[gamestalker]

It happened to me at night, and the response from the plain clothes investigator was a demanding order to open up. There had just been a shooting next door in the neighbors front yard that had nothing to do with me. A good hour after the shooting, and after EMT's and marked LE had left the area, this plain clothes investigator showed up at my door, after climbing my locked and gated fence, I might add. I responded by asking him for his name and badge # and then verified it with 911. Why would LE of all agencies expect a person to violate common sense, and then scrutinize me for using good common sense? I then refused to let him, and the other 2 LEO's who were hiding in the shadows until I opened the door, to search my home, and demanded they leave my property while I was still on the 911 line. I might have allowed a search if they had approached me with some common respect and not stomped all over my constitutional rights?

Oh and when they rushed me at my door and and removed and inspected my firearm. Once they had determined it hadn't been recently fired, they litterally tossed it and the ammunition on my living room floor. BTW, I informed him I was wearing a firearm before opening the door to him.
GS

[CharlieDeltaJuliet]

Man that sucks. I would have a little face to face with his CO.

[scaatylobo]

I was LEO and I would not have opened the door.

I would at very least demand a supervisor at the scene.

Or request a search warrant,or both.

[hso]

File a complaint.

Call the news.

[gunnysmith]

I would at very least demand a supervisor at the scene.

Best answer^

[JohnBT]

"and not stomped all over my constitutional rights?"

I missed the part where they stomped.

Maybe they should have mailed you an engraved invitation asking for your cooperation at your earliest convenience.

I know, I know, don't snitch. Oops, I mean don't talk to the cops. Dern worthless good for nothing cops. No wonder they never solve any crimes. Right?

[Texan Scott]

I would like everyone to stop, take a deep breath, and consider how DIFFERENTLY this issue - and question - would be handled by police, media, and public if the person asking/ complaining were a woman living alone.
If any of the cops had a wife or girlfriend in the same situation, I suspect they would have wanted her to do EXACTLY what this guy did, and NO ONE would fault her for doing so, because they know that the danger involved can be very real. Their lack of courtesy aside, their obvious attitude toward any citizen exercising their legal rights, common sense, or concern for their own safety is appaling. This warrants, at the very least, a complaint to the local chief of police and city councilperson.

[T Bran]

As with most things in life it is not what you ask it is how you ask for it. I for one understand being pissed with how you were treated in your own home after being cooperative. It is the reason that they do not get more help from the general public and they do themselves a disservice. Please do not lump all LEOs into one category as with any trade there are some who really want to help and do a good job. But we dont hear about those we only hear about the ones that make the whole profession look bad.
Get in contact with his supervisor and complain.
T

[blarby]

I only noticed because this was you, GS.

I'd call the sup, and if you were so inclined, the media.

The whole fence hopping thing was substantially out of line.

Maybe call Arpaio... he seems to like the press lately....... He is the head sheriff, afterall :)

Sorry this happened to you.

[stickhauler]

I'm all for cooperating with law enforcement, and tend to believe the majority of LEO's are damned good people doing a really tough job. But if the events went like the OP says it did, I'd be pissed too!

Now I'm sure some folks think the cops should be able to use whatever storm trooper methods they like. The last I knew, the police had no right to enter your home and search it without permission from the owner, or a signed search warrant. And that has to list exactly what they are looking for.

Police officers would enjoy a lot better reactions from civilians if not for the few who choose to take the law into their own hands!

[longstandingletdown]

to op:

Simply put, you were well within your legal rights.

Just remember that your rights become pretty meaningless when the superior force chooses to construe it that way.

Good luck getting the supervisor to speak with you, your best bet, sadly, will be media intervention.

[Owen Sparks]

In my town the police work in three shifts, Adam, Baker and Charlie, and each shift has a captian. I took the trouble to learn who all three are and what time the shifts change. A couple of simple questions: "What shift are you on?" and "Who is your captian?" will expose the phonies.

[NavyLCDR]

"and not stomped all over my constitutional rights?"

I missed the part where they stomped.

Maybe they should have mailed you an engraved invitation asking for your cooperation at your earliest convenience.

I know, I know, don't snitch. Oops, I mean don't talk to the cops. Dern worthless good for nothing cops. No wonder they never solve any crimes. Right?

All I can say is, wow. Really?

Come back with a search warrant, and if you don't have a search warrant get the hell off my property.

The OP did the best he could under the cicumstances, in my opinion. However, in hindsight and now being able to contemplate this, I would have called 911, verified they were police officers and then told 911 dispatcher to tell the officers to get the hell off my property with my front door closed and locked. In no way would I mention anything about guns, nor opened the door any longer than necessary to get the names and badge numbers.

I've had the mysterious knock on my door at 2:30 AM. I had a 3-deadbolt storm door with shatter proof windshield glass on my house at the time. So, I cracked open the inner door and was presented with an LEO identification card. I said just a minute, closed the inner door and placed my gun that was in my hand on the counter next to the door, within reach and opened the inner door again. The officer explained that there was a rash of car burglaries in the area and they were just letting people know to keep watch. I said thank you very much and that was it.

[MedWheeler]

I wasn't there, and did not hear the whole story. You don't say what exactly they told you regarding what they were "searching" for. I can't "get a feel" about whether you thought that he thought you might be a suspect, a witness, or even a potential victim (the suspect entered your home and was holding you or another person in your home at gunpoint.)
It was good that you were able to verify the officer's presence through the 911 center. That is a wise step. Another would be to summon a uniformed officer, in a marked cruiser, to the scene. If you thought you were being treated as anything that made you uncomfortable (such as a suspect), then that person summoned to the scene should be a supervisor.

and then scrutinize me for using good common sense?

You don't say how they "scrutinized you".... (but I'm sure they did.)

stomped all over my constitutional rights

.. or how they did this.

and removed and inspected my firearm. Once they had determined it hadn't been recently fired, they literally tossed it and the ammunition on my living room floor. BTW, I informed him I was wearing a firearm before opening the door to him.

Did they actually forcibly remove it, or was it handed over by you at their request, or somewhere in between? My mindset has me telling any LEO who takes possession of my sidearm that I expect it to be treated as if it were his own, or better. Any deviance from that that can be considered abuse or negligence would get a supervisor called to the scene and/or a complaint filed later. I am former LE myself, and have immense respect for the job, but I do not expect to be treated with anything other than professional respect if I am not a suspect in any crime.
I watched an episode of that show that features female deputies from Broward County, Florida (the show's name escapes me right now) that included a scene involving a lawfully-armed man having pulled his weapon in a SD situation. I understand the gunpoint takedown of him that was performed, but the deputy, once he has laid his weapon on the ground at her request, proceeds to approach him from behind and kick the gun several yards away. That, to me, is unacceptable. If you want to get some distance between me and my gun, then order me to step forward away from it as you follow me from behind. Don't kick my stuff across the asphalt.

[MedWheeler]

NavyLCDR shares:

I've had the mysterious knock on my door at 2:30 AM. I had a 3-deadbolt storm door with shatter proof windshield glass on my house at the time. So, I cracked open the inner door and was presented with an LEO identification card. I said just a minute, closed the inner door and placed my gun that was in my hand on the counter next to the door, within reach and opened the inner door again. The officer explained that there was a rash of car burglaries in the area and they were just letting people know to keep watch.

Wow. My city has an incredible car-burglary problem. Local airwaves and signage all around warn of it. Still, I cannot see a cop going to houses at 2:30 in the morning (or at any time, really) to wake people up and let them know "to keep watch."

[HankB]

I then refused to let him, and the other 2 LEO's who were hiding in the shadows until I opened the door, to search my home, and demanded they leave my property while I was still on the 911 line. . . . Oh and when they rushed me at my door and and removed and inspected my firearm. Once they had determined it hadn't been recently fired, they litterally tossed it and the ammunition on my living room floor. So they FORCED their way in without a warrant?

Without a warrant or clear probable cause, that sounds like a home invasion to me, which could have ended very badly for them in many places.

[j1]

Do not call but make an appointment to see his CO and let him know how you were treated. There is no sense bitchin' if you are not doing it to the right people.

[Averageman]

I'm amazed that after a shooting next door someone would be stupid enough to climb over a fence to get on your property in "Plain Clothes", I wonder how that would have worked out if someone already nervous about the previous shooting would have fired on the Plain Clothesman?
I haven't lived in Az in a number of years, but I would bet had the LEO been engaged with one leg on your property and one on your fence he would have essentially been in the wrong from the time he put his leg over and foot on to your property.
I don't think this is a smart way to conduct business.
I would see the Shift Supervisor and the Sheriff.
I don't think I would have opened the door and I damn sure wouldn't let you in without a warrent.

[clem]

Gamestalker,

I'm a retired Arizona LEO. File a complaint over that crap!

[joecil]

Well I am part owner and operator of a self storage facility. Now in this business we often get police want to search various spaces that tenants rent. Now I have always asked for and gotten a search warrant in my hand before letting them enter. I have had them all show up from the local police, FBI, DEA, Treasury, US Marshals etc over the years in this business. Never had a problem in my private home though did once have a neighbor shot and killed in his front yard though we was in bed asleep at the time and didn't hear it till they woke us by knocking on the door. They never came in but stayed on the yard where we talked. They left quickly when they figured out we not only didn't see it we didn't even hear it.

[Cosmoline]

If you're going to talk to them in the first place (always dangerous without counsel), you can step outside yourself and close AND LOCK your front door behind you. Locks have enormous legal significance if you use them. If you don't, who's to say who agreed to what.

If they were in your living room, you screwed up.

[armoredman]

You did right as well as you could at the time, but I, like all Monday Morning Quarterbacks, wouldn't have let them in at all without a warrant or probable cause, nor would I have identified myself as armed without reason in my own home. Calling 911, excellent job! The officers in question should be disciplined as Phoenix and other Arizona towns have had many more than one home invasion conducted by people claiming to be plainclothes police. Want in? Send a uniform in a squad car with a properly executed warrant, and I'll make coffee and hold the door for ya!

[Havok7416]

I have had to meet the police at the door in the middle of the night and I made sure NOT to mention ANYTHING about weapons in their presence. What I did was find a safe spot off to the side for my weapon, then open the door. In your case, if someone had just gotten shot next door I'm sure mentioning a weapon set the cops off in all kinds of ways -- not that I approve of what they did in this case. If it were me I'd have someone's hide tacked to your local chief's door!:mad:

[Deanimator]

Last year I had an upstairs neighbor who played his "music" and television loud enough to rattle the paintings on the wall, and at 3:00am to boot.

One evening, there was a knock on my door. I asked who it was. "Police" was the reply. I asked them what they wanted and they told me that _I_ had called, to which I replied "nope". They asked me if I were "x", and I replied "nope".

I never even opened the door to them, and without a warrant, never would.

Months later, I found out from the maintenance guy across the hall that he'd called them. Apparently they got the apartment number wrong. (Go figure. At least they didn't shoot me.)

Unless _I_ call them, the cops are NEVER getting consent to enter, much less to search.

Where I'm from, if you're the victim of a home invasion burglary, the perpetrators just might be cops, REAL ones.

Most of the time when I've called the cops for something, they've been useless at best. I certainly want no part of them when I haven't.

[Deanimator]

"and not stomped all over my constitutional rights?"

I missed the part where they stomped.
Wouldn't that be the part where they forcibly entered his home without his permission, RAS, PC, a warrant or exigent circumstances?

Or do you believe that the police should be able to bust in on you any time they get a mind to?

Maybe they should have mailed you an engraved invitation asking for your cooperation at your earliest convenience.
Maybe they should have gotten a warrant.

I know, I know, don't snitch. Oops, I mean don't talk to the cops. Dern worthless good for nothing cops. No wonder they never solve any crimes. Right?
One reason they don't solve crimes is that they sometimes act in ways that forfeit any claim they might conceivably have to the trust or respect of the average citizen.

If you act in ways no better than those of private sector criminals, you can hardly complain when you're treated like private sector criminals. I don't volunteer information about one set of criminals to another set of criminals. I avoid criminals altogether.

[justice06rr]

If "LEO" is knocking on my door, I would immediately ask for Identification. I would not let them in without any search warrant or reasonable cause.

For the OP, you should definitely file a formal complaint to the Dept

[Scout Dork]

Boy this is hard, it is a no win situation.

You need a new door mat
http://lh6.googleusercontent.com/public/a4Ms45r6G-KzjWwcPCzEjq2D9o2z4jE4szBglXcClO4UVgZ-DfabucoBHrAVYcEowJGV8HdeGKBGT5NgKTWlhzwVLy5AFznSInkyUB1kEYUa_yYlvzFGUNPwc55l1Kz7p9I0XxoD5VCNNANv-CIDINC4BeL9JMk-0W0JveUZMQ9woIDkZQE4oKunTXM1fx41sw

[shiftyer1]

Once I verified who they were I probably would have stepped outside and tried to be helpful....if I could. I don't believe I would have surrendered my firearm if it could be avoided. I have had police in my home for questioning and things like that in the past and have firearms in plain view, it's never even been commented on.

If I understand your situation correctly I think you probably need to file a complaint.

Not all officers are jerks, but most can get that way pretty quick depending on your attitude.

Several years ago my dog was going nuts out back, long story short I went to check it out with a shotgun?. I basically ended up challenging a cop with my gun in my hands. Everything ended well, I got an apology and went back inside. I'm pretty sure I posted the story here somewhere so I kept it short and sweet.

It sounds like in your case they thought the bad guy was still hideing in the neighborhood, still no excuse for rudeness!!!