Just put a Remington R1 Stainless 1911 on layaway with buds


PDA






TennJed
May 15, 2012, 10:03 PM
I finally started to pull the trigger on a 1911. I have a .22lr in 1911 but no true 45. Also I have never used layaway or Buds before. so I guess I killed 3 birds with one stone.

I wanted a entry level 1911 in stainless. Did not really want to pull it out of savings but could swing about $200 a month in fun money so wanted to go the layaway route. Origanally was looking at the Springfield GI, but the local stores did not have any in stock (nor buds). Most people seem satisfied with Buds, and they offer 90 layaway.

Also they have the Remington R1 1911 Stainless for $618 (including insured shipping) and my local guy charges $25. So it looks like I am getting it for $643 OTD.

Not a ton of reviews out there on the R1, espically the stainless, but for the most part what I have seen has been positive for an entry 1911. The only thing I was really hesitate on was that it does not seem to be +p rated, but that was not a deal breaker. A few questions.

1) What can you tell me about the Remington R1 (espically stainless)?
2) Are most entry level 1911s +p rated?
3) Have you used Buds Layaway? How did it go?
4) What can I do to keep my mind off it till I get her out of Jail?

Thanks

If you enjoyed reading about "Just put a Remington R1 Stainless 1911 on layaway with buds" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
dubya450
May 15, 2012, 10:18 PM
Awesome! I actually just put my first 1911 on layaway today as well. Mines a Kimber Custom Crimson Carry II (I know thats a long name). I was looking at alot of different 1911's and was considering the R1 too but haven't heard a whole lot about them, but i have shot a kimber and know a few buddies that own one so i went that route. As far as layaway goes I love it. I use Layaway for almost every gun I buy because I can make sure it doesn't get sold if i don't have all the money right away and it gives me time to pay it off. If you do 50-100 a week you hardly notice the money gone. Ot also gives you a chance to change your mind if for some reason you decided you don't want it. Never used bud's layaway but I'm sure it as good as anywhere. Congrats.

Cory

TennJed
May 16, 2012, 05:47 PM
thanks and congrats to you on the kimber

Mrcymstr
May 16, 2012, 05:59 PM
I have an r1 (not the stainless) and love it. You will not be disappointed. On the +p thing (in my opinion it could probably handle it but I wouldn't against OEM recommendations) its not really that big of a deal. The plain Jane regular pressure 230 gr seems to be quite an effective round. And by the way that's a killer deal! You got the stainless for just about the same I paid for the blue! Congrats! Now go forth and shoot the barrel out of it (after posting pics of course :p)

TennJed
May 18, 2012, 02:22 AM
For anyone that might be interested, I saw today that Buds increased the price on this to 680. I am glad I pulled the trigger on the layaway

ErikO
May 18, 2012, 04:19 PM
I have used Bud's layaway without issue. Have no fears. :)

intercooler
May 18, 2012, 04:30 PM
Saw a nice used one in X-Ring Newark, DE for a nice price.

MedWheeler
May 19, 2012, 12:07 AM
Saw a used one at Gander Mountain south of me about a month ago, also in stainless, and checked it out pretty closely. They wanted $499 for it. I'm not a SA-pistol fan, and I am also left-handed, but I'm still kind of kicking myself for not grabbing it.

tripe1917
May 19, 2012, 12:32 AM
I just bought one today for $700 which included the Tx sales tax. It will be my fourth 1911 and first stainless model. I prefer blued finishes but I felt the flawless satin finish and walnut grips complimented each other nicely.
I look forward to shooting it next week. My other 1911's were 2 Colt 70 series and a Kimber Custom II.

Kachok
May 19, 2012, 09:27 PM
Friend of mine ignored my advice and bought a Rem R1, he had fits with jamming even after a factory repair, he sold it a couple months later and bought a Sig. I won't touch any Remington products since they sold out, I had major issues with their new rifles.

TennJed
May 19, 2012, 10:17 PM
Friend of mine ignored my advice and bought a Rem R1, he had fits with jamming even after a factory repair, he sold it a couple months later and bought a Sig. I won't touch any Remington products since they sold out, I had major issues with their new rifles.
I am not a rifle guy. Does Remington have a bad reputation with rifles and shotguns?

mdThanatos
May 20, 2012, 12:04 AM
Remington used to be and can be argued still is a prominent manufacturer of rifles and shotguns. Two most popular models would have to be the Model 700 (rifle) and 870 (shotgun). They are owned by a company called Cerberus, which also has ownership of Bushmaster, AAC, Marlin and DPMS I believe. Some say the quality of their products has been affected since they went under Cerberus control. Then there was some controversy over the Model 700 and safety.

TennJed
May 20, 2012, 01:06 AM
Remington used to be and can be argued still is a prominent manufacturer of rifles and shotguns. Two most popular models would have to be the Model 700 (rifle) and 870 (shotgun). They are owned by a company called Cerberus, which also has ownership of Bushmaster, AAC, Marlin and DPMS I believe. Some say the quality of their products has been affected since they went under Cerberus control. Then there was some controversy over the Model 700 and safety.
When did they go under their control?

mdThanatos
May 20, 2012, 12:25 PM
Sometime in 2007.

To answer some of your original questions:

The biggest thing about it compared to other 1911's is that it is considered a series 80 pistol, which means it will have a firing pin safety on it. Some prefer not to have this due to the difference in trigger pull, others don't care. It is a forged slide on a cast frame, again others will have preferences on the the frames others will not. It won't come with a lifetime warranty like other manufacturers offer.

It probably isn't rated for +p ammo, but generally +p isn't something that is absolutely needed, especially if just going to the range with it. I am sure you can probably get away with testing some ammo in it to see if it feeds well and reliably and if that is going to be your carry ammo, if you plan on carrying it. If you won't be carrying it for protection and just using it at the range, you won't need +p at all.

Never used Bud's layaway, actually the only time I used Bud's was to try and sell a rifle but I found a buyer locally so I have only experienced communication with them, which was pretty satisfactory. Mainly I just spend time looking at the products they have on their site hoping that I win the lottery to make some purchases.

What can you do in the mean time...........well there is a ton of things you can do. Practice with your .22 to make sure you are ready to make the transition to the real deal, trust me, I need to pick one up and redo the basics as others have assisted me, big thanks to rcmodel as he hit the nail on the head in a previous topic I had. You can start trying to acquire reloading equipment to start preparing to feed your new partner, .45 gets expensive if you keep buying factory ammo. If reloading is out of the question, start buying a box of ammo every week to make sure you have a good amount on hand for when you get to take it out. A big thing you can do is, do not think about changing anything on the pistol until you have fired it and gotten used to it. I am not saying that the design is perfect for everyone but once you are familiar with it and have a good amount of shooting done with it then you should get an idea as to what you might want to change out. You can also start stocking up on magazines for it so you can enjoy more shooting before reloading. You can take up whittling to help pass the time, start small and get the technique down then move up to a larger piece of wood and make a dimensionally correct 1911 :D

TennJed
May 20, 2012, 12:54 PM
Sometime in 2007.

What can you do in the mean time...........well there is a ton of things you can do. Practice with your .22 to make sure you are ready to make the transition to the real deal, trust me, I need to pick one up and redo the basics as others have assisted me, big thanks to rcmodel as he hit the nail on the head in a previous topic I had. You can start trying to acquire reloading equipment to start preparing to feed your new partner, .45 gets expensive if you keep buying factory ammo. If reloading is out of the question, start buying a box of ammo every week to make sure you have a good amount on hand for when you get to take it out. A big thing you can do is, do not think about changing anything on the pistol until you have fired it and gotten used to it. I am not saying that the design is perfect for everyone but once you are familiar with it and have a good amount of shooting done with it then you should get an idea as to what you might want to change out. You can also start stocking up on magazines for it so you can enjoy more shooting before reloading. You can take up whittling to help pass the time, start small and get the technique down then move up to a larger piece of wood and make a dimensionally correct 1911 :D
I reload and actually already reload for 45acp. I have a Ruger Blackhawk chambered in it.

Thanks for all the good advice. Since I already have the 1911 in 22lr. It does help in getting to know the platform. My Father in Law has a old Colt 1911 in 45 I have been shooting also

mdThanatos
May 20, 2012, 01:18 PM
One other thing you might want to get, depending on how your R1 acts, a few guitar picks. I use them for putting the slide stop back in during reassembly, the detent that it covers doesn't like to move in far enough for me to swing/push/or any other form of manipulation to allow it to go back in to place, but a guitar pick allows me to push it in and get the stop back in place.

TennJed
June 11, 2012, 02:20 AM
Got her home this weekend. Man is she good looking. I will probably not get to shoot it until next weekend. But I am impressed with the fit and finish. I am not a 1911 guy, so I am not in a position to give a good review of tolerances.

I replaced the factory walnut grips with some buffalo horn grips. They look jet black until the light hits them right then they have streaks of gray and white. Pics cannot do it justice.

I wish I had gotten a picture of the white dot sights. Much improved over regular GI. The trigger is good. A slight creep, but not much at all IMHO

All told from Buds to my house it was $643. So far I am happy

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7236/7360668902_c8f77431fa_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7244/7360669214_b9cb8551cc_z.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7232/7360669508_798fd3b82c_z.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8160/7175443467_3440ec48e1_z.jpg

Dr.Rob
June 11, 2012, 05:02 AM
That is an attractive looking pistol and I really like the grips. Be sure to give us a range report.

1858
June 11, 2012, 11:54 AM
TennJed, congratulations on your new R1. I've shot a bunch of the R1s over the last couple of months including the Enhanced model and a few of the stainless models and they all performed flawlessly over hundreds of rounds so I was sufficiently impressed with all of them. The stainless models are really nicely finished too. I bought an Enhanced model for a friend a month or so ago and spent quite a bit of time checking it out before shipping it to her FFL. The only major complaint I had was the poorly fitted trigger (lots of vertical play) but it's a cheap and easy fix e.g. Ed Brown Videki trigger for $17 from Midway. Overall, E-RPC is making some very decent 1911s at competitive prices.

TennJed
June 11, 2012, 11:56 AM
That is an attractive looking pistol and I really like the grips. Be sure to give us a range report.

I will give a range report ASAP

Skylerbone
June 11, 2012, 01:17 PM
Jed, could you post a pic of the VIS for us? Also if you would another shot of the top of the barrel bed and one more with just frame, barrel and slide stop installed of the ramp area.

Every R1 I've seen has displayed the same error here, a large bevel cut at the top of the VIS which will most certainly affect barrel life and too little gap between frame and barrel ramp. Just curious if Remington has addressed this issue yet.

TennJed
June 11, 2012, 02:53 PM
Excuse my ignorance in 1911 terminology. What is the VIS? I feel foolish asking but I am not sure what you mean

1858
June 11, 2012, 03:18 PM
VIS .... vertical impact surface, some refer to it as the VIZ ... vertical impact zone. Look at the photos and description of the Ruger SR1911 in this thread, particularly at the fourth photo.

http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=317162

Basically it's a vertical surface on the frame that makes contact with the rear of the lower barrel lugs. You'll see a characteristic bow tie appearance on the rear of the lower barrel lugs where they contact the VIS in the frame. A symmetric bow tie is usually a good sign.

Skylerbone
June 11, 2012, 03:25 PM
Sorry, Vertical Impact Surface, the area of the frame the lower barrel lugs contact at the back of the dust cover. With the slide removed, the VIS is visible while pointing the frame at yourself. You'll see a round cut-out with a flat(ish) top (the barrel bed) which is the concave area between the frame ramp and VIS.

Most 1911s will have a light relief bevel at the transition between the two but Remingtons I've seen have a considerably larger bevel. This translates into a lower contact point for the barrel feet (lower lugs) adding more stress than necessary with each firing. I see your signature line includes a Colt which will have the proper relief cut for comparison. You'll see the round cut-out with what looks like a bowtie sitting proud of the area at the top.

TennJed
June 12, 2012, 07:02 PM
Sorry, I have not posted on the VIS yet. I will as soon as I get a chance to check it out

gym
June 12, 2012, 07:06 PM
Great guns, nice trigger and very accurate, I traded mine on a 40 EMP. But would not hesitate to buy another. I just couldn't carry it because of size.

1858
June 12, 2012, 10:44 PM
Every R1 I've seen has displayed the same error here, a large bevel cut at the top of the VIS which will most certainly affect barrel life

The Ruger SR1911 also has a significant bevel at the top of the VIS so you'll have to include the Ruger when speculating about barrel life. I looked at two stainless R1s today and the bevel is certainly no greater than the one shown on the Ruger in the link I provided.

Skylerbone
June 12, 2012, 11:47 PM
If by speculating you mean I cannot say with absolute certainty that the barrel will not meet with premature failure by other means; say a stringer caused by too high a sulphur content causing the barrel to split like a hot dog in a microwave then yes, I am speculating. If by speculating you mean I'm taking a wild guess that lowering the contact area of the VIS will lead to premature lug failure all else being equal then no, I am not speculating.

As the contact area is moved toward the tips of the lower lugs it is a matter of certainty that leverage increases in a negative way and that the lugs themselves by virtue of shape and design are weakest at the tips. That is the sole purpose of milling the bowtie and insuring high contact. As for the Ruger, it does not appear from the photos linked to include nearly so severe a cutaway as the Remington.

A few pictures of a Colt for illustration:

The VIS, bowtie visible
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166149&stc=1&d=1339559029

The transitional bevel between VIS and frame bridge
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166150&stc=1&d=1339559029

TennJed
June 13, 2012, 02:06 AM
Ok here is some pics of what I think you are looking for. Sorry for the crappy cell phone pics. It was all I could do for now

166158

166159

166160

1858
June 13, 2012, 09:49 AM
The bevel looks very similar on the Ruger and Remington but the angle of the bevel on the R1 appears to be larger. However, if you look at the area on the VIS that makes direct contact with the lower barrel lugs it looks like the Remington has the larger contact area. Regardless, you'll have a tough time convincing anyone that the reduction in contact area between the VIS and the lower barrel lugs (on either 1911) will significantly reduce barrel life. Without calculations or empirical evidence you are merely speculating. You talk of "the contact area moving towards the tips of the lower lugs" as if there's a significant shift of the centroid of the contact area but that's a misrepresentation of what's actually going on.

Image of Ruger SR1911 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=317162)

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/sr1911/sr1911-7.jpg

Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166158&d=1339567467

Skylerbone
June 13, 2012, 10:50 AM
Funny you should mention Ken Mayes and his Ruger, here's the first R1 internal shots I viewed which had me looking for more and taking an upclose look in person. http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354434. Several world class 1911 smiths were among the respondents.

I'm not in the business of convincing folks of anything, there's nothing that can't be disagreed on. Back to that Ruger, if it were as bad as the R1 I would think Ken would have mentioned it, it does indeed appear over-cut in depth though without a shot of the barrel bed it's hard to say how bad it is.

My original point in asking was to discern whether or not the R1 had changed. That bevel serves no purpose save providing an area for flanged material to displace into while allowing the gun to run. Removing half the contact patch on the VIS means the remaining area must still endure the full crash of the lugs. The lower that contact occurs the higher the stress on the lugs.

1858
June 13, 2012, 11:52 AM
The discussion in the link you provided pertains to the R1 shown in that link (and included below for convenience) which looks nothing like TennJed's R1 or the two new R1s I looked at yesterday. Given that ken mayes made no mention of the bevelled cut at the top of the VIS in his Ruger SR1911, which looks very much like the bevel on the R1, I would guess that he wasn't concerned about it.

Image of Remington R1 courtesy of ken mayes (http://forums.1911forum.com/showthread.php?t=354434)

http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff35/kemays/r1-frame3.jpg

Image of Remington R1 courtesy of TennJed

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166158&d=1339567467

TennJed
June 13, 2012, 12:11 PM
So I am not clear on what's going on here. Has it changed?

Skylerbone
June 13, 2012, 12:39 PM
It appears the the cut has changed but the amount of material removed from the VIS is still excessive. It appears Remington was speculating it would be problematic as well...whether Ken is concerned over the Ruger and its also being over-cut has little to do with whether it is correct or not.

I will concede (all else being equal) that a new R1 will see improved barrel life vs. any that received the "Ken Mayes Cut" but, all else being equal, both will still offer shorter barrel life than those using a correctly cut VIS. It's not opinion, it's physics.

TennJed
June 13, 2012, 01:07 PM
When you saw shorter barrel life. What does compute to? 2000 rounds, 5k, 10k, 50k

Skylerbone
June 13, 2012, 03:31 PM
Hard to put a number on it as there are of course other factors. No one can guarantee you 100 rounds or 100,000. Don't loose sleep over it, just keep an eye out and inspect the barrel for signs of issues from time to time. If you had the older version I would have advised a trade.

I'm not looking to be an alarmist, my question was solely based on my interest in the R1 as they are constantly available locally and I wouldn't mind picking one up at the price but having seen only examples of mis-cut ones has me holding my breath and money.

TennJed
June 13, 2012, 03:43 PM
How do other entry level 1911 stack up as far as the VIS? Say the RIA, Para, Springfield GI, ATI, ect?

1858
June 13, 2012, 05:09 PM
How do other entry level 1911 stack up as far as the VIS? Say the RIA, Para, Springfield GI, ATI, ect?

Here's a side-by-side comparision of a new R1 stainless with an SR1911 from Ruger. As you can see, they look very similar. I took photos of five R1s today and they all look like the one shown. I also took a photo of an R1 that is about 2 years old next to one of the new models and you can see that the bevel is significantly larger on the older model so Remington has obviously made a design change.

1858
June 13, 2012, 05:25 PM
Here are photos of four new stainless R1s showing the VIS with the smaller bevel.

1858
June 13, 2012, 05:26 PM
Here's the fifth one.

gunnutter
June 13, 2012, 05:30 PM
Man that is a sweet looking pistol. Congrat's!

1858
June 13, 2012, 05:32 PM
And just for interest, here's the VIS on a Colt Gold Cup with more than 90,000 rounds through it. The pistol is on its second barrel and you can see the VIS has been pounded by the lower barrel lugs so much so that the steel has flowed out between the legs of the lugs.

TennJed
June 13, 2012, 05:34 PM
I think it would safe to say that all the stainless models should have the new design. If I am not mistaken the stainless models were not released until a few months ago

If you enjoyed reading about "Just put a Remington R1 Stainless 1911 on layaway with buds" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!