Is Illinois getting anywhere with carrying a gun.


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dbrown
May 16, 2012, 11:55 AM
I'm from Illinois and is wondering if the state is trying to make progress on citizens being able to get a ccw.

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CountryUgly
May 16, 2012, 12:20 PM
NOPE... best advice is move......

dbrown
May 16, 2012, 12:45 PM
Yeah i know i should. I was thinking i should move to a state with constitutional carry.

Deanimator
May 16, 2012, 12:59 PM
They're getting no place, and at the speed of light.

The ONLY way that Illinois is going to get shall issue concealed carry is if the Supreme Court orders them to, as in the case of the Chicago handgun ban.

Chicago runs Illinois and Chicagoans have no more use for individual liberty than a starfish does for a unicycle.

Write Illinois off and get on with your life. Illinois is literally surrounded with free states. I'd pick Missouri. Before the Civil War, you went from Missouri to Illinois to be in a free state. Now it's the other way round.

C0untZer0
May 16, 2012, 01:19 PM
Please don't move.

I need you to help me and other Illinois citizens who have been stripped of their constitutional rights, fight and overturn the unconstitutional gun laws in Illinois.

Please join us at Illinois Carry:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

It's a battle and we need your help,

Thanks so much

mg.mikael
May 16, 2012, 01:23 PM
I'm from Illinois and is wondering if the state is trying to make progress on citizens being able to get a ccw.

Unfortunately with Quinn still in power it's not going to happen as he won't sign off on any bills that are pro-2nd amendment. So next time around vote that dang democrat out of office, along with his cronies.

But if Illinois track record with governors is any sign he'll soon be indicted on corruption joining his buddy Blago in the federal penitentiary. ;)

C0untZer0
May 16, 2012, 01:25 PM
Only two votes away from the 3/5 majority we need to over-ride home rule exemptions and "theoretically" make the Family and Personal Protection Act / carry law veto-proof.

http://www.foxillinois.com/news/local/Bill-sponsor-Illinois-possibly-two-votes-away-from-concealed-carry--150759165.html

C0untZer0
May 16, 2012, 01:51 PM
Last year they created the Firearm Public Awareness Task Force, to look into RTC in Illinois:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2811045/posts

From what I understand, this report shows a lot of favorable data, that may give some democrats some lee way with consituents to vote for it.

Yes Illinois is controlled by the Democratic Machine, and no - Rahm Emanual and Mike Madigan don't care what the report says. We aren't naive enough to believe that anti-gunners are going to listen to reason, we have a nieghbor to our North (Hello Cheesheads) who passed carry and their state is doing just fine since then. Wisconsin didn't turn into the OK Corral, all the states bordering us have carry laws... There has also been a change in attitude in some members of the African American community, favoring gun ownership.

So this could be the year... this could even be the month.

floydster
May 16, 2012, 07:53 PM
In my travels down south, I avoid Illinois like the plauge--horrible state including the toll roads:eek:

foghornl
May 16, 2012, 07:58 PM
I remember several years back, when oldest brother moved to Kansas from Emperor Dick DaleyLand:

"I had forgotten how it is in the USA.....

writerinmo
May 16, 2012, 08:08 PM
I live just over the "border" in Missouri, I refuse to enter the state at all, which bites especially with Fast Eddies right there across the bridge with the "coldest beer in the state" and all...

Stop electing the idiots and some possibility might exist for your 2nd Amendment rights being returned to you.

parkerdude
May 16, 2012, 08:21 PM
I live just over the "border" in Missouri, I refuse to enter the state at all, which bites especially with Fast Eddies right there across the bridge with the "coldest beer in the state" and all...

Stop electing the idiots and some possibility might exist for your 2nd Amendment rights being returned to you.
+1 with writerinmo,

we stopped going to Illinois too, no Fast Eddy's, Spencer T. Olin golf, what-ever. Usually about 20 - 25 guys, 4 or 5 times a year. Life's too short, gotta go where you're welcome.

ljnowell
May 16, 2012, 09:06 PM
Oh goody a hate illinois-why-dont-you-move-youre-all-commies thread! Its been so long!! OP go to www.illinoiscarry.com and dont listen to people that arent living in IL and involved in the fight.

BCCL
May 16, 2012, 09:10 PM
Stay and fight, I can remember the days we couldn't even get a vote on it, now we get closer every year.

writerinmo
May 16, 2012, 10:32 PM
ljnowell, you're thinking there has one big flaw in it...if it's within ANY of the 50 states then we're all "involved" in it, as long as ONE state still restricts our 2nd Amendment rights then the battle is still continuing. Illinois is already feeling the ill effects of people doing just as we advised, packing up and leaving rather than fight a fight they can't win against a corrupt "machine" that's decades old... a state that outlawed "novelty lighters", that passed a statute allowing you to pick up roadkill, and the latest news, that they want to charge everyone who's kid rides a bus to school $100 for the "privilege" to use the bus to get to their mandatory education classes. At some point the place is just going to collapse in on itself, maybe when it gets that bad they will hand it over to some high school economics class to run, they couldn't do any worse than the legislators that they end up with.

TyGuy
May 16, 2012, 10:34 PM
We have two carry bills in he legislature right now.

JoeMal
May 16, 2012, 10:41 PM
In my travels down south, I avoid Illinois like the plauge--horrible state including the toll roads
Make that ALL the roads....


I'm from Illinois...moved to Texas and won't ever go back unless it's to see my parents. Even then I'm counting the days until I'm back home

Hunter125
May 16, 2012, 10:50 PM
I read a quote not long ago by Rahm Emmanuel. It was about the reason he was pushing all those ridiculous gun laws a few months back, like restricting ammunition, etc. He basically said if he couldn't stop CCW in IL, he was going to do everything in his power to make life difficult for gun owners. That gives me a little hope.

C0untZer0
May 16, 2012, 11:00 PM
Joining the Illinois State Rifle Association also helps, and you get the latest updates on the legislative and judicial fronts:

http://isra.org/

ljnowell
May 17, 2012, 12:08 AM
ljnowell, you're thinking there has one big flaw in it...if it's within ANY of the 50 states then we're all "involved" in it, as long as ONE state still restricts our 2nd Amendment rights then the battle is still continuing. Illinois is already feeling the ill effects of people doing just as we advised, packing up and leaving rather than fight a fight they can't win against a corrupt "machine" that's decades old... a state that outlawed "novelty lighters", that passed a statute allowing you to pick up roadkill, and the latest news, that they want to charge everyone who's kid rides a bus to school $100 for the "privilege" to use the bus to get to their mandatory education classes. At some point the place is just going to collapse in on itself, maybe when it gets that bad they will hand it over to some high school economics class to run, they couldn't do any worse than the legislators that they end up with.

Glad ya'll left then. The rest of us will keep up our fight. I guess its a good thing no one picked up and left other states that had to fight to pass it. What about Wisconsin? This is just another pile on Illinois and complain thread. Almost as good as when California comes up.

writerinmo
May 17, 2012, 01:59 AM
I never "left" Illinois, I moved to Missouri from Kansas some years ago. Contemplated going to work over the line in Illinois until I found out that my CC permit wasn't any good over there.

What about Wisconsin? They have a concealed carry permit, and have issued over 100k permits as of April of this year and have a Castle Doctrine statute in effect. California has a concealed carry program, granted it's a "may issue" and it seems that most Sheriffs have agreed to limit permits, but there is still some sort of program in place.

Davey Wavey
May 17, 2012, 03:20 AM
Anyone not familiar with what we are doing over here has no place to answer this guys question. A couple responses to this thread have royally pissed me off!

We have TWO cases up for orals on June 8th. We will go to the Supreme Court if needed. Recent cases are being cited in our own cases, primarily Woollard.

We have TWO carry bills in the house.

We are also waiting for a task force report to be released any day now regarding their research in a change of the laws.

Yeah, all is lost. Give up. Move. Might as well, right? Whatever.

It only took a couple hundred years just to get the 2A to mean exactly what the hell it says it does.

C0untZer0
May 17, 2012, 11:31 AM
dbrown - it would help if you contacted your Illinois State Representative and asked them to support the Family and Personal Protection Act.

To find your state level officials, go here:

http://www.elections.il.gov/DistrictLocator/DistrictOfficialSearchByAddress.aspx

Fill out the address information exactly as you recieve mail. This screen is very picky about the data, so you may have to try a couple of different times. You'll get a listing of all your state officials as well as the Fed offices.

And you can get more info on the exact bill numbers and things at Illinois Carry:

http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?act=idx

writerinmo
May 17, 2012, 05:13 PM
You've had the same bills shot down by the governor for years, and don't have enough of a majority to override his veto...see, I DO read the papers...so why not focus on getting rid of Quinn since it's a dead end trail unless you elect enough 2nd friendly people to dislodge the current "cronyism" bunch? It'll take a heck of a lot of money to do that, since they get hand-fed from hundreds of special interest groups.

Paul7
May 17, 2012, 05:52 PM
Exactly, Quinn would just veto it, on orders from Emmanuel. So glad I moved from IL to the free state of NM, concealed carry, open carry, I carry a loaded Sig 220 next to me in the car console. I believe that would be a felony in IL. Half the state is National Forest or BLM, and so open to shooting.

There's a reason 700,000 people have left IL the last decade. It's CA without the good weather.

It isn't just the politicians, most of the people there are ignorant about guns. My wife's friend visited here a couple years ago, and before going on a hike in the mountains I strapped on a Ruger LCR. The friend practically started to hyperventilate.

stchman
May 17, 2012, 06:22 PM
I'm from Missouri and only 2 good things about Illinois:

Fast Eddie's
Strip Clubs

Warp
May 17, 2012, 06:23 PM
Illinois just doesn't "get it". My wife has family that lives there. The last time we visited I went shooting with one of her family members.

Even though I had a GA carry license I was not allowed to TOUCH a single firearm in the store. I took a peak at a lever action rifle...which I could conceivably buy and have shipped to a local FFL, based on the laws of other states/my state, but I could not lay a finger on the gun in the shop.

The range did not allow rapid fire. 1 shot per second. The range did not allow headshots on targets, and the signs VERY plainly made you aware of the fact that doing so would have to immediately removed from the premises. No humanoid targets, either. Those targets of Osama Bin Laden that were popular? Nope. Too human.

Besides that, Chicago runs the state, and Chicago is beyond corrupt and full of "do as I say not as I do" gun control advocates who want themselves, and only themselves (and their bodyguards), to be armed.

It's a lost cause. Get out when you can.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2012, 10:31 PM
Thanks for the encouragement... :)

We're going to keep fighting for a carry bill here. Hopefully any Illinois gun owners who aren't actively involved helping the Illinois State Rifle Association and actively involved in bringing about carry legislation in IL will get involved. These next two weeks could be crucial.

TyGuy
May 19, 2012, 10:36 PM
You can put us down or help us fight by supporting the ISRA . Before WI had CCW I did many events up there to push for CCW because I think all citizens should enjoy their roghts. I am even a member of WI Carry.

CZguy
May 19, 2012, 10:37 PM
We're going to keep fighting for a carry bill here. Hopefully any Illinois gun owners who aren't actively involved helping the Illinois State Rifle Association and actively involved in bringing about carry legislation in IL will get involved. These next two weeks could be crucial.

Hang in there. It's important to all of us that you win.

stonecutter2
May 19, 2012, 10:44 PM
Exactly, Quinn would just veto it, on orders from Emmanuel. So glad I moved from IL to the free state of NM, concealed carry, open carry, I carry a loaded Sig 220 next to me in the car console. I believe that would be a felony in IL. Half the state is National Forest or BLM, and so open to shooting.

There's a reason 700,000 people have left IL the last decade. It's CA without the good weather.

It isn't just the politicians, most of the people there are ignorant about guns. My wife's friend visited here a couple years ago, and before going on a hike in the mountains I strapped on a Ruger LCR. The friend practically started to hyperventilate.

The reaction of that person wasn't ignorance - you don't understand. Guns being carried/easily visible/talked about just is not common in this state. That doesn't make the person ignorant, it's that they have a different societal perspective on guns in public. That's because the political machine here has denied our rights for far too long.

Let's put it another way. Let's say segregation was alive and well, and strictly enforced in one state. A black person rarely left the state, but then when they did, they came to your "free state" and went with you to a restaurant...and were shocked when they could just go in and sit down to eat with whites. Would you call them ignorant? Probably not! I would hope that you'd find it sad they're in a state that denies them basic American rights, and perhaps inclined to do something to help/change their existence.

I live in Illinois. I am a member of ISRA. It is totally unacceptable that my basic Constitutional rights to keep and bear arms are denied. I don't care if Quinn will veto the bill, LITTER his desk with bills to veto. I'm ready to do whatever it takes to get these clowns to wake up and stop screwing us over.

Amongst all of the political rhetoric these days, this is actually a genuine opportunity to take part of America back for Americans. We have rights afforded to us by our founding fathers, and one critical right is denied to your fellow Americans in Illinois. Stop calling us ignorant and help us take our part of the country back in any way you can - write to YOUR politicians and tell them give Illinois reps/senators hell for being a backwards state. Anything will help - mocking us will not, though.

Grousefeather
May 19, 2012, 11:41 PM
Clean out your polliticians first. Then go for freedom.

splithoof
May 20, 2012, 12:10 AM
I believe you will eventually have CCW become common, as will ****************, but it takes a considerable amount of labor, sweat, and anguish over time. Consider that only a short while back Florida got the ball rolling much faster, much to the disdain of all the socialists. It will happen, and when it does we can all rejoice!

ljnowell
May 20, 2012, 12:26 AM
Illinois just doesn't "get it". My wife has family that lives there. The last time we visited I went shooting with one of her family members.

Even though I had a GA carry license I was not allowed to TOUCH a single firearm in the store. I took a peak at a lever action rifle...which I could conceivably buy and have shipped to a local FFL, based on the laws of other states/my state, but I could not lay a finger on the gun in the shop.

The range did not allow rapid fire. 1 shot per second. The range did not allow headshots on targets, and the signs VERY plainly made you aware of the fact that doing so would have to immediately removed from the premises. No humanoid targets, either. Those targets of Osama Bin Laden that were popular? Nope. Too human.

Besides that, Chicago runs the state, and Chicago is beyond corrupt and full of "do as I say not as I do" gun control advocates who want themselves, and only themselves (and their bodyguards), to be armed.

It's a lost cause. Get out when you can.


Yeah, and once again, thats totally not Illinois. Sorry you went to a crap range, but thats not the whole state. Illinois is actually overwhemingle conservative, except chicago. They just have enough votes to leave us out to dry.

I never "left" Illinois, I moved to Missouri from Kansas some years ago. Contemplated going to work over the line in Illinois until I found out that my CC permit wasn't any good over there.

What about Wisconsin? They have a concealed carry permit, and have issued over 100k permits as of April of this year and have a Castle Doctrine statute in effect. California has a concealed carry program, granted it's a "may issue" and it seems that most Sheriffs have agreed to limit permits, but there is still some sort of program in place.


And thats my point, you were too busy bashing Illinois to get it apparently. Wisconsin was in the same boat a two years ago. People saying "it will never happen, move out, wisconsin sucks, etc."

wriggly
May 20, 2012, 01:16 AM
You guys that are fighting the good fight.....Kudos brothers. To the naysayers, :neener:

I thought that at this late date, and the BS TPTB are trying to pull over on us, we would have learned to all pull together by now.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 01:24 AM
Yeah, and once again, thats totally not Illinois. Sorry you went to a crap range, but thats not the whole state. Illinois is actually overwhemingle conservative, except chicago. They just have enough votes to leave us out to dry.

It was totally in Illinois, though. I've been to a number of ranges in different states and nothing else comes close.

It wasn't in Chicago, of course, but it wasn't terribly far away from the city either. (don't know where)

Unfortunately if the entire Chicagoland area doesn't get it...Illinois doesn't get it...as I am sure you are painfully aware.

mako1001
May 20, 2012, 04:19 AM
uh yeah they already charge for the school bus and its 117 per year per child and taxes keep climbing as home values plummet.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 08:28 AM
ig·no·rant
   [ig-ner-uhnt] Show IPA

adjective
1.
lacking in knowledge or training; unlearned: an ignorant man.

2.
lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact: ignorant of quantum physics.

3.
uninformed; unaware.

4.
due to or showing lack of knowledge or training: an ignorant statement.

Calling someone ignorant is not the insult it sounds like. It means uneducated about a certain fact or issue. Everybody is ignorant about something in their lives and it just means you were never taught, shown or instructed.

I just moved from IL this past year. I lived there for 56 years so I have a view and opinion from experience. IL is run by the Democratic machine of the city. Cook County has more people than the rest of the state so how the city runs, the state runs. The idiot mayor who just left ruined it for the gun crowd and it seems his new apointee is even worse. However, if the rest of IL gets it's act together and a few of the gun people who are in power in the NE climb aboard then IL can join the rest of the states in carrying.

You can own and shoot guns in IL. Yes, get a FOID card and all is good. A recent ruling states that you can carry in your console (unloaded) and you can have as many guns as you wish. I was also a vendor at the local NE IL gun shows as well and the law is stupid about touching guns without the FOID card. I mean, come on! How dumb is that!

For the most part, IL is a good place to live if you stay outside of Cook County. Like anything else, you hear about all the bad and not much about the good and you form your opinions for one-sided facts. If IL ever passes a CC bill it will be a glorious day for all IL gun fans. Until then it will remain the only state without a LTC law on the books.

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 11:19 AM
Let's put it another way. Let's say segregation was alive and well, and strictly enforced in one state. A black person rarely left the state, but then when they did, they came to your "free state" and went with you to a restaurant...and were shocked when they could just go in and sit down to eat with whites. Would you call them ignorant? Probably not! I would hope that you'd find it sad they're in a state that denies them basic American rights, and perhaps inclined to do something to help/change their existence.
Let's say that that Black person SUPPORTED segregation and lynching. That's the mindset of Illoisians, especially Chicagoans.

My mother lived in Chicago for so long that she literally cannot CONCEIVE of NOT having third world levels of corruption.

I know Chicagoans who both SUPPORTED Chicago's handgun ban AND violated it by illegally owning handguns.

There's no "rule of law" there, only "clout" and the "combine". There aren't any "rights", just privileges conferred on the basis of influence, money and race.

Chicagoans are like North Koreans. They're not just serfs, they're PROUD to be serfs and can't imagine why everybody else doesn't want to be serfs. Black people repeatedly overwhelmingly elected as mayor the guy who was Cook County State's Attorney when savage torture of suspects by the Chicago PD was routine. And whom do you think were the vast majority of the victims? Finnish reindeer herders?

And THOSE are the people who control Illinois lock, stock and barrel. They're victims and they LIKE it.

As I've repeatedly said, there will NEVER be shall issue concealed carry in Illinois by ANY means other than SCOTUS decision.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 12:50 PM
They're victims and they LIKE it.

They like it or just don't know any different?
Big difference.
If that's all they know then how are they supposed to know it's not supposed to be that way? I've read that 80% of inner city dwellers never travel more than 5 miles from their home, including when they move out on their own. How do they learn how different it is in other places if they never venture there? That's why a college education is even more important for the inner city dwellers because it gets them out of their element and exposes them to other ways of life as well as the book part. How can you want change if you don't know what to change to?

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 01:52 PM
They like it or just don't know any different?
Big difference.
Unlike North Koreans, not only are they not prevented from seeing the United States on TV any time they want, they can actually VISIT it without requesting anybody's permission.

Not only don't some of them know, some of them don't WANT to know.

Go back through this and similar threads here and on other message boards.

When you post the IRREFUTABLE truth about their lack of rights IN GENERAL, GUN OWNERS from Illinois, and especially Chicago will simply retrench and tell you that the right not just to carry, but to OWN isn't that important... in fact NOT as important as having a "rich" restaurant culture and winning sports teams.

It's not JUST ignorance. It's also CULTURE, and specifically a culture of corruption and malice. I know, I grew up in it.

Chicagoans take a perverse pride in their diminution as citizens. That's a thousand times harder to fight than mere ignorance.

And again, those are the people who hold absolute sway over Illinois, not just in terms of gun control, but a whole host of other issues.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 02:07 PM
A recent ruling states that you can carry in your console

Link please?

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 02:12 PM
Originally Posted by larrh1101
A recent ruling states that you can carry in your console
Link please?
It's not NEARLY as simple as that, and involves UNLOADED carry.

Abundant examples and the experiences of others, some of whom I've communicated with, has convinced me to NEVER carry with an unloaded chamber. How can carrying with an unloaded chamber and an EMPTY MAGAZINE WELL be any better?

Warp
May 20, 2012, 02:21 PM
It's not NEARLY as simple as that, and involves UNLOADED carry.

I suspected as much. I mean, we're talking about Illinois here.

C0untZer0
May 20, 2012, 03:03 PM
The Illinois Supreme Court ruled on 10/8/2009 (Docket # 106367) that the Center Console of a vehicle was a case and a firearm could be carried in the closed Center Console.

http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/supremecourt/2009/october/106367.pdf

People v. Holmes, Ill. Supreme Court, Docket # 109130, Opinion filed 4/7/11. The defendant owner/driver of a motor vehicle, an Indiana resident who had been issued a carry license by his home state, was stopped by Chicago police officers for a traffic violation. Pursuant to a search, a 9 mm handgun was recovered from a backseat armrest of the car. The Court noted that “[t]he armrest separated the two back seats and contained a storage compartment that closed with a latch. The compartment could be folded up into the seat or left in a down position.

Illinois State Supreme Court found for the defendant in this case.

http://www.state.il.us/court/opinions/SupremeCourt/2011/April/109130.pdf

Warp
May 20, 2012, 03:07 PM
And when that happens again to somebody else...will the police avoid action as a result of the court's rulings?

And I assume that still has to be unloaded and the whole deal. Not stating that, but simply saying that you "can carry in your console" is woefully misleading.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 04:05 PM
Carrying an unloaded gun in your console and having a loaded mag nearby is as good as it gets in IL. It beats not being able to have any handgun anywhere in the passenger cabin. Yes, you do have to insert the magazine and rack the slide but I'll take that over asking the BG to wait while I get my gun from the trunk and it is still unloaded. With practice, you can be fully armed and ready in 4 or 5 seconds if needed. Yes, that is still too long but it's better than no choice.

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 04:20 PM
Carrying an unloaded gun in your console and having a loaded mag nearby is as good as it gets in IL. It beats not being able to have any handgun anywhere in the passenger cabin. Yes, you do have to insert the magazine and rack the slide but I'll take that over asking the BG to wait while I get my gun from the trunk and it is still unloaded. With practice, you can be fully armed and ready in 4 or 5 seconds if needed. Yes, that is still too long but it's better than no choice.
Having the planes lined up wingtip to wingtip at Hickam Field was better than having no planes at all, but how well did that work in practice?

There was a guy a year or two ago in the Dayton area who was jumped by a couple of freaks while pumping gas. They hit him from front and rear simultaneously. He managed to free one arm, draw his firearm and shoot one of his assailants. By his own admission, had he had to chamber around, he probably would NOT have prevailed.

He didn't have four or five seconds.

bob barker
May 20, 2012, 04:25 PM
+1 with writerinmo,

we stopped going to Illinois too, no Fast Eddy's, Spencer T. Olin golf, what-ever. Usually about 20 - 25 guys, 4 or 5 times a year. Life's too short, gotta go where you're welcome.
I live in Houston and travel to St. Louis for buisness quite a bit. I was taken to Fast Eddies by a few associates. Wow! What a time warp, burgers for $.99, beer for $1.50! It was quite the experience.
(Thread Jack off)
Other than that, I stay away from Illinois. Missouri seems a lot like Texas concerning guns though.

C0untZer0
May 20, 2012, 05:22 PM
Here is the link to the law:

http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/ilcs4.asp?DocName=072000050HArt%2E+24&ActID=1876&ChapterID=53&SeqStart=62900000&SeqEnd=65800000

ARTICLE 24. DEADLY WEAPONS

(720 ILCS 5/24-1) (from Ch. 38, par. 24-1)
Sec. 24-1. Unlawful Use of Weapons.

(a) A person commits the offense of unlawful use of weapons when he knowingly:

4) Carries or possesses in any vehicle or concealed on or about his person except when on his land or in his own abode, legal dwelling, or fixed place of business, or on the land or in the legal dwelling of another person as an invitee with that person's permission, any pistol, revolver, stun gun or taser or other firearm, except that this subsection (a) (4) does not apply to or affect transportation of weapons that meet one of the following conditions:

(i) are broken down in a non-functioning state; or
(ii) are not immediately accessible; or
(iii) are unloaded and enclosed in a case, firearm carrying box, shipping box, or other container by a person who has been issued a currently valid Firearm Owner's Identification Card;

C0untZer0
May 20, 2012, 05:41 PM
When you post the IRREFUTABLE truth about their lack of rights IN GENERAL, GUN OWNERS from Illinois, and especially Chicago will simply retrench and tell you that the right not just to carry, but to OWN isn't that important... in fact NOT as important as having a "rich" restaurant culture and winning sports teams.

I personally have never heard Illinois gun owners say that having good restaurants and winning sports teams is more important than the right to carry.

And if anyone is arguing that if gun rights really mattered to Illinois gun owners they'd move out of the state - that's a specious argument.

I'm glad Dick Heller didn't decide to just move out of DC, and I'm glad Otis McDonald didn't decide to just move out of Illinois.

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 06:16 PM
I personally have never heard Illinois gun owners say that having good restaurants and winning sports teams is more important than the right to carry.
I have, and on several occasions, especially the cheerleaders for Apartheid Chicago. They'll cheerfully tell you how it doesn't matter anyway, since it's so "safe" in "most" of the city.

Those five women in that Tinley Park clothing store didn't find it so safe.

It's a mindset I find utterly alien... along with most value systems in place in Chicago and Illinois.

loose noose
May 20, 2012, 06:25 PM
I've never lived in Illinois, fact is I was born and raised in Wisconsin. I do hope that the Illinois gun owners are successful in getting their corrupt politicians to heck out of office. Since I was a Police Officer in Southern California, I've allways carried CCW, but I absolutely refuse to drive thru Illinois when going back to the Packer State from Nevada. My youger sister and her husband lived in Chicago, and subsequently retired their. Shortly thereafter they moved to Indiana. Not because of the archaic gun laws, but because of the lower taxes. Both are now deceased and to my knowledge never ever owned a firearm. Thus the mindset!:confused:

Midwest
May 20, 2012, 06:32 PM
I once read a suggestion elsewhere, that in order for Illinois to have a conceal carry law successfully passed and signed into law is to have Chicago excluded from the conceal carry permit in order to guarantee passage of the bill.

I believe the whole state should be included in the carry permit legislation, with no exceptions for Chicago. The real solution to Illinois gun control issues are to elect Pro 2A politicians in and around Chicago.

Short of that...what are your opinions on excluding Chicago just in order to have the bill pass? (Not that I agree with it)

fehhkk
May 20, 2012, 06:40 PM
Not everyone from IL thinks like the Chicago liberals. Don't put everyone down to their levels.

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 06:52 PM
Not everyone from IL thinks like the Chicago liberals. Don't put everyone down to their levels.
Not every liberal from Chicago "thinks" like the Chicago "liberals".

Not everyone in Iran thinks like Ayatollah Khamenei.

But in both cases, they're all subject to the whims of their ruling class.

I would no more live in Illinois than I'd live in Iran. I have no greater desire to visit either.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 07:56 PM
There's 7 million people who live in Cook County. I find it amusing that people who do not live in IL have such a strong opinion about something they heard from a small handful of people who do live there.

If excluding CC from Chicago is the only way to get it in IL then what's the issue? Doesn't the rest of the state deserve the right as well? It's funny how some waive their flag and state, simply, that they should just vote in 2A friendly politicians. Yeah, sure, and where are these people? Last election I specifically voted for any candidate who were pro gun. Of course, they lost. Why? Because the blind sheep only know how it's been and they just show up at the polls and pull the Democratic lever because that's how they've always done it, that's how their parents always did it and that's how their grand parents always did it. A Daley has run the city since the 50s and this new clown may as well be a Daley because he made concessions to get the blessing of the previous regime who still has pull. It's about clout and politics and no one knows how to change what they don't know needs to be changed.

NYS has some horrible laws as well. Try to get a CC permit in NYC yet it's 1000x easier to get one upstate. All of the major metropolitans have more cumbersome laws in place to keep the average Joe from having a permit to carry. It's not just IL or Chicago, it's everywhere. If they want to exclude Chicago to get a carry law then so-be-it. Chicagoans don't know enough to care and don't want to become informed because they don't care. They just don't care and the rest of the state is held hostage. They just live the way they always have and just pull that Democratic lever and life goes on.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 08:26 PM
There's 7 million people who live in Cook County. I find it amusing that people who do not live in IL have such a strong opinion about something they heard from a small handful of people who do live there.

For the record I grew up in Lake County (Lake County IN, that is, which is literally adjacent to Lake County IL, my public elementary school took multiple field trips to Chicago), my wife is from Chicagoland, we still have family in Chicagoland, and we still visit Chicagoland (specifically, the metropolitan statistical area that chicago is in). I am very much aware of what goes on up there. (for somebody who lives elsewhere)

All of the major metropolitans have more cumbersome laws in place to keep the average Joe from having a permit to carry. It's not just IL or Chicago, it's everywhere

It most certainly is not everywhere.

It gets complicated because the metropolitan statistical areas often cross state lines. These colored MSAs are shall issue (or no permit required). The MSAs that are this color are no issue. These are "may issue"

Here is a list of the top metropolitan statistical areas in the country.

1 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island
2 Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana
3 Chicago–Joliet–Naperville
4 Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington
5 Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown
6 Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington
7 Washington–Arlington–Alexandria
8 Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach
9 Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta
10 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy
11 San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont
12 Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario
13 Detroit–Warren–Livonia
14 Phoenix–Mesa–Glendale
15 Seattle–Tacoma–Bellevue
16 Minneapolis–St. Paul–Bloomington
17 San Diego–Carlsbad–San Marcos
18 Tampa–St. Petersburg–Clearwater
19 St. Louis, MO–IL
20 Baltimore–Towson, MD
21 Denver–Aurora–Broomfield
22 Pittsburgh, PA
23 Portland–Vancouver–Hillsboro
24 San Antonio–New Braunfels
25 Sacramento–Arden–Arcade–Roseville
26 Orlando–Kissimmee–Sanford
27 Cincinnati-Middletown
28 Cleveland-Elyria-Mentor
29 Kansas City
30 Las Vegas-Paradise


That's an awful lot of "shall issue", even in the largest MSAs



.

Deanimator
May 20, 2012, 08:37 PM
There's 7 million people who live in Cook County. I find it amusing that people who do not live in IL have such a strong opinion about something they heard from a small handful of people who do live there.
I was born and raised in Apartheid Chicago. I lived there until I joined the Army. I lived there for about two years after getting out of the Army. I still have relatives in and around the city. Don't tell me I don't know about Chicago.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 09:35 PM
Here is a list of the top metropolitan statistical areas in the country.

Thank you for your list and provong my point. It's funny but the top 3 metropolitan areas are may issue or no issue. You ever try to get a CC permit in NYC and LA? Seriously? So, your list looks awesome but it fails to show the total number of people affected instead of the number of cities listed. I'd be willing to bet if you add up the top 3 plus DC's total population that it is more than the rest of the list combined. That's a lot of people who are affected by local politics.

As for the gentleman who compared living in Chicago proper versus living in Iran AND you served in the military, well, all I can say is wow. Not wow as in awe but wow as in disbelief you'd make a statement like that.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 09:39 PM
Like it or not, admit it or not, your point was disproven. You said all of the major metro areas were restrictive. I showed they are not.

Perhaps you should change your statement to "the three largest metro areas are restrictive"

I'd be willing to bet if you add up the top 3 plus DC's total population that it is more than the rest of the list combined.

You would lose that bet.

wep45
May 20, 2012, 09:59 PM
I'm from Illinois and is wondering if the state is trying to make progress on citizens being able to get a ccw.

YOU need to write to all state, county and local elected officials on a regular basis and convey your displeasure that the people of illinois can not join the other united states and CCW.:fire:

government needs to hear from the people more often.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 10:07 PM
All of the major metropolitans have more cumbersome laws in place to keep the average Joe from having a permit to carry. It's not just IL or Chicago, it's everywhere.

Yep, you sure did get me. Selective quotes sure do make it seem that way. I guess I should have said more people who live in major metro areas are affected. That is the bottom line and the gyst of my statement. MAJOR metropolitan areas do not care about RKBA. They are all about their own missions and agendas and the people don't have much of a choice. You can move out of Chicago without moving out of IL. IL, as a whole, is a nice place to live. If they ever get a CC law in place it will make it a very nice place to live. You can't judge any state by their CC laws alone although it is very important to us on these boards. Unfortunately, the slient majority are apathetic to our desires. They've been brainwashed and do not know any better.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 10:08 PM
Yep, you sure did get me. Selective quotes sure do make it seem that way. I guess I should have said more people who live in major metro areas are affected. That is the bottom line and the gyst of my statement. MAJOR metropolitan areas do not care about RKBA. They are all about their own missions and agendas and the people don't have much of a choice. You can move out of Chicago without moving out of IL. IL, as a whole, is a nice place to live. If they ever get a CC law in place it will make it a very nice place to live. You can't judge any state by their CC laws alone although it is very important to us on these boards. Unfortunately, the slient majority are apathetic to our desires. They've been brainwashed and do not know any better.

And by "MAJOR metro areas" what you mean is "the 3 largest metro areas". After all, the 4th and 5th largest metro areas are shall issue, as is the major city (Philly) in the 6th, part of the 7th, and all of 8th and 9th.

A very major portion of how I judge a state is by the carry laws. When my now-wife was graduating college and looking for a job I absolutely boycott Illinois, as a state, as a result of that law. No jobs in IL were even looked at. Georgia, however, got the green light. Gun laws were instrumental to where we moved.

I realize most people won't do it that way.

If IL can get a shall issue carry law in place, AND get rid of the FOID card and related silliness, then rural IL will be a lot like rural IN, which would be great and I would be happy to live there.

larryh1108
May 20, 2012, 10:17 PM
You would lose that bet.
Perhaps, but not the point.
Do you understand what shall issue vs may issue means?

1 New York–Northern New Jersey–Long Island
2 Los Angeles–Long Beach–Santa Ana
3 Chicago–Joliet–Naperville
4 Dallas–Fort Worth–Arlington
5 Houston–Sugar Land–Baytown
6 Philadelphia–Camden–Wilmington
7 Washington–Arlington–Alexandria
8 Miami–Fort Lauderdale–Pompano Beach
9 Atlanta–Sandy Springs–Marietta
10 Boston–Cambridge–Quincy
11 San Francisco–Oakland–Fremont
12 Riverside–San Bernardino–Ontario

3 are in CA. May issue? ok. May. It may snow tomorrow too.
NYC/NJ. May issue? yeah, ok. gotcha
Boston? May issue. yep, may or maybe not.
Chicago and D.C.- yeah, go for it.

Come on, admit that living in a major metro area makes it difficult, if not impossible, to get a CC permit in "quite a few of them" (better?). Why are you splitting hairs? Your data shows it's true but now we have to play the semantics game. No thanks, not interested. Arguing for the sake of arguing makes no sense on a forum like this.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 10:24 PM
I do not believe that going from "it's the same everywhere" to "it's the same in some of them" is significantly differently.

I live in a major metropolitan area and have no problem getting a carry license. That makes it hard for me to avoid saying something when you convince yourself Chicago really isn't so bad because "everywhere" is like that.

Yes, the top three largest metro areas make it almost impossible to get a carry license.

But only Chicago requires a gun owners to register themselves to legally possess so much as a single round of ammunition. :(

C0untZer0
May 20, 2012, 10:25 PM
We've had the other side float possible deals that excluded either Chicago, Cook County or Chicago and a few municipalities - like Oak Park.

The Illinois State Rifle Association and our NRA lobbyist rejected it, and well they should.

We'll fight together and we'll win or lose together - it's like Benjamin Franklin said - "We must, indeed, all hang together, or most assuredly we shall all hang separately."

I don't like going without CCW but by God I won't be part of selling out my fellow gun owners in Chicago.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 10:27 PM
I don't know which side to take on the above.

I really do thin, though, that if the rest of IL wants to get carry licenses they will have to be "may issue" or Chicago will have to be granted "home rule" so that they can continue to ban and restrict what they want within their borders. Otherwise I just see a whole lot more of the "lose together".

Generally I don't like that kind of strategy, but in this case...I just don't see anything else happening. Just like I didn't see carry in WI for as long as Doyle was there.

JERRY
May 20, 2012, 10:31 PM
Nobody cared to get ccw laws in illinois for the people back when it was possible. Now it is far too late to do so.


ALEXANDRIA AND ARLINGTON ARE IN VIRGINIA AND NOT SUBJECT TO WASH D.C. LAW. THEY ARE PART OF THE FREE STATES.

JERRY
May 20, 2012, 10:35 PM
And not to be out done, maryland, new jerseystan and hawaii are worse than illinois because they have the laws to give people the illusion of ccw but just dont issue them out (to the everyday people).

Warp
May 20, 2012, 10:40 PM
In the end I do believe that "May Issue" is worse than no issue. With May Issue all you end up doing, in a lot of areas, is create a special class of citizen that is either rich, famous, or politically corrupted (err, I mean connected) enough to be granted the permit that nobody else can get.

Just ask, who is is, Dianna Frankenstein who is licensed to carry but is otherwise dead set against people being armed, in every way she possibly can.

Midwest
May 21, 2012, 05:27 AM
And not to be out done, maryland, new jerseystan and hawaii are worse than illinois because they have the laws to give people the illusion of ccw but just dont issue them out (to the everyday people).

The better term for Maryland, New Jersey and Hawaii is "May Not Issue" instead of "May Issue" as that is too misleading...

BTW: Illinois got their idea for the FOID (Firearms Owner ID card) from New Jersey's 1966 FID (Firearms ID card) law. Illinois instituted theirs in 1968. Massachusetts saw NJ and Illinois having a permit system and decided to their own FID requirement soon after.

The anti-gunners go much further back than Hand Gun Control Inc or Sarah Brady. Arthur Sills, an attorney general for New Jersey was responsible for passage of New Jersey's FID law in 1966 which was a draconian martial law approach against law abiding gun owners in NJ. He used terms like "reasonable and safety" in the public hearings for his gun control scheme which became law in NJ two years before 1968 GCA.

Seems inspiration for anti-gun politicians and laws could be traced to this East Coast AG in 1966. Someone needs to write a book on the anti-gun politicians and the culture in the 1960's. There are a lot stories that need to be told on how why states like New Jersey and Illinois ended up like they did.

Pilot
May 21, 2012, 08:55 AM
Illinois. The ************ of the Midwest. :fire:

627PCFan
May 21, 2012, 10:13 AM
"And not to be out done, maryland, new jerseystan and hawaii are worse than illinois because they have the laws to give people the illusion of ccw but just dont issue them out (to the everyday people). "

Things are changing in MD, slowly...... A judge has overrulled the "good and substancial reason to carry" clause.

http://marylandshallissue.org/

If you cant get it done politically, take it to the courts and jam it down their throats.

DonP
May 21, 2012, 01:12 PM
The momentum is swinging away from Chicago very quickly by political standards. Don't expect Rahm or Chicago to embrace CCW, but look for him to quietly drop the Chicago $$$ lawsuits and accept the inevitable.

Just last year there's no way the media would have even reported a story like this.

http://www.cinewsnow.com/news/local/Civil-Rights-Organization-heard-from-concealed-carry-supporters-151981475.html

Civil Rights Organization (NAACP) hears from concealed carry supporter (Otis McDonald)

By Paul Strater
May 17, 2012 Updated May 17, 2012 at 10:22 PM CDT

PEORIA, Ill -- It was a case of politics making for strange bedfellows Thursday night in Peoria. A person supporting concealed carry of firearms speaking at a meeting of the NAACP. Otis McDonald was the lead plaintiff in the landmark Supreme Court case that overturned the City of Chicago's de facto ban on handguns.

A diverse crowd packed the association's downtown Peoria headquarters and even included a local tea party activist. McDonald told the crowd how the court's decision in his favor was explained to him.

"June 28, 2010, the Supreme Court said Otis, you're right. He then said the law in Chicago that says you cannot have a gun in your home for self protection, that is wrong. But it will be no more," said McDonald.

The chapter's president says he felt it was important for his membership to hear all sides of the issue.

"We wanted to bring the issue to the people of the City if Peoria so they could make up their own minds as to whether or not concealed carry is good for the people of the State of Illinois and therefore the City of Peoria. So that's the reason we wanted to invite Mr. McDonald down to talk about it," said Donald Jackson.


The issue enjoys broad downstate support in both parties.


For the second year in a row we had around 10,000 people in Springfield for I-GOLD in March and several "Chicago" based votes are being changed based on "Town Meetings" in different neighborhoods like Chatham, Pilsen and Englewood. We lost by 6 votes on CCW, veto override and state wide preemption. We're down to needing only 3 votes now.

It's fortunate for some of your states that you didn't have quitters like some of here seem to be when it came up for a vote.

"Just move", that's great advice and so constructive.

fehhkk
June 16, 2012, 10:44 PM
Wow, it's incredible that the NAACP would actually even consider this. This is good.

denton
June 17, 2012, 12:19 PM
You have to remember that the early "gun control" laws were specifically designed to disarm the blacks. In Chicago, they were designed to disarm people who might resist union enforcers.

Condoleeza Rice speaks very forcefully about the fact that her father needed and had a personal firearm.

Heller and McDonald will slowly come into full force over the next decade or two. It will take scores of lawsuits to undo the worst of our gun laws. In the end, I expect that nationwide laws like California's that forbids the purchase of firearms not on the approved list, and Illinois' FOID card will go the way of the dodo. It will take time, but it will happen. And Chicago will probably resist and block at every opportunity.

One of my adult daughters went to DC for a get-together with women her age in her husband's family. One of them practically fainted when it came up that she has a gun at home. A lot of people in metropolitan cultures learned all they know about guns by watching TV and going to the movies. If you think about it, most action film plots revolve around a bad person doing bad things with a gun, and an official person with a gun setting things right. On the screen, ordinary people don't have guns. Guns are reserved for criminals and the police and military. And cowboys who lived more that 100 years ago. And Indians.

floorit76
June 17, 2012, 12:36 PM
I heard Otis speak at IGOLD a few years ago. He is a soft spoken fellow, but gets his point accross well enough. I'm glad to see that the NAACP gave him the opportunity to speak. The black comunity fell for gun control hook line and sinker for a long time, but they are starting to see the light. Another IGOLD speaker from this year was a black lady that had been dragged into an abandoned house by a group of men, she jumped out of a 2nd story window to escape the assult. She later decided to buy a gun to prevent similar situations in the future. She later had to use that gun in a home invasion. These folks are wonderful embassadors for our cause in comunity's that normally are pretty anti gun. I hope they keep up the good work.

KevinR
November 9, 2012, 02:27 PM
Indiana here, it is a pane to have laws so different just a stones throw away.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 02:39 PM
Pain. ;)

mdauben
November 9, 2012, 02:54 PM
Indiana here, it is a pane to have laws so different just a stones throw away.
I know! I still have friends and family in IL. When I go to visit I can carry as I drive through AL-TN-KY-IN but as soon as I hit the IL border I need to disarm. Stupid IL.

Warp
November 9, 2012, 03:49 PM
I grew up in Lake County Indiana. I could be in downtown Chicago in 45 minutes with good traffic.

What a night and day difference it was to drive west.

Trad Archer
November 9, 2012, 06:29 PM
I have turned down opportunities to bowhunt whitetails in Illinois just because I refuse to spend a dime in that state. Chicago can sink into Lake Michigan for all I care.

armoredman
November 9, 2012, 07:15 PM
I was stationed in Chicago back in 86-87 at Great Mistakes. I spent some time wandering Rush Street, and up across the border to Sunny's bar. Being in the Navy, I wasn't worried about carrying - there was no possible way I could get a legal firearm on base/in the state, so it didn't even cross my mind. I just couldn't stand that city. Never really made it "downstate" to see the rest of the place, so, yes, my IL experiences are 99.9% Chicago based.
As for hang in there, YES...here in AZ we have a far different culture when it comes to firearms, because we had basically unrestricted open carry since the place had the signs put up over 100 years ago. BUT, we had never had CCW, and nobody figured we ever would, until some guys with Brassroots and other local organizations like our current champion, AZCDL, and voila! We had CCW in 1994. 16 years later in 2010, we had Constitutional Carry, and the laws get better each year. Once you GET that ball rolling, KEEP PUSHING!
BTW, sorry, I just can't let this one go...
.. in fact NOT as important as having a "rich" restaurant culture and winning sports teams.
You mean other than baseball, right? :D

JTHunter
November 10, 2012, 12:40 AM
If those of you in Illinois want to have a "show of force" in an effort to effect a change, you might want to consider going to the IGOLD rally which should be sometime next March.

Last year, they estimated over 8500 people were at the rally. It pleases me to tell you that, not only did I go and march the 8 blocks from the Convention Center to the Capitol Building, so did my 83 y.o. mother!

If she can do it, YOU can too!

Here's a link to the video shot by the local TV/radio station.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=wODJ4CAPbbg

(At 1:38-1:43, look in the upper left corner for a woman with light gray hair in a white jacket. That's her!) :D

Trent
November 10, 2012, 08:44 AM
Supermajority is needed to pass with home rule AND get past the Governor's veto (Quinn isn't gun friendly: http://www.wbez.org/story/quinn-threatens-veto-concealed-carry-bill-if-general-assembly-approves-it-86011)

This means it needs 71 votes to pass. It got 65.

Last year the chips fell as follows. House vote on concealed carry:

* By party
Party, yes, no, present
Democrats, 14, 49, 1
Republicans, 51, 3, 0

* By region
Region, yes, no, present
Chicago, 1, 30, 1
Chicago suburbs, 25, 20, 0
Downstate 39, 2, 0

Where's the 6 votes we need? Only 2 downstate. Which means at least 4 more of the votes need to come from the suburbs (tough) or Chicago proper (even tougher.) There's only 3 republicans which voted against it, so even if they're brought in line, that still leaves 3 more democrats that have to be "flipped."

Also, note the balance of power:

Chicago: 32 votes
Chicago Suburbs: 45 votes

Chicago area votes: 77 votes
Downstate votes: 41 votes


What's the answer? It's sure as hell not downstate. We can march every day in Springfield and not make one bit of difference to the outcome of this.

If iGold wants to do something that'll get attention, shut down the damn streets of downtown Chicago with 9,000 people marching, with their voices echoing off the buildings. Let your voices bounce off the windows of the mayor's lofty office in the sky.

March in the suburbs, where those swing votes are that we so desperately need.

Marching in Springfield is a waste of time. Might as well be spitting in the wind.

beatledog7
November 10, 2012, 10:26 AM
Major metropolitan areas drove the 2008 and 2012 Presidential election results, and that trend will only deepen. It's no accident that big city voters control entire states.

mgkdrgn
November 10, 2012, 10:30 AM
I'm from Illinois and is wondering if the state is trying to make progress on citizens being able to get a ccw.
he he he, hahahahhha, hehehe

no

Deanimator
November 10, 2012, 10:42 AM
If iGold wants to do something that'll get attention, shut down the damn streets of downtown Chicago with 9,000 people marching, with their voices echoing off the buildings. Let your voices bounce off the windows of the mayor's lofty office in the sky.
That's not likely to accomplish much besides getting you beaten half to death by the Chicago Police Department.

Face it, Illinois is a lost cause.

You've got a better chance of getting chit'lins declared the national dish of Saudi Arabia.

Maybe in 10-15 years when Chicago has gone bankrupt, has no more social services and starts hemmorhaging population, downstate will have the vote count. Until then you are and will continue dancing to the Daley/Emmanuel tune.

floorit76
November 10, 2012, 10:43 AM
http://i538.photobucket.com/albums/ff343/floorit76/Mobile%20Uploads/utf-8BSU1HLTIwMTIwMzA3LTAwMTI0LmpwZw.jpg

mg.mikael
November 10, 2012, 01:28 PM
Maybe in 10-15 years when Chicago has gone bankrupt...

Actually Chicago is already bankrupt and so is the state, with hundreds of millions in unpaid loans and pensions calling it 'debt' is an understatement. Yes while they haven't officially declared bankruptcy in the courts, it's only a matter of time before that formality is met.

Yet people never seem to learn that re-electing the same criminals into office solves nothing. Oh well, can't fix stupidity(or the public schools).

Deanimator
November 10, 2012, 01:32 PM
Actually Chicago is already bankrupt and so is the state, with hundreds of millions in unpaid loans and pensions calling it 'debt' is an understatement. Yes while they haven't officially declared bankruptcy in the courts, it's only a matter of time before that formality is met.
When the freebes are gone and there is NEITHER work nor welfare, population will decline and you'll have a shot... but NOT before then.

mg.mikael
November 10, 2012, 01:40 PM
When the freebes are gone and there is NEITHER work nor welfare, population will decline and you'll have a shot... but NOT before then.

You hit that right on the nail, hopefully the state won't be given anymore loans and the hand-outs dry up. Then it's only a matter of time before the bums and riff-raff go elsewhere for their so called "welfare".

larryh1108
November 10, 2012, 04:56 PM
IL has been politically corrupt for over 100 years. Look at how many recent govenors have served prison time. The only way to get a bill passed is to pay all of the people who do the voting. I don't think there is enough money to pull that off.

Deanimator
November 10, 2012, 04:58 PM
You hit that right on the nail, hopefully the state won't be given anymore loans and the hand-outs dry up. Then it's only a matter of time before the bums and riff-raff go elsewhere for their so called "welfare".
My educated guess would be California, which is already to 2012 America what Bavaria was to 1919 Germany, namely a collecting point for all of the ultra-leftwing and ultra-rightwing whackjobs in the country.

spm
November 10, 2012, 06:53 PM
Missouri is next door. We have both open and vehicle carry without a permit and concealed carry with. Always looking for more enthusiasts to help in the polls. I'd even introduce you around.

Trent
November 11, 2012, 02:24 AM
I've got friends enough in Missouri, and Indiana both.

Problem is uprooting my family and business. My business isn't portable (datacenters), I need to be close to my servers.

Until I open a branch in Missouri, anyway. I hear you have some really nifty nuclear missile comm bunkers down there that are up for sale. Would make a neat hardened datacenter someday. Plus, I wouldn't need to ever worry about "bugging out" if a thermonuclear weapon could go off over my head without it causing a ripple in my coffee cup. :)

Cactus Jack Arizona
November 11, 2012, 02:47 AM
Yeah, you shouldn't hold your breath waiting for this to happen.

Deanimator
November 11, 2012, 09:18 AM
Missouri is next door. We have both open and vehicle carry without a permit and concealed carry with. Always looking for more enthusiasts to help in the polls. I'd even introduce you around.
I went to college in Missouri and have relatives there (whom I haven't seen in forty years). I like Ohio, but if I could find a decent IT job there, I'd move.

wow6599
November 11, 2012, 09:30 AM
Every day it seems there are more and more Illinois plates driving around my neck of the woods (p.s. - transer your plates and pay your MO taxes!).

I welcome everyone from the Republic of Illinois to move to the free state of Missouri, but leave your liberal ideology behind.

Neo-Luddite
November 11, 2012, 09:34 AM
It takes time, and the ISRA and like minds are making progress.

As much as I like the Southwest, my family and deep roots are here.
We aren't going anywhere and why should we.

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