The Marines and the Holy Black


May 11, 2012, 03:36 AM
I read a thread over at the Rifle Country and stumbled over this post
I thought the Marines were using Unertl.
Anyone else read it the same way I did? :D
Took me a while to see what it actually said

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4v50 Gary
May 11, 2012, 05:04 AM
It Got me too.

May 11, 2012, 08:10 AM
I don't get your point. Unertl is a scope manufacturer. Marines do use scopes. So what?

May 11, 2012, 08:12 AM
Junkman, that means your brain isn't biased towards BP shooting

May 11, 2012, 12:59 PM
I definitely saw Uberti in there, I think about BP more than I probably should.

I was like "Wait... why the heck would the marines be using blackpowder to light terrorists up like a forest fire? Does Uberti make semi-auto rifles or something"

May 11, 2012, 01:11 PM
I suspect they'd do fine with cap and ball sidearms and rifle muskets, provided the bayonets were sharp.

May 11, 2012, 01:27 PM
There isn't much our men can't do! :D

May 11, 2012, 02:25 PM
The Marines and the Holy Black

Only the Army and the Navy, never the Marines!
(Well, not unless they're allowed to borrow it from the Navy. ;))

May 11, 2012, 05:01 PM
Oh, I think they put the Holy Black to some first class use on the coasts of High Barbary
Remember the shores of Tripoli?

May 11, 2012, 10:06 PM
In the Marine's Hymn, the line "To the shores of Tripoli" refers to the First Barbary War and the Battle of Derne in 1805.
This Wikipedia article provides a description of the Battle of Derne and its participants:

May 12, 2012, 08:30 AM
My brain is definitely biased towards Ubertis but I don't see it when I read Unertl. :p

May 12, 2012, 02:43 PM
IIRC that was the first time the US won a battle abroad, wasn't it?

May 13, 2012, 03:45 AM
That's what they say. :)


The Battle of Derne was the first recorded land battle of the United States on foreign soil after the American Revolutionary War.[5][citation needed]

May 13, 2012, 11:15 PM
I suspect a Marine would turn in an impressive performance with a trapdoor 45-70 Springfield and cartridges loaded with Black Powder -if that`s all he had with him when the SHTF.

May 14, 2012, 08:41 AM
Let us not forget that Jyrenes did take part in the War of Northern Aggression, even if they did tend to be armed with muskets and be in the wrong place at the wrong time (not their faults).

Today I would bet they still DO use BP... in the initiator cartridge for their 155mm guns. Looks amaziningly like a .45-70 cartridge as a blank. It is inserted in the firing mechanism of the gun (itself removable from the breech via a bayonet type attachment) and serves as the "primer" for the starting the main propelling charge.


May 15, 2012, 04:24 PM
If I recall correctly from training at the Army's Field Artillery School at Fort Sill, Oklahoma, in 1969, the "primer" as we called it, for the 155mm howitzers was a black powder-filled .38 Special "blank" cartridge.

I don't think I ever saw a misfire with it !!

If I recall, the 105mm was pre-primed - insert powder bag(s), insert projo, install and set fuze, and GO.

43 years has taken its' toll on the grey matter...

May 17, 2012, 11:48 AM
The .45-70 sized primer cartridgd has been used in US 155s since WWII. We had a "long tom" made in 1944 out in our parkinglot in Hanau Germany in 1981 that used the same cartridge as the then current M-109A1. The .45-70 style primer was also what we used on the WWII towwed 155 Howitzer on our one day of training with it.

There was another BP loaded round for the SUbcaliber device, at least the "warhead" had BP in it from the smoke and smell of it. These were small model cannons that could be mounted in the breech of an existing gun or on a tripod of their own. They had preloaded cartridges of various loads and their own firing tables. We used them against model targets at farly close range. A lot of fun and training in laying the guns, dialing in the deflection and elevation and for the "computors" and the guys that did the work of handling the shells and encrament bags got to sort of loaf around.

Yes, 105 was "semi Fixed" One took out the correct number of incrament bags and then seated the projectile then snatched the removed bags away, cutting their conecting string on the lip of the casing. I really liked the 105s even though the projos were too small for the Improved Convitional Munitions cluster bombletts. Some of the initiator pellets inside tht tube conected to the primer in the base of the 105 casing were supposed to be BP as well.

-kBob ex-13A00

May 17, 2012, 12:25 PM
M21 AT mines still use a BP expelling charge.

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