11yr old shoots home invader in neck with .22lr


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Centurian22
May 12, 2012, 09:29 PM
Came across this video / article and had to post it and re-open the can of worms and fuel the fire of the .22lr as a home defense possibility.

https://www.hdaa.com/hdaa/11-year-old-shoots-home-invader-in-the-neck/

No I am not saying its perfect, or advisable or ideal or anything like that, but if it's all you've got, or all you can easily get (for whatever reason financial or otherwise) it can and will work.

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MedWheeler
May 12, 2012, 09:44 PM
No I am not saying its perfect, or advisable or ideal or anything like that, but if it's all you've got, or all you can easily get (for whatever reason financial or otherwise) it can and will work.

.. or will generally work. I completely agree, no one is going to stick around when a presumed-unarmed victim-to-be suddenly opens fire with even a 22LR.
I disagree with the reporter's opening statement that the boy "took justice into his own hands". It should have been phrased as more like "took responsibility for the safety of himself and his family". I believe he fired in defense of those he loved, not to dispense justice or exact revenge. Kudos to him, and to those who conditioned him to be strong, responsible, and courageous like that.

hso
May 12, 2012, 10:00 PM
Firstly, one anecdote is not data supporting any position.

Secondly, fighting mindset and skill set are more important than toolset, but it is a fool that doesn't use the best tools available. If the only tool you have is a .22 lr, sadly that's what you have to defend yourself with and you had better put your heart and soul into defending yourself.

BUT if you have a choice of self defense tools, it is a foolish choice.

You can kill with a .22 lr, but it is a very poor attack stopper compared to other choices. It is has been shown over and over again that the most powerful caliber a given individual can accurately shoot is their best choice when the goal is to stop an attack. Choosing a .22 lr if you can accurately shoot a more powerful caliber flies in the face of the facts. Why don't the police use .22s? Obvious.

Centurian22
May 12, 2012, 10:02 PM
Very well put Med. "Justice" can be a much more subjective term than "responsibility for safety of self and loved ones". Unfortunate this is the creative literary license that mainstream media loves to use to boost ratings.

hso
May 12, 2012, 10:07 PM
If the intent of the thread is as claimed, to discuss the .22lr as a home defense roung, let's not get distracted by an 11 year old news story or the thread won't last.

Home defense? You can buy a used single shot .22lr for $150, but you can also buy a used 410 single shot for the same price and have a more effective attack stopper.

Choosing a .22lr when you're able to shoot something else is not a reasonable choice.

Skribs
May 12, 2012, 10:08 PM
Just because something can stop doesn't mean it reliably will. Murphy hates me.

dubya450
May 12, 2012, 11:04 PM
Everyone's heard it over and over and its true. In a self defense situation any gun is better than no gun!

MedWheeler
May 12, 2012, 11:09 PM
Why don't the police use .22s? Obvious.


While I still do not promote the "lowly" .22 as the best choice for self-defense, there is a stark difference in the duty of a LEO and that of a person lawfully armed only for self-defense. The lawfully-armed-citizen (LAC) is not expected to run toward the sound of chaos and mayhem, nor is he sworn to actually try to get "up close and personal" with those who would work hard to make his wife and kids grieve. The LEO is indeed duty-bound to do all of the above. If he has to fire his weapon, it may well be at greater ranges not typical of the LAC's SD range, and may also be through barrier material (such as a car door or window) not typically present in private SD situations.
The person who chooses to shoot it out with a LEO usually stays until the end. The person who accosts a LAC (and only does so because he does not know his would-be victim is armed) will almost invariably turn and flee, ceasing to be a further threat, if the LAC is able to produce armed resistance.
I am a former LEO. I carry greater than a .22, but I do not carry all the hardware as a LAC that I did as a duty cop. I don't know any who do.
For purposes of this discussion, LACs are not police.

The 22LR may not be the best tool for defense for most of us, but the reasons it is not have nothing to do with the duties of law enforcement and military personnel.

JTHunter
May 13, 2012, 01:12 AM
MedWheeler - there are two situations where the perps probably will NOT retreat. Those are when the perps are so high on drugs they are either not cognizant of what they are doing or feel themselves invincible OR where they are already "nuts" mentally (not drug induced).

MrDig
May 13, 2012, 01:29 AM
I think it was more the mindset than the round. This 11 yr old boy wounded took the safety of his family into his hands and faced down armed perpetrators with all that he had available to him. I say Bravo to the boy and still ask how is the fact that he used a 22lr relevant to his will and determination? I say the round is of no consequence and his will is that is all there is in the end really.

bobby68
May 13, 2012, 02:05 AM
I subscribe to the armed citizen podcast to learn the various situations that people actually defend themselves:

1. One is 3 thugs who invade a family, beating 'dad' and bullying/scaring wife and kids. With a little cooperation between mom and dad, dad is given their 22 rifle and starts nailing bad guys, chasing them out to their getaway car.

My favorite line,' the police find all three in a house nearby SUFFERING from their wounds,' and even the woman getaway driver was somehow injured. Its a single account.

2. There are many accounts where the bad guy does not just go away at the sight of a gun.

bobby68
May 13, 2012, 02:29 AM
I subscribe to the armed citizen podcast to learn the various situations that people actually defend themselves:

1. One is 3 thugs who invade a family, beating 'dad' and bullying/scaring wife and kids. With a little cooperation between mom and dad, dad is given their 22 rifle and starts nailing bad guys, chasing them out to their getaway car.

My favorite line,' the police find all three in a house nearby SUFFERING from their wounds,' and even the woman getaway driver was somehow injured. Its a single account.

2. There are many accounts where the bad guy does not just go away at the sight of a gun.

Double Naught Spy
May 13, 2012, 02:32 AM
You can kill with a .22 lr, but it is a very poor attack stopper compared to other choices. It is has been shown over and over again that the most powerful caliber a given individual can accurately shoot is their best choice when the goal is to stop an attack. Choosing a .22 lr if you can accurately shoot a more powerful caliber flies in the face of the facts.

Yep, and this case has the twist that the 11 year old shot the intruder in the neck and stopping the invasion, but his shot was not a shot aimed at an intruder. It was a blind shot through the door. As such, there would be even less reason to believe a .22 would be an effective stopper when the threat is unseen.

Why don't the police use .22s? Obvious.

The 22LR may not be the best tool for defense for most of us, but the reasons it is not have nothing to do with the duties of law enforcement and military personnel.

Sure they do. If the .22lr isn't a very good stopper/defense round (even poor against most centerfire pistol calibers), then for the police to choose the .22lr would mean reducing the cops' battle effectiveness that would then mean making it harder for the cop to carry out some of their duties.

Sambo82
May 13, 2012, 04:31 AM
I subscribe to the armed citizen podcast to learn the various situations that people actually defend themselves

thearmedcitizen is a great youtube channel. There are plenty of examples on there of little old ladies with .22 revolvers killing/running off criminals from their home. No, I wouldn't choose it if I happen to have something with more stopping power, but IMO it's a robust round that doesn't get the respect it deserves.

1911Tuner
May 13, 2012, 06:37 AM
While a .22 rifle isn't what I'd choose in such a situation, if it's all that's available, that's just how it is. Given my 'druthers, I wouldn't pick any pistol for home defense, but sometimes a shotgun isn't well-suited to the arena...such as entering and finding an intruder or wakened to find him in the room with you...and a pistol is all you've got.

A self-loading .22 rifle can be pretty wicked in the hands of a motivated and determined defender if he's cold enough to shoot for the face and neck. Don't be too quick to discount it. As weak as it is...it's still better than 911 and a prayer.

Gun Geezer
May 13, 2012, 06:45 AM
Nice thing about my 22 pistol: It'll dump 10 rounds into a 4" circle at 10-yards in just under 2 seconds. Using good ammo, it has zero jams and misfires.

The lack of recoil is a wonderfull thing for speedy accuracy.

I have other options, but I'd use it if needed and i think it'd do just fine for me.

Tempest 455
May 13, 2012, 07:55 AM
Bottom line is he used what he had and is alive because of it.

Old Fuff
May 13, 2012, 12:40 PM
As is often the case, mainstream media leaves out important details which prevent coming up with a clear opinion.

That said, I have a feeling that the .22 rifle was owned and kept for reasons other then home defense. Target shooting or small game hunting being examples. In an emergency with no other choice it was pressed into service, and the boy did exceptionally well.

If the parents had deliberately picked the .22 as a defensive weapon they made a mistake in that there are better options, but they may not have been aware of what they were.

Most home invasion victims don't frequent firearms forums. :uhoh:

watergun
May 13, 2012, 01:07 PM
Maybe the .22 caliber is light with a 40 gr bullet but a semi-auto rifle or pistol can spit out 10 rounds in a few seconds. Ten times 40 is 400 gr of hot lead hitting the target. Who wouldn't run from that? There are probably more murders committed with .22 caliber than any other simply because very few people don't have a .22. It all goes back to shot placement. A shot to the heart or head with a .22 will stop most attacks.

ldhulk
May 13, 2012, 05:37 PM
A hit with a .22 beats a miss with a .45, and the fact is that for the civilian who rarely if ever practices, his chance of scoring one or several hits with a .22 rifle is a lot higher than with a large caliber handgun. Sure, I have a 12 gauge as my go-to HD gun, but I wouldn't sneer at a .22 in the hands of a detirmined defender.

theicemanmpls
May 13, 2012, 07:12 PM
I bought a Beretta 21A .22lr pistol. I needed a pocket pistol for pocket carry.

The .380 or .32 would fit the bill just fine. I have one in the safe.

Who ever said carry the largest caliber you can comfortably shoot with, was a pistol salesman.

LEO's carry large duty weapons of a large caliber with high tech bullets to put down bad people. They are going in harms way.

If I am going in harms way, and I have to load for bear, I would question why I am going. If the neighborhood is that bad I simply won't go.

I have problems concealing pistols. Pocket carry is for me.

The problem is, I load what I shoot most, .38, 9mm, 30/30, .223 .45LC, .45 acp

I didn't want to invest in the components for .32 or .380.

I have been called stubborn, and a few other things I won't mention.

I try to practice monthly.

My logic was, I need to put at least 500 rounds through the pistol to break it in. I have done that with the 21A. Why spend huge $$$ breaking in a .380, or .32.

My aiming points at 21 feet are the head, and the boy parts. I can get really good triple taps, Mozambique style with that 21A.

Unless one can do this consistently, I would recommend going to large ar caliber.

Why do I need a larger caliber for pocket carry?

I am looking a shoulder holster for the .32 PPK in the safe. I am thinking under the leather Harley vest. If I lay the bike down, thats another thread.

heeler
May 13, 2012, 07:33 PM
Oh,...Mission Texas I see.
Well Mission is right near the Rio Grande River and Mexico.
Lot's of bad things are going on in this region.
So this obviously does not surprise me at all.
Thumbs up to the brave boy with the little .22 that could.

NMGonzo
May 13, 2012, 08:25 PM
Little guy has a lot of fight in him.

Hossfly68
May 13, 2012, 08:28 PM
I like a bigger caliber, but I'll stand right up and say that i am not man enough to stare down the barrel of a .22 and laugh like it's a fly swatter. Pain and holes in the body are what they are and I don't want either! Congrats to the pint sized hero for defending himself!

shiftyer1
May 13, 2012, 11:12 PM
I've been told a rolled up newspaper can be a deadly weapon if prepared and used correctly, i'll stick with a ballbat.

I'm a .22 lover and have used them for lots of things in my life, choosing one as a primary defensive weapon ain't gonna happen. If it's what I have at the time ok i'll use it.

A .22 has been protecting my chickens for years, they'll all kill em dead, the difference is that you need a little more luck and a steadier hand with a .22. A poor shot with, say a .38 is a big difference when compared to a poor shot from a .22lr.

Tommygunn
May 13, 2012, 11:20 PM
I see a kid finally found a way to be a "pain in the neck" in a good way!:D:evil:

shiftyer1
May 13, 2012, 11:23 PM
I just realized I have a wasp nest outside that is fairly agressive, anyone who is man enough to walk up a pick it off the tree and complete some kind of simple task can convince me most wouldn't run from a .22 attack!

gym
May 13, 2012, 11:30 PM
You use whatever is available, For me it's a couple of semi auto hi-cap pistols, in 9, or 45, There is always a tin with 3 mags for each caliber on my nightstand. That should do the trick.

ThorinNNY
May 13, 2012, 11:35 PM
Nice to see the good folks win ,regardless of whether dumb luck or skill was the determining factor. Hopefully, he will join the NRA and acquire the skills. He`s already proved he`s got the grit!

Ryanxia
May 14, 2012, 08:56 AM
Very cool, good for the kid.

ZCORR Jay
May 14, 2012, 01:19 PM
It's nice to see the media didn't totally demonize the kid for using a gun. Saying he took justice into his own hands is ridiculous.

JTHunter
May 18, 2012, 12:45 AM
Considering how thin most interior doors are, a 40 grain LRN or even a 36 gr. HP should be able to punch through with no trouble.
A "neck" is unprotected flesh with major blood vessels having no bony protection. At the distance the perp was from this young man, either bullet would still be moving fast enough to do some serious damage.
Granted, shooting through the door doesn't allow placement of the shots, but he could have also shot the guy in the eye, causing incredible pain and panic.
The fact that he was able to do as much as he did even after being wounded himself says a lot about this young man's character and his parent's training.

Double Naught Spy
May 18, 2012, 11:30 AM
It's nice to see the media didn't totally demonize the kid for using a gun.

Interesting though is the comparison we have here of a the wounded kid being heroic when shooting through the door without a known target or being able to actually aim, but when we have talked about adults shooting through doors, it is generally considered a bad a idea, a violation of safety rules, risk to bystanders, etc.

76shuvlinoff
May 18, 2012, 12:32 PM
If I am pinned down taking fire through a door then I will likely be firing back through that same door.

This story makes me all warm and tingly. Of course I would opt for more firepower if I had two weapons side by side to choose from but in that situation I don't think I'd feel real undergunned with my Marlin 60 and a full tube of CCI minimags.

Deltaboy
May 19, 2012, 01:45 PM
Good shot! Horray for the kid he is determined young one.

jimbo555
May 20, 2012, 05:48 PM
A good dog will keep most home invaders looking elsewhere!

langenc
May 20, 2012, 11:17 PM
Any foolk that argues with someone w/ gun has either taken too many pills, smoked/imjected something or drank too much booze.

When one hears a "BOOM" how in the hexx does he know what sized barrel the noise came from?

I recall reading a story about a couple of those LEOs that write for a gun mag that had been out shooting jackrabbits w/ 44's. On the way home they rec call for a holdup. They came upon the perp and drew down on him. He stopped immediately. When asked why they stopped so quiclky one said "I never saw a gunbarrel with that big of a hole in it."

Hossfly68
May 30, 2012, 10:47 PM
When one hears a "BOOM" how in the hexx does he know what sized barrel the noise came from?


"that is an Ak47; the preferred weapon of your enemy! It has a very distintive sound when fired at you!"

Couldn't help it. That quote from Clint Eastwood just popped into my head

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