Groundskeeper fired for turning found gun over to police


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usmarine0352_2005
May 15, 2012, 10:49 AM
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Looks like a b.s. case. The guy did the right thing. He was only 2 years from retirement.



I wonder what his chance of winning an appeal are? Or even having an appeal.



http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/detroit-groundskeeper-fired-after-finding-loaded-gun-handing-it-to-cops/?test=latestnews



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Detroit groundskeeper fired after finding loaded gun, handing it to cops

Published May 15, 2012


A Detroit groundskeeper, who turned in a loaded handgun he found hidden in weeds while working, was fired by the city’s Department of Public Services, MyFoxDetroit reports.

According to a Wayne County spokeswoman and the rules, employees aren't allowed to possess a weapon on work property.

Chevilott says he didn't bring a weapon to work. He found it on the job.
.


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MrDig
May 15, 2012, 10:57 AM
my guess is management rather than labor decided that a recent hire was at the low end of the union scale as opposed to this guy very high end of the pay scale since he is so close to retirement and enforced the letter of the policy as opposed the rational humane side of the policy.
He stands a good chance of getting his retirement early.

hso
May 15, 2012, 11:00 AM
So is anyone planning to do anything or is this just a complaint thread?

TITAN308
May 15, 2012, 11:14 AM
Someone give me an address to send a letter and I'll be happy to put my 2 cents into these low lifes. Or an e-mail address.

I suggest everyone putting this story up on Facebook and sharing it as many ways as you can.

When are these idiots going to learn the power of social media can give them such a giant headache. :rolleyes:

D Crockett
May 15, 2012, 11:33 AM
looks like a way they would not have to pay him his retirement it is happening more and more these days the man did the right thing by turning in the gun and his big mistake was to id himself to the police he could of done it with out giving his name his xbosses have there head up there back sides for doing that what if a kid found that gun and got killed or killed another kid they should of given hip a medal for doing what he did not fire him D Crockett

tarakian
May 15, 2012, 11:45 AM
Why didn't he call the police, instead of waiting for them to drive by? Why would he take it home before taking it to the police instead of directly to the police on his way home? I think some of the facts may be missing here.

TITAN308
May 15, 2012, 11:49 AM
Why didn't he call the police, instead of waiting for them to drive by? Why would he take it home before taking it to the police instead of directly to the police on his way home? I think some of the facts may be missing here.

Because he was busy working?

Because he was not sure what to do, and was worried about initial knee jerk reactions?

Because he wanted to contact a lawyer before turning it knowing his company has been looking for a reason to deny him his retirement benefits?

His foreman, who had knowledge of the situation, was suspended for 30 days

Maybe the question should be, why did his supervisor not assume command of the weapon and take care of it? Why allow an employee to retain it?

jdh
May 15, 2012, 12:24 PM
A city crew that does not have a radio or cell phone amongst them?

I hate to be the one to take the side of management BUT, once he took possession of the contraband firearm instead of securing in place and immediately notifying the chain of command or law enforcement he was in violation of the policy. The point could be argued that he had no intention of reporting, instead intended to keep the found property, and only later had a change of heart.

Had the gun had been used in recent crime, once he touched it evidence was destroyed.

drsfmd
May 15, 2012, 01:03 PM
I'm with JDH here...

This reads like he intended to keep it, then got cold feet and flagged down a cop.

Agsalaska
May 15, 2012, 01:06 PM
Totally agree with JDH. I see management is probably not too popular on this forum, but the guy screwed up. He should have called the police. As soon as he took possession of it he had broken company policy. A policy like gun possession is not usually negotiable, and he lost his job. I doubt it had anything to do with his tenure or retirement but i get that is convenient.

If I found a gun while I was mowing a lawn on public property, the last thing I would do is possess it in any way. Thats pretty stupid.

Creature
May 15, 2012, 01:07 PM
Sounds like a plausible scenario. The news media arent known for getting all the facts to make things clearer.

Flopsweat
May 15, 2012, 02:05 PM
A city crew that does not have a radio or cell phone amongst them?

I hate to be the one to take the side of management BUT, once he took possession of the contraband firearm instead of securing in place and immediately notifying the chain of command or law enforcement he was in violation of the policy. The point could be argued that he had no intention of reporting, instead intended to keep the found property, and only later had a change of heart.

Had the gun had been used in recent crime, once he touched it evidence was destroyed.

From http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/wayne-county-worker-fired-after-finding-gun-on-the-job-20120514-ms :

John Chevilott found a gun, secured it, brought it back to the road yard in Westland, which is Wayne County property, before he turned it into police.
So it looks like the policy violation occurred when he brought it to the road yard, not when he picked it up. But I get what you're saying.

I have no idea whether he meant to keep it. It was a really dumb move not to call it in, but I hate to see him loose his job over it. 23 years in, 2 to go. What were you thinking?

SharpsDressedMan
May 15, 2012, 02:32 PM
Just think, if he had kept his mouth shut, and either left the gun in the bushes, or hidden it under his shirt, he would have fared better with management and kept his job. Neither the RIGHT thing to do, but either would have achieved more favorable results.

TITAN308
May 15, 2012, 02:42 PM
As the saying goes; No good deed goes unpunished.

Agsalaska
May 15, 2012, 03:15 PM
Just think, if he had kept his mouth shut, and either left the gun in the bushes, or hidden it under his shirt, he would have fared better with management and kept his job. Neither the RIGHT thing to do, but either would have achieved more favorable results.

True. Or he could have done what he should have done and contacted the police when he found it.

mgkdrgn
May 15, 2012, 03:16 PM
Why didn't he call the police, instead of waiting for them to drive by? Why would he take it home before taking it to the police instead of directly to the police on his way home? I think some of the facts may be missing here.
Ummm, because he had -other- things to do? Police response time in Detroit, for an ACTIVE CRIME, is like 22 minutes. How many days would he have sat around waiting for them to show up?

Claude Clay
May 15, 2012, 03:20 PM
i weighted the thought that he took it home with 'other' thoughts; but so many knew he had it that , well that don't fly.
though what I'm gonna say may sound cold--he's perhaps not all that quick on his feet...
23 years as a grounds keeper, perhaps he was saved from the horrible effects of the peter principal only to suffer in the home stretch from a terminal (sic) case of the not to brights

i do not think he thought with malice. he just did not think the discovery and the process through well.

---------------
Archie Bunker is not a wholely fictional character

SharpsDressedMan
May 15, 2012, 05:00 PM
^^^So, he then came clean, and his reward was firing? Why not slap him on the hand, give him a written reprimand, thank him for being honest and triumphing over his initial improper actions, and move on? What a moral boost (in an otherwise pit of a city) that might have been for the rest of the employees! .........."The beatings will continue until morale improves!"

mdauben
May 15, 2012, 05:08 PM
I agree that the guy's resonse to finding the gun may have been... less than optimal. I don't see that it justifed firing him, though. Assuming it was the innocent mistake it appears, I hope his lawyer sues him up a good retirement fund.

T Bran
May 15, 2012, 05:30 PM
Someone higher up had a nephew,son in law or whatever that needed a job is more than likely the case. I seriously doubt that finding a gun and keeping it untill you could get some opinions on the best course of action [overnite] is the true reason he was let go.
By the same logic he may have PO'ed some one in the past who was laying for him.
I think he did the community a favor by keeping it out of the hands of their children.
T

Agsalaska
May 15, 2012, 05:38 PM
Someone higher up had a nephew,son in law or whatever that needed a job is more than likely the case.


Easy type of excuse to sell but very rarely is it actually applied. Same goes for the 'he was overpaid and nearing retirement so we had to get rid of him and bring in someone cheaper' argument. These are both very typical arguments used by labour against management to justify situations just like this. But rarelyt is it the actual reason someone is let go. But it sure can make you feel better.

They have a strict rule against guns as stated. It is a non negotiable term offense. Very similar to drug abuse in most companies. He violated it. He carried a gun at work for a portion of his day. Nothing else matters. His age, race, how long he had been there, or what the circumstances were. He found a gun, picked it up, and carried it at work. If they make an exception for him then there entire basis for a non negotiable stance goes away.

I feel bad for the guy too and feel sorry for him. But dont blame management and use these old stale arguments to defend a guy for making a stupid decision. He put himself in a position to get fired.

On a side note, I am not arguing that the rule against firearm possession is a good one. But it was the rule.

T Bran
May 15, 2012, 06:19 PM
Yeah I'm with ya just leave them where they lay if you find them.
Kids need something to play with.
If there was any malice on his part there wouldnt have been a report to his supervisor.
While I agree that the rules apply to all some miniscule ammount of common sense should be applied on occasion.
If you contact the police and stand guard over the gun till they show up you have taken both responsibility for and posession of the gun. I guess either way you are doomed.
T

Agsalaska
May 15, 2012, 06:43 PM
Yeah I'm with ya just leave them where they lay if you find them.
Kids need something to play with.
If there was any malice on his part there wouldnt have been a report to his supervisor.
While I agree that the rules apply to all some miniscule ammount of common sense should be applied on occasion.
If you contact the police and stand guard over the gun till they show up you have taken both responsibility for and posession of the gun. I guess either way you are doomed.
T


First, I wouldnt advocate leaving it where you found it either.

And I do agree that a certain amount of common sense should be able to be applied as well. Unfortunately the employee showed none. Therefore the employer didnt either.

I totally disagree with the last part. Just because you call the police and stand near it to keep kids, if there were any, back does NOT mean you have taken both responsibility and possession of the gun. That is completely false.

I would imagine if he picked it up(which is stupid), unloaded it, and set it back down to call the police, the employers would have had a better opportunity to show the common sense you are referring to. I am not saying they would, but it would be a different scenario.

T Bran
May 15, 2012, 06:59 PM
Please realise that one becomes quite jaded in my part of the country S Fla. Chronyism and kick backs to ones employer are so rampant that if you try to direct deposit a payroll check into more than one account the payroll companies wont do it without a notarised letter from your bank stating that it is actually your account.
I am no stranger to the things citys/countys and private companies do to working folks as I have watched time and again the same things happen.
As for standing guard it was merely a demonstration of how ludicrusly ridgid rules can be interpeted. Should have put a smiley after that.
Cant wait to get out of this third world dung heap but I'm stuck here a bit longer.
T

Agsalaska
May 15, 2012, 07:03 PM
Please realise that one becomes quite jaded in my part of the country S Fla. Chronyism and kick backs to ones employer are so rampant that if you try to direct deposit a payroll check into more than one account the payroll companies wont do it without a notarised letter from your bank stating that it is actually your account.
I am no stranger to the things citys/countys and private companies do to working folks as I have watched time and again the same things happen.
As for standing guard it was merely a demonstration of how ludicrusly ridgid rules can be interpeted. Should have put a smiley after that.
Cant wait to get out of this third world dung heap but I'm stuck here a bit longer.
T

Fair enough.

Tinpig
May 15, 2012, 08:02 PM
The comments that "he should have called the police" seem to be a based on the assumption that everyone carries a cell phone.

Am I the last person in the US who doesn't own one and has no desire to? :)

If I found a loaded gun in an isolated area I would not be able to secure it without taking posession of it.

I think this guy is getting screwed.

Tinpig

mgregg85
May 15, 2012, 08:05 PM
He did the right thing by turning it in but he should have gotten on the phone and called the cops ASAP, just to CYA.

the iron horse
May 15, 2012, 08:18 PM
Common sense it seems, is no longer common.

Something has gone wrong in this country that a story like
this should even be in the news.

ApacheCoTodd
May 15, 2012, 10:22 PM
While on the one hand I wanna say - maybe he learned his lesson and if the situation ever arose again, he'd keep it to himself and sell it to some drug addict.

But then there's this. What if he had gone on lunch break - whatever, somehow allowed it to be seen, had a cop called and then is faced with "oh, this (soon to be found to be stolen) pistol that I found - I was just holding it till I got the opportunity to pass it on responsibly". Yeah, that tack worked really well when we were all kids didn't it?

I feel bad for the guy as faar as getting fired but c'mon... Detroit, a hidden handgun and if he intended to hand it in as stated he still kept it on him till afterwork "Later that same evening"?

Not well thought out and could have ended much worse for him and as far as his employers were concerned he was armed the rest of the day after "finding" it - so there's that too.

Owen Sparks
May 15, 2012, 10:46 PM
Did he really "do the right thing"? What if he had just kept his mouth shut and not involved the police? Or what if he had made an anonymous call from a pay phone telling the police where it could be found?

He made the mistake of getting involved.

191145fan
May 15, 2012, 11:14 PM
A worker carries a gun to work. The establishment is antigun and will fire you if your are caught with a firearm. Worker gets caught with firearm. Claims he found it and is turning it to police. Establishment fires the worker.

Proving you actually found it is difficult.

razorback2003
May 15, 2012, 11:15 PM
The guy would have sadly done better by throwing the gun in a pond. Kind of sad that doing the right thing is criticized because a specific procedure is not followed.

Owen Sparks
May 15, 2012, 11:33 PM
Did he get caught with it BEFORE he turned it in to police?

Agsalaska
May 16, 2012, 01:01 AM
A worker carries a gun to work. The establishment is antigun and will fire you if your are caught with a firearm. Worker gets caught with firearm. Claims he found it and is turning it to police. Establishment fires the worker.

Proving you actually found it is difficult.

Proving you found it is meaningless. All that matters is that you took possession of it and, if you want to even try to give him the benefit of the doubt, did not immediately turn it in to the police. He should have never touched it and called the police immediately. The fact that he took possession of it and actually carried it at work as his personal possession is all that matters. I feel bad for him. But he got what he had coming. He gave his employers little if any choice int he matter.

This is assuming the facts are as they are being read. Most of you are reading them as fact so I will too.

ScottieG59
May 16, 2012, 01:37 AM
I think this guy was not the smartest. If i found a gun, I would definitely not move or touch it. The waiting and carrying the gun is not good. I expect the police will not care since he turned it in with a plausible story. Bringing it back to work was a bit dumb, but if it occurred as described, I would not have canned him.

Like many things that are sold to the press, this storey may have missing and inaccurate parts.

usmarine0352_2005
May 16, 2012, 01:45 AM
A worker carries a gun to work. The establishment is antigun and will fire you if your are caught with a firearm. Worker gets caught with firearm. Claims he found it and is turning it to police. Establishment fires the worker.

Proving you actually found it is difficult.


Why would he turn it in then?



Work never knew he had a gun. So he didn't get 'caught' with a gun at work.
.

303tom
May 16, 2012, 08:48 AM
Been me, I would have put in my pocket & not said a word to anyone...............

Agsalaska
May 16, 2012, 09:38 AM
Like many things that are sold to the press, this storey may have missing and inaccurate parts.

This.

Kaeto
May 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
For those of you that said he should have left it where he found it and called the police. The Detroit cops wouldn't have come since nobody was actively being attacked with the gun, and he would have been told to bring it to a precinct (during the hours they are open) to turn it in.

kris7047th
May 16, 2012, 09:50 AM
Why didn't he call the police, instead of waiting for them to drive by? Why would he take it home before taking it to the police instead of directly to the police on his way home? I think some of the facts may be missing here.
He would have been fired for stepping off the job to report it to the police. Anyways, you have to understand the situation with Detroit PD. They don't respond to 911 calls, and have publicly stated as such. I hope he gets his job back asap.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/semi-driver-says-he-was-beaten-after-fender-bender-in-detroit-20120514-ms

22-rimfire
May 16, 2012, 10:16 AM
I would have done exactly the same thing, but unloaded the handgun if I knew how. I thinik the Detroit man has grounds for a serious law suit which would probably yield full salary and benefits until retirement age and then full participation in whatever retirement system is in place. My advice is get a lawyer and begin the legal process.

jdh
May 16, 2012, 11:03 AM
For those of you that said he should have left it where he found it and called the police. The Detroit cops wouldn't have come since nobody was actively being attacked with the gun, and he would have been told to bring it to a precinct (during the hours they are open) to turn it in.

At least then he would have some proof that he did intend to turn the gun in. Carrying it around all day and then suddenly remembering to go turn it in well after the end of the work day (for both him and the property officers at the police station) raises questions as to his true intent, justified or not.

Ye Olde Fool
May 16, 2012, 11:04 AM
A city crew that does not have a radio or cell phone amongst them?

I hate to be the one to take the side of management BUT, once he took possession of the contraband firearm instead of securing in place and immediately notifying the chain of command or law enforcement he was in violation of the policy. The point could be argued that he had no intention of reporting, instead intended to keep the found property, and only later had a change of heart.

Had the gun had been used in recent crime, once he touched it evidence was destroyed.
The point could also be argued that not everyone is as astute as you are.
What is clearly the way to handle a situation to one person, may not be that obvious to another.

Ye Olde Fool
May 16, 2012, 11:10 AM
Do you wonder why our country is in trouble? This is another example of the imbeciles we have positions of authority whether elected, appointed, or employed.
What has happened to “Common Sense”?
My mistake “Common Sense” is not “Common” any more!

drsfmd
May 16, 2012, 12:08 PM
He would have been fired for stepping off the job to report it to the police. Anyways, you have to understand the situation with Detroit PD. They don't respond to 911 calls, and have publicly stated as such. I hope he gets his job back asap.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/news/local/semi-driver-says-he-was-beaten-after-fender-bender-in-detroit-20120514-ms

No employer, especially not a public one, would fire an employee for calling the police to handle a matter like this. It doesn't matter if they respond to 911 or not... they would have a record of his call.

CZguy
May 16, 2012, 12:23 PM
My mistake “Common Sense” is not “Common” any more!

In all fairness, "common sense" has never been "common".

p35
May 16, 2012, 11:09 PM
The way I heard it his union has already filed a grievance and will be fighting this thing out. I'm not always a fan of unions, but sometimes they force bureaucrats to exercise common sense. I'm guessing they're going to compromise on an unpaid suspension and call it good.

Agsalaska
May 16, 2012, 11:14 PM
I know I was defending management earlier, and I think they probably felt trapped into the decision. But I do hope they come up with some kind of amicable solution. I certainly dont think his actions showed very good judgement, but, if it was honest, maybe they can work something out.

ApacheCoTodd
May 16, 2012, 11:25 PM
The way I heard it his union has already filed a grievance and will be fighting this thing out. I'm not always a fan of unions, but sometimes they force bureaucrats to exercise common sense. I'm guessing they're going to compromise on an unpaid suspension and call it good.
I hope the union comes through for him. I get the management reacting, just not this particular and Draconian reaction - go figure - retirement was looming.

garymc
May 17, 2012, 05:21 AM
Why would someone throw away a perfectly good gun? Maybe because it was stolen or stolen and then used in a crime? If you were the cop and the gun was determined to be stolen or used to shoot someone and the only fingerprints on it were those of our hero, would you be irate? Irate enough to complain to his agency? There's probably a lot here we don't know.

armarsh
May 17, 2012, 08:00 AM
Been me, I would have put in my pocket & not said a word to anyone...............

You are not alone. :evil:

fatcat4620
May 17, 2012, 08:15 AM
You dont touch it, notify your supervisor, show him where it Is and go back to work. Or you dont tell a soul, put it in your pocket and keep it. What you don't do is what he did.

Carl N. Brown
May 17, 2012, 08:56 AM
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/15/detroit-groundskeeper-fired-after-finding-loaded-gun-handing-it-to-cops/

There was no [overnite] involved.

....the Detroit police never did pass by, so Chevilott finished his work that day, drove the gun home and later that same evening turned it into his local police department.

He says the cops ran the gun and discovered the weapon had been stolen from St. Clair Shores in 2005.

"They said I did the right thing getting it off the street," Chevilott told MyFoxDetroit.com.

Even New York City (New York City!?) has an exemption for unlicensed possession if you take a gun from an attacker and defend yourself with it. I would hope they would have an exemption for people who find a throw-down gun and turn it in to the police. So if you are a groundskeeper for Detroit and you find a throw-away gun you're supposed to make it disappear or be terminated for violating company policy on possession.

He turned the gun over to police on his own time and was fired; I wonder what the county's reaction would have been if he had interrupted work to do it?

skoro
May 18, 2012, 11:10 AM
As the saying goes; No good deed goes unpunished.

Ain't that the truth.

Reminds me of the so-called "management" at my place of work. The only conversation they ever have with me is to ask, "Why are you complying with our policies?" :rolleyes:

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