[FlaBoy]

Hey guys,

I recently took my mom out shooting for the first time, and she LOVED it. Was a pretty good shot too. She has definitely expressed interest in getting a gun for herself (I think she liked shooting a handgun the most) so I figured I'd surprise her with one for her birthday coming up soon. The main constraint on all this is that due to a medical condition and some nerve damage, she is a little weak in her hands (and was always a petite woman to begin with). As a result I was planning on getting her a .22 of some kind (she wont be carrying for defensive purposes at this point). She shot my old Ruger MkI .22 pistol and loved the way it shot, but it was a little too heavy for her to hold up for very long and reloading the magazine and cycling the "slide" was a little more than she could handle easily.

While I know they make polymer versions of the Ruger .22 pistol that would help with the weight issue, I'm assuming cycling the action is likely to be a deal breaker for most semi-autos (also, they are a bit pricey for what I was looking for). As a result, I was thinking the best bet would probably be a smaller-frame .22 revolver of some kind. I figured working the trigger/hammer will probably be within her abilities, and weight shouldn't be such an issue. My only problem is I've never really looked into .22 revolvers (I LOVE .22 autos too much), so I don't know whats out there, who makes 'em, what are good ones, what are ones to avoid, etc. Was hoping you guys could give me a few pointers before I go shopping at the local pawn shops, gun stores, gun shows etc.

Basically, I'm looking for a lighter-weight .22 revolver, ideally one with a frame/grip size appropriate for a woman's hands. It doesn't have to be a top-of-line name brand (only going to be a range gun, never gonna be counted on for life or limb) and in fact a cheap used one would be perfect (don't wanna lay out a buncha money for something she may not get too 'into'). I do want something that will be accurate enough for her to practice the basics of hand-gunning (stance, grip, shot placement etc) at 15 yds or so. Any information you can shed is appreciated. And if I'm narrowing down my options too much by only looking at revolvers, please correct my misconceptions. Thanks!!

[BCRider]

The nice thing about revolvers is that inside the frame is small for anyone. So you have lots of options for grips to fit anyone.

There's a number of lighter options for .22 revolvers but generally they all have heavier trigger pulls in double action than something classic like a S&W K frame .22 or a Colt .22. But then those options are a little more heavy.

The good news is that with a bit of tinkering the light .22 revolvers can be slicked up to provide a nice trigger without too much issues.

There's another option too. If she liked the Ruger but simply found it heavy then check out the new Ruger 22/45 LITE. It's a good 10 oz lighter than the all steel upper version. And the issue of operating the bolt is easily fixed by adding on an aftermarket racker handle such as this'

http://powercustom.com/store/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=97&zenid=j1qa7ndk20fvbrercfp4sk3ra1

If, like me, you don't really like the look of the new LITE models styling cuts in the upper then there's aftermarket options from Tactical Solutions and a couple of others for light alloy combination barrel and receiver options.

And by sticking with a semi auto option you avoid the issues of a long trigger travel such as found in double action revolvers.

Another "out of the box" lightweight semi pistol option would be a S&W 422 or 622. These are alloy framed guns with a small steel "half slide" and steel barrel insert. My own 422 is very light. Although the grips are maybe not the best for a smaller hand. You'd have to find one and see if her hands fit it well.

[bergmen]

Outside of the tedious loading/unloading sequence, the Ruger Single Six is a fine shooting, accurate, light revolver.

Cocking can easily be accomplished with the thumb of the weak hand while holding in a two handed grip.

I've had one for 36 years (first handgun) and still bring it out regularly and have great fun with it.

Dan

[firesky101]

Ruger single six is a great option. If money is a primary concern the heritage rough rider may be the ticket. I have never shot a heritage so maybe someone who has can chime in.

[1KPerDay]

How about a Ruger 22/45 LITE with a bolt racker and a VQ sear/trigger?

Weighs nothing, light crisp trigger pull, even kids can rack the bolt.

Get an ultimate cliploader and the mags load themselves. :cool:

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a206/1KPerDay/Guns/Ruger%2022%2045%20Grip%20Panel%20Mod/cb985f15.jpg

[FlaBoy]

Thanks for all the responses so far guys. As for the various reccomendations for a Ruger semiauto: don't get me wrong, I LOVE these guns, own a few, and shoot the hell outta them. But when shooting mine, it was too heavy for her. And I know they make polymer versions of the 22/45, and they have a new lightweight model, but these would likely put it out of my price range. Plus there is still the issue with the slide. My mother has very degraded gripping strength between her thumb and index finger. So while pulling the trigger (even a DA revolver trigger) or manually cocking a hammer is probably not too difficult (she had no problem doing this with my Colt 1860 Army blockpwoder revolver), trying to get a grip on a slide (even with a bolt racker, which is on mine, probably should have mentioned that) would be problematic.

Thanks again for the information so far, and please keep it coming. At least now I know a few models and brands to look for at the gun show this weekend. I'm hoping I can pick up a decent used older revolver for 100-150.

[momano]

Have you considered the Beretta Bobcat 21a? The tip up barrel is supposed to be easy to work with.
Good luck!

[1KPerDay]

trying to get a grip on a slide (even with a bolt racker, which is on mine, probably should have mentioned that) would be problematic.
you can palm it as well; hard to think of a simpler manipulation if you have limited hand dexterity. But for the price you're looking, yeah, probably not going to work.

[cwl1862]

Ruger LCR 22 all the way...Light weight, no recoil. accurate. wonderful trigger and relativly inexpensive. Well relative when compaired to a comperable S&W revolver.

[BCRider]

If your budget for this is limited to under $200 then keep an eye open for a Harrington & Richardson revolver. They made a bunch of them but two in particular to keep your eyes open for would be a top break 9 shot Sportsman or a tip out hand ejector style 929.

I've got one of each of these particular models and while they are no S&W in the accuracy department they do OK, have a decently light trigger in single action (SA) mode and are not hard to cock the hammer. They made a bunch of others too but some of the less expensive models require you to pull the main arbor pin to reload the cylinder or use a rather fussy reloading notch in the recoil shield to poke out the empties with something since there's no ejector built onto the gun then reload through the same fussy narrow gate. All in all it would be easier ot dump out the cylinder and reload separately. And that is likely too much fussing for her and you.

[MedWheeler]

Ditto on the H&Rs, and on the Ruger LCR-22 as mentioned, though the latter won't come quite as cheaply yet. A secondhand Taurus M94 can do quite well, too; I taught my now-ex-wife with one, and it worked out nicely.
Regarding the semi-autos, someone already pointed out the Beretta 21A, with its tip-up barrel. The same feature also exists on the Taurus PT22, another dandy little plinker that runs around two bills new.

[Kiln]

The H&R Sportsman is a great revolver. I had one for a long time and put alot of rounds through it...certainly more than your average shooter would put through one.

[Marlin 45 carbine]

several of the women I've taught handgun basics to have problem racking slide and clearing the magazine of semi-autos, even my Ruger Mk
they've all been able to run my Taurus .22lr 9 shot. 'fun to shoot' they say. 2 of my sisters have opted for Bersa .380acp, another said 'too much blast' and bought an older but good condition Walther .32acp after I explained the 'more energy' advantage.
a good 9-shot .22lr revolver loaded with 'premium' ammo will get the job done however. just IMO.

[seeker_two]

Another vote for the LCR .22lr.....and a suggestion for Ruger's SR-22 pistol. Should be easier for her to cycle, and it weighs less than the new Mk III lightweight....

[mr.trooper]

Revolvers are bad for people whith hand weakness.

The MKIII has a relatively small spring, thus it is fairly stiff in order to be strong enough to cycle the action. A P-22, or Rugers SR-22 will be much lighter.

[jad0110]

Given your criteria and budget, I'd also recommend some sort of used H&R, single or double action. A single action Herritage Rough Rider also might meet the criteria, though the generally feel heavier than typical H&R models.

[BullRunBear]

Given the cost factor, I agree with the used H&R or the Rough Rider SA.

Another possibility. You specified a handgun but have you considered a Marlin model 60 .22lr rifle? It is very light (about 5 pounds) and short and she wouldn't be holding it out at arms length like a pistol. It is tube fed so no hand strength is needed to load it. The bolt can be pulled back much easier than a semi pistol. It is accurate and reliable with good sights. My wife is tiny and has ocaissional bouts of arthritis. I got a model 60 for her and she can use it even when she has trouble with her Riuger Mk II.

Just a suggestion.

Jeff

[ns66]

i'd suggest walther pk380, easy to rack and shoot, very comfortable grip, useful caliber

[hogshead]

I can't believe I'm gonna say this. Heritage Rough Rider. Less than $160 new.

[Confederate]

My recommendation would be a Ruger LCR .38 Special. The .22LR version is a fine gun, but the barrel length is just too short for a rimfire .22LR. They should have made it in a .22WRM, but even that would have been a bit short on horsepower.

The gun's action is fantastic and the power of the .38 (while still a bit anemic) is many times greater than the .22. Why Ruger would make a revolver with a 1.87-inch barrel is beyond me. It should be 2.25 inches tops.

If she could operate a Mark III Ruger, I'd recommend that in a heartbeat; however, she doesn't have the strength to operate it. Also, autos aren't a good gun to start someone out on unless they're willing to practice. The .357LCR is a bit heavier and absorbs recoil just a tad bit better than the .38, but the .38 is my favorite. The loads are quite mild, the gun light and easy to carry. I'm not one of those people who don't think the .22LR has enough power for self defense. I'm just one of those people who don't think it has enough power in the LCR. You really need a gun that has more power, can shoot more rounds and do it faster. The .22 LCR is just anemic, even with eight rounds. If the barrel length was just 4-inches, it would be perfect.

For what it's worth.

Other suggestions:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/M60_2.jpg

S&W Model 60 .38 Special


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/RugerLCRs_3.jpg

Ruger .357 (top) and .38 Special. More power. The .357 is just a tad
bit heavier for .38 loads.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Rossi511b.jpg

Rossi 4-inch revolver. New models may have 8-shot capacity, but
6-shot with a 4-inch tube beats eight shots in a 2-inch tube.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Beretta70S.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Beretta70S_Metalife_1.jpg

Out of production, the Beretta 70S is easy on the fingers and hands,
has tremendous firepower and great safety. You can still find these in
.22LR. I had mine hard chromed.


http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/F4U.jpg

Corsair...Light, fast and has great firepower.

[TimboKhan]

Guys, why are we suggesting .357 revolvers for this lady? I am assuming with nerve damage to her hands, recoil from ANY .357 is going to take it out of her.

Am I wrong?

Also, for the record, if she has petite hands, you might want to try a Ruger Bearcat. Small, foolproof as any other SA revolver, fun.

[spazzymcgee]

I vote against the Heritage Rough Rider. The grip is significantly larger than standard SAA grips. Also, when I bought mine, it shot 1.5' left and down at 10 yards. Heritage refused to fix it, so I sold it at a serious loss. I'd reccomend something like a Ruger Bearcat or an old .22 H&R, as others have suggested.

[Andrew Wyatt]

I thin a revolver is a bad idea. with a revolver, you have to overcome a spring every time you pull the trigger.

with a semi-auto, you only have to work the action once. if you leave it loaded, and don't screw with it, she really doesn't even have to fully rack the slide ever.


I would consider in order of preference:

1. one of the larger kahrs in 9mm, like the T9 or TP9.

2. one of the mid size kahrs in 9mm.

3. a narrow double stack 9mm like an M&P 9

4. a browning hi power in 9mm

5. a buckmark or ruger mk3

6. any revolver.

Are you wedded to handguns? a pistol caliber carbine like a marlin camp 9 or beretta storm, or a minor caliber rifle like a mini-14 or m-1 carbine may work better.

heck, a 10-22 with a high cap magazine full of velocitors is nothing to sneeze at, either.

anything with a stock is easier to shoot than anything without a stock.

[Mauser lover]

Aren't we talking about a lady's first gun? Shouldn't we stick to .22s? Great for practice, cheap, no real recoil, etc...

My number one choice would be a Ruger Sp-101 in .22. Eight shots, double action, small frame, just not a really light weight gun, not really heavy, but not light either.

Choice #2 would be a Heritage arms Rough Rider.

Choice #3 is another ruger, either a single six full size, or the smaller bearcat.

None of these are cheap, the Heritage is pretty inexpensive, but by no means cheap in quality. The only one that you will spend a lot on is a Sp-101, and that is still way cheaper than a S&W. If you want to get a used single six, those can be acquired pretty easily.

[Confederate]

Guys, why are we suggesting .357 revolvers for this lady? I am assuming with nerve damage to her hands, recoil from ANY .357 is going to take it out of her.
Some .357s are lightweight, like the LCRs. A .357 LCR is still lightweight, but just a little heavier than the .38 version. Thus, a light .357 will be a better platform than a .38 Special (if .38s will be shot in both).

Also, for the record, if she has petite hands, you might want to try a Ruger Bearcat. Small, foolproof as any other SA revolver, fun.
There are only two ways pistols will be viable defense platforms. First, if they pack a great deal of stopping power, and two, if, in the case of .22LRs, they can discharge a greater volume of rounds. A .357 mag, for example, is great because one or two rounds can bring a determined assailant. A Mark II or III .22LR, however, is effective because it can discharge 11 rounds in about six seconds with modest practice. That many rounds in the chest and head also ought to bring down a fairly determined assailant. But a cock-bang, cock-bang, cock-bang is unlikely to be effective.

A Ruger Bearcat can drop someone with one shot if delivered between the eyes or in the nasal cavity; however, keeping in mind that the woman has weak hands, cocking a gun, repositioning it and shooting it again just isn't viable, in my view.

----------------------

A Beretta 950 .25ACP is a weak round, but it delivers a rapid volume of shots, 10 in all. Recoil is minimal and despite all the naysayers, if I had a nickel for all the news stories I've read of people who not only stopped people using the little Berettas, but killed them! I used to collect these stories and I'd make a notation when the little .25s would kill in defense and when they would injure. After a year, I was amazed by the number of "kills" I'd collected! How was it possible? I also collected reports of criminals who had used the Berettas and the Ravens to kill each other. (Naturally the Berettas topped just about everything else in that caliber because of its magazine capacity and its rapid fire ability. The Ravens had only 6-7 shots if one was kept in the chamber. Some Ravens would only work reliably if they had five rounds in the magazine, and one was rarely ever kept in the chamber because they were striker fired pistols.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh198/jriler/Beretta950_1.jpg

Beretta 950 .25ACP

The Beretta 21A .22LR pocket pistol is not a good pistol for an elderly woman to use because it tends to be fussy. The Beretta 70S, mentioned above, is in my view perfect for the OP. It's extremely reliable, has very rapid discharge, is lightweight and can be cocked and locked like a Colt 1911. It may be a little pricey, but how much is a person's life worth?
.

[BullRunBear]

Uh, guys.... The OP stated the gun would be to learn the basics of firearms handling and for fun. Specifically NOT for defense. And if she can cock his 1860 Colt cap and ball, she can likely deal with any revolver fired single action that she weild comfortably.

[spazzymcgee]

I'm with BullRunBear on this one. I don't even think some of you guys read the OP's requirements.

[MedWheeler]

^ x3.. I was about to add this myself ^

[doc2rn]

I would wonder about the HK .22's with the front cocking lever...or even a black widow by NAA?

[MCgunner]

The SR22 is light weight and quite easy to rack the slide for the weak of hands. It's very reliable, not picky about ammo, and quite accurate. I'd highly recommend it to any DA revolvers other than perhaps an old M17 Smith and Wesson K22 Masterpiece, the only .22 revolver I know with a decent DA trigger pull.

I'd suggest the SR22 be stored condition 3 with safety off and she rack the slide in case it's needed. She could even store it without the mag so that the mag interlock safety would prevent any possibility of it going off if she's worried about grandkids or such. But, this would leave it in cocked and unlocked condition, SA trigger first shot, if she needed the gun and if she couldn't handle the DA pull. It's not THAT bad, but for a weak handed individual, DA can be a problem on any firearm. The Ruger SR22 gives her options, though. With a DA revolver, she might not even be able to get the hammer back.

http://i44.tinypic.com/xt07o.jpg

[FlaBoy]

Wow guys, I really appreciate the overwhelming responses. I ended up getting her a Heritage Rough Rider in .22 LR at the gun show saturday. NIB, out the door for 145 cash money. I think it'll be perfect. Fits her hands just fine, and she can work the hammer with her off hand easy as pie. Works a lot better for her than my old Ruger Mk I. And for all the many people who were suggesting compact .380 and 9mm (or .357?!?!) guns for her, you must have missed the part where I mentioned she was an old lady with nerve damage and some weakness in her hands, and that I was looking for a .22 for range/plinking only, not defensive use (no, I'm not dumb enough to get her a single-action .22 with a 6+ inch barrel as her concealed carry piece). She's only shot guns once before, is still not very comfortable handling them, much less carrying one daily. I hope she gets to that point, but for now I just want to teach her the basics of shooting and safety. Again, thanks for all the suggestions!

[GEM]

Sounds like a Ruger Bearcat. Very nice size and easy to use. I use it with beginners and it's just fine as a starter and plinker.

About the 38/357 issue - as stated above - folks didn't read the OP before starting the stopping power rant fest.

Here's the point, which many forget as they want to be manly - most gun uses are deterrent. No shots. If any shot is fired and hits the BG it further reduces the crime going to completion. These probabilities dwarf the probability of the zombie, meth, biker, psycho taking many rounds and coming for you.

Thus, if SD was an issue - the 22 puts your far ahead of the game than NO gun because medical conditions limit yous.

I'm surprised no one suggested 12 GAUGE - NUFF SAID!!

The Bearcat would be great.

As far as the tip up 22s like the Taurus and Beretta - they can be extremely finicky and who wants to play around with loads, etc. Get something that works.

[Mauser lover]

Good choice FlaBoy. Also, good job in introducing someone into the world of shooting sports.

[BCRider]

Congrats on finding a suitable plinker that fit in the budget.

.... I mentioned she was an old lady with nerve damage and some weakness in her hands.....

Seems to me that the one big effect of this is that you and your mom can get out and enjoy some time together doing something that makes you both smile. One of the best things that folks in their later years can have is a hobby that makes them smile at the idea of getting up to face another day. If your mom enjoys the shooting then she has a new hobby. And for her and you it's a double bonus that you can enjoy the time at the range together.

My own mother was great to visit but she didn't really do anything other than just get up and pass through the day. I tried to get her into motorcycle racing but it never seemed like a great idea to her.... :D

[firesky101]

Good job FlaBoy, If she likes it that is all that matters. Now you need to get her some bricks to get started:D

[MCgunner]

Mm, well, if she's good with cocking the hammer, that should be a fun gun for her for a not so budget breaking price. :D

[chanroc]

Another vote for the Ruger Single Six. My Mom, who is in her late sixties, loves her's! She has no problem loading it and unloading it. And while she shot my Glock 19 well, she could not rack the slide. Anyway, she can give me a run for the money with the Ruger.