Black Hills Ammunition FTF


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blarby
May 13, 2012, 12:16 PM
I know this isn't exactly "reloading", but since I bought the ammo for brass anyways, I figured why not.

Besides...we don't have a Factory Ammo section :)


Anyways.

Bought 5 boxes of Black Hills Match 168gr BTHP for breaking in my new rifle, and to get some useful brass.

While the brass is good, i've had two FTF now....one in each box ( yes, ditchy... I couldn't help myself and went this morning) that I've used.

WTH ? at $30 a box of twenty, you'd expect them all to fire...especially match ammo. Its a new Ruger....the firing pin is most definitely doing its job as evidenced by the primers on all the rounds fired. They weren't "High Primers" in this factory ammo....they are crimped in DEEP. And wouldn't fire even after multiple attempts.

Just a heads up.... and wondering if anyone has an EMAIL addy for BH customer service.... I'd surely like to let them know....even though as an ammo manuf. they probably have this happen all the time. Mebbe not. I'd like to let them know regardless.


Thanks for readin, and have a great Sunday.

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GRUMPA
May 13, 2012, 01:02 PM
I have to wonder on more than 1 point when it comes to assembled cartridges. For 1 thing Black Hills (as I'm sure everyone knows) is reliant on someone else for primers. I ordered 10k primers awhile back with a 15% FTF, and I know it's not the fault of what it was fired from either.

A tin foil hat type person would wonder if when they would call to complain about it there info isn't going somewhere it shouldn't.

Also you need to consider that the companies that make the primers are in all likelihood running the facilities at above 100% to try and keep up with demand, and in doing so quality is suffering.

After getting all the FTF from my last purchase of primers I'm wondering if I should get more. Will I or wont I have as many FTF as I did from the last order?

And since I see alot of the "LEAD FREE" type primers what are they using instead of Lead Styphnate? Don't know if it's a chemical issue, bad quality, or something else.

243winxb
May 13, 2012, 01:29 PM
Its a new Ruger Clean the bolt & firing pin channel. Then measure the ammo's head to datum line. Compare to fired brass. Headspace problem?

blarby
May 13, 2012, 01:46 PM
Its not the rifle, win. I'm not sure how else I could explain this. The fired and unfired primers have the exact same deep strike.

gamestalker
May 13, 2012, 05:41 PM
Which is one of the primary reasons I started reloading several decades ago. I've not had one single FTF since I began reloading, no BS seriously! I use CCI primers 99.9% of the time with an occasional box of Winchester primers when CCI isn't on the shelf. I also use a priming die, rather than priming by feel or touch. I simply adjust the die to seat at the depth desired, and prime away.
GS

ReloaderFred
May 13, 2012, 07:00 PM
"And since I see alot of the "LEAD FREE" type primers what are they using instead of Lead Styphnate? Don't know if it's a chemical issue, bad quality, or something else."

Lead free, or non-toxic, primers use a compound called Diazodinitrophenol, or DDNP for short. It has a higher brisance than Lead Styphnate does, hence all the experimenting with different size primers, flash holes and crimping.... Off topic, but the question was asked.

Here is the link to the contact information for Black Hills Ammunition: http://www.black-hills.com/consumers_contact_us.php They are really nice people, too.

Hope this helps.

Fred

Hondo 60
May 13, 2012, 10:19 PM
Sounds like Black Hills got some bad primers.
Contact them & I'd bet a bundle they'll ask for those rounds & reimburse you 10 fold.

I had an issue with some Fiocchi ammo a while back.
Believe me, they WAY more than made up for the problem.

blarby
May 14, 2012, 01:37 AM
Ya, I go that link too, fred.

I guess I'm going to just have to call them....they apparently don't "do" email.

243winxb
May 14, 2012, 10:24 AM
The fired and unfired primers have the exact same deep strike. The velocity of the pin is whats important, not the amount of protrusion.

blarby
May 14, 2012, 06:48 PM
Had another one today. Kinda glad I only bought 5 boxes.

The primer strike on this one was just as deep as any of the others that fired.

Given that the energy required to impact the primer and create a "dent" of similar depth would be the mass of the pin times velocity squared... its certainly not changing with any significant difference.

There were some that fired that had noticeably lighter strikes, and some that were heavier... these seemed to be right in the "middle-ish"

Well, almost through 'em, it'll be good brass at any rate- which is what I got 'em for in the first place !

blarby
May 14, 2012, 06:51 PM
I did find a lot # ! its kinda faint !

1618161040

JimStC
May 14, 2012, 08:53 PM
"Carl Bullock" <Carl@black-hills.com>,

blarby
May 14, 2012, 09:31 PM
thanks !

blarby
May 14, 2012, 10:16 PM
Email sent, and I made a phone call earlier- but I guess Carl isn't in today :)

GLOOB
May 15, 2012, 10:48 AM
What kind of Brass does Blackhills use? Is it new?

The last .223 I bought was from from Ace Hardware, of all places. $160-something for 500, no shipping. About the same price as buying "once-fired" brass that isn't really once-fired and loading it. I wasn't sure if Ace was really the place when it comes to ammo. But the brass was all LC, 2011 and 2012, so I know it wasn't sitting on the shelf for very long.

ReloaderFred
May 15, 2012, 11:47 AM
Black Hills makes two kinds of ammunition. Their original business was selling reloads, which was a spin off of the starting business of selling reloading supplies. The loaded ammunition business is now separate from the wholesale supply selling business.

They still sell reloaded ammunition, but they also sell new ammunition. The new ammunition uses brass with their headstamp, "BHA", on it. They use different vendors to make the brass, depending on supply and availability. Their match brass and ammunition has a very good reputation, and they load for both the military shooting teams and snipers.

Hope this helps.

Fred

MtnCreek
May 15, 2012, 01:17 PM
Black Hills makes two kinds of ammunition. Their original business was selling reloads, which was a spin off of the starting business of selling reloading supplies. The loaded ammunition business is now separate from the wholesale supply selling business.

Is that Black Hills Shooters Supply or is that all together different people? I assume it's not the same folks because BHSS doesn't sell Black Hills Ammo.

ReloaderFred
May 15, 2012, 06:41 PM
It all started as Black Hills Shooter's Supply, but when they started the reloading business both aspects got too large, so they split the ammunition business off. It was all started by the same people, but the reloading supply business is so different from the actual loaded ammunition business, they decided it was in their best interest to form two different companies.

Hope this helps.

Fred

blarby
May 15, 2012, 08:17 PM
Not sure if its related or not, but I found the primer pockets in this brass to be very un-uniform in my processing of them.

Some needed almost no depth adjustment to spec- some needed quite a bit, 6 were deeper than my cutter, and I just brushed them out.

Flash holes were good, only a few needed any serious deburring, and all of the holes were very centered.

MtnCreek
May 16, 2012, 09:00 AM
Fred, Thanks for the history. It blows be away BHSS doesn't offer BH ammo. I think the only ammo they offer is Norma. I guess it doesn't matter, both companies seem to have it figured out pretty well.

Blarby, what's the plan on the BH brass? Are you still going to use it? If so, let me know because I have some BHA Match brass I'll send you if you could use it.

blarby
May 16, 2012, 10:11 AM
Heck ya I'm gonna use it. Good .308 is hard to find :D It looks up to snuff, thats for certain.

If you have some you've never loaded before, I'd be more than happy to give it a home !

blarby
May 16, 2012, 05:05 PM
Ok, Carl emailed me back today.

They are sending me a UPS ticket and tag to send the faulty stuff back to them so they can have winchester break 'em down and find out what happened.

I also have specific instructions to shoot the other ones as quickly as I am able, and include any that don't go bang in the package back to them.


Thats pretty neat, actually :D

I'm really surprised they even care ! I guess not all companies are the same. Thats good to know.

JimStC
May 16, 2012, 06:02 PM
Carl is an good customer service rep. I had pressure issues with some 6.5x284and he stepped up after I pushed just a bit.
He did the same regarding the UPS ticket and sent a box so they can figure out the problems. I am fine with the outcome. Offered me a refund or other ammuniton.
Glad you had a good resolution......

blarby
May 16, 2012, 09:09 PM
We aren't resolved yet.

We are much closer than we were on saturday though !

Thanks for the email addy, the phone thing was NOT working !

JimStC
May 17, 2012, 12:43 PM
I'll be real surprised if you don't have the same outcome as me: $ back or new ammo.
Good luck,
Jim

blarby
May 17, 2012, 07:36 PM
Thanks, Jim.

I'll keep everyone posted on what the results are :)

blarby
June 5, 2012, 02:25 PM
Received the call tag from Carl at Black Hills today.

Packed 'em up, and they'll be going out today as well !


FWIW, I've put about 350 rds through this rifle now, and had no other FTF's than with this ammo.

This includes factory loads, these BH loads, and handloads.

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