[Shoot66]

My goal is to obtain maximum accuracy, shooting handguns at distances starting from 50 m up. I shoot 9mm (SIG P210), .357 Mag (Colt Python) and .45 ACP (Dan Wesson). I have been using Lee Precision Dies (carbide) up to date.
I have been wondering whether more expensive/higher quality dies could make a difference.
Yes, I am aware there are many other factors which influence the result much more dramatically than dies, but please, let´s keep this one on dies.
I would appreciate your thinking, still better, experience on this matter. Thank you.

[Shadow 7D]

There is a limit
you could have 99.99% consistent ammo
but your gun don't lock up tight, or you got a case of the wobbles, well....

you have the ammo's consistency (and that's more you than the dies, as even out of what dies can most likely be made to work) the guns inherent accuracy (or lack) and your ability.

I think that there is a give when it comes to hand held guns, where if it was a test barrel locked into a massive rest.... you'll see the ammo's variation up to the limitations of the barrel.

[243winxb]

A 9mm with tapered case may be more accurate using a steel die that retains the taper. Better chamber fit, maybe?? For straighter/less tapered cartridges, a bushing like used in rifle dies would be nice, none available. No more over working the brass & getting a bulge at the base of the bulllet on seating. Its possible to only size the "neck" of a hand gun cartridge & let the case body fire form to the chamber. This i tried in 45 acp, had feeding problems. The revolvers i size just short of the web area using cabide dies. All this may help a match grade, custom handgun? Doing your own testing is the only way to know. :) The 45 acp is more accurate if the end play is reduced by seating lead bullets into the rifling. There is a fine line between go & no go. Best for slow fire only. My COL for the 45 acp is set on the shoulder of the lswc bullets, not the nose.

[ranger335v]

"...been wondering whether more expensive/higher quality dies could make a difference."

Not likely. The important dimensions are specified by SAAMI. They all make their dies to those specifications. Meaning, on average, there is as much variation within a brand as there is between brands.

[Walkalong]

If your dies are loading straight ammo, which is easy to verify, you are good to go and only need to tweak powder choice, charge weight, seating depth, etc.

And practice.... :)

[mdi]

I under stand a past record holder of 1,000 yard competition used a Lee Loader. I think the operator's consistant, repeatable accuracy during reloading is more important than equipment used (basic quality of course). A sloppy reloader using $1,000.00 dies won't produce better ammo than a good reloader using every day, plain Jane equipment.

[Shoot66]

Thank you, for your input, gentlemen. I have been trying my best not to be too sloppy while handloading and practicing. :)

I did hear about the gentleman, a record holder, who allegedly won a national championship shooting ammo handloaded using a Lee Reloader. That for sure makes a point.
On the other hand, I also read a blog by one of our fellows who, after a I think a 357. Mag test, came to a conclusion that his Dilon dies ammo produce groups tighter by .5 to .8 inch (at 25 yards) than his Lee dies. (I am aware there minght have been other factors playing a role too.)

243Win: Thanks for the tips. For this sake I do look for longer 45 ACP cases in order to shorten the headspace and I do seat the boolit out, too. In this neck of the woods RN, FP and TC are considered more accurate than SWC. None the less, I will try your tip on the SWC shoulder. I have a nice H&G#68 type mould by Mihec, which makes beautiful boolits, just deserving to be tested to their full potential.

For sure I will try the “more practice” fix, too. :neener:

Thanks.

[1SOW]

Just my opinion, re dies; The dies work cases. Your LEE dies can do a "near perfect job" on 'one brand' of case with 'one thickness' and 'one length' and 'either new' or ALL once fired without being distorted by the load or the chamber it was fired in.
Though maybe minor differences but maybe not, ANY die set will get different results when any of these conditions vary from case to case.

For optimum die die performance, you have to have consistent case characteristics. Reloading perfection is about constency.
There aint no free lunch.

[GooseGestapo]

It ain't the Lee dies..... It's who's adjusting them....
But then again, dies are just like the guns that fire the ammo, they are "individuals", and may vary from one to another.....
The most significant factor in accuracy is the bullet. Followed by the barrel on the firearm, then the other components. Lastly, you have the dies that you are using to produce the ammo.

Likely, you could do well for the 9mm Sig P210 by ordering a Lee sizer die with a .003" over sized sizer ring. You'll have to call Lee and pay full retail price plus shipping.
I did, and this made a notable improvement in the straitness of the loaded ammo (bullet run-out).. This will allow a tighter fit to the chamber by fired brass. Lastly, adjust the die to only size the neck portion of the case and minimize the sizing of the tapered section just as you would to headspace the cases in a bottle neck rifle cartridge.

The 9mm Lee dies have a carbide ring that sizes the entire case. Even then, you will find that it sizes much easier if you lube the cases with something such as "Pledge" furniture wax. I do this by spraying a light shot of lube in the bottom of a cut-off empty 1lb plastic powder container and scoop up about 100 cases and swirl them around to coat the outside of the case. This alievates getting a lot of lube in the cases.


Most truly accurate handguns will require fitting by a gunsmith and high-end parts such as Briley, Kart, or Bar-Sto barrels. The Sig-P210 is a notable exception. These were hand-built top-end guns to start with. Another notable exception are the 1911's from notable companies such as STI, Springfield Armory-Custom Shop, Kimber, and Smith&Wesson "Performance Center", and such.
With the Colt, and DW you mentioned, it will be the bullets, brass, powder charge, and how you adjust the dies to assemble the ammo. A set of "Competition Dies" to include an "in-line" seater "might" make a difference, but use of the Lee Dies, properly adjusted and used in a single stage press to seat/crimp the bullets has produced match-winning, national record setting ammo for me. But the guns themselves required a bit of tuning. Such as setting the barrels back and recutting the forcing cone on the revolvers, and ensuring that the cylinders were locked up before the hammer drops. The DW if it has the interchangeable barrels, will allow you to reduce the barrel-cylinder gap to approx. 0.003" which gives the best results for me. Tighter than this, and a hot cylinder may start to bind....

Using select brass that is once-fired also makes a big difference. Brass that has been fired 10x or more often will give inconsistent neck tension and accuracy will fall off.
The last thing I'd blame are the dies. Lee makes them cheaper becasue of manufacturing techniques and exterior finish. The inside of the dies are as good as any.

I've loaded ammo with Lee dies for a couple of Sako 75 "Varmint" rifles in .22PPC and 6mmPPC. With good bullets (Euber bench-rest grade, or original Bergers), these rifles would shoot in the "2's", meaning 0.2xx" groups (5-shots @ 100yds). Sinclair custom dies used with an arbor press improved these about 0.005".... maybe... A gust of wind made much, much more difference..... My Rem.M700ADL in .22-250Rem will shoot 0.5" and occasionally better with the bullets determining the accuracy...Loaded with regular Lee full-length sizer die. Bullet seating depth also makes a difference.....

[rfwobbly]

The Lee dies may limit you in one small area. The seating stem only has a single shape. Other more expensive dies come with more features, one of which is a selection of seating stems for the different bullet nose shapes you encounter with 9mm. However, it is worth noting that if you send your bullet to Lee, they will cut you a seating stem that fits your bullet.

Secondly, I would make sure to taper crimp in a separate operation. Lee has a very nice Taper Crimp die they sell separately for $11.

Other than that, using a single brand of brass probably has a greater effect on accuracy than anything else the dies are doing.

[1SOW]

rfwobbly +1
BUT, Lee will sell you a stem custom fit to a bullet sample you send them. Cost was $9

[earplug]

You might be able to find a perfect balance in some dies between chamber size and resizing the brass. Trying to duplicate the benefits of neck sizing only as on a rifle.
You would have to balance this with being able to chamber the reloaded case/round. I don't know of a pistol that has the ability to chamber a maximum case into a minimum chamber, such as a bolt action rifle is able to do.
A perfect bullet seated in a perfect case without deformation of the bullet or case would give consistent head spacing of a rimless cartridge and a concentric fit in the chamber. Weighing each case would help in theory.
I have had good results with oversize lead bullets in revolvers. But the odd thick case or slightly oversize bullet won't allow me to chamber some reloads.
I used to mess around with trimming revolver brass, weighing each powder charge for maximum accuracy.
Time is better spent on dry firing and range practice.

[Shoot66]

Gentlemen,
I sincerely thank you all for your contributions. Once again it was proved what immense collective knowledge is available here, on THR. For free!
Thanks for pointing out to me the possibilities to custom-order Lee Precision (over)sizers and specific nose-shape seating stems. I have had knowledge of most the other pointers above, although I have no first-hand experience in the science and woodoo of handloading for benchrest shooting :)
When starting this thread I hoped for obtaining the experts opinion and tapping their experience in this matter. As an addition I also got a warm feeling as I was not hushed, for asking the question in relation to handguns.
You all have my sincere respect.

[ranger335v]

"I understand a past record holder of 1,000 yard competition used a Lee Loader. "

Yeah, but it wasn't with a handgun! :D

Reloading skill, shooting skill and accuracy limits of the weapon are the major controlling factors in handgun accuracy, not so much the dies, press, etc.