Seven High
May 10, 2012, 06:57 PM
Does anyone have experience with after market rear sights for the AK? I am looking at one from Krebs custom. Any comments would be appreciated.
AK 47 Rear Sights
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fatcat4620
May 10, 2012, 07:00 PM
I keep thinking about one but I just dont see any real benefit over more plain old training.
Cal-gun Fan
May 10, 2012, 07:29 PM
The problem with the AK rear site isn't the design, its the too-short site radius. If you want a more accurate AK, I'd just get a side rail and an inexpensive 2x7 scope.
Kymasabe
May 10, 2012, 07:49 PM
I had a Bulgarian AK that I put a Krebs rear peep sight on and it did improve accuracy, made target aquisition easier, was easier for me to use than the stock rear sight on the AK. I also found that using one of the Tapco bright front sights made a difference too ( I used orange).
But, these days there are better choices than Krebs rear peep.
For better accuracy, you need to lengthen the sight radius on the AK and I'd recommend the Dogleg sight from Texas Weapon Systems with their rear peep sight. Find info here: http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html
But, these days there are better choices than Krebs rear peep.
For better accuracy, you need to lengthen the sight radius on the AK and I'd recommend the Dogleg sight from Texas Weapon Systems with their rear peep sight. Find info here: http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html
Sky
May 10, 2012, 08:38 PM
But, these days there are better choices than Krebs rear peep.
For better accuracy, you need to lengthen the sight radius on the AK and I'd recommend the Dogleg sight from Texas Weapon Systems with their rear peep sight. Find info here: http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html
I have a dog leg and mounted a red dot on the rail. It is very secure for windage but the jury is still out as far as azimuth.
For better accuracy, you need to lengthen the sight radius on the AK and I'd recommend the Dogleg sight from Texas Weapon Systems with their rear peep sight. Find info here: http://texasweaponsystems.com/id1.html
I have a dog leg and mounted a red dot on the rail. It is very secure for windage but the jury is still out as far as azimuth.
fatcat4620
May 10, 2012, 09:10 PM
I keep thinking about one but I just dont see any real benefit over more plain old training. The sight radius on an AK is the same a carbine AR 15.
Sky
May 10, 2012, 09:17 PM
I keep thinking about one but I just dont see any real benefit over more plain old training. The sight radius on an AK is the same a carbine AR 15.
My AK is a great shooting little rifle but my eye sight has gotten so bad that plain old irons are pretty much out for me unless I want to wear some type of progressive or bi-focal glasses. Same with the SKSs so it is optics or red dots for me. Getting old sucks more than I thought once upon a time.....
My AK is a great shooting little rifle but my eye sight has gotten so bad that plain old irons are pretty much out for me unless I want to wear some type of progressive or bi-focal glasses. Same with the SKSs so it is optics or red dots for me. Getting old sucks more than I thought once upon a time.....
liberty -r- death
May 10, 2012, 09:31 PM
I have the Krebs on mine and prefer it to the AK factory blade style. Easier to get my sight picture.
Steve in PA
May 11, 2012, 12:49 AM
I put a Mojo rear sight on my WASR-10 and love it.
JustinJ
May 11, 2012, 02:22 AM
Why don't we ever see threads claiming the M4 sight radius is too short given its the same as that of an ak?
Deus Machina
May 11, 2012, 07:21 AM
Why don't we ever see threads claiming the M4 sight radius is too short given its the same as that of an ak?
My theory is that the rear sight aligns to your eye automatically, and moving the gun doesn't move it appreciably.
The AK's rear sight is forward of the centerline in regards of your grip. So it moves, visually, when the rifle does. Thus, you have to focus on aligning both sights, whereas the AR's rear remains in place from your point of view and therefor you only have to concentrate on the front.
Plus, peep sights just seem nicer to the guys that like their AR's. I like them, too, and also agree that the dogleg is the cure for 90% of my gripes about the AK.
My theory is that the rear sight aligns to your eye automatically, and moving the gun doesn't move it appreciably.
The AK's rear sight is forward of the centerline in regards of your grip. So it moves, visually, when the rifle does. Thus, you have to focus on aligning both sights, whereas the AR's rear remains in place from your point of view and therefor you only have to concentrate on the front.
Plus, peep sights just seem nicer to the guys that like their AR's. I like them, too, and also agree that the dogleg is the cure for 90% of my gripes about the AK.
Double Vision
May 11, 2012, 07:35 AM
I have a dog leg and mounted a red dot on the rail.
Same here. I much prefer this setup to Saiga iron sights.
Same here. I much prefer this setup to Saiga iron sights.
SabbathWolf
May 11, 2012, 12:52 PM
I have the older Krebs peep that is adjustable for windage as well.
For the life of me, I don't know why they stopped making them.
But a peep is an improvement for certain.
For the life of me, I don't know why they stopped making them.
But a peep is an improvement for certain.
Sam1911
May 11, 2012, 01:01 PM
My theory is that the rear sight aligns to your eye automatically, and moving the gun doesn't move it appreciably.
That's a fair explanation of why aperture sights are easier and more precise than notch-and-post (Patridge, or v-notch, "buckhorn," etc) type iron sights.
And also begins to explain part of why the "aperture-style" rear sights that replace the AK or SKS rear sight with a peep hole, but still keep it located so far forward aren't really gaining you anything.
That's a fair explanation of why aperture sights are easier and more precise than notch-and-post (Patridge, or v-notch, "buckhorn," etc) type iron sights.
And also begins to explain part of why the "aperture-style" rear sights that replace the AK or SKS rear sight with a peep hole, but still keep it located so far forward aren't really gaining you anything.
CountryUgly
May 11, 2012, 01:02 PM
Iron sights, what's that. Oh that metal thingy hiding behind my quad rail with a scout style mounted pistol scope on it. Ya I give up on those and went with glass.
SabbathWolf
May 11, 2012, 01:12 PM
That's a fair explanation of why aperture sights are easier and more precise than notch-and-post (Patridge, or v-notch, "buckhorn," etc) type iron sights.
And also begins to explain part of why the "aperture-style" rear sights that replace the AK or SKS rear sight with a peep hole, but still keep it located so far forward aren't really gaining you anything.
Well, that's only "kinda" true.
You do benefit quite a bit from a rear peep on an AK.
I noticed the difference immediately and my accuracy improved and groups tightened up too.
Even though the rear sight is forward, it's still closer to your face than the rear sight of a pistol or revolver while shooting.
And also begins to explain part of why the "aperture-style" rear sights that replace the AK or SKS rear sight with a peep hole, but still keep it located so far forward aren't really gaining you anything.
Well, that's only "kinda" true.
You do benefit quite a bit from a rear peep on an AK.
I noticed the difference immediately and my accuracy improved and groups tightened up too.
Even though the rear sight is forward, it's still closer to your face than the rear sight of a pistol or revolver while shooting.
Sam1911
May 11, 2012, 01:43 PM
You certainly may see an improvement just due to the different size of the rear opening, reduction in glare into/on the rear sight, etc.
My point is that it in no way is "ghosting" out like a true aperture sight does, allowing you to see only the front sight, and consciously only "aligning" the front sight with the target.
With any iron sight located so far forward you're still consciously aligning the target, front sight, and rear sight, which is not the principle on which true aperture sights operate.
My point is that it in no way is "ghosting" out like a true aperture sight does, allowing you to see only the front sight, and consciously only "aligning" the front sight with the target.
With any iron sight located so far forward you're still consciously aligning the target, front sight, and rear sight, which is not the principle on which true aperture sights operate.
SabbathWolf
May 11, 2012, 01:59 PM
You certainly may see an improvement just due to the different size of the rear opening, reduction in glare into/on the rear sight, etc.
My point is that it in no way is "ghosting" out like a true aperture sight does, allowing you to see only the front sight, and consciously only "aligning" the front sight with the target.
With any iron sight located so far forward you're still consciously aligning the target, front sight, and rear sight, which is not the principle on which true aperture sights operate.
Ah....I see what you mean now.
Yes, that's true.
It will not ghost out totally like an M16 rear.
True.
My point is that it in no way is "ghosting" out like a true aperture sight does, allowing you to see only the front sight, and consciously only "aligning" the front sight with the target.
With any iron sight located so far forward you're still consciously aligning the target, front sight, and rear sight, which is not the principle on which true aperture sights operate.
Ah....I see what you mean now.
Yes, that's true.
It will not ghost out totally like an M16 rear.
True.
henschman
May 11, 2012, 02:10 PM
I have the Tech Sights rear sight for my AK, and it greatly improved my shooting with the rifle. It nearly doubles the sight radius... it actually has a little longer sight radius than a rifle length AR now. Also, the benefits of an aperture over a notch have already been stated.
JustinJ, it is strange that you haven't heard it before, but I will go ahead and say it: AR carbine-length sight radius is too short! It is still a bit longer than an AK's, and it is a little better in that it is an aperture instead of a notch, but most shooters will greatly benefit from a longer sight radius. I wish Stoner hadn't cheaped out and put the front sight on the gas block, instead of putting it out on the end of the barrel where it belongs! Mikhail had that part right, but screwed the pooch on the rear sight. John Garand on the other hand had it all figured out! ;)
The TWS rear sight looks nice too, but if you don't want the whole top rail, Tech Sights are a good choice. Also, Tech Sights are adjustable for both windage and elevation at the rear sight, so you have nice 1 MOA clicks in both directions, instead of having to adjust the factory front post for elevation, like you would on a TWS or Krebs.
JustinJ, it is strange that you haven't heard it before, but I will go ahead and say it: AR carbine-length sight radius is too short! It is still a bit longer than an AK's, and it is a little better in that it is an aperture instead of a notch, but most shooters will greatly benefit from a longer sight radius. I wish Stoner hadn't cheaped out and put the front sight on the gas block, instead of putting it out on the end of the barrel where it belongs! Mikhail had that part right, but screwed the pooch on the rear sight. John Garand on the other hand had it all figured out! ;)
The TWS rear sight looks nice too, but if you don't want the whole top rail, Tech Sights are a good choice. Also, Tech Sights are adjustable for both windage and elevation at the rear sight, so you have nice 1 MOA clicks in both directions, instead of having to adjust the factory front post for elevation, like you would on a TWS or Krebs.
Sam1911
May 11, 2012, 02:46 PM
It will not ghost out totally like an M16 rear.
Exactly! :) Like the '03A3, M1, M14, M1 Carbine etc.
Exactly! :) Like the '03A3, M1, M14, M1 Carbine etc.
SabbathWolf
May 11, 2012, 04:34 PM
I have the Tech Sights rear sight for my AK, and it greatly improved my shooting with the rifle. It nearly doubles the sight radius... it actually has a little longer sight radius than a rifle length AR now. Also, the benefits of an aperture over a notch have already been stated.
JustinJ, it is strange that you haven't heard it before, but I will go ahead and say it: AR carbine-length sight radius is too short! It is still a bit longer than an AK's, and it is a little better in that it is an aperture instead of a notch, but most shooters will greatly benefit from a longer sight radius. I wish Stoner hadn't cheaped out and put the front sight on the gas block, instead of putting it out on the end of the barrel where it belongs! Mikhail had that part right, but screwed the pooch on the rear sight. John Garand on the other hand had it all figured out! ;)
The TWS rear sight looks nice too, but if you don't want the whole top rail, Tech Sights are a good choice. Also, Tech Sights are adjustable for both windage and elevation at the rear sight, so you have nice 1 MOA clicks in both directions, instead of having to adjust the factory front post for elevation, like you would on a TWS or Krebs.
Do Tech Sights cause the problem of no longer being able to use any side mounted optics?
JustinJ, it is strange that you haven't heard it before, but I will go ahead and say it: AR carbine-length sight radius is too short! It is still a bit longer than an AK's, and it is a little better in that it is an aperture instead of a notch, but most shooters will greatly benefit from a longer sight radius. I wish Stoner hadn't cheaped out and put the front sight on the gas block, instead of putting it out on the end of the barrel where it belongs! Mikhail had that part right, but screwed the pooch on the rear sight. John Garand on the other hand had it all figured out! ;)
The TWS rear sight looks nice too, but if you don't want the whole top rail, Tech Sights are a good choice. Also, Tech Sights are adjustable for both windage and elevation at the rear sight, so you have nice 1 MOA clicks in both directions, instead of having to adjust the factory front post for elevation, like you would on a TWS or Krebs.
Do Tech Sights cause the problem of no longer being able to use any side mounted optics?
amd6547
May 11, 2012, 08:17 PM
Stoner didn't "cheap out" when he designed the location of the front sight. In those pre-M203 days, armies used rifle grenades, and the AR system was designed with a bare section of barrel so a grenade could be slipped over the muzzle.
As far as the AK sights are concerned, I like them fine.
For fast close range shooting, I just place the front sight post/ring in between the two hinges at the front of the rear sight...they look like square posts from the rear...very fast and open.
For more accurate fire, I do fine work with the standard rear sight.
This pic shows two five shot groups, separated by a sight adjustment, fired at 100 yards through heavy rain that made it hard to see the target. Fired using my Yugo M70 under folder which was built from a Serb war surplus parts kit with original Yugo barrel.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/amd6547/Yugo%20M70/DSC01611.jpg
As far as the AK sights are concerned, I like them fine.
For fast close range shooting, I just place the front sight post/ring in between the two hinges at the front of the rear sight...they look like square posts from the rear...very fast and open.
For more accurate fire, I do fine work with the standard rear sight.
This pic shows two five shot groups, separated by a sight adjustment, fired at 100 yards through heavy rain that made it hard to see the target. Fired using my Yugo M70 under folder which was built from a Serb war surplus parts kit with original Yugo barrel.
http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h61/amd6547/Yugo%20M70/DSC01611.jpg
Cal-gun Fan
May 11, 2012, 08:25 PM
AMD, what kind of mag is that?
amd6547
May 11, 2012, 08:32 PM
The magazine pictured is Polish...polymer with steel feed lips. About five years ago they were $10 apiece brand new. A gun show dealer had a big box of them, and I bought four.
Not sure if they are still around, but they are great mags.
Not sure if they are still around, but they are great mags.
wally
May 12, 2012, 05:35 PM
Why don't we ever see threads claiming the M4 sight radius is too short given its the same as that of an ak
Because its an aperture, quite close to your eye which has a "lens" effect to sharpen your vision. Makes an enormous difference once you get ~40 years old, doesn't hinder 20 year old eyes either since the modest "pinhole" lens effect of the aperture increases apparent depth of field helping with sight alignment.
Because its an aperture, quite close to your eye which has a "lens" effect to sharpen your vision. Makes an enormous difference once you get ~40 years old, doesn't hinder 20 year old eyes either since the modest "pinhole" lens effect of the aperture increases apparent depth of field helping with sight alignment.
kayak-man
May 13, 2012, 12:12 PM
My random and unsolicited musings about AK sights:
I shot a tactical rifle match yesterday. I was using my AK with stock iron sights. Everyone else was using an AR, and they all had optics. I was pretty confident because the last time I shot my AK, I was able to (eventually) hit clay pigeons at 100 yrds with the iron sights. I'm not a precision rifle shooter, so forgive my lack of nomenclature, but I was shooting from an unsupported (no sling/bi-pod/rest) standing position.
I know thats not mind blowing accuracy, but it was the first time I'd shot the rifle at that distance, so I was pretty happy with it. Anyways... at the rifle match, my problem wasn't the accuracy of the gun. My problem was how long it took to get a good sight picture. Add on to that, some of the targets were set up in such a way, that when I did have a good sight picture, I could barely see the front sight of my rifle.
I think the sights you want are going to be dependent on the type of shooting you'll be doing. A longer sight radius and more precise sights would be awesome if your planning on doing a lot of shooting at longer distances. On the other hand, if your doing your shooting up close, faster sights might be the way to go. Either an optic, or some kind of rear peep sight.
Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
I shot a tactical rifle match yesterday. I was using my AK with stock iron sights. Everyone else was using an AR, and they all had optics. I was pretty confident because the last time I shot my AK, I was able to (eventually) hit clay pigeons at 100 yrds with the iron sights. I'm not a precision rifle shooter, so forgive my lack of nomenclature, but I was shooting from an unsupported (no sling/bi-pod/rest) standing position.
I know thats not mind blowing accuracy, but it was the first time I'd shot the rifle at that distance, so I was pretty happy with it. Anyways... at the rifle match, my problem wasn't the accuracy of the gun. My problem was how long it took to get a good sight picture. Add on to that, some of the targets were set up in such a way, that when I did have a good sight picture, I could barely see the front sight of my rifle.
I think the sights you want are going to be dependent on the type of shooting you'll be doing. A longer sight radius and more precise sights would be awesome if your planning on doing a lot of shooting at longer distances. On the other hand, if your doing your shooting up close, faster sights might be the way to go. Either an optic, or some kind of rear peep sight.
Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
SabbathWolf
May 13, 2012, 03:00 PM
My random and unsolicited musings about AK sights:
I shot a tactical rifle match yesterday. I was using my AK with stock iron sights. Everyone else was using an AR, and they all had optics. I was pretty confident because the last time I shot my AK, I was able to (eventually) hit clay pigeons at 100 yrds with the iron sights. I'm not a precision rifle shooter, so forgive my lack of nomenclature, but I was shooting from an unsupported (no sling/bi-pod/rest) standing position.
I know thats not mind blowing accuracy, but it was the first time I'd shot the rifle at that distance, so I was pretty happy with it. Anyways... at the rifle match, my problem wasn't the accuracy of the gun. My problem was how long it took to get a good sight picture. Add on to that, some of the targets were set up in such a way, that when I did have a good sight picture, I could barely see the front sight of my rifle.
I think the sights you want are going to be dependent on the type of shooting you'll be doing. A longer sight radius and more precise sights would be awesome if your planning on doing a lot of shooting at longer distances. On the other hand, if your doing your shooting up close, faster sights might be the way to go. Either an optic, or some kind of rear peep sight.
Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
I set mine up with an Aimpoint for similar reasons like you mention.
I use a Krebs peep sight as a back-up.
The red-dot is still much faster on target than the irons.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/SLR954.jpg
I shot a tactical rifle match yesterday. I was using my AK with stock iron sights. Everyone else was using an AR, and they all had optics. I was pretty confident because the last time I shot my AK, I was able to (eventually) hit clay pigeons at 100 yrds with the iron sights. I'm not a precision rifle shooter, so forgive my lack of nomenclature, but I was shooting from an unsupported (no sling/bi-pod/rest) standing position.
I know thats not mind blowing accuracy, but it was the first time I'd shot the rifle at that distance, so I was pretty happy with it. Anyways... at the rifle match, my problem wasn't the accuracy of the gun. My problem was how long it took to get a good sight picture. Add on to that, some of the targets were set up in such a way, that when I did have a good sight picture, I could barely see the front sight of my rifle.
I think the sights you want are going to be dependent on the type of shooting you'll be doing. A longer sight radius and more precise sights would be awesome if your planning on doing a lot of shooting at longer distances. On the other hand, if your doing your shooting up close, faster sights might be the way to go. Either an optic, or some kind of rear peep sight.
Just my thoughts. Hope it helps.
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
I set mine up with an Aimpoint for similar reasons like you mention.
I use a Krebs peep sight as a back-up.
The red-dot is still much faster on target than the irons.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/SLR954.jpg
henschman
May 14, 2012, 01:47 AM
No, the Tech Sights rear sight doesn't prevent you from using a side scope mount.
amd6547, putting the AR's front sight on the gas block was not made necessary because of rifle grenades. Many rifles have front sights at the muzzle and still use rifle grenades. The last 4 battle rifles in US military service before the M-16 all fit that description in fact. There is really no denying it -- Stoner just cheaped out. To be fair, the original AR-15 sight radius was decent enough... he wasn't probably expecting that the design would ever be shortened to the extent that it was on the carbine-length versions. But even so, it would only have added one very simple part to the design to do it right, and would only add pocket change to the assembly cost. It certainly could have been fixed when the M-4 was adopted... something like a dissipator setup should have been used.
And sure, a guy who is experienced with factory AK sights can shoot pretty well with them, like you did... all I'm saying is that almost anyone could shoot EVEN BETTER with longer sight radius and an aperture rear sight.
amd6547, putting the AR's front sight on the gas block was not made necessary because of rifle grenades. Many rifles have front sights at the muzzle and still use rifle grenades. The last 4 battle rifles in US military service before the M-16 all fit that description in fact. There is really no denying it -- Stoner just cheaped out. To be fair, the original AR-15 sight radius was decent enough... he wasn't probably expecting that the design would ever be shortened to the extent that it was on the carbine-length versions. But even so, it would only have added one very simple part to the design to do it right, and would only add pocket change to the assembly cost. It certainly could have been fixed when the M-4 was adopted... something like a dissipator setup should have been used.
And sure, a guy who is experienced with factory AK sights can shoot pretty well with them, like you did... all I'm saying is that almost anyone could shoot EVEN BETTER with longer sight radius and an aperture rear sight.
SabbathWolf
May 14, 2012, 04:28 PM
I just went to Tech Sights website and looked at them.
I see no way possible to use a side mount for an optic along with these sights.
It looks like you'd have to install your side mount first, then somehow hope the receiver cover will slide "under" your mount and into place...if at all.
Not the ideal set up at all for those who run a red-dot and also want BUIS.
I'd have to pass on these.
http://www.tech-sights.com/
I see no way possible to use a side mount for an optic along with these sights.
It looks like you'd have to install your side mount first, then somehow hope the receiver cover will slide "under" your mount and into place...if at all.
Not the ideal set up at all for those who run a red-dot and also want BUIS.
I'd have to pass on these.
http://www.tech-sights.com/
amd6547
May 14, 2012, 08:00 PM
Henschman, you may wish to do some reading on a subject before you express your incorrect opinion as fact.
While add on grenade launchers were of course quite common for many military rifles pre dating the AR series, the AR was designed from the outset to launch grenades without the need for an add on launcher. The flash hider is the correct diameter for the grenade to slip over.
Here is a thread with some pics...
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=427838
While add on grenade launchers were of course quite common for many military rifles pre dating the AR series, the AR was designed from the outset to launch grenades without the need for an add on launcher. The flash hider is the correct diameter for the grenade to slip over.
Here is a thread with some pics...
http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=3&f=123&t=427838
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