Businesses that prohibit CCW

Do we have a list somewhere here on THR of businesses that ban CCW? That would be very handy to have stickied to know where to avoid when carrying instead of having to look for the sign on every business.

For patrons or employees?

Both, but more importantly to me (and most I would imagine) being patrons. I second this recommendation for such a list.

I assume you're either talking a single national policy listing or a butt-load of regional lists.

Obviously regional businesses would not be of much use for everyone on here,, but also couldn't hurt. Maybe a list for each state would be in order. But my intent was for a list of national or at least multi-state businesses that a majority would be familiar with. And my intent was also more geared toward patrons, I assume mosy employees would know their business' CCW policy.

Taco Cabana. Bank of America.

The list would be far to large and confusing to be useful at all.

Post #6 is a perfect example. The member does not list the state, county, city, nothing; just two business names. Put together a fifty page thread of posts like that and you have absolutely nothing useful whatsoever.

Then there are states like my own where a business has no legal power to prohibit the public from carrying upon their property.

Best thing would be for everyone to individually educate themselves on laws and norms of their location and surrounding areas.

In theory, it sounds like a good idea. In practice, accurately listing and confirming information on the scale of what your talking about is a nightmare of epic proportions.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Here and there I've seen local lists, usually on CCW related forums or local gun rights organizations. They can be hard to find and incomplete though.

I'm pretty lucky in that the only business in my area that I visit on a semi-regular basis that is smart enough to post a clearly visible sign (Buffalo Wild Wings) is a business I wouldn't want to carry in anyways, since I gotta have a beer with my wings. They're the one exception I make to not supporting anti-carry businesses.

Yea Buffallo Wild Wings gets an exception from me too. I could care less really. Its there right to do it. Its mine to decide if I am willing to accept the great risk of no having a gun for an hour. But after careful study I found that they happily serve millions of wings a year and only a couple of people may have died who would have otherwised lived if they could have had their guns. So I risked it and it was worth it.

Same goes for Taco Cabana.

This is a job for state/regional level groups.
For example, Buckeye Firearms Association runs a list in Ohio and they still find it a challenge to keep current/relevant.

How about you just keep an eye out for metal detectors and don't worry about it otherwise, Hunter125?

Try here http://friendorfoe.us/ If everyone will participate it will grow quickly and be more useful.

Both, but more importantly to me (and most I would imagine) being patrons. I second this recommendation for such a list.

Actually, if you are truly concerned about 2A rights, both should be of equal concern. Of course, if you opt not to do business with companies that don't support letting their employees be armed, or patrons, you can start off by avoiding virtually all the major corporations and likely most of the minor ones as well. Many companies have such policies but do not insist that their franchise retail stories/eateries have the same policies, which is good, but to use a franchise where the parent corporation has such policies, you are still supporting the corporation.

We have a list like friend or foe for Texas. As noted by TimboKhan, there are some real issues with building maintaining, verifying, and updating such listings. I have seen where folks have even gotten into debates over whether or not a particular location was posted, still posted, etc. Just because a business is posted now does not mean it will be in the future and just because it isn't posted now doesn't mean it will still be unposted in the future.

That list would be longer than Bill clinton's list of affairs! It would vary by state, and by county or city in some areas, plus here in Indiana the Walmart policy varies by store. :banghead:

The key word in CCW is concealed!;)

LD

I simply do not frequent these types of business~! ;)

There's probably an app for that.. :D

There's probably an app for that..

Yeahhhh.....no.

Wow, definitely didn't think this thread would go this route. I just figured people could mention places they had run into that prohibited CCW, let others know about it. I didn't mean to keep a comprehensive list, just a heads up for fellow THR members.

Michigan Coalition for Responsible Gun Owners maintains a list for Michigan:

http://www.mcrgo.org/mcrgo/d_no_gun_signs.asp

If I see the sign, I don't patronize the business.
But I don't really look for the signs. I can't think of a single business in my area where I've seen one.
Plausible Deniability

Vigilance is key, and that's as simple as it's going to be, until their little victories are erased...

it's just too locale-centric to have a huge database created on a forum really.

Wow, definitely didn't think this thread would go this route. I just figured people could mention places they had run into that prohibited CCW, let others know about it. I didn't mean to keep a comprehensive list, just a heads up for fellow THR members.

Isn't this a moot point for you, living in Illinois?

LD

In Texas, the gun owner keep out signs have to be specific according to the law. If they are not, the store can go pound sand. They can tell you personally to get out but if you are carring concealed, how are they to know......chris3

I appreciate this thread. What this thread has taught me is Buffalo Wild Wings is a place I will add to my list of do not eats. They have a right to post a sign and I have a right to take my wallet and my gun elsewhere. Applebees is another that I will never grace the doors of. Kay Jewelers is another.

Yeah I could sneak my gun in and no one would know. I would know and for me that's enough. I am a grown American male. I am not playing games of hide and seek. I carry a gun to defend myself and my family I will not jeapordize our safety to spend money with a place that doesnt support my rights or my views. I applaud them for stating their beliefs and I respect that.

http://friendorfoe.us Still needs more entries but it's a start. I'm no programmer but someone may be able to make a smartphone app that interfaces the web page with the gps for easy search or entry.

One strategy I follow is, if a store prohibits the lawful carrying of a firearm I not only cease to shop there but I inform the owner as to why he will no longer get my business, nor will he get the business of the many ccw friends I have in the community. You might be surprised to learn how many businesses in my relatively small town have taken their "no handgun" signs down after learning why it's a stupid practice that garners only negative consequences. One establishment I am proud to say substituted the "no handgun" sign with one that states: "Please leave ski mask at front desk before shopping".

One strategy I follow is, if a store prohibits the lawful carrying of a firearm I not only cease to shop there but I inform the owner as to why he will no longer get my business, nor will he get the business of the many ccw friends I have in the community.

Here's a handy printable card you can give to the offending business:

http://www.countrysurvival.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2010/06/nogunnomoney.pdf

There is a front and a back. If you print the front, then turn the paper around and print the back, you have a nice business card to leave with the cashier.

Isn't this a moot point for you, living in Illinois?

LD

I hold out of state CCW licenses that allow me to carry in other states, but I am also still holding out for IL CCW. Maybe I'm naive.

I appreciate this thread. What this thread has taught me is Buffalo Wild Wings is a place I will add to my list of do not eats. They have a right to post a sign and I have a right to take my wallet and my gun elsewhere. Applebees is another that I will never grace the doors of. Kay Jewelers is another.
I've been to a number of Buffalo Wild Wings in Oklahoma and Texas and I've never noticed a "No Firearms" sign. It may be up the franchiser.

One strategy I follow is, if a store prohibits the lawful carrying of a firearm I not only cease to shop there but I inform the owner as to why he will no longer get my business, nor will he get the business of the many ccw friends I have in the community.

That is a very nice way to confirm that the sign is getting the intended result.

The sign better be big and in my face because I'm not looking for one. Truth be told, if I had already parked and walked up to the front, I'm going in. The worst the could happen is they ask me to leave and my wife is embarrassed.

Not carrying much elsewhere, South Dakota law is pretty simple to follow...

The permit is valid throughout South Dakota except in any licensed on-sale malt beverage or alcoholic beverage establishment that derives over one-half of its total income from the sale of malt or alcoholic beverages (SDCL 23-7-8.1); any county courthouse as defined in SDCL 22-14-22; or any elementary or secondary schools (SDCL 13-32-7).
as long as one can remember a few very basic guidelines, ccw is pretty easy in SD

Dave,

SD is no different from many other states in that a business can post a "no guns" sign and if you are asked to leave, you must leave, even if such signs have no force of law in that state. It is a list of those businesses that the OP was aksing about.

From Handgunlaw.us for South Dakota (http://handgunlaw.us/states/southdakota.pdf):

“No Firearm” signs in South Dakota have no force of law unless they are posted on property that is specifically mentioned in State Law as being off limits to those with a Permit/License to Carry. If you are in a place not specifically mentioned in the law that is posted and they ask you to leave, you must leave. If you refuse to leave then you are breaking the law and can be charged. Even if the property is not posted and you are asked to leave you must leave. Always be aware of the possibility that responding Police Officers who may have been called without your knowledge and may not know the laws on trespass etc. could arrest you even if you are within the law.

If yer concealed, how they gonna know??

I hold out of state CCW licenses that allow me to carry in other states, but I am also still holding out for IL CCW. Maybe I'm naive.

Naive is an understatement. Always has been the worst place to live for freedom concerning guns, and probably wont change. Fwiw I think a list is a great idea but it will be very hard to keep current and comprehensive.

I know the whole 'concealed means concealed' deal, but I would rather not break the law unknowingly. Also I would like to know where not to patronize.

In addition to the complexities of compiling such a database, a responsible person looks out for there self and does not rely on a website so that they don't have to look for the sign. Policies are always changing, if you are truly trying to follow the law a website might not be up to date.

F-111-john,
I LOVE that file you offered! Going to print up a bunch tonight.

Yeah I could sneak my gun in and no one would know. I would know and for me that's enough. I am a grown American male. I am not playing games of hide and seek. I carry a gun to defend myself and my family I will not jeapordize our safety to spend money with a place that doesnt support my rights or my views. I applaud them for stating their beliefs and I respect that.

And I applaud you for plainly stating the very basic idea of democracy. Unfortunately many don't seem to get it (I am not talking about anyone in this thread, just making a broad statement). If I got a dollar for every time I heard / read someone say "It's a free country, if you don't like something here move some place else !", I'd be driving a shiny new Beamer. The beauty of a truly free country is, if we don't like something, we have every right to try and change it - via peaceful lawful means - without having to move. But we also need to respect the fact that other people have the same rights and opposing views.

Boycotting the business won't do much good in a place where most people don't carry. It may have just the opposite effect, as it is in essence a hostile act and will provoke a knee jerk reaction from Mr General Public. Education and friendly attitude, on the other hand, go long way. I used to support gun control and thought that making MI a "shall issue" state was a bad idea, and having a very passionate and very in-your-face-"2A-above-all-you-don't-know-sh#t" gun nut at my old work didn't help. It wasn't until I met quite a few polite, friendly, responsible, respectful gun owners, and realized that years went by and there weren't any battles in the streets, that I started to change my mind.

I know the whole 'concealed means concealed' deal, but I would rather not break the law unknowingly. Also I would like to know where not to patronize.

Actually you wouldn't be breaking the law unless you were in a prohibited location by your state (bar, school, Federal building, etc), past that it's just a sign in someone's window. If they confront you, just leave. No harm, no foul.

LD

I don't see where any type of list would be practical. There are to many variances. Other posters have said Bank of America and Applebees. Neither of them in my area are posted. But Costco, Sears, and Goodwill are posted for no firearms. And Cabela's is posted for no firearms/CCW holders excepted.

From what I have seen posted and on a number of forums, I believe that it's pretty much determined by the local manager or franchise holder and not as a corporate policy.

Olive garden, regonial. Its in the training video. Cant keep it in ur own car. You could be fired on the spot. It never stopped me. Specially when i wouls get out at 1:30 in the morning. Bappy i havekt worked there in 10 years

The stores that choose to post signs make me chuckle. I am sure the local union of gang bangers has a rule that all members must safely store their firearms before entering an establishment that has posted.

I only ccw. I only carry in buildings where l am not inviolation. I can drink all I want, while ccw, just as long as I don't exceed .04. The posted signs don't mean much. I carry anyway, and they never know. I continue to shop at the establishments. If the price is right, and the quality is there, why not?

Boycot them because their managment is stupid? Nah. Someone else can do so. I ain't got time for that.

Once, I showed the handle of my .38 to a couple of saggers who were scaring the owner of a chinese takeout. It looked like they were going to strong arm the contents of the cash drawer from the owner The estabishment WAS posted. No more. The owner asked if I could train him. He now has a permit. I always get extra food when I order take out now.

As a business owner my goal is to make a profit. My experience has taught me that most armed robbers only want they can take quickly, usually cash, without any resistance. My employees keep the till counted down reducing the amount of cash in the drawer. My policy is to give the robber whatever he demands.

So while you are in my store shopping packing heat and a armed robbery goes down. For whatever reason you decide to intervene and draw your roscoe. Now I have two strangers in my store pointing guns and yelling. Who is who? Robbers are known to work in teams. I am pretty sure neither one is cop, no badges flashed.

Someone gets itchy and the shooting starts. I'm armed and my concern is to protect myself and my employees. So who do I engage first? Since the robber is standing in front of me the rounds you are firing are coming in my direction. Greater threat is that bullet headed at me.

So I engage you and being lucky or unlucky I take you out with well placed round. The robber decides to flee and is gone.

So what is the tally? Shot up store, you are in the hospital plugged into tubes or worse in the morgue, million dollars of bad publicity.

The event the next day is front page in the newspaper, TV camera crews out front, radio coverage about the big shoot out.

Oh the cash in the drawer was $40.00 which the robber made off if you had not drawn your gun.

In the news the next day couple of lines about a robber making off with a undetermined amount of cash.

What is the greater cost?

Just because you think you have the right to pack a firearm anyway you damn well please does not give you the right to shoot up my business, endangering my employees, customers and myself. How I choose to resist a crime is my choice not yours and if you intervene you assume the awesome responsibility of your actions.

So while you are in my store shopping packing heat and a armed robbery goes down. For whatever reason you decide to intervene and draw your roscoe. Now I have two strangers in my store pointing guns and yelling. Who is who? Robbers are known to work in teams.

Okay, let me help you. The CCW good Sam won't be pointing his/her gun at you or your people, but at the robber.

Just because you think you have the right to pack a firearm anyway you damn well please does not give you the right to shoot up my business, endangering my employees, customers and myself. How I choose to resist a crime is my choice not yours and if you intervene you assume the awesome responsibility of your actions.

Big words, but whether you allow concealed carry or not, anyone in your business does have the right to self defense. If you selfishly think for a second that your customers are not in danger during a robbery of your business, you are very wrong.

So while you are in my store shopping packing heat

No, I "obey" the laws so I won't "pack heat" in a store that has a stupid sign. Many of us in le term a place of business that forbids law-abiding citizens the right to self-defense and yet allows the armed criminal free entry-and you do that by definition with an "open" sign- a "killing field". The armed madman can read too, and with a stupid sign on the door (be it a school, a church or your place of business), he knows with absolute certainty that none of the patrons will be armed (after all, they are the law-abiding ones) and he now is assured that he can kill at will.

My experience has taught me that most armed robbers only want they can take quickly, usually cash, without any resistance. My employees keep the till counted down reducing the amount of cash in the drawer. My policy is to give the robber whatever he demands.

Really? And in your armed robbery "experiences", you can be certain that the robber(s) high on meth aren't worried about surviving witnesses and it won't be your store where employees and customers alike are herded into a back room, duct-taped and shot execution style? All of the owners of the places where these kinds of witness elimination killings have happened at have entertained the very same mind-set you apparently have. All of them, especially those that trusted in a stupid sign.

As a business owner my goal is to make a profit.

Not from me you won't. Nor from any of the many like-minded friends I have. Not one red cent. This is America and you can hang any sign you please on your establishment's door, even a stupid sign. And, because it's America, I can choose to spend my hard-earned money at any place I please. And it won't be at a shop that hangs a sign on the door that it hopes criminals will heed (when, by definition, they won't) and knows that law-abiding folks will. The perfect killing field storm.

I agree swampwolf

Not all of us are gun welding maniacs that act like robocop. I pack to defend my life, my wife and my daughter. Is a meth addicted rops a store while im in it. No way am i gettig between him and a cash drawer. I refuse to interact unless he starts his rage towards me. And i also refuse to do any product buying from bsa1. Or anyone else with the mind set that all ccw holders are reckless

Okay, let me help you. The CCW good Sam won't be pointing his/her gun at you or your people, but at the robber.

And the robber is standing a few feet in front of me so Good Sam gun will be pointed in my direction. And it is common for robbers to operate in teams.

Big words, but whether you allow concealed carry or not, anyone in your business does have the right to self defense. If you selfishly think for a second that your customers are not in danger during a robbery of your business, you are very wrong.

Interesting legal point. Is a business owner liable if they don't allow concealed carry? On the other hand is the business owner liabile for the actions of good Sam by allowing guns into the shop? Either way there is lawyer in the water circling for the kill.

I agree that armed robberies are dangerous. Evidence supports that fact that most robberies want in and out as quick as possible. Of course there is the crack head/meth addict that can cause things to go south in a hurry.

The point I am making is this is the attitude of most businesses. Loss of $40.00 is cheaper than the publicity and loss of business from a gunfight. This is also the advice of most police departments.

I'll be honest and admit to being a coward. I avoid shipping at stores that are in certain parts of town, certain hours after dark, customers and layout of the store. I also believe in retreating whenever possible. So if I was in the above situation I would be looking for the back door. I lived long enough to know I have nothing to prove and have seen bodies in morgue of people who thought they had something to prove.

It's a liability issue.

If a business doesn't allow weapons, and some customers get shot by a criminal, I am sure it's very easy for this business owner to defend himself in court, should it ever go to the court. You're generally not responsible for the criminal behavior of complete strangers.

If, however, a law-abiding citizen shoots an innocent bystander during a confrontation with the said criminals, in a business that does allow firearms inside, I can see how this business could be held liable for creating the favorable conditions that led to such shooting. Now if the business disallows firearms, it has a way out - "hey, we don't allow guns inside, this guy broke our policy".

Not saying it's right or wrong. Just the way it is.

I think it is more than that. As a business owner I have 24 employees working for me. They rely on the wages I pay them to make the house/rent payment, food, car payments, pay the utility bills and so on.

So following the shootout by good Sam I can expect a lot of negative publicity, loss of business from nervous former customers, boycott by the NAACP and likely a big lawsuit. All of this takes it toll and I go out of business. Now good Sams actions has forced me out of business and 24 employees out of work, not to mention the effect on their spouses and children. So good Sam has not only changed the life of the BG but also the lives of the business owner, all of the employees and likely any customers.

I know several police officers that have had gunshots fired at them by minority youths and did not return gunfire. They felt that due to the negative publicity from shooting the perp, the investigations by Internal Affair, the D.A., State Attorney General, the Feds for civil rights violations. lawsuits, possible criminal charges it just wasn't worth it. There is a lesson somewhere here.

The sign better be big and in my face because I'm not looking for one.

Yup ... when the costco shooting happened in nevada I went out of my way to look for the sign in my local costco.

To my surprise, there was none to be found.

Well, at least for Virginia,
http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html (http://www.vcdl.org/static/gue.html)

This may be of assistance to a Texas CHL holder.
http://texas3006.com/

You know I'm always going to follow the law and I'm always going to be carrying a sidearm. Obviously that means conflict.... therefore I hardly ever enter a business that prohibits sidearm carry. But on those very rare occasions that I do I'll always and I mean always enter that establishment with an empty holster and magazine carrier prominently visible. They want to make a statement fine...I get to make mine as well. I want 'em to know just exactly who they are discriminating against and if they cannot figure out why they don't see this customer as often as they used to then they have a real market analysis problem; but it is really their problem.. not mine.

As a business owner my goal is to make a profit. My experience has taught me that most armed robbers only want they can take quickly, usually cash, without any resistance. My employees keep the till counted down reducing the amount of cash in the drawer. My policy is to give the robber whatever he demands.

So while you are in my store shopping packing heat and a armed robbery goes down. For whatever reason you decide to intervene and draw your roscoe. Now I have two strangers in my store pointing guns and yelling. Who is who? Robbers are known to work in teams. I am pretty sure neither one is cop, no badges flashed.

Someone gets itchy and the shooting starts. I'm armed and my concern is to protect myself and my employees. So who do I engage first? Since the robber is standing in front of me the rounds you are firing are coming in my direction. Greater threat is that bullet headed at me.

So I engage you and being lucky or unlucky I take you out with well placed round. The robber decides to flee and is gone.

So what is the tally? Shot up store, you are in the hospital plugged into tubes or worse in the morgue, million dollars of bad publicity.

The event the next day is front page in the newspaper, TV camera crews out front, radio coverage about the big shoot out.

Oh the cash in the drawer was $40.00 which the robber made off if you had not drawn your gun.

In the news the next day couple of lines about a robber making off with a undetermined amount of cash.

What is the greater cost?

Just because you think you have the right to pack a firearm anyway you damn well please does not give you the right to shoot up my business, endangering my employees, customers and myself. How I choose to resist a crime is my choice not yours and if you intervene you assume the awesome responsibility of your actions.

So just to clarify, you're the only one allowed to carry in your establishment? If that's the case, you should be ready to convince me that you're capable of defending myself and my family in the event of an armed confrontation, since you've neutered my ability to do so.

LD

And the robber is standing a few feet in front of me so Good Sam gun will be pointed in my direction. And it is common for robbers to operate in teams.

Wow, you just don't get it. The Good Sam will have his/her gun pointed at the robber and likely will be giving commands to the robber. Robbers typically don't do that to their partners.

I agree that armed robberies are dangerous. Evidence supports that fact that most robberies want in and out as quick as possible. Of course there is the crack head/meth addict that can cause things to go south in a hurry.

The point I am making is this is the attitude of most businesses. Loss of $40.00 is cheaper than the publicity and loss of business from a gunfight. This is also the advice of most police departments.

No doubt that compliance works in the vast majority of the time. The source for this was back around 2000, but in about 13% of the cases as I recall, injury or death still resulted despite compliance. If I had a 1 in 8 chance of winning the lottery, I would play every time. Those are good odds for winning the lottery, but not so good when it comes to the health and well being of yourself, employees, or customers.

Yes, it is the advice of most police departments. Why do you think that is? It is for several reasons. They are worried about the wrong people getting shot by well intentioned owners/managers/employess. They are worried about their own officers rolling up on the scene and getting shot by owners/managers/employees. They are worried about their officers rolling up on the scene and mistakenly shooting owners/managers/employees.

I understand the suggestions of law enforcement, but chances are they are anywhere from 4-15 minutes away from arriving on scene at your business during such a crisis. Those are averages. Some will get their quickly and some will take a really long time. A few years ago, Dallas was quite proud of getting officer response times down below 10 minutes for their Priority 1 calls (robbery in progress, shooting in progress, rape in progress, etc.).

http://apbweb.com/featured-articles/1188-response-times-city-to-city.html
http://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/shots-ring-out-but-why-bother-calling-police-132115243.html
http://www.voiceofsandiego.org/data-drive/article_a12d37b4-6345-11e1-9597-001871e3ce6c.html

The police mean well, but considering that there is very little chance that they will be present during the robbery of your business, do you really think your safety is their #1 consideration?

I know several police officers that have had gunshots fired at them by minority youths and did not return gunfire. They felt that due to the negative publicity from shooting the perp, the investigations by Internal Affair, the D.A., State Attorney General, the Feds for civil rights violations. lawsuits, possible criminal charges it just wasn't worth it. There is a lesson somewhere here.

Yeah, the lesson there is that somebody is pulling your leg. The reason why they didn't return fire would not be for those reasons. You are saying that their claim is that they opted to not actively defend themselves because administrative concerns? Really?

These cops were worried about bad publicity? I seriously doubt it.

And to think that you know several cops who have been shot at by youths who didn't return fire for those reasons. So after the cops were shot at, they just continued on down the road? It would be silly for them to attempt to pursue their shooters given that they might be put into a position yet again where they would be shot at and they would not be willing to return fire. Just what metropolitan area are you in?

I'll be honest and admit to being a coward. I avoid shipping at stores that are in certain parts of town, certain hours after dark, customers and layout of the store. I also believe in retreating whenever possible. So if I was in the above situation I would be looking for the back door. I lived long enough to know I have nothing to prove and have seen bodies in morgue of people who thought they had something to prove.

Never forget that Bill Clinton stated on public tv that he never had sex with Monica Lewinsky. Then what was the BJ for?

Never forget that Bill Clinton stated on public tv that he never had sex with Monica Lewinsky. Then what was the BJ for?
While I enjoy this subject as most men do, IMO, it don't belong on THR.