range


PDA






floydster
May 14, 2012, 09:02 PM
The gun range I have been going to for the last 15 years are having some new ridiculous changes, this range has been grand fathered in for the last 50 years--the city made the owner put in an all new baffle sysytem--no blue sky showing on the pistol range.
Today i went to shoot and was informed I was not allowed to carry my concealed gun to the range even tho I have my permit with me--all guns must be unloaded and in your range bag, I mean I can carry in Wal Mart but not on my own range which I have been a member for over 15 years.
The city is puting pressure on the range to get it shut down--the owner has already spent $ 15,000 on attorney fees, plus $100,000 on the baffle system.
I am pissed beyond all piss-a-tivity as other members are also.
Thoughts??

Thanks, Floyd

If you enjoyed reading about "range" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
foghornl
May 14, 2012, 09:21 PM
You need to vote a bunch of the "city council" {Insert very low road language here} out of office.

Hacker15E
May 14, 2012, 09:23 PM
Or simply have pro-shooting range people run for City Council.

J-Bar
May 14, 2012, 09:57 PM
It's not clear to me that the new policy against concealed carry at the range originates with the city council or with the range owner. I guess the range owner can set any rules he wishes.

In any case, if shooters don't use the range, then the antishooters win.

I guess you have to decide which battle you want to fight.

BK
May 14, 2012, 10:01 PM
Would you rather have an open gun range with no blue sky in view, or no range at all? Rather have an open gun range where you aren't allowed to carry concealed, or no range at all? Look on the bright side.

TennJed
May 14, 2012, 11:08 PM
do what you can to vote the trouble makers out of office and what you can to keep the business owner employed

FROGO207
May 15, 2012, 12:14 AM
As the way I find it done around here you get elected to then further your own political agenda. Time to become politically active IMHO.:D Then take turns to keep a majority in the council made up of members from the range.:evil:

MrDig
May 15, 2012, 01:04 AM
look in here there is a statute that makes it more difficult to get ranges closed and at some point it is harassment and obstuction of a lawful business.
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/topics/?type=statute&id=S4010146&year=2011

dubya450
May 15, 2012, 01:25 AM
I see you're also from mn. What range is this?

Remllez
May 15, 2012, 08:32 AM
Sounds like the result of a risk assessment by the Owners insurance carrier. I was under the impression that the CC law prohibited municipalities, cities or counties from passing more restrictive law than the state has put in place.

drsfmd
May 15, 2012, 09:55 AM
No blue sky ranges are becoming increasingly common, and I suspect will become near universal in populated areas in the coming years.

It's also increasingly common that clubs are prohibiting the carry of loaded firearms. *YOU* might know what you're doing, but there will be some moron who does something stupid and injures himself or others.

I don't see either of these rules as particularly draconian, and both are in place at many of the clubs I've been to.

floydster
May 15, 2012, 10:37 AM
Thanks guys for the reply's, I would rather not say what range this is at this time.

Will keep you informed.

MrDig
May 15, 2012, 11:06 AM
Floydster, what do you think of a meet and shoot? I started a thread to do that, maybe we could support your range at the same time?
here is the link to the thread I started let me know
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=8164695#post8164695

floydster
May 15, 2012, 02:33 PM
MrDig, replied to your post:)

Floydster

mdauben
May 15, 2012, 06:20 PM
It's also increasingly common that clubs are prohibiting the carry of loaded firearms.
While its not an automatic deal-killer, I would be reluctant to patronize a club or commercial range that enforced such rules. If there were other options available, I would probably take them rather than submit to "disarming" every time I went to the range.

Aside from the contentious 2A issue, I don't like having to unholster, unload, reload and reholster for no good reason. The more you have to handle your gun, the greater the chance for an AD. Good gun handling can reduce the chance, but nothing human is ever 100%.

rodensouth
May 15, 2012, 06:33 PM
Both ranges I frequent have the no loaded guns policy. I'm close friends with the owner of one, and he stated that it was to keep people from drawing from concealment and firing. Apparently he had a couple of ND's related to such activity.

If it stays concealed and untouched everyone is satisfied IMHO, and the range owner agrees.

The "no blue sky" policy is a pain in the keester, but if you notice all the holes in the roof at various ranges that have them in place, you can see the reasoning.

Skribs
May 15, 2012, 07:11 PM
Both ranges I frequent have the no loaded guns policy. I'm close friends with the owner of one, and he stated that it was to keep people from drawing from concealment and firing. Apparently he had a couple of ND's related to such activity.

Oh no, how dare they practice presentation while at the range! The range isn't for practice, its for putting holes in paper! Practice somewhere else!

Seriously, beyond the basic safety rules (such as limits on the power of the load based on the backstop or following the safety rules, hot/cold range, etc), I will NOT go to a range that has silly restrictions. A pro-gun establishment should be pro-carry. A range where I am going to practice what I will do in a self defense situation should let me practice what I will do in self defense, including drawing and rapid fire (many ranges near where I am in WA have a ROF limit of one round per second, which makes practicing follow-up shots with light loads rather pointless).

Stupid rules are why I want to get some land I can dedicate to just going out and shooting with my friends and family, without worrying about a RO or other folks. Just me, my guns, my loved ones, and the right to practice how I see fit.

buck460XVR
May 15, 2012, 07:49 PM
For a range within populated areas, I see no problem with no "blue sky". Just seems to make sense. As for no loaded guns, I figure, their house, their rules. Either you abide by them or go somewhere else.




Stupid rules are why I want to get some land I can dedicate to just going out and shooting with my friends and family, without worrying about a RO or other folks. Just me, my guns, my loved ones, and the right to practice how I see fit.

I'm lucky enough to have that opportunity and yet, even with close friends and family, believe me, sooner or later rules must be made and enforced to keep everyone safe. And yes, regardless of how basic and insignificant they are, someone will whine and call them stupid.

Skribs
May 15, 2012, 07:53 PM
By "stupid" I mean...
-No Rapid Fire, because we never rapid-fire in a real situation.
-No loaded fireams, because holstered guns are dangerous and nobody needs to practice drawing.
-No humanoid targets, because if you shoot at an AK-toting masked man or a target silhouette, you're obviously a serial killer.

Things like safety rules (i.e. point downrange, only put your finger on the trigger when ready to shoot), what to do when the range is hot/cold, etc. are expected in my book.

floydster
May 15, 2012, 09:14 PM
Another rule at this range, you can't shoot at any target larger then a paper plate--8" dia. so all my zommbie targets are still in the reloading room:(

No rapid fire, no double taps, no draw and shoot---you must stand at attention and ask to commence to fire.

RO always on duty:D

drsfmd
May 16, 2012, 10:23 AM
What you dismiss as "stupid" is often the rule because too many people lack common sense.


-No Rapid Fire, because we never rapid-fire in a real situation.

We've got holes in ceilings and in retaining walls because of people who couldn't control their muzzle during rapid fire... so we no longer allow it.

-No loaded fireams, because holstered guns are dangerous and nobody needs to practice drawing.

Does that include the guy who has movie hero fantasies who wants to draw from his double chest rig, sweeping everybody on the range in the process? What about the guy who wants to play gunslinger and shot the bench that was right next to him? The cop who shot himself in the leg? They guy who blew off a toe after he tried to holster his glock with his finger still on the trigger? All real, all reasons why most other safety conscious clubs don't allow drawing from a holster.

-No humanoid targets, because if you shoot at an AK-toting masked man or a target silhouette, you're obviously a serial killer.

No, not a serial killer, but it's bad for the public image of the shooting sports and gives lots of fodder to anti's. If you insist that you need a humanoid shape, shoot IPSC targets or B-27's.

Please don't be myopic about the reasons certain safety rules exist just because you don't like them.

CountryUgly
May 16, 2012, 01:18 PM
Solution....Start a gun club of 20 members or less...Dues are as follows, you must invest an equal portion to purchase land in a local gun friendly area outside of any city limits for a range and the maintainence of said range. This way it'll never be over crowded you can police yourself without worrying about an RO and if a member dies or is accidentally shot at the range his portion is equally divided by the remaining members and the offender that shot him is booted and his portion is equally divided. Last man standing wins. Just make sure you are the youngest and most cautious investor .

Hammerdown77
May 16, 2012, 01:29 PM
Oh no, how dare they practice presentation while at the range! The range isn't for practice, its for putting holes in paper! Practice somewhere else!


One solution I've seen to this that some ranges implement is for range members/visitors to be "holster qualified". In other words, you have proven to the range owners and officers that you safe and competent in drawing and firing from a holster, either open carried or from concealment. I believe this to be a good compromise.

Just because you are safe and observe safe gun handling practices when drawing from a holster, does not mean the other people at the range will. I've seen on several occasions people show up to a range and start drawing and firing from a holster, and they are terribly unsafe. They have their fingers on the trigger before the gun has cleared leather, trying to emulate some speed shooting or something they've seen on YouTube. They re-holster quickly with their striker fired, no-manual-safety pistol into a holster with a thumb break without making sure the strap is not in the way to snag the trigger. And their finger is STILL on the trigger. They sweep themselves and others when re-holstering or when drawing. Those are the folks that the rule is made for. If they are willing to learn some proper gun handling, and take the time to become proficient to the point where they are no longer a danger to themselves and others, then they can be allowed to practice drawing and firing. "Holster qualified," as it were.

I'm all about personal responsibility until someone puts a bullet into me at the range because they don't know how to handle their firearms properly.

Just a thought.

buck460XVR
May 16, 2012, 02:50 PM
What you dismiss as "stupid" is often the rule because too many people lack common sense.

Please don't be myopic about the reasons certain safety rules exist just because you don't like them.


I agree.


If one owns their own land and allows others to shoot on it, they generally know the limitations and the skill level of those shooters. They also have the privilege to tell someone to leave with little or no reason. This is generally not the case in pay-to-shoot ranges or clubs. Not only am I lucky enough to have access to two personal ranges, but the sportsman's club I belong to has a beautiful unsupervised range and other than the month before gun-deer season, it goes practically unused. They only have threes rules. You must be a member, you must clean up after yourself and you are not to shoot the benches. But, surprise, surprise.... even those three simple rules get broken. At that same range, I have witness a guy shooting a hole in his holster while practicing his quick draw. Lucky it was not his leg.....or mine. I also watched as a guy tried to "Cisco Kid" his SA revolver by fanning it as quick as he could. I think one bullet outta six hit the berm. God knows where the other 5 went.

Yeah, rules suck. Most of them are just common sense that most folks with a ounce or two of common sense already abide by. Too bad not everyone falls into that category.

If you enjoyed reading about "range" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!