[Thefabulousfink]

I was told by someone who owns and shoots several belted magnums, that they are less accurate than non-belted catridges. He explained that this was because the rounds headspaced off the belt, and there was usually a bit more tolerance up by the bullet.

My question is would it be feasable to trim the chamber until the round it resting on the shoulder like a non-belted round? And if that is possible why don't all the belted magnums do that?

essentially, what are the issues with accurizing large belted magnums?

[Horsemany]

Do you handload? If so you simply neck size or lightly bump the shoulder back so you are then headspacing the same way a non-belted cartridge does. You will find several belted cartridges that are very accurate. In the 60 and 70 the 7mmRM was used in 1000yd matches. 300Win mag has been used by police and military for long range shooting for decades.

[jmr40]

As long as the tolerences are right belted magnums can be as accurate as anything else. It is just one more thing that must be done right and it is less work to get non belted magnums to shoot accurately. The 300 win mag is belted and it set many long range shooting records. But as good as it is the non belted 300 WSM is proving to be slightly better and is now setting new records. In theory the person who told you this is correct, but for most shooters the difference is pretty small and likely undetectable.

Instead of trying to modify existing rounds it is just much easier to buy and use a rifle and cartridges designed without belts.

[1948CJ2A]

Yea - I've seen this debated on other forums before. Head-spacing off the belt doesn't make a cartridge less accurate than on those which space off the shoulder (assuming the rifle's tolerances are correct). Plus there are some belted mags that are purely cosmetic like the 240 WBY that spaces off the shoulder.

[MachIVshooter]

Non-belted factory ammo, new brass of FL resized brass doesn't really headspace off the shoulder, either. It pretty much lies on the bottom of the chamber and is held by the extractor.

If you want accuracy from any centerfire rifle, the first place to start is keeping the brass fired from that rifle for that rifle and neck-size only. Then it will actually fir the chamber and headspace on the shoulder, belted or not.

[Loosedhorse]

A least two of the belted magnums (.458 Lott and .470 Capstick) utilize a "ghost shoulder", in which the last part of the case near the mouth is actually straight-walled. That should allow the round, even when there is "play" from the taper and belt, to line up consistently concentric when the bolt is closed. (It also provides better retention of the bullet if the cartridge is subjected to heavy recoil.)

I don't think it is difficult to run across a .375 H&H that is better than MOA.

[Thefabulousfink]

Interesting, So the main difference between an accurate belted and non-belted round is the belted cartridge takes a little more work to acheive the same level of tolerance as a non-belted round?

[adelbridge]

I was under the impression that the 7mm rem mag head spaces off the shoulder and the belt is a cosmetic carry over from the parent cartridge.

[Lloyd Smale]

probably the two most accurate bolt rifles ive ever owned were my 700 rem 7mm stw. and one that foolishly i let get away. i model 70 super grade 300 win mag. Anyone that says mag rifles are less accurate are smoking crack. Go to a 1000 yard match some day and see what they can do.

[303tom]

Non-belted factory ammo, new brass of FL resized brass doesn't really headspace off the shoulder, either. It pretty much lies on the bottom of the chamber and is held by the extractor.

If you want accuracy from any centerfire rifle, the first place to start is keeping the brass fired from that rifle for that rifle and neck-size only. Then it will actually fir the chamber and headspace on the shoulder, belted or not.
This is the correct answer..............

[SaxonPig]

Most belted magnums are intended for hunting, not match shooting (although the 300 W is used for long range shooting) so pinpoint accuracy really isn't a mandate. I'm not an engineer but I would think the belt would make better head spacing because it doesn't change with each firing like the shoulder does. Wouldn't it be more consistent?

[jmr40]

Maybe, but almost all belts are purely cosmetic. The first belted magnums were designed to be fired from double rifles and the belts served the same purpose as older rimmed cartridges. Positive extraction. Mainly for marketing purposes for many years anything with magnum in the name had to have a belt, even though it was actually just in the way with bolt action rifles.

Shooters and gunmakers are finally figuring out that the belt is a useless addition to the cartridge and newer magnum rounds are all beltless.

Does not mean they cannot be accurate, it is just one more thing to consider and go wrong.

[H&Hhunter]

that they are less accurate than non-belted catridges

I don't think it is difficult to run across a .375 H&H that is better than MOA.

I've seen very few .375H&H's that weren't MOA rifles many that are better. the .375H&H is one of those "inherently" accurate cartridges. Mine will regularly shoot sub 1/2" groups and so do the majority of them that I've played with. Belts do not negatively affect accuracy. Shooters do.

Here is a 100 yard group from my 20" .375H&H M-70. It'll do this with boring regularity when I am up to the task.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y187/GTAllyn/375tsxgroup.jpg

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The first belted magnums were designed to be fired from double rifles and the belts served the same purpose as older rimmed cartridges.

WHAAATTT?? ^^^^^^^????? I have to take historical exception to this comment.:)

Read this, belts were specifically designed to ease feeding issues in magazine rifle.

http://www.huntnetwork.net/modules/wfsection/html/Ahclassic%20African%20Cartridge%20Pt10.pdf

"The addition of a belt to a rimless cartridge design provided the advantage of allowing for correct headspacing of highly tapered cartridges (an advantage of flanged cartridges) and smooth feeding through magazine rifles (the advantage of rimless cartridges)"

The first commercially successful belted round was the .375H&H designed specifically for a bolt action rifle and is now the parent case for ALL other belted cases except for the .378,416 and .460 Weatherby cases which are based on a belt added (By ole Roy) version of the .416 Rigby.

The .375 version of the H&H that was used in double rifles is the .375 Flanged Nitro Magnum which is a non belted rimmed version of the H&H belted case. Belted rimless cases are shunned by double rifle makers due to the extreme problems they can face with extraction issues. Rims are the preferred case for a double rifle though some belted and non belted cases have been chambered in carious doubles over the years. Rimmed cases are by far and away the most popular in double rifles.

[1858]

I was told by someone who owns and shoots several belted magnums, that they are less accurate than non-belted catridges.

More internet BS!! Two five-shot groups shot with my Krieger barreled Remington 700 chambered in .300 Win Mag and shot prone off a bipod at 100 yards and not off some fancy bench rest. Clearly I ruined the first group but the second group is more than respectable.

http://thr.mcmxi.org/rifles/remington/rem700_300wm_aics/photos/71.6gr_reloder22_208gr_amax.jpg

[LoonWulf]

Achieving accurate results with a belted magnum is no harder then with any other cartridge design.
The issue that I personally have is that usually on first firing shoulders move forward enough to cause excessive stretching at the web. This has been an issue with a couple of factory rifles Ive had. After first firing it wasnt hard to get any of my belted mags to shoot at or under 1". My new procedure is to neck up then back down for a slight crush fit on first firing, as of this week im using cases on the 8th firing of hot 7mm loads. I also anneal every other firing as the only real ware i see is work hardening of the neck and shoulder.

[H&Hhunter]

The issue that I personally have is that usually on first firing shoulders move forward enough to cause excessive stretching at the web.

This is a very real issue and if you full length resize setting your shoulder back with every reloading you will get case head separations at about 6 to 8 reloading due to web stretch.

[Hizzie]

"My _____belted magnum isn't very accurate."

Translation

"I cannot tolerate the recoil and flinch terribly when I shoot my magnum."

[LoonWulf]

I just realized my post was a bit confusing.

I should have clarified that using NEW cases i neck up to a cal or so larger then back down. This provides an small shoulder to hold the case against the bolt face during initial forming.
After first firing they are all neck sized. Ive been cutting one or two up after each firing, and so far ive seen little stretching at the web.

[Kachok]

Belts are just one more big marketing ploy from way back when, they never were good for anything and are just one more thing that can go wrong with accuracy, but we have gotten really good about getting around that hence several professional long range shooters still use belted mags. Why would they when there are all these nefangle WSMs now? Because they already have a wealth of good data and the longer cases give more room to seat long VLD style bullets. I still give a slight edge to the WSMs but for hunting accuracy you would never notice the difference and I do mean NEVER. We are talking a fraction of an inch difference at 1,000yd.

[MtnCreek]

and the longer cases give more room to seat long VLD style bullets.

My biggest gripe w/ the 300wm: Long bullets, short neck & not enough mag length. I wish it was made for a longer mag action that would allow seating the bullet further out.

CAUTION: The following post includes information NOT consistent with currently published load data and is NOT intended to be used. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.

A couple of things the belt is good for: Couple of months ago, a guy here posted where he mistakenly used 300wm ammo in a RUM (non-belted). The belt gave enough dia where the case set in the chamber where it would fire. Just for a little risky fun, I’ve loaded 7mm rm w/ with a 308 bullet and fired it in a 300wm. Cartridge spaced off the belt and fired fine. It blew the shoulder out to fit the wm chamber. No head separation.

[MachIVshooter]

My biggest gripe w/ the 300wm: Long bullets, short neck & not enough mag length. I wish it was made for a longer mag action that would allow seating the bullet further out.

Solution: Remington 700 action. The long action is the magnum action.

[1858]

My biggest gripe w/ the 300wm: Long bullets, short neck & not enough mag length. I wish it was made for a longer mag action that would allow seating the bullet further out.

When I had Krieger put a barrel on THIS (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659133) rifle, I made sure that both the 208gr A-MAX and 220gr SMK would be well into the lands when loaded to AICS magazine length.

[MtnCreek]

Very nice!!! Mine's the plain-jane 700P; stock barrel, xmark and stock. Maybe mine will look like that when it grows up.

Did you send them a dummy rd or give them specs to lands?

Thanks.

[1858]

Did you send them a dummy rd or give them specs to lands?


I measured the internal length of the five AICS magazines that I have and subtracted 0.050" from the shortest magazine to get a maximum C.O.L. for a 208gr A-MAX. I told Krieger that I wanted the 208gr A-MAX ogive (at a minimum) to touch the lands when loaded to the max C.O.L. I knew that if it worked for the 208gr A-MAX it would definitely work for the shorter and "fatter" 220gr SMK. Krieger did the rest ... and did it very well.

[CountryUgly]

"My _____belted magnum isn't very accurate."

Translation

"I cannot tolerate the recoil and flinch terribly when I shoot my magnum."
Just from my personal experiences that I have personally witnessed this has been the case more often than not....the one time it couldn't be blamed on the shooter it turned out to be the cheap scope couldn't hold a zero.

[Kachok]

"My _____belted magnum isn't very accurate."

Translation

"I cannot tolerate the recoil and flinch terribly when I shoot my magnum."
No I have shot belted magnums for years, and my Model 70 7mm Rem Mag just would not shoot for $#!^ but that was not the fault of the caliber but the rifle, and yes my other hunters tried to shoot it as well it never would group any better then 8" at 50 yards no matter what we tried. I could drive tacks with my Rem 700 7mm RM and my Savage 270 WSM so defiantly not a recoil issue.

[SlamFire1]

I remember seeing the picture of shooter and his target which set the 1000 yard long range record, and the cartridge was a 300 Win Mag.

However, I think the belted magnum cases are a very poor design.

It is questionable whether the belt really adds any strength to the case, as there will always be some non belted sidewall, hanging out of the chamber.

The edge of the chamber that transitions between the sidewall and the belt has a sharp edge and I am of the opinion that it would increase sidewall stresses in an overpressure event, making case rupture more likely at that location.

Because base to shoulder length is not controlled, rounds fired in one chamber may stretch something awful when fired in another chamber cut with a different reamer. Or it may be a crunch fit. Bring your hammer.

The only controlled dimension is the belt headspace. The shoulder headspace on these things vary wildly. And that will contribute to short case life. You have to buy special gages to properly measure how much you are setting the shoulder back each time you size. Even so, the first firing may stretch the case so much that you may only get a couple of reloads out of the thing even if you use gages to set up your dies.

And then I have experienced rim lock in my 375 H&H. Several times. The recoil was enough to shuffle the cartridges in the magazine and the belt on the top magazine locked with the rim of the cartridge below it. I had to retract the bolt, push on the cartridge stack to clear the jam.

For that reason particularly, I would not use a belted cartridge against hazardous game. They might eat me before I got a second round off.

Something like the 416 Rigby, no belt, no rim, that is a good design.

[Jdillon]

The difference in headspace in some of the 300 Mag I have loaded between new and fire formed brass is approximately .015 which is a significant amount. Once fired, I will neck size to the point where I need to resize then bump the shoulder approx. .002 which allow the case to space off the shoulder. There is an excellent chapter in the book Precision Shooting Reloading Guide that deals with belted magnums. The biggest problem causing shortened case life is over sizing the brass. This is no different than adjusting proper headspace in non-belted cases. The difference in my 300 WSM between new and fire formed cases is approx. .007 using Norma brass and there is a significant difference in accuracy between new brass and fire formed cases. Obviously, brass sized in this manner should only be fired through that particular rifle.

[Loosedhorse]

However, I think the belted magnum cases are a very poor design.

It is questionable whether the belt really adds any strength to the case,There's about 100 years worth of agreement on its being a good design.

As stated above, its purpose is bolt-action, magazine-fed rifles for dangerous game. The idea of the taper, narrow shoulder and belt was to allow the bolt to close and the rifle to go bang even if the chamber and round were not ideally clean. The belt was for proper headspacing, not strength.

One can argue whether that's really needed; the .375 Ruger, for example, is developing a good reputation, even on dangerous game, despite no belt. And, as you mention, the .416 Rigby has a great reputation.And then I have experienced rim lock in my 375 H&H. Several times. The recoil was enough to shuffle the cartridges in the magazine and the belt on the top magazine locked with the rim of the cartridge below it.This to me sounds more like a problem of magazine-length/cartridge-lenth mismatch rather than of cartridge design. I'd expect a possible problem with rim-belt lock if I'm firing, for example, .458 WM from a .458 Lott magazine; but it shouldn't happen from a .458 WM magazine.They might eat me before I got a second round off.Might happen anyway--make that first shot count! ;):D

[SlamFire1]

This to me sounds more like a problem of magazine-length/cartridge-lenth mismatch rather than of cartridge design.

That is one way to look at it. However with no belt, I don't have to worry about magazine length-cartridge length issues with rimless cartridges.

I also have had rim lock with Nagants even though that mechanism has an interrupter that holds the next cartridge in the stack down, to avoid rim lock. Sometimes you get tolerance stackup on things with fins and rims and they interfere with each other.

Belted cartridges are another example of advertizing induced behavior.

[ladytrapper44]

Thats just not true the guy who said that the belted mags aren't accurate needs his glasses Rx refilled my hubby swears by his & he shoots his a lot

[Art Eatman]

Whee! My post-64 Model 70 in .264 Maggie was sub-MOA from the git-go. It was definitely a fun-gun, but it was a bunch more gun than I needed for hunting CenTex deer. Had I been in bigger-critter country I'd likely still have it. :D

At one time the 7mm RemMag held the record for 1,000-yard competition. It took lots of R&D to beat it out...

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

I had a new Model 70 338 Win Magnum with Leupold Vari-X-III which I had glass bedded myself and had trigger work done by a gunsmith.

I worked up 210g Nosler Partition bullets to an extremely accurate load. At 100 yards, I was putting the bullets nearly in the same hole, every shot (off a solid bench).

To say that belted magnums are in some way not accurate is not an accurate statement to make.

If the person stating that has had problems with belted magnums, that does not mean that every one out there is a poor-shooter.:o

[Zak Smith]

Between a couple buddies and I we've shot out two 7mm RM barrels and one .300 WM barrel in long-range competition and accuracy was excellent until the barrels were toast. By excellent I mean approx 0.5 MOA or better. These were AI rifles.

[hardluk1]

US F-Class shooting team's choice of caliber ??? 7mm rem mag
http://usfclass.com/

[SlamFire1]

US F-Class shooting team's choice of caliber ??? 7mm rem mag

We will see how they do with them. Without a doubt they are looking at Bergers and the highest velocity they can get in 7mm.

I met Mo Defina once at a Long Range match at Camp Perry, Mo is a wealth of shooting history. He mentioned the year someone won Long Range with a 7mm Remington Magnum, and "it set shooting back for several years". I don't know the specifics but the 7mm Rem Mag has not won as many Long Range matches as the 300 Win Mag, at least that is my memory.

If the teams makes a clean sweep this year, and I wish them the best of luck, then 7mm Rem Mag is going to be popular for a while.

[highlander 5]

IIRC didn't the 300 H&H cartridge win a boat load of matches back in the 20s or 30s..
The only 2 cartridges that need a belt are the 300 and 375 H&H as they don't have much of a shoulder. All the modern belted rounds don't need them but they do look pretty on them though. There's also the 8X68 magnum and that has no belt either.
My .02 cents most of the modern magnums burn huge amounts of powder for a relatively small ballistic gain over standard rifle cartridges. I was a magnum fan and decided to go to non magnum to save my shoulder and keep more money in my pocket for reloading supplies.

[Loosedhorse]

Under the "don't have much of a shoulder" label, you may want to include .400 H&H, .416 RM, .450 Marlin, .458 WM, .458 Lott, and .470 Capstick; maybe others.

[SlamFire1]

IIRC didn't the 300 H&H cartridge win a boat load of matches back in the 20s or 30s..

I don't know about a boat load, but there is one that was won, and it was by Ben Comfort. Might have been about 1937.

The gunwriter Charles Askins used to periodically claim the 30-06 was obsolete, basically to rile up the readership, a sort of “Gorgeous George” technique, he would claim that the 30-06 was obsolete as a target round since Ben Comfort won the 1000 yard match with a 300H&H.

This of course was horse hockey, just designed to get attention for Charles Askins.

I don’t know how many long range matches the 300 H&H won, but I remember reading the 30-06 still had the most long range championships.

There were real advantages to using the 30-06, you got free match ammunition from the DCM at matches, you got to shoot your across the course rifle at long range, the recoil was less, the expense was less.

The 300 H&H was only in the more expensive M70, the brass was hideously expensive, you had to roll your own, and according to a grey beard who was there, case life was not that good. The advantage of the 300 H&H was 200 fps more velocity, which is good, but that improvement is almost insignificant compared to going from a 0.473 ballistic coefficient bullet to a 0.674 http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Target%20Bullets.html, which is obviously why the F Class team is trying 7mm’s.

I am certain a number of long range events were won with 300 H&H’s, but once something like the 300 Win Mag came out, which pushed bullets even faster, the 300 H&H faded from long range competition target line.

A 300 H&H pre 64 M70 target rifle is a real collector's item.

[snakeman]

My weatherby 257 shoots a half inch group.

[H&Hhunter]

Belts and short necks have evoked urban legends about accuracy issues. They are myths and nothing more. The belt is an outdated design, no doubt about it. But it doesn't negatively affect accuracy.

[MachIVshooter]

Belts and short necks have evoked urban legends about accuracy issues.

Short case necks in and of themselves don't hinder accuracy, but the inability to play with freebore much does. That, and often a short case neck is the result of shoehorning a cartridge into a shorter action, which also makes it nigh impossible to use long, high BC bullets, and this leads to a reputation for being less accurate. Doesn't mean they can't be in the right rifle, just that most rifles so-chambered cannot realize that potential.

[hardluk1]

slamfire1 Today if you want to win you would be better with one of the short pudgy 6.5mm cartidges. Get 3000 fps out of it with a high SD and they do better than the 7mm and 30's today out to a 1000 yards.

[Clark]

Wimpy loads will work ok reloading for more than one rifle with belted magnum, but any hot loads will expand the case in front of the belt.

So one can either 1) keep buying brass, 2) buy Larry Willis's collet belted magnum die, or 3) segregate the brass to a particular rifle.

Here is a 1908 Brazilian Mauser that were $125 from Century in 2009.
I put on a $33 Rem700 take off barrel from Ebay [back when they sold barrels].

The 7mm Rem Mag reamer wobbled .005" all the way, as I forgot to deburr after parting off the Rem700 threads.

The rifle is ugly and poorly put together by me.

I shot 2 groups with it, here is one and a pic of the $158 belted magnum project. That is a 0.75" 3 shot group at 100 yards with 162 gr SST blems at around 2900 fps.

[Samclrk]

``CLARK``,,Quote``
Wimpy loads will work ok reloading for more than one rifle with belted magnum, but any hot loads will expand the case in front of the belt.```

Have you ever saw a case that DID`NT expand the case in front of the belt.???????Wheather belted or not??Maybe you need to get a better reamer..Have you ever fired or even saw a belted magnum??

[MtnCreek]

Samclrk,
Do a search on Clark's posts. He is the World’s Most Interesting Reloader. On days where I’m feeling particularly smart, I like to read a few of his posts about his reloading experiences. It humbles me. :)

[Clark]

This thread is about belted magnum accuracy, with some morphing into resizing in front of the belt.
I am no expert on accuracy, but I have researched Bart Bobbitt's posts about belted magnums.
A 1982 photo of him shooting at camp Perry, turned into a sketch, was a 1999 poster for Camp Perry. The NRA used that photo for something else.
He is an expert on accuracy, was a top competitor at the national level for many years, and has been posting on the internet about since before the www had a gun forum [rec.guns in the old usenet days].
From decades ago:

I've no idea why Lyman says belted cases last about 3 reloads. I've got
as many as 21 on one batch of cases and full-power loads were used.
.. Belted
cases when new often have their shoulders 25/1000ths of an inch back
from the chamber's shoulder when they are fired. Some stretching may
well occur with the first firing.

Backing off the full-length sizing die will solve the case stretching
problem, but it often exposes another problem. If the belted case is
loaded too hot (too much powder for the load), the case diameter in
front of the belt may not get sized down enough as the base of the die
doesn't touch it. That may prevent the case from easily chambering
in the normal, out-of-round chamber. So, to solve this problem, you
must screw the die down. But that sets the shoulder back too far.
..

Although neck sizing may extend the case life, it typically reduces
accuracy with belted cases.

BB

From recently:

March 20, 2012, 11:09 AM #8
Bart B.

The Willis collet die's probably the best reloading tool for belted cases since the reloading press was invented.

I've worn out 3 or 4 belted 30 caliber barrels in competion. The only way I got reloads for them to shoot sub 5/8 MOA at 1000 yards was to use brand new cases or resize fired ones such that the ridge in front of the belt got sized down to new case diameters. Folks used to cut the center part out of a standard full length sizing die then use it either before or after using a standard full length sizing die. That body die has to be set so the case body is sized all the way back to the belt; not 1/32 inch in front of it like standard full length dies do. Otherwise, that ridge prevents the case head from chambering the same for each shot; it causes interference when the bolt's closed.

The reason one should not feel any binding when closing the bolt on a chambered round is it makes the bolt head lock up in different places for each shot. Biggest cause of this is out of square bolt faces closing on previously fired cases whose heads are now more out of square; when the two high points align binding is at its worst. That changes how the barreled action whips around a bit when the round's fired. If the barrel doesn's whip the same for each shot, bullets won't strike very close to each other.

'Course if you can't shoot 20 or more consecutive shots of your belted case ammo into 1/4 MOA at 100 or 5/8 MOA at 1000, then you probably won't see nor appreciate what the Willis Collet Die will do. A great thing about it is it doesn't push body brass up against the belt like the old body dies used years ago do. One can probably get 20 or more loads per case instead of 10 to 15 we got with the body dies we used to make

[1858]

Although neck sizing may extend the case life, it typically reduces accuracy with belted cases.


I've really enjoyed (and learned a lot from) Bart B.'s posts on this forum but I can't agree with his statement above based on my experience with neck sizing .300 Win Mag cases. The two groups posted earlier were shot using cases that were neck sized only. Those cases had been fired and neck sized twice. My approach with my .300 Win Mag rifles is to neck size only until there's too much resistance when closing the bolt. Then it's time to anneal the case mouth, bump the shoulder back a couple of thousandths and neck size. This will result in excellent accuracy and long case life.

[Kachok]

I don't believe there are cartrages that are accurate or inaccurate by nature, but there are cartrages that it is easier to stroke good accuracy out of. Sure the 7mm RM and 300 WM have a belt that makes accuracy just a hair harder to get, but they seem to have just about everything else going for them, hence some snipers and long range hunters still continue to use them even in this short mag era. Will the short mags replace them over time...maybe, but they have a long way to go before they replace field proven classics. That said my 270 WSM walked all over my three 7mm RMs, it is just a better rifle in every way for deer hunting. Flatter shooting, every bit as accurate, hits just as hard at range, and works in a light weight 24" short action, still a massive overkill inside 300 yards but all magnums are.

[Dthunter]

X2,1858!

I have been neck sizing my cases for at least 8 reloads.

My accuracy has been under MOA consistantly. I have shot this rifle out to 1760 yards an even 1900yds.

Hope to add the 2000 yard mark to my resume this summer!

[Dthunter]

I would like to know how well a 300wsm shoots the 210gr. Bergers and 208A-Max. (compared to the 300 WinMag.)

The Savage 110 BA allows for these bullets to be seated long, and still function through the magazine. Also reduces the volume/powder capacity robbing nature of the heavy bullets in short necked cases like the 300 Win Mag.

[MtnCreek]

I may be way off base, but it seems to me it would shoot as well through the short mags as it would through the long mag. Barrel + Bullet = Hit, IMHO.

[H&Hhunter]

Barrel + Bullet = Hit, IMHO

Of course it would depend on the twist rate of the barrel. A barrel needs a quicker twist to accurately shoot heavier (longer) bullets. A 1 in 10 or quicker should handle those nicely in a .308 caliber bore.