, and some feel that it doesn't matter and American Sigs are just as good as the German guns. All new Sigs (sold in the US) are American, and the German Sigs are going to be older (and used).

The 228/229s are technically "compacts". I think what you meant was no sub-compacts like the baby glocks.

I will also mention that range rental guns tend to get shot a lot and cleaned very little, so that could have been part of the cause of the failures to extract.

mdauben
May 10, 2012, 01:58 PM
Honestly, for a first centerfire handgun, I'd probably recommend a Glock or S&W 9mm (assuming it fits your hands). I own more than one Glock, and I've never regretted buying them or seriously considered replacing them with something more "expensive". That said, if you really want something more pricy, I myself would go with one of the SIGs (P226 or P229), as I have always been impressed with their quality, handling and accuracy. No matter what you decide, the most important thing is to at least handle the gun and see how it feels in your hand. If you can shoot examples, ever better!

If you find grips on double-stack guns to be a bit to bulky, you might consider something from Kahr like their TP9, which is a full-sized, single stack 9mm with an MSRP of around $700.

plouffedaddy
May 10, 2012, 02:26 PM
Some of the most popular guns out there that meet your requirements of cost, size, accuracy, and passing NATO tests are:

Glock 17/19
CZ 75
HK USP
Sig 226/229
Beretta 92/90-Two (I recommend the slim grips if you have small-ish hands)

One that hasn't been tested but is a great gun additionally is the FNP and FNX line of guns. Also, throw the M&P9 in that category as well.

I think you should decide on a trigger system first though. Do you want DA/SA or striker fired? Both will serve you well; it's mostly preference...

I recommend any of the guns I've listed so far in this thread!

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC00828.jpg
http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC01270.jpg

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG1107.jpg

B_Li_Ber_Tar_Ian
May 10, 2012, 02:37 PM
CZ 75. The most accurate, from the box anyway, 9mm I've ever fired. I'm also very fond of M&Ps and the SR-9, whose thinner grip is the best feeling, IMO. There are a ton of guns I think would meet your criteria, though.

robinkevin
May 10, 2012, 02:50 PM
Go handle a few M&Ps in 9mm they are light, reliable, have everything you need in a defense weapon and seems most people like how they feel in the hand. I would dare say they are better then most of the more higher dollar polymer frame pistols on the market. Also on the comment about the 4" barrel a lot of compacts have 3.5" which half an inch is not going to make that huge, some but not huge difference in accuracy in my book.

56hawk
May 10, 2012, 02:53 PM
Well, your requirements don't narrow it down much. Since you already like the HK USP I would go with it. There are cheaper guns, but I can't think of many that would be better.

ATLDave
May 10, 2012, 02:58 PM
Lots of good advice so far, IMO. One other thing you'll want to consider is whether you want a safety, and how you'd like it to operate. Some prefer no (external) safety for simplicity. Others prefer a safety as a way to provide a backup system against unintentional discharges. I happen to like safeties. You should make a conscious decision on that matter, one way or the other.

MrDig
May 10, 2012, 03:01 PM
Well within your price range and you can still afford more ammunition. I know a lot of people are going to argue about how heavy it is to carry but it was carried by Military and Law Enforcement all across the globe for years before polymer guns were even dreamed up.

Tex4426
May 10, 2012, 03:06 PM
My first and still my favorite is the CZ 75...second would be Ruger SR9...and i dont like them but glock is a great weapon and is probably the most popular handgun for starters and vets..

ku4hx
May 10, 2012, 03:35 PM
Stick with the major brands (Glock, Beretta, Ruger, S&W, Browning and etc.) and you'll likely have few problems. After that, it all comes down to what you like and exactly the features you want.

But, having been buying, selling, trading and shooting guns for over 50 years, I can assure you of two truths:

You'll never find the perfect gun.
You first purchase will likely not be your last.

That being the case, don't be afraid to make up your own mind and buy what you want. Once you have that gun, shoot it ... shoot it a lot. I shoot almost 1,000 rounds per month usually (cast and load my own) and sometimes I feel that's not enough.

Spend the cash and get some professional training.

Join a gun club or range that has all the things you need. Or as closely matches what you feel you need.

Save all your spent brass if you're allowed to. One day if you decide to get into hand loading they will be like gold to you. Or you can sell them.

It's all personal choice and like buying the best car, boat, RV, motorcycle or whatever there's always going to be those who like your decision and those who don't.

Tcruse
May 10, 2012, 04:05 PM
I went through some of your that processes, and after a couple of non-ideal choices (not bad just not for me) I found Glock Gen 4 17. Just right and knowledge that it will function when I need it.
Proably Ruger SR9 or SW M&P would also have been very good. Stay with a striker fired gun. Also, get a 22lr semi-auto target pistol for range practice at low expense.

Thompsoncustom
May 10, 2012, 04:11 PM
Like said above it is very important that you hold a gun before you buy it, a local gun show would be a great place to start. My choice for you would also be the CZ 75b.

wildehond
May 10, 2012, 04:19 PM
+1 on the CZ75.

rellascout
May 10, 2012, 04:30 PM
ETA The Sig P220 you mentioned is a .45

The P220 started out as a 9mm. They were first imported as the Browning BDA in the 70s. You will also see surplus ones marked P220 in 9mm and most will have a european mag release.

You have a solid budget and would suggest shooting as many pistols as you can before you purchase. Try to shoot more than just a few mags. Narrow it down to a handful of gun 5 or so that feel good in your hands and then shoot 200+ round through each.

My short list for you would be in order of my personal favoroites are.... with the money you are willing to spend I would consider getting a base gun stock shoot it for a few thousand rounds and then send it off for custom work. This will allow you to pick your mods from your experience with the stock gun so you can make it a personal one of a kind shooter.

Browning Hi-Power: For under $1500 you can get one stock send it to a good smith like Action Works, Novak, Wild West Guns etc... and they will turn it into a one of a kind wonder 9mm.

Sig P226 Great gun which will out shoot most people. Bigger ini the grip than than the BHP but a world class 9mm. I perfer the older non-railed W. German guns. Consider sending it off to Gray Guns to get smoothed out.

Sig P228/P229 I cut my teeth on this one. It is a bit of a tweener not a full sized gun not a compact but right in the middle which makes it a dream to carry, accurate soft shooter. I prefer the balance on the P228. Many people prefer the stainless slide of the P229. IMHO a lot has to do with which one you started with. Again consider Gray Guns for custom work.

1911 in 9mm: For the cash you are willing to pay you will not find a better trigger than a properly tuned 1911.

Custom CZ75B Have Angus of CZ Customs or Cajun Gun Works slick one up for you. The 75B is a diamond in the rough and with the right world will make a world class pistol. Cajun gun works has a trigger kit which will reduce the long trigger reach to the DA pull on the CZ.

HK P30 This is a nice gun. I personally think the DA stroke is too heavy on the stock pistols but that can be fixed. The grip is adjustable and one of the modules should fit your hands. Gray Guns and lots of other smiths work on HKs so you can refine this one too but your starting price point will be higher than my other recommendations.

In the end it all comes down to what you shoot best. The only way you can determine that is to go shoot some guns. Often a gun will pick you as much as you pick the gun.

Shadow 7D
May 10, 2012, 04:32 PM
GO RENT A GUN
then rent some more

Better yet, find a gunstore with a range and try it before you buy it

ANY main brand gun will do what you want, the ONLY variable is you, and you are you, how you hold a gun is YOU, etc.

OH, and consider, that 1K 9mm is currently ~250, so going a bit more on the pistol is CHEAP

as a matter of face, the pistol is the CHEAPEST part of shooting, after you factor range fees (or membership) targets, ammo, etc.

Ala Tom
May 10, 2012, 04:37 PM
I would recommend the M&P9 full size or the Ruger SR-9c. The M&P has a significant grip adjustment to fit most peoples' hand. The SR-9 has a slight adjustment. Both handle very well and offer as good target accuracy as you need in a defense-type gun as opposed to a target gun with a long barrel. i like the compact or "c" version of the Ruger. Why carry more bulk when you don't have a good reason to? I have fired these on a range. The recoil is moderate and very manageable.

A good feature of each of these is that you can grow them each to .40 S&W caliber when ready (by trading them in) keeping the exact same handling qualities. Both have good triggers and are generally reliable. I have the two in .40 cal, but 9 mm is a good place to start.

But what are your plans for the gun? In Wisconsin you can't do much except organized target shooting as far as I know. You might have to go to Minnesota where they have reasonable gun laws.

mgmorden
May 10, 2012, 04:39 PM
Given your requirements you would do well to look at the S&W M&P Pro series 9mm. Excellent ergonomics, trigger, and sights, and will definitely have the reliability you want.

A Glock (34 or 17) is also an excellent choice. I have a Glock 17 upgraded with the connector and mag release from a Glock 34 and its also an excellent gun, but I prefer my M&P more.

Other than that the SIGs are great gun too, as are the others on your list, Though I'm a bit biased towards striker fired guns instead of DA/SA (even though I actually own more DA/SA 9mm's than striker-fired).

Fishbed77
May 10, 2012, 04:47 PM
You'll get as many opinions as posts in this thread. There are just so many good options in 9mm handguns.

My pick is the Walther P99AS. Perfect combination of quality, durability, ergonomics, reliability, and price. A great out-of-the-box trigger as well.

critter
May 10, 2012, 04:50 PM
I have a full sized 1911 my 'smith made for me in 9mm. That is a very, VERY fun gun to shoot. Utterly reliable, very accurate, comfortable and relaxing to shoot. I love the thing.

go_DWI
May 10, 2012, 04:50 PM
+1 for the CZ75. i find it to be a great pistol for almost anyone, starter or not.

of course like most said though, whatever fits you the best and feels good in the hand is the one you should get. however, if you're willing to spend $1500 on one gun, i'd say just get two "cheaper" ones like an SR9 and Glock or M&P etc. i doubt you'd be disappointed with any of the suggestions listed in this thread as long as you're happy with the purchase!

have fun! these decisions are agonizing but in the best way possible!

ExTank
May 10, 2012, 04:55 PM
Another vote for the Walther P99AS. Or the Wather PPQ. Both are fantastically shootable guns at very reasonable prices.

Take the money you save by buying Walther and buy ammo and go have fun with them.

Kymasabe
May 10, 2012, 05:14 PM
Of all the guns I've ever owned...my SIG P226 was by far the most accurate gun I've ever owned. A very, very close second was CZ-75, which actually fit my hand better, was most comfortable.

Because of grip angle, I can't shoot Glocks or XD's very well, they don't point naturally for me. You need to handle as many guns as possible and find the one that fits you well and points naturally for you.

Buck Kramer
May 10, 2012, 05:38 PM
I wouldn't overlook the XD(M) series, I have about 1,000 through mine with only 1 hiccup.
I limp-wristed the first shot :)

dubya450
May 10, 2012, 05:57 PM
Out of the ones you listed I'd, with out a doubt, get the HK USP tac. But realistically I'd get a Glock g19 for a few hundred less an put the $ you saved into range gear like a nice ammo bag, earmuffs, safety glasses, a cleaning kit, and of course ammo. Just about everyone I've gotten into shooting has started with either some glock or a s&w 38 revolver. Glocks are just so easy to learn the "basics", easy to maintain, customizable to an extent, and cheap.

If you want a better looking and feeling pistol (in my opinion of course) I'd also check out the rugers sr9. I bought one 2 years ago and I've never had any sort of jam or issue with it and you can find them brand new for $400-450 all day. Its a very nice American built pistol at a great price. Cant go wrong.

Tex4426
May 10, 2012, 06:33 PM
As for the cz...takedown is a breeze...slide the slide back a 1/4 inch pop out the slide pin and ur done

2zulu1
May 10, 2012, 07:39 PM
Well within your price range and you can still afford more ammunition. I know a lot of people are going to argue about how heavy it is to carry but it was carried by Military and Law Enforcement all across the globe for years before polymer guns were even dreamed up.

Referencing the Browning Hi Power:

Definitely a world combat proven platform that's often overlooked, has great ergonomics and is just a fun gun to shoot.

Went to the range earlier today, 200+ effortless rounds combined with some movement, back to the range tomorrow for some of the same. It makes for a comfortable IWB carry, even in the Arizona heat. :)

Lots of great choices mentioned thus far, I'd like to add that if a 1911 is in the future to have the DA/SA decocker operate in the same direction as the 1911 slide safety. One of the reasons I don't shoot the Beretta M96 more is because the decocker operates opposite that of the BHP/1911, or even the P220 SAO.

Walking Dead
May 10, 2012, 07:54 PM
The Sig P210 9mm is alive and well.

http://www.sigsauer.com/CatalogProductDetails/p210.aspx

bluethunder1962
May 10, 2012, 08:14 PM
Just bought a berretta 92fs. I will be taking it to my grave.

meanmrmustard
May 10, 2012, 08:16 PM
I'm of the frame of mind that if you can hold the weapon, shoot it, and make a decision afterwards the better of you'd be. Here's my list, in order of what IMO are fine starter rides in descending order:

CZ75
Glock 19 (only because I personally only like the compacts, nothing bigger or smaller)
EAA Witness Match
P226
M&P 9
Sigma sw9ve

That's my take on good, reliable weapons for a beginner. YMMV, good luck :)

Unemployedshooter
May 10, 2012, 08:56 PM
I've owned/shot Glocks, M&Ps, XDs, Berettas, and some others. Would recommend all of the above. Hell, my Taurus 24/7 Gen 1 only FTE'd once. Find a reliable gun you can shoot accurately and comfortably. Try'em all.

Teachu2
May 10, 2012, 10:00 PM
I recently decided to buy a 9mm range gun, after avoiding them for four decades of shooting. Roughly the same budget as yours. Went with a Generation3 Glock 34, even though I'm a long-time 1911 and S&W revolver shooter. The 34 is Glock's "competition" 9mm, and costs a little more than their service pistols. You get a longer slide/barrel/sight radius, a lighter trigger, and adjustable sights. The slide is also milled to lighten it's mass.

I've only had about half an hour (100 rds +/-) shooting time with it, but I like it. I think it will better both my 1911s in accuracy, and is a real pleasure to shoot. It's a completely different animal than I'm used to, but I'm learning to shoot it well.

It was just under $700 out the door, with taxes and fees. The remaining budget will buy 5000 rounds of reloads or 3500 rounds of new ammo. No regrets here - I could have bought a more expensive gun, but this one does everything I was looking for in a range gun. Accurate, soft shooting, durable, and reliable - what more do I need?

WinThePennant
May 10, 2012, 11:56 PM
With my dying breath... Sig P229 Stainless Elite.

Beautiful handgun.

http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/229-Elite-StainHero-detail.jpg

Raoul_Duke
May 11, 2012, 12:15 AM
To start my 2nd post, I didn't realize the Sig P220 was generally .45 the only reason I mentioned it at all was because all the guns I listed were 9mms that I have already picked up at my local gun store and liked how they felt in hand.

And no need to try to tailor suit this gun to cover all bases as far as conceal carry or anything like that as this gun will strictly be a range gun. I intend on getting 4 pistols in total to cover all the different functions I want before I even think about getting any fun guns just for the hell of it. The first of which being a 9mm range gun that I want to be the best of the 4. The next being a .45 for home security / stopping power (of which i'm already leaning 1911). With the third being something for the misses for conceal carry and needs to fire every time so I figure a snub nose revolver or small glock. The 4th being a Conceal carry for myself of which I have no clue at this point, don't really feel the need to carry as I don't live in a bad area and can't remember the last time I've been in a risky situation so this is the last priority.

Other then that I have 0% interest in SMGS, assault rifles, or shotguns *unless I'm mistaken in thinking sawed off shotguns are illegal, because It seems like a nice easy home protector for the misses*. I want to first start with pistols and then sometime or another I'd love to get into precision rifle shooting.

Unfortunately though for those telling me to try the gun before buying the only 3 gun ranges nearby me don't carry any of the guns i've been considering. Which is a bummer, i've been reaching out to friends and friends of friends though trying to see if anyone has any of the guns i'm interested in to see how they feel.



Lastly before I go onto address individual posts I have a list of all the guns available to me currently at my local store in 9mm variety.
999-HK USp9
999-HK USp Vari
949-HK P30-V3

I wasn't aware of the difference between Sig & SigArms & US & German so I didn't realize to take any special notice so these could be any of the 4.
1699-Sig P226X5
1299-Sig p226R
1199-Sig P226R Elite Dark
1149-Sig P226R Exete
999-Sig P226
999-Sig P226 MK25
849-Sig P226 (different store but the main store with all the other models offers price matching)

1199-Sig P229 Elite SS
1199-Sig P229
1199-Sig P229R
1099-Sig P229
1069-Sig Centerfire P229
949-Sig P229


Telekinesis:
Ahh yes thank you for correcting me I did in fact mean no-subcompacts. And thanks for the 411 in regards to German sigs vs American sigs. I noticed at the gun store that some of the Sigs said SigArms on them which to my understanding is the name of the US importer for Sigs, since they are an importer would that mean any gun labeled as SigArms was made in Germany & then Imported by SigArms or am I misunderstanding things?

Plouffedaddy:
Thanks for mention the action, I didn't think to put this as it's not of the biggest concern to me. I don't really like the way the striker looks (if its the one i'm thinking of where there is no hammer), as far as SA/DA no preference really provided the shooting mechanics would recock the gun if it was strictly SA such as the 1911.

robinkevin:
I only mentioned 4" minimum because I really do want this gun to be as accurate as can be so as I pour a couple thousand rounds thru it I will not have reached some brick wall of distance that I can't get past due to gun mechanics and not lack of accuracy-skill on the operator end.

ATLDave:
Thanks for addressing the safety, I forgot to mention anything. Really a safety doesn't matter at all to me, I figure as long as its not some hair-trigger my finger not squeezing the hammer will be sufficient enough so I don't want to limit myself in the slightest by opting for a safety. However if safety is an option I'd prefer it just to be a simple switch/button and not one where I have to pull the slide back or anything funny like that.

rellascout:
I completely forgot about the ability to smith guns and tweak them to perfection, I did realize there were customization parts and what have you but overlooked the tweaking of the gun itself aspect, thank you for bringing it to my attention.

Shadow 7D:
I don't know why I put 1500 as my cap as that was just a number I threw out there I honestly could spend up to 5k in total on just the gun itself and not feel butt hurt about it in the slightest provided it did what it advertised it would do for the price. I realize range fees are expensive so as soon as I get a gun I plan on joining a club where I can shoot as frequently as I like for as cheap as possible. Also that is why I'm going for the 9mm for cheapness of ammo.

Kymasabe:
Thank you, accuracy is a huge deal to me as it's going to be the go to range and will be pouring thousand of rounds thru. And I have picked a P226 up and it felt great in hand.


To everyone else - I just responded to posters in order from first to last and by the time I got to Kymasabe I felt I covered all my bases as far as the real questions/things I missed were concerned.

Thank you so much for your advice so far & taking the time to read thru a somewhat longer post that might make some people :banghead:.

coolluke01
May 11, 2012, 12:28 AM
If you want a pretty gun there are many options. If you want utter reliability and usefulness I would get a Glock.
I have a 34 that I just love. It's a gen 4. I really like my Gen 4 26 too.
With the replaceable backstraps the Gen 4 gives you options for grip fit.

Being a new shooter I would steer you to the Glock because you have little experience with other grip styles and have no "bad" habits formed. The grip angle of the Glock has been developed to be the best angle to counteract recoil and provide faster followup shots.
Many are going to say "well Glocks don't point right for me" or "we all have different hands" or my 1911 was designed by god himself and nothing is better.
The truth is that Glocks grip angle makes a world of difference. Most people that don't like it are just used to a different gun and that's why it feels strange to them. And that's just fine. No sense trying to learn something new if you really don't need to. It works for them let them continue on as they have for 101 years.
You are a new shooter and have the opportunity to start off on the right foot.

Don't think that just because you pay $1000 + for a gun that it will be perfect. Many expensive guns can be fickle. It sounds like you want it to just work! It's hard to beat the track record that Glock has.

Plus then you can show those XD wannabes how things are done. Please don't buy a gun that was made in croatia!

blinkjr
May 11, 2012, 12:59 AM
I'm far down the list on knowledge of the various guns mentioned so far. I'm still too new at this to recommend any specific handgun to you.

I will make one recommendation that I followed when I bought my first (and only so far) handgun (Sig SP2022 in 9mm - love it): Buy new. Some here may argue, but if you are just getting started, get that warranty backing you up. Know that a previous owner hasn't done something bad to that gun. Once you have been around guns for a time, and you have gained knowledge and experience, then you can start looking at used.

My only other piece of advice would be to shoot as many of your options as you can before buying. Something may feel good in your hand until you pull the trigger. I realize that rentals are limited. Most shooters are willing to let you shoot their handguns if you approach it/them properly.

With your stated budget, you should have no trouble finding something that you will enjoy for many years to come. You may even be able to buy a Sig or CZ in both 9mm & .22LR! Just don't be in too big a hurry. The guns will be there tomorrow. Provided our politicians don't try to take them away...

Telekinesis
May 11, 2012, 01:11 AM
SigArms on them which to my understanding is the name of the US importer for Sigs, since they are an importer would that mean any gun labeled as SigArms was made in Germany & then Imported by SigArms?

I'm not exactly sure about the aspect of the naming, but I believe that SigArms is a Sig Sauer subsidiary located in the US, meaning it is an American made Sig. The frames are still made in Germany though. Honestly the easiest way to tell the country of manufacture is to look on the slide of the gun. If it was manufactured in Germany (or West Germany), it will say so.

Another thing to look for is proof marks on the underside of the slide. Basically take the gun in your hand, flip it over like you're looking into the mag well, and then look at the muzzle end. A German gun will have 3 proof marks arranged vertically. An American gun will not.

And yet another good measure is price. It is not always accurate, but it has been quite a while since Sigs were completely manufactured in Germany. The ones that were are usually used and are between $500-700 depending on condition. A good bit less than the typical $1200 for a brand new gun!

Buy new. Some here may argue, but if you are just getting started, get that warranty backing you up.
I see what you're saying, but I don't completely agree. If you just want a new gun, that's fine. But if you're buying new just because of the warranty, make sure that the company is actually easy to deal with (remember, "HK, because you suck and we hate you" ;)). And also realize how much you're spending for that peace of mind. You can find older but still NIB sigs for around $700, that means that on a $1200 gun (new) you're putting about $500 towards that warranty...

Other then that I have 0% interest in SMGS, assault rifles, or shotguns *unless I'm mistaken in thinking sawed off shotguns are illegal, because It seems like a nice easy home protector for the misses*

Not to pull us too far off topic, but short barreled shotguns are actually legal, you just have to register them with the Fed Gov and pay a $200 tax and wait for them to approve it. Its really not that difficult if you want to get into NFA weapons, if you can pass a background check for a pistol, you can own anything. They're actually regulated the same as machine guns (almost) and suppressors/silencers (gunshots indoors are LOUD!).

Also, if you're looking at a strictly home defense weapon, you might want to rethink the "assault rifles". Long guns are MUCH easier to aim and fire (especially at speed) and a .223 from an AR 15 will actually penetrate less dry wall than a 9mm, .45 ACP, or buck shot. The high velocity of the round causes it to break apart faster than other rounds. And if you're willing to get into the NFA world with it, putting a short barrel on it and a suppressor would make quite the home defense weapon :cool: you also have the added benefits of a much more lethal round with roughly double the capacity of a standard service sized pistol.

Last but not least, on the topic of concealed carry... I don't just carry my pistol when I think something bad will happen, or if I'm going somewhere dangerous. If you're looking for terminal ballistics, pistols absolutely suck when compared to rifles. If I'm going somewhere where I think I'm going to have to shoot someone, I'm either going to leave, or I'm going to bring a rifle, armor, and ammo, and a lot of friends with rifles, armor, and ammo. I carry a pistol when I think nothing will happen, but I still want to be prepared for that one random, chance encounter when someone may think that my wallet is worth more than my life.

Tex4426
May 11, 2012, 01:22 AM
for your first as a range only gun im going cz 75 sp-01 all the way...all steel construction..extremely accurate without mods straight out of the box with i believe a 4.75" hammer forged barrel...trigger breaks in around 500 rounds and is very good for a factory trigger...if you want a whole new trigger experience,,sent it to CZ custom shop for a trigger job...the trigger will blow your mind

dubya450
May 11, 2012, 01:28 AM
+1 coolluke01
I like your post about the XD pistols lol!
Glock wannabes in my eyes

gunnutery
May 11, 2012, 01:45 AM
-HK USP Tactical

-Beretta 92FS

-SigSaur P220
-SigSaur P226
-SigSaur P229

-Even a modified 1911 that was setup for 9mm felt great.

If you're really wanting to get into high priced guns, go with the HK or 1911 market. If I were to go with a 9mm 1911, I'd go for a Springfield Armory EMP. STI might make a 9mm 1911 as well. The Beretta's can be on the high priced side, but you can find some good deals too.

I see someone else suggested the FN line, which just introduced a striker fired version as well like Glock. I also reccomend Glocks, but some people HATE the grip angle, so maybe try one out first if you go that route.

I don't have any experience with Sig's, but if I were to buy one it would be the P2022. They go for around $400 and from what I've read, people are really impressed with it's quaility for such a low price.

Good luck wading through all the suggestions, but picking out what will fill a certain niche is part of the fun.

TimboKhan
May 11, 2012, 03:34 AM
Honestly, you haven't mentioned a single gun that I wouldn't own.

With that being said, don't assume that more money means a better gun. My cheapest pistol is a regular old XD that did NOT come with all the accessories, thus meaning that it was priced right at $400.00. I am not saying it is the king of all pistols, but thus far it has been, hands down, my personal favorite 9mm pistol.

On the flip side, I also own a $1000.00 handgun, specifically the Sig Scorpion .45. I like it a ton. But other than caliber, I cannot truthfully say that I have any more or less faith in my XD than I do my Sig. My point here isn't to give you economic advice, because ultimately I could care less what you spend on a particular gun. My point is simply to say that the price on a gun isn't a good measure of quality or reliability.

Case in point, I shot a Ruger P90 for something approaching 15 years. I paid about $325 for it, new. (actually, I traded for it, but that is a long, sad story). That gun had a ton of ammo put through it and it served me well right up until I sold it. That pistol earned my trust over years of excellent, occasionally hard, service. Other guns are and were much, much nicer than my humble Ruger, but none of them, and I mean not a single one, could have bettered my Ruger in reliability, and darn few of them could have shot better. I sold it after all that time to finance another gun purchase, and that was the only reason.

Walking Dead
May 11, 2012, 05:58 AM
+1 to the Sig SP2022. Very good shooter. Rediculous good when you consider the price.

Kiln
May 11, 2012, 06:18 AM
I've got two suggestions that might meet the criteria. I own both and they're both extremely reliable even with cheap ammo and are known for both durability and reliability.

Springfield XDM 4.5: This gun is accurate, comfortable, has a high capacity, and comes with a very nice carrying case. It is a striker fired gun with a great trigger known for its reliability and durability, just like the XD series. Average price runs around $600 around here. If you run a quick Google search for failure reports on this gun and they are extremely rare. I've heard alot of people speak highly of these guns and I'm proud to own one myself. Only 3 jams in over 4.5k rounds makes this gun one of the most reliable I've ever owned...some have reported higher round counts with no issues. Even if I got one of the "lemons" that jams every 1000+ rounds I'm still satisfied. ;)

CZ75B: These guns have proven themselves in the shooting world by being amazingly accurate, full sized, hammer fired guns that rarely have failures. I've yet to have to clear a jam in mine about 1.5k rounds in and doubt I'll have to any time soon. Overall experience with this model seems to be overwhelmingly positive. There are alot of CZ fans out there who have had great experiences with this gun. Price is around $550 in my area.

Both are great choices and won't disappoint. They're a hit no matter where you go whether in the company of novice shooters or experts, they're both still well respected pistols.

robinkevin
May 11, 2012, 09:29 AM
Ok based off your second post I have to suggest a Hi Power or CZ-75 reason being is you mention that you are leaning towards a 1911 for home defense and the those two weapons on very close operation especially the Hi Power. Remember you will fight the way you train so if you train with the Hi Power you will be able to fight with the 1911. I agree on a snub nose revolver for ladies as they are simple and easy to shoot, my wife loves hers. Then at that point for conceal carry for yourself there is a lot of different weapons close in operation to the Hi Power/1911 for carry for you to choose from at that point.

Good luck in your search.

dondavis3
May 11, 2012, 11:32 AM
I like Sig Sauer guns.

Here is a Sig Sauer P226 Swiss Police Trade in that I bought for around $400

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigSauerP2262.jpg

It showed a lot of holster wear on the slide - So I sent it to CCR for a $79 slide job.

I think it turned out well.

My favorite is a Sig P226 X5

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SigP226X5Stainless2-1.jpg

A very nice moderately priced gun is a

S&W M&P Pro

http://i742.photobucket.com/albums/xx67/dondavis3/Guns/SWMPPro9mm.jpg

There are a lot of fine guns on the market now.

Good luck with your search.

:cool:

coalman
May 11, 2012, 01:00 PM
Glock 17. Beretta 92fs. CZ75b. Sig P226. Good times.

Manny
May 11, 2012, 01:41 PM
Good thinking on a what to get in a first gun. Ifyou have the bucks to spend a Sig P210 is the gold standard in 9mm target pistols, or some version of a 1911. Those pieces are a bit out of my range, but I get terrific service from my Glock 17L and 34. The longer barrels really help my sighting for accurate shooting and wring the best performance out of the 9mm ammo. The guns themselves are well proven as reliable and durable and very long lived. They are also quite useful beyond the target range, making excellent defensive pistols.

If you're looking for something more unique, using that base 9mm Glock design Lone Wolf is making versions with their new grip frame that are supposed to be excellant or Robar makes a fully tricked out version using a replacement metal frame that is supposed to be an incredible gun.

As a another choice the Spring field XDM 5.25 or the S&W long barrel Pro would be great choices as we

csa77
May 11, 2012, 09:01 PM
i would highly recommend at least handling a browning hi power before you buy anything. of all the handguns iv held and of the ones I own , nothing compares to the way the hi power feels.

with you budget id buy a MKIII hi power and get a trigger job.

Samari Jack
May 11, 2012, 10:10 PM
See if there is a range nearby where you can actually shoot your preference before you buy. If not, see if the dealer will let you dry fire or maybe buy some snap caps to check the trigger pull.

grayhambone
May 11, 2012, 10:37 PM
the new fns 9 is very nice
next choice 229

sikiguya
May 12, 2012, 10:24 AM
You described a few factors that everyone has ignored.

$1500 budget. You already decided this as your price range. Telling you to get a $500 gun is no different than advising someone to get a Toyota over a BMW.

Full size gun. You have done the research and decided a full size gun I what you want.

Range gun. You want something to go have fun at the range. Preferably pretty accurate.

You described a Sig P226s X5. Go shoot one. Amazing! Oh, you are welcome.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Telekinesis
May 12, 2012, 03:31 PM
$1500 budget. You already decided this as your price range. Telling you to get a $500 gun is no different than advising someone to get a Toyota over a BMW.

Just because you have the ability to pay a certain maximum amount on one item doesn't mean you should pay that price no matter what. The OP could use some of the extra to work down his list of other guns to buy, or buy some extra mags, ammo, and night sights, or *gasp* actually get some training :what:

What I think the OP is effectively saying is that price really doesn't matter as long as we're staying reasonable and not recommending he buy an incredibly expensive weapon just for the hell of it. Once you break the average price of a quality gun (around that $500 price), all you're really paying for are options and preferences.

KTXdm9
May 12, 2012, 07:03 PM
See if there is a range nearby where you can actually shoot your preference before you buy. If not, see if the dealer will let you dry fire or maybe buy some snap caps to check the trigger pull.
Best advice in the thread. Have you shot any of top choices yet OP?

wrigh003
May 12, 2012, 09:03 PM
Not sure if it's been mentioned- a lightweight pistol will recoil more than a heavy one. In 9mm it's not that noticeable, but my Beretta (heavy, pretty much a full size) kicks way less than the couple of Glocks, etc. that I have shot.

For a budget of $1500 I would likely be looking at more than one gun. Maybe that's just me, though. Find something you like the feel of in your hand, shoot it if you can. You'll learn what you like, love, hate, and don't care about with your first one, and you'll use that knowledge when you buy another. Repeat ad infinitum.

dubya450
May 13, 2012, 12:52 AM
@ sikiguya, just because he has a $1500 budget doesn't mean he needs to spend $1500. He can get a great pistol brand new for ~$500 and get ALOT of ammo, a nice range bag, cleaning kit/basic tools, shooting protection, a training course and still have a few hundred left over! Heck, he could get 2 nice pistols with ammo and all the essentials. I see absolutely no reason someone should spend $1500 on a first pistol unless they're very wealthy and like to blow money like it means nothing. Idk i guess thats just me and you may be different ..

How many people do you know that bought a BMW for their first car?? :)

WinThePennant
May 13, 2012, 10:47 AM
If someone is going to budget $1,500 for a pistol, then I think it's safe to assume he's got a few hundred laying around to buy a bag, ammo, cleaning supplies, etc.

For that matter, he can buy a top quality P229 or P226 and still have plenty of money left over for all those things. Or, he can buy a racegun Glock. With that budget, he can get whatever he wants.

Personally, I don't understand the low ball suggestions. They are a waste of time.

WilleRupert
May 13, 2012, 11:01 AM
Sooner or later you'll want to carry. That means your expensive full size handgun will become a safe queen or range toy while you spend your ammo money on mastering your every day carry. My advice: Find a gun you like to shoot, then think about whether you can conceal and carry it comfortably. My p226 is purely a nightstand gun now. My glock 26, 19, and Kahr cm9 get all the range time as they're my go to carry pieces. Something to think about. A sig p229 and p238 are in the ballpark.

ExTank
May 13, 2012, 03:49 PM
Personally, I don't understand the low ball suggestions. They are a waste of time.

Why, exactly, is a Walther P99 or PPQ a "waste of time?"

And do NOT say, "Because it's not a Glock or Sig." Spare me your Kewl-aid, I never touch the stuff.

dubya450
May 13, 2012, 04:26 PM
Man some people just blow my mind... :banghead:
I'm honestly lost for words. Its his FIRST pistol there is absolutely no reason that just because he has the ability to spend $1500 that he should on a FIRST pistol. If thats the route he goes fine, I'm sure he'll be plenty happy with whatever he gets but i just think thats horrible advice to give someone who's looking for opinions on getting his first pistol.
I better go sell all my $600 guns and get two or three $1500 ones because god knows them cheap ones aren't going to work right.

showmebob
May 13, 2012, 04:48 PM
I would not overlook the FNX-9. Guns are like a spouse, individual choice and the pretty ones are not always worth having. Good luck!

dubya450
May 13, 2012, 06:05 PM
Showmebob, I 100% agree with you. The new FN pistol's are top notch. I've got many pistols and my fnp-45 is hands down my favorite. I like it even more than some of my guns that cost twice as much.
OP, I'd definitely try to get your hands on a fnx 9, along with others, and I'm sure you'll really like it. If you don't like the fnx 9 and prefer a striker fired pistol they also make the FNS 9.

carbonyl
May 13, 2012, 06:25 PM
Get a P95. It will last forever and you'll have plenty of money leftover to buy lots of ammo and have fun with it. :D

Triplec
May 13, 2012, 06:34 PM
I've been through quite a few 9mms and I think you are on track with the Sigs. I just bought a sig p225 and it feels amazing to grip and shoot. It is also a single stack making it a little more comfortable to carry than the other sigs you have listed. I think I've found the gun I'll hang on to forever in my p225. Good luck, too many choices.

Raoul_Duke
May 13, 2012, 06:45 PM
After visiting all the gun ranges with in an hour drive (of which none had any of the guns i'm interested in to rent) and all the gun stores with in an hour and picking up/dry firing as many guns as possible I have narrowed it down to the following and will be purchasing one this week!!!


(No particular order)

-Browning MK II Hi Power
-Browning Hi Power

-HK USP Tactical

-SW M&P

-Sig P220 (they have a 9mm for sale at my local gun store)

-Sig p210

-Sig p226 (Fits like a glove!)
-Sig p226 x5
-Sig p226 Scorpion TB
-Sig p226 Elite Dark
-Sig p226 Combat TB
-Sig p226 Mk25

-Sig p229 Scorpian TB (didn't realize the 229's were all under 4" barrel & even though this is only 4.3 it still feels good in hand)



Thank you all so very much for all of your input!

Raoul_Duke
May 13, 2012, 06:54 PM
I'll update with pics when I get it.

Raoul_Duke
May 13, 2012, 09:32 PM
THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your input, answers to questions, and advice.

Update:

Finally squeezed the trigger (pardon the pun ;))

Picked up a "P226 Scorpion TB" under MSRP

Now comes the 48 hour wait :banghead: =P

Here's a picture from SigSaur's website, looks exactly like the picture does.
http://www.sigsauer.com/upFiles/catalog/product/P226-ScorpionTB-detail-L.jpg

Picked up 1000 rounds of Winchester 9mm Luger 115 grain, unfortunately though they didn't have any extra clips available, but luckily there is an upcoming Gun show in a few weeks and i'll try my luck there.

Am a glasses wearer so going to take my time to find the right pair of eye protectors but until then my local range provides free pairs of the standard ones for people at the range.


I'll throw a picture up of the actual gun once she's in my hands.

dondavis3
May 13, 2012, 09:45 PM
Wow you bought a great gun. :what:

Congratulations.

I'm sure you'll be very happy.



:cool:

Shadow 7D
May 13, 2012, 09:52 PM
Congrats, you know they breed like bunnies, get another and next thing you know you have a membership in a Collector club or gun club or range, and a safe full of them dang things....

Welcome to the sickness, Consider finding local IDPA or similar matches, you will get LOTS of coaching for less than a class cost.

WinThePennant
May 14, 2012, 12:03 AM
NICE...

sargents1
May 14, 2012, 04:15 PM
I'm 23, live in the suburbs of Milwaukee and just last week had my first experience with a hand gun (have only fired .22 rifles before for pest control)

Anyway I went to the local shooting range (Fletchers in Waukeshau) and rented a Walther PPS 9mm (their selection of 9mms was fairly limited *the only 2 I had any interest in were the Walther PPS & Berretta 92FS*) Shot 100 rounds with some better then average ammo and had 3 shells that had difficulties ejecting.

So the only things I really know that I want from my first gun are (in order of biggest importance to least)

-9mm mandatory (so I can get better at shooting with out spending that much on ammo)

-4" barrel minimum (because I'd like this pistol to be as accurate as can be)

-Reliable, something that's military tested or otherwise, that'll go thru 1000 rounds like clock work.

-No compacts and nothing too overly bulky on the grip (because I want all my fingers to be able to fit on the grip, but at the same time I do have medium-small palms)

-Under $1500 new or used. (I realize there are plenty of just as good brands in the under $500 range, but don't mind paying a few extra hundred to get a gun i'll be happier with in the long run)


That's about all I can think of right now, i'm not to worried about disassemble/reassembly as I work with my hands all day doing some fairly tedious stuff but would prefer that I don't need some big bulky tool if at all possible.

As far as cleaning it, I will clean it as often as is recommended or needed so no need to automatically sign the new gun owner up for a glock or something because I'll do whats needed to keep her in good shape.


Just from my week long searching on the internet & Picking each of them up in store I really like the way the following guns feel.

-HK USP Tactical

-Beretta 92FS

-SigSaur P220
-SigSaur P226
-SigSaur P229

-Even a modified 1911 that was setup for 9mm felt great.


Thanks again for your help I really appreciate it, ever since I shot that first round i've been ittttching to buy something but don't' really have the gun-know how to make an educated purchase.

There are Lots of guns that would fit the bill you have outlined above. Of the pistols you listed, I would say that either the Beretta or the P226 would be excellent.

I am sure someone else probably already recommended the Glock G17. I would definitely have that on my list too...you wont go wrong with a glock.

Others to consider.
- Ruger P Series guns P89, P95 etc.
- Ruger SR9
- Smith and Wesson M&P9
- Taurus (beretta clones)
- CZ75

And there are many others. Go try a few. Generally speaking, they all work well.

sargents1
May 14, 2012, 04:16 PM
Ok, nevermind my last post.

Seems you figured it out.

Cheers,

(BTW, Nice choice)

ATLDave
May 14, 2012, 04:41 PM
Picked up 1000 rounds of Winchester 9mm Luger 115 grain, unfortunately though they didn't have any extra clips available, but luckily there is an upcoming Gun show in a few weeks and i'll try my luck there.


That looks like a great pistol, and one that ought to serve you well for years - maybe more years than you have left on the planet!

One friendly hint: pistol magazines are not called "clips," except in movies and TV shows. Clips are actually a different thing, and are rarely involved in pistols. I'm not trying to criticize, just trying to help you avoid the noob/mall-ninja tag.

Remember the four rules of gun safety and have fun!

Raoul_Duke
May 14, 2012, 05:04 PM
^^^ Thank you for the correction on my vocabulary, I think the guy at the store was about to tell me the same thing when I asked if he had any spare clips available for purchase but didn't want to offend me or something.

dondavis3
May 14, 2012, 05:13 PM
@ Raoul_Duke

Not to worry - most people make the same mistake.

I know I did.

:cool:

Shadow 7D
May 14, 2012, 08:20 PM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/--n_7MvPM8UE/Tj7Hoj-UlAI/AAAAAAAAAKE/a36pXxKOpq4/s1600/steyr_loading.jpg

Here is a Clip fed pistol, the magazine is internal and fixed (doesn't come out)
magazines will get you less hassling

dubya450
May 14, 2012, 08:37 PM
What is that? I've never seen a clip fed pistol before.

Shadow 7D
May 15, 2012, 12:22 AM
It's a Swiss Styer-Hann 1911(or 1912 depending on source)

Kiln
May 15, 2012, 06:52 AM
The Grendel P10 was produced not too long ago and was also fed from stripper clips into an internal magazine. Of course all accounts say they are very problematic, I was only pointing out that it is one of the extremely uncommon modern pistols that are loaded this way.

Honestly I'd like to have a P10 just for the novelty factor.

Bone2bWild
May 15, 2012, 03:35 PM
I bought my first auto handgun less than 3 months ago. I had different criteria than U but one of the best sources of info was from a guy on YouTube called "Nuttin Fancy" his reviews were spot on and really helped me pick a good gun based on my intended purpose. I go back often just for his point of view on gun ownership.
Good Luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Shadow 7D
May 15, 2012, 04:05 PM
On Youtube gun review, you get what you pay for
the first and LAST suggestion you see me make is this:
SHOOT THE GUN BEFORE YOU BUY

the second is:
what works for me MAY NOT work for you
how you shoot, how you hold the gun, what feel you like, your hand size/build is different than mine, and I don't expect you to do it like me.

the third is:
these guns have the features you have said you are looking for.
note the gun suggestion is only in response to requested features

and lastly: SHOOT THE GUN BEFORE YOU BUY
on youtube reviews
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=472614

What Moderator Sam1911 said about him
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5941743&postcount=11

It's kind of hard to be down on this guy, as he's obviously on the "right side" of the debate and he's much more informative than 99% of the gun videos on youtube.

However...he's touching on some pretty serious topics and attempting to come accross as an authority on the subject(s) he covers, which means he deserves to be held to a higher standard than (for example) "Eddie with his dual-wielded DE .50s" or even the "chainsaw bayonette" guy (to whom I do have to give props)!

NUTNFANCY needs SERIOUS editing. Length of discussion does not neccessarily equate to VALUE of information. And he runs so far afield from the simple facts that he gets into trouble at times.

Make it a gun review, keep it factual, be consise.

That mightl keep him from making statements like (paraphrasing) "this is primarily a defensive weapon... or this could be an OFFENSIVE weapon in the hands of a police officer or a civilian sheepdog defending against "wolves"/bad guys."

So much good info...sprinkled with nuggets of pretty serious misinformation.

So, while he gives decent reviews, I'd not direct anyone to his site because I don't want to have to diffuse / un-teach all that "sheepdog/wolf" crap.

-Sam

Telekinesis
May 15, 2012, 09:11 PM
one of the best sources of info was from a guy on YouTube called "Nuttin Fancy"

I'm not sure I'd call him one of the best sources. He does some good reviews and some less than great reviews. For instance, he took one gun that had failed nearly every federal law enforcement selection trial and called it one of the best guns ever made... He has some good videos if you want basic info about the gun and just want to see it, but I'd not put much stock in his opinions.

sikiguya
May 15, 2012, 11:21 PM
A few weeks?! There is one in Union Grove this weekend. There is about ten of us on another gun forum that is meeting at Lizzie Cafe in union Grove at 10. Afterward, some of us are heading to the gun show. Let me know you want to join us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

dubya450
May 15, 2012, 11:31 PM
I don't really care for nutnfancy a whole lot myself but i do enjoy watching hickok45 and tactical Tim for reviews and shooting.

Raoul_Duke
May 16, 2012, 04:15 PM
A few weeks?! There is one in Union Grove this weekend. There is about ten of us on another gun forum that is meeting at Lizzie Cafe in union Grove at 10. Afterward, some of us are heading to the gun show. Let me know you want to join us.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Completely forgot about this one, i'll be there for sure.

As to whether or not i'll have my new gun with me to check out accessories is another story. Purchased it Sunday (but checkout didn't occur till after 5:00pm so they couldn't get my info into the DOJ until Monday). So I went in Monday to ensure that the information had been entered and they assured me it had. Called them today (48 hours after info was given to DOJ) and they told me they still haven't heard anything back and would be calling in to inquire more.

Guess i'll be renting a gun tonite at the range instead of bringing my own. Ohh well at least I already have ammo.

otasan56
May 16, 2012, 08:24 PM
a brand new Glock Model 17!!!! It is the finest 9x19 pistol made today.

FM12
May 17, 2012, 06:40 PM
Sig 226. Thank me later.:rolleyes:

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