Green Card holder from MN - questions about buying


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IT^Guy
May 10, 2012, 02:26 PM
Hello all! Greetings from MN!

Great site; lots of great information! As the title suggests I am working on my LPR and should have my Green Card in hand soon. Currently on EAD after graduate school and working in the IT field.

I had a few questions about buying a handgun (a .22!!) as a GC holder. I know the state has a 90 (or 60) ay residency requirement. I have been in MN since 2011 and my GC should be issued in a month or so. The question is - does this residency start from the day my green card is issued? Or does this start from the day I got my MN license issued? If it is the latter - then I have already met my 90 day residency requirement.

Just trying to play it safe and make sure I remain a law-abiding LPR (or citizen in the future!). Would appreciate any and all help!

Cheers!

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Six
May 10, 2012, 03:13 PM
Residency is an interesting thing, I suspect the clock started ticking when you arrived in the state with the intent to make a home there.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#state-residency



The State of residence is the State in which an individual is present; the individual also must have an intention of making a home in that State.

A member of the Armed Forces on active duty is a resident of the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. If a member of the Armed Forces maintains a home in one State and the member’s permanent duty station is in a nearby State to which he or she commutes each day, then the member has two States of residence and may purchase a firearm in either the State where the duty station is located or the State where the home is maintained.

An alien who is legally in the United States is considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in that State and has resided in that State continuously for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale of the firearm. See also Item 5, “Sales to Aliens in the United States,” in the General Information section of this publication.

MrDig
May 10, 2012, 04:12 PM
Greetings from another Minnesotan, I suspect you will find residence as far as the state is concerned to be lax compared to Federal Regulations.
I believe 6 (Six) months at an address is the requirement to be a resident this also requires a State ID with that address even as a Resident Alien. Your best bet is to contact the State Attorney General to confirm any information and or debunk misinformation.
They will be happy to help and give you the correct information you need.

IT^Guy
May 10, 2012, 04:36 PM
Cool! I do have a state ID with this address and have been here since September/October of 2011. Before that I lived in another city in the same city.

However, I will call the local police and AG office before jumping in to things!

Thanks again!

Cheers!

Canuck-IL
May 10, 2012, 04:57 PM
You just need 90 days worth of a utility bill or something similar that shows the same (current) address. Some stores (Cabela's for instance) insist that the bills be from the same source.

I've also once had a seller question whether 3 consecutive monthly bills constituted 90 days because of the vagaries of the billing cycles - 30 vs 31 days in a month. To be safe, I just keep the last 4 months of gas bills handy.
/Bryan

bikemutt
May 10, 2012, 08:09 PM
From form 4473, page 5.

Sale of Firearms to Legal Aliens: A buyer who is not a citizen of the United Slates must provide additional documentation (beyond a valid government-issued photo identification that contains the buyer's name, residence address, and date of birth) to establish that he or she has resided in a State continuously for at least 90 days immediately prior to the date of the sale.

You should be good to go once you have your GC.

IT^Guy
September 10, 2012, 10:57 PM
Thanks for all your replies. My GC was approved this afternoon. This is the 2 year conditional GC - will this make a difference, in MN, trying to buy a firearm?

Also, what is the MN law on CCW/PTC for LPRs - the googles gives me differing answers.

LegalAlien
September 11, 2012, 11:37 AM
Just an FYI - and is some good news :)

The ATF has dropped the 90 day proof of residency requirements for GC holders recently.

Check the latest 4473 and confirm, but I am pretty sure that between May and now the 90day requirement has been dropped.

Green Card holder myself and was following this development with close interest.

theicemanmpls
September 11, 2012, 12:06 PM
Contact a website called Minnesota Gunsite. Good people there will help you out with all your questions.

or

Once you have green card in hand. Go to the police station in your town, fill out an application for PTP. With that piece of paper you will be able to buy from a FFL. Most private sellers will sell to you also with the PTP.


TC here.

Any more questions, give me a private message.

targetshooter22
September 11, 2012, 10:38 PM
All good advice there, the permit to purchase process will answer any unanswered questions. Welcome to MN, and of course, the USA. Hopefully things will work out well for you.

IT^Guy
September 12, 2012, 04:45 PM
OK! Thanks for the replies guys!

I called my local Sheriffs office, and told them my situation. The lady, on the other end, was not sure what "Permanent Resident" meant. She asked me about 4 times - "so, you are not a citizen?". I finally told her I had a Green Card. I doubt, they get a lot of GC holders up here, and she said she would have to call back. 10 minutes later she called, and said I could get a PTC - as long as I had taken the class. $ 75 for the permit, and needed my DL and GC.

Still not sure, if having a conditional GC would change anything.


@legalalien - yes, I heard about the new ATF 4473 reqs. The new forms reflect the change, and I do not need 90 day residency stuff. That is certainly a plus!

@icemanmpls - thanks for the info. We shall see how things pan out here.

@targetshooter22 - thanks!

brickeyee
September 12, 2012, 05:32 PM
I suspect you will find residence as far as the state is concerned to be lax compared to Federal Regulations.
I believe 6 (Six) months at an address is the requirement to be a resident this also requires a State ID with that address even as a Resident Alien. Your best bet is to contact the State Attorney General to confirm any information and or debunk misinformation.

Misinformation like yours.

State definitions have nothing to do with federal rules for purchasing firearms.

It is the federal definition of residence that matters.

There MAY be additional state laws (Virginia has some) but even the old '90 day proof' sounds far easier than what you are describing.

MrDig
September 12, 2012, 06:14 PM
I guess I need to apologize for referring him to the States Attorney General to get better information about the Residency Requirements for the State of Minnesota.

targetshooter22
September 12, 2012, 07:11 PM
You're welcome!

Kindly note the difference between permit to purchase (should be free in MN good for one year) and permit to carry (implies concealed, costs money, good for up to 5 years).

brickeyee
September 13, 2012, 02:35 PM
Residency Requirements for the State of Minnesota

What the state defines has no bearing on what the feds define.
They may (or may not overlap).

The IRS has a different set of rules than BATFE.

And state AGs are not n the business of giving individuals advice.

The most you should expect is a reference to the applicable section of state law.

They are the State's attorney, not YOUR attorney (or anyone else's).

They usually only respond to questions that have a broad impact with some type of interpretation, and it rarely has any actual legal force behind it (though in some states the judges will at least review it) as part of an applicable case).

IT^Guy
October 11, 2012, 11:28 AM
You're welcome!

Kindly note the difference between permit to purchase (should be free in MN good for one year) and permit to carry (implies concealed, costs money, good for up to 5 years).

Thanks!! I submitted my Permit to Carry, last night. The lady at the counter said - 1-2 weeks, before I hear back.

Permit to Purchase, also costs money in this county (from what little I know) - I think it is 5 bucks or so for each app.

Anyway, thanks to one and all for posting here and giving me the info that was requested! Let's hope there are no more hiccups as my application is processed.

hermannr
October 11, 2012, 01:32 PM
IT guy. a green card is a green card...that is not something to worry about. Forget anything about it being conditional, it is a green card. You are legally in this country, you can leaglly work here, and you are legally a resident of MN (from what you have posted).

Two things you may want to consider. 1: if you might ever consider moving back to your country of origin, what their laws are concerning firearms ownership. If it would not be possible to return to your native country with your newly aquired weapon you will have to consider the $ consiquences of selling.

2: If you hope to become a US citizen, you might look at the long term...where do I expect to live after I receive my citizenship? There are still a couple states (CA, NY, NJ, MA etc) that have restrictions on magizine size etc...

Read the MN law...look at www.handgunlaw.us for links...purchase what you want and enjoy. MN is not that bad a state for firearms laws. Not the best, but not bad.

IT^Guy
October 11, 2012, 02:30 PM
Hermannr:

Thanks for the reply. MN is not bad at all for gun laws. :) I think I will be here for the next 2-3 years (as the wife is in school). Citizenship is about 3 years away, so am not too worried about that.

There are a few misconceptions about PR/green card status, even with law enforcement agencies and other government departments. Some are not sure on how to proceed. Just thought I'd ask!

Thanks again!

hermannr
October 12, 2012, 12:58 PM
I held a green card from 1955 to 1970...I know.

IT^Guy
October 12, 2012, 01:04 PM
I held a green card from 1955 to 1970...I know.
Thanks!! But, times have changed since 1955... or even 1970. I think the conditional GC is something new, and of course the general population has major misconceptions about GC holders (regardless of conditions)... :)

IT^Guy
October 15, 2012, 10:12 PM
OK, an update. I went in to the local store to look for a gun rest/bench for the wife to sight her rifle in before hunting season.

They had a .22 on sale for 100 bucks. I decided to get one, and started the paperwork. Clerk went in to do the NICS check, and came back after about 10 minutes - and said I had been "delayed". He said they were waiting on a call back that would confirm or deny my application.

What now? Has anybody had this delay before? Also, how long does it take before they "approve" the application. I find it funny as I went through a FBI check (complete with fingerprints and all) about 6 months ago.

dogtown tom
October 15, 2012, 10:37 PM
IT^Guy ... Clerk went in to do the NICS check, and came back after about 10 minutes - and said I had been "delayed". He said they were waiting on a call back that would confirm or deny my application.

What now? Has anybody had this delay before? Also, how long does it take before they "approve" the application. I find it funny as I went through a FBI check (complete with fingerprints and all) about 6 months ago.
Typically, anyone who is not a US citizen will get a delay on the FBI NICS check. All it means is that the FBI needs additional time to research your background and/or immigration status. Typically INS checks get resolved pretty quick....often in under an hour.

A "delayed" response from the FBI means they have three business days beginning the next day to deny your transaction. If the three business days have elapsed and no response from the FBI, the Brady Law does not prohibit the dealer from completing the transaction. The dealer is not required to do so.

bikemutt
October 15, 2012, 11:41 PM
I was always delayed as an LPR, even with a UPIN. Once I became a citizen, and notified the Appeal Services Team of the change so it might be incorporated into my VAF, no delays. Well, except for E-Check which sometimes still has a delay. The last E-Check was instant, maybe a positive trend :)

The system works the way it does, circumstance has taught me to be patient. Prior to citizenship for example, I would not buy a gun at a gun show because I knew I'd be delayed, and possibly have to drive an uneconomic distance to get the gun later. Now, I'll ask if the dealer plans to use e-check, if so I'll pass for the same reason. If they call it in, I'm in. And even the best plans may be layed bare by circumstance, which circles back to rule #1; patience :)

Nico Testosteros
October 15, 2012, 11:52 PM
As a fellow green card holder, I always get delayed these days. Usually just a couple hours.

IT^Guy
October 16, 2012, 09:12 AM
Cool.

Thanks for the info. This happened about 5.30 PM last night. So, am guessing that it should clear out this morning/afternoon. :)

It is surprising that they would have to check all this - and one would assume in this day and age, with the technology at hand the process should be faster!

IT^Guy
October 16, 2012, 11:02 AM
And got the phone call.

Cleared. "Come in and get yo firearm."

papaairbear
October 16, 2012, 11:04 AM
I think this signature line speaks volumes to the question about lack of coordination between agencies and systems...but it's just my opinion.

"Any Idiot can serve in Congress, Vote for me and I will prove it.........."

bikemutt
October 16, 2012, 11:30 AM
It is surprising that they would have to check all this - and one would assume in this day and age, with the technology at hand the process should be faster!

It's not as easy as it seems. Yes, they already know all the information about a transferee at a point in time, but every day is a new day. In the case of citizens, something could occur at any moment that may temporarily, or permanently lead to a firearms impairment. In the case of LPRs, who knows what stupid no-fly list a person could end up on?

So, they start every check as if it's the first. And it's probably not so much what they already know that takes time, it's what they don't know.

IT^Guy
October 16, 2012, 11:46 AM
Agree with this.

But, to maintain LPR status, one has to be on the straight and narrow. Any issues, and your LPR can, and will be revoked. They have your A#, one would think that this could be tied in with the NICS, and make things easier.

Still no big deal. I can wait a day or two - to pick up a rifle. :)

bikemutt
October 16, 2012, 12:35 PM
But, to maintain LPR status, one has to be on the straight and narrow. Any issues, and your LPR can, and will be revoked.

Yes, very true. I've observed it benefits citizens as well to stay the straight and narrow, the accommodations down at the County motel are way overrated :)

IT^Guy
October 16, 2012, 12:37 PM
Yes. I have heard the same. However, I guess the food (3 squares a day) makes up for that!

justashooter in pa
October 16, 2012, 01:14 PM
Cool.
It is surprising that they would have to check all this - and one would assume in this day and age, with the technology at hand the process should be faster!

you are seeing the result of separation of powers, one of the things that makes America the great place it is...

when i was living in china, for 5 long years, the state security agency had my passport number on a national database. every flight i took, every hotel i checked into, every girl i screwed, every bar i drank in, and every motorcycle i stole was hooked into the national database. i couldn't pee into a bucket without some guy in a black suit peeking around the corner.

it's not that way in the USA, thank god. welcome to America. learn about it, and don't try to change it. the things that make it special are why you wanna live here.

dogtown tom
October 16, 2012, 03:30 PM
IT^Guy ....It is surprising that they would have to check all this - and one would assume in this day and age, with the technology at hand the process should be faster!
If the NICS check is done at a slow time the NICS Examiner will have time to check with INS and get a result in just a few minutes......but that has become less likely over the last year.

NICS does have direct access to INS info, its more a matter of not enough NICS Examiners on duty to resolve your transaction without keeping you on hold for five minutes.

IT^Guy
October 16, 2012, 03:44 PM
alles gut now. :)

Went in, and picked up the rifle. :)

Midwest
October 16, 2012, 03:52 PM
alles gut now. :)

Went in, and picked up the rifle. :)
Congratulations!

rule303
October 16, 2012, 04:25 PM
Once you have your green card, you will most likely get a "proceed" right away every time. That has been my experience anyway (as an FFL in MN). Also, the L.E. agency may not charge for a permit to purchase, and they have to approve or deny the application within 7 days. A few of the metro counties and cities ignore those laws as some sort of protest, so if you haven't heard back in a week, you may need to call.

papaairbear
October 17, 2012, 08:59 AM
Als unverbunden wie einige unserer Staats-und Regierungschefs aus dem Volk dieses großen Landes, ist es immer noch der beste Ort in der Welt zu leben. Herzlichen Glückwunsch! Und willkommen zu Hause mein Landsmann!

papaairbear
October 17, 2012, 09:03 AM
"alles gut now. "

Als unverbunden wie einige unserer Staats-und Regierungschefs aus dem Volk dieses großen Landes, ist es immer noch der beste Ort in der Welt zu leben. Herzlichen Glückwunsch! Und willkommen zu Hause mein Landsmann!

Sorry for the double post!

IT^Guy
October 17, 2012, 02:48 PM
Thanks! I had to use google translate on that one. Am not from Germany, or of Germanic descent (but my wife is) and says "Alles Gut"!!

Thanks for the message though!

Cheers!

IT^Guy
November 6, 2012, 01:28 PM
So, I bought a handgun this last weekend. It came in to my FFL on Friday, and I went in to do the paperwork on Saturday. The NICS was delayed as usual. Been 3 days now, and not heard back.

FFL says, I can come in on Thursday and pick it up.

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