[Skribs]

I'm looking at getting into reloading, specifically buckshot loads in shotshells. I partly want to reduce the cost, allow for lack of availability of #1 buck from off-the-shelf ammo near where I live, but I also want to see if I can increase the spread on the pattern.

The shotguns I have are both 18.5" barrel with no choke, specifically a Mossberg 930 SPX and a Benelli SuperNova. I would like to build the shell with the intention of creating a wider spread with a consistent pattern, preferably about 2" per yard. I've read I'll have to play around with it to get the pattern I want, but I was looking for some pointers to get started, i.e. how to increase or decrease the spread.

Some things I've looked at are what I think are called brush wads, which don't protect the shot from the barrel. I'm worried if those would cause inconsistent patterns, though.

The other thing I looked at was the spred-r wad or the x inserts, but those seem more suited for low-diameter birdshot.

[Waywatcher]

It's hard. I started with shotshell reloading and quickly began exploring Buckshot as well.

A simple thing you can do is cut off the petals of a target wad. It will give you increased pellet space and increased spread. #1 buck pellets stack neatly in layers of 4 when there are no petals. 12 of them are just over an ounce.

I am really satisfied with a load I found using Nickel plated BB (.18 caliber) in a WAA12 wad over Red Dot powder. ~52 (1oz) of the pellets at 1200 fps and a nice even coverage of a IDPA torso at 25 yards.

[Skribs]

Just making sure I'm understanding correctly, because I'm new to reloading - the petals are the part of the wad that makes the cup for the shot? If so, cutting the petals off would make it seem like a brush wad (again, am I correct?).

[gamestalker]

Even though shotshell loading allows for more experimentation than does any other type of reloading, bad things can still happen when going outside the published recipies. Cutting pedals off the wad is something i've seen done before, but doing it with larger shot sizes including #1 buck may cause unpredictable high pressure issues, or worse.

As to producing a load with a greater spread, while trying to gain consistent patterns, sounds really challenging at best. Most of what we obtain for pattern density is created by the choke. You stated that your 18 1/2" barrel is not choked. All shot barrels have some degree of choke, unless someone cut the barrel off, or if they are rifled barrels intended for slugs, other wise known as slug barrels. It may have an improved cylinder or something in that light choke range, or on the extreme end an extra full choke barrel.

Take a close look at the barrel, you should see an abbreviation or the words stamped into the barrel such as, Imp (improved), Mod (modified), FC (full) or some other variation of those abbreviations will be visible on the barrel, not the reciever.

The fact that you indicated that you are looking at getting into reloading is what concerns me, regarding your initial approach. Trying to manipulate or completely by pass specified reloading data is always a risky process. But for a person who has zero hands on experience who wants to start off by trying to re-invent the process, is plain and simple dangerous at best. Altering a wad can easily produce catrostrophic failure up to and including an exploding firearm. The wad is actually the primary component in a shotgun shell that assures the shot gets out of the barrel. If the shot can't get out of the shell / barrel the barrel is surely going to explode. By altering the wad pedals one is playing rusian ruelet, but with 5 loaded cylinders, 1 empty, verses 5 empty cylinders, 1 loaded.

[Uniquedot]

Just making sure I'm understanding correctly, because I'm new to reloading - the petals are the part of the wad that makes the cup for the shot? If so, cutting the petals off would make it seem like a brush wad (again, am I correct?).

It's not exactly a brush wad, but it does open patterns in some guns/chokes. There is no danger at all in cutting the petals from the wad and in fact if that is your only alteration pressure would be a little lower as the crimp wouldn't be holding as much wad pressure against the load. You can make spreaders for shotshells by cutting thin construction board paper into small squares that will fit in the shotcup and splitting them about three fourths down the middle and joining two together.

Just place them into the shotcup and add the shot (i use an adjustable dipper when making spreaders) i don't know if they would work with buckshot though. Sometimes an overshot card added to a fold crimped load will open up patterns, but again it probably wouldn't open up a buckshot spread.



Some things I've looked at are what I think are called brush wads, which don't protect the shot from the barrel. I'm worried if those would cause inconsistent patterns, though.

Brush wads or wads with the petals removed don't cause inconsistent patterns at all. Although older guns had longer tapering than more modern guns have old time wad columns produce nice consistent patterns from either.


All shot barrels have some degree of choke

There are plenty of cylinder bored factory barrels out there. I have a couple and in fact have one on one of my wingmasters. Now I'm not familiar with the op's guns/barrels and he may indeed have improved cylinder chokes, but there are also straight cylinder choke tubes available and i used to have a few of those as well.

[Skribs]

As to producing a load with a greater spread, while trying to gain consistent patterns, sounds really challenging at best. Most of what we obtain for pattern density is created by the choke. You stated that your 18 1/2" barrel is not choked. All shot barrels have some degree of choke, unless someone cut the barrel off, or if they are rifled barrels intended for slugs, other wise known as slug barrels. It may have an improved cylinder or something in that light choke range, or on the extreme end an extra full choke barrel.

Take a close look at the barrel, you should see an abbreviation or the words stamped into the barrel such as, Imp (improved), Mod (modified), FC (full) or some other variation of those abbreviations will be visible on the barrel, not the reciever.

These are tactical models of the Benelli Supernova and Mossberg 930 SPX. They have no choke. They are cylinder bore, and cannot accept chokes.

The fact that you indicated that you are looking at getting into reloading is what concerns me, regarding your initial approach. Trying to manipulate or completely by pass specified reloading data is always a risky process. But for a person who has zero hands on experience who wants to start off by trying to re-invent the process, is plain and simple dangerous at best. Altering a wad can easily produce catrostrophic failure up to and including an exploding firearm. The wad is actually the primary component in a shotgun shell that assures the shot gets out of the barrel. If the shot can't get out of the shell / barrel the barrel is surely going to explode. By altering the wad pedals one is playing rusian ruelet, but with 5 loaded cylinders, 1 empty, verses 5 empty cylinders, 1 loaded.

This is why I am asking for advice. There are products on the market which are designed to increase or decrease spread of birdshot, I was wondering if there was something similar with buckshot. It is also why I was asking if the suggestion of cutting off the petals was the same as a brush wad, because then I could use a brush wad instead. These solutions would not be something that I would have to alter and experiment with, but factory solutions that I wouldn't have to do much but put the parts in.

[Steve C]

In shotshell reloading you need to get published data and use it exactly. No substitutions of component. There is plenty of data for buck shot and it is not a simple substitution of buck shot in a load designed for bird shot. The Lyman shotshell manual is probably one of the best sources. Shotguns have a much lower capability to withstand excess pressures than a rifle or handgun. Experimenting can get you a bunch of metal shrapnel in your face.

I have seen several specific loads in manuals that say to remove the petals from a plastic wad and stack in X number of pellets of X size. This is done to provide the room needed to hold the large buckshot where bird shot is small enough to fill the available volume by weight.

Spreader wads where designed with a center post to be used with bird shot allowing for more open patterns and to make a fixed choke shoot like the next more open choke. Used to be more usefull in the days before interchangeable chokes became the norm.

Buckshot that is not buffered, shot that gets deformed by not having a wad cup protect the shot as it goes down the bore will spread more. If you want to purposely open up you patters just bang your shot around a bit as uneven deformed shot opens up a pattern more than shot that's uniform and more round.

[Skribs]

What is the largest size birdshot those center-post spreader wads can be used on?

And I guess since everyone is saying use published data, I guess that's part of the question, how can I determine from a recipe if its going to be a wider or narrower pattern?

[Uniquedot]

There is plenty of data for buck shot and it is not a simple substitution of buck shot in a load designed for bird shot.

If you substitute buckshot in a load designed for bird shot pressures will actually generally be lower or remain the same, but not higher. Pressure testing proves this fact and there is info on this subject in the 5th edition of reloading for shotgunners, but if one is looking to load magnum buckshot loads he/she would need buckshot specific data. I have substituted buck for bird for many years to make reduced recoil buckshot loads, but for magnum loads i use specific data.

What is the largest size birdshot those center-post spreader wads can be used on?

Are you asking about the wads with a post in the middle or are you talking about the spreaders that look like an overshot card with a post attached to it?

[rcmodel]

Everyone else in the known universe is trying to find ways to get tighter buckshot patterns for better effectiveness!!

Why do you want more spread?

rc

[Skribs]

Rc, I want a pattern of 6-8" at 3-4 yards, which equates to 2" per yard. I don't get that wide of a pattern, currently.

Unique, I'm asking about these (http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html) or something similar.

[Uniquedot]

Unique, I'm asking about these or something similar.

I know these will work with bb's, but they should work with larger shot also.

how can I determine from a recipe if its going to be a wider or narrower pattern?

You can't determine this from a recipe. Only in testing different loads and wad combinations can you find the load that works best for you in your gun. You can't determine this by pressure either, but generally lower velocity loads will give tighter patterns, but not always.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

First off, I agree with several of the posters who have said that beginners should not be messing with load data. As has already been said, shotgun barrels have very thin walls. It does not take too much overpressure to split them. They are much less robust than a rifle or pistol barrel, simply because the barrel wall is so thin. Every powder manufacturer provides free handouts specifying many, many shotgun loads. All you have to do is ask where you buy powder. Now all of that is available at the powder company pages on the internet too. First rule of loading shotgun is not to deviate from published loads. Use only the specific components listed. If you don't have the specific components, either get them, or choose another recipe.

I have used both the X type spreader wads and the type with the post in loads with #7 1/2 or #8 shot. As previously stated, they will only open the pattern up about one choke size. For instance from Full Choke to Improved Modified. They really do not have a very significant affect on the pattern at all. These type of spreaders will only be useful for bird shot because once the shot gets very big, you can't pack it in evenly around the post or in the sections of the X.

As already stated, a recipe does not determine the spread of the shot. The recipe only determines how much shot and what velocity. Chokes determine the spread. There are standard tables in any loading manual showing the amount of shot within a 3 foot circle at 15 yards or so. No, they are not calculated at 3 or 4 yards, they are calculated for the distance at which a bird or a clay pigeon will normally be shot. And sorry, don't count on spread being linear either.

[Skribs]

So in other words, I should just pick loads at random and see how they pattern? I may be new to reloading, but I'm pretty sure there are trends I can follow.

Like I said, I'm not looking to experiment outside the box. I'm looking to use the tools on the market, I just want advice on which types of recipes will make a wider pattern.

Let me put it another way: which types of recipes make a tighter pattern? What are the traits of those recipes that make it tighter? If I know that (since most people want that), then what can I do to avoid that and get a wider pattern?

[Uniquedot]

which types of recipes make a tighter pattern? What are the traits of those recipes that make it tighter? If I know that (since most people want that), then what can I do to avoid that and get a wider pattern?

As already mentioned one of them is usually lower velocities and remember it has nothing to do with the pressure. Another is half slit wad petals, but you already know that you need either brush wads or wads which you have removed the petals. Also you wouldn't want buffering either. A midrange burning powder loaded at maximum velocities may also help in opening up the spread. In post #7 Steve C mentioned deforming your buckshot and that will definitely open your patterns if you wanted to take the time to give each ball a smack with a hammer before loading them. You can also use a hard card over powder wad as an overshot card to open patterns a bit, but space would likely require a roll crimp with full payloads of buckshot and only use them with slower powders at moderate pressures unless you either reduce the payload a bit or the powder charge. As far as recipes there is no way to tell without testing, but the place to start is of course using spreaders and brush wads.

[RMc]

It's hard. I started with shotshell reloading and quickly began exploring Buckshot as well.

A simple thing you can do is cut off the petals of a target wad. It will give you increased pellet space and increased spread. #1 buck pellets stack neatly in layers of 4 when there are no petals. 12 of them are just over an ounce.

I am really satisfied with a load I found using Nickel plated BB (.18 caliber) in a WAA12 wad over Red Dot powder. ~52 (1oz) of the pellets at 1200 fps and a nice even coverage of a IDPA torso at 25 yards.
According to Ballistic Products B (.17") and BB (.18") are buckshot. Do not point to the SAAMI standard in rebuttal, because any SAAMI standard is Voluntary and not binding even on member companies.

[oneounceload]

They are cylinder bore, and cannot accept chokes.


They can be made to accept choke tubes easily enough

Let me put it another way: which types of recipes make a tighter pattern? What are the traits of those recipes that make it tighter? If I know that (since most people want that), then what can I do to avoid that and get a wider pattern?

CHOKE determines pattern density, not recipes for more or less velocity

One of the "spreader" chokes MIGHT be able to do a little more than a C choke - but the proof isn't all in on that. They operate by imparting a spin to the wad (with petals), as it leaved the barrel - issue becomes that the patterns seem irregular with a doughnut hole effect