What would you have done?


PDA






exbrit49
May 16, 2012, 09:53 PM
Went down to the range with my wife today and we were shooting pistol off hand at 25 yards,
We were just about done when we saw a couple of guys waiting at the 100 yard shack. We finished up our relay and went back to the 50 yard line to pack up our stuff.
We were just loading the bags when I looked at the 100 yard shack and saw a guy all dressed in black pointing what appeared to be an AR15 down the range in our direction. I hollered very loudly at him “to point that "Expletive Deleted" AR15 at the ground and preferably lay it on the bench!” He shouted back we are just taking photos, I said I don’t care if you are playing tiddly winks, you don’t point a firearm down the range while people are there!
I was pretty hot under the collar as I don’t like seeing the barrel of any firearm pointed in my direction. I left the range and went home and cooled down, after more thought I decided to see if I could find any club officers and go and address the issue with the gentleman.
I found the club president and we went back down to the range and spoke to the individual, his response was “it wasn’t loaded!” I stayed calm and explained that I didn’t care it if was checked 10 times. YOU DON’T POINT ANY FIREAM AT ANY ONE, ANY TIME!
The president took his card and made a note of his name and said this is a formal warning, NO MORE INCIDENTS of this type or you are going to be banned.
The guy did apologize and also asked me pass an apology to my wife. I accepted the apology and said I just wanted to be sure that he would never repeat the incident, that’s how accident happen. We shook hands and I felt that he had learned a very valuable lesson.
How would you guys have handled it?
PS Yes it was an AR15!
Roger

If you enjoyed reading about "What would you have done?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
MachIVshooter
May 16, 2012, 10:00 PM
I think your reaction was a poor one. That kind of behavior can easily be the catalyst for an altercation. Firm but polite is the way to handle it. If he'd fired a round in your direction, different story. But he didn't.

mljdeckard
May 16, 2012, 10:05 PM
.....I dunno. With the distance, and the fact that people were wearing ear pro, yelling might have been the only way.

I used to be passive about rule-breakers. Not anymore. I have started calling store managers, and standing up to morons who out-rank me.

Lex Luthier
May 16, 2012, 10:13 PM
I believe that I might have walked directly up to the guy and asked if he always ignored the cold line. He obviously needed some behavioral guidance, and perhaps a range officer was not necessary to enlighten him. And yes, sometimes yelling is the only way to make a point.

As an AR guy, I am kind of embarrassed sometimes by other AR guys, and this is one of those times.

paintballdude902
May 16, 2012, 10:14 PM
it was unloaded.......... this time

my life is more important than anyones feelings

303tom
May 16, 2012, 10:24 PM
Sounds like you did just fine.............

mnrivrat
May 16, 2012, 10:34 PM
Every one makes mistakes - including you . How do you want to be treated when you foul up ?

Personaly I agree with MachIV . You didn't need the curse word to get the point across, and it just sets up the event for an altercation.

exbrit49
May 16, 2012, 10:46 PM
Yep we all make mistakes but not potentially life threating ones, How would I want to be corrected? To be honest I would want to be told in no short order! Cuss words included.
If I screw up on the range I want to be told and I dont care how! Its not the place to screw up.
I was very calm with him when I went back and accepted his apology and felt he did learn something, What was I supposed to do walk my wife back up the range with an AR15 pointing at us?
I dont think so!

Agsalaska
May 16, 2012, 11:06 PM
Hard to say if you did right or wrong. I probably would have reacted the same way. You could have been dead in an instant. Probably not the time to be polite. But I also see the point made about provocation.


Was he a young shooter? Hopefully he learned a valuable lesson today and not only does not make the same mistake again but encourages safe handling of firearms. 'Its not loaded' is how people get killed.

Erik M
May 16, 2012, 11:25 PM
Wouldn't have been my choice of words, having worked in retail during college and law enforcement the last 3 years I know for a fact that "expletives" only serve to escalate situations. I wouldn't belong to a range that allowed people to stand around the booths and pose for photo's for starters.

ApacheCoTodd
May 16, 2012, 11:30 PM
Shouldn't have sworn. The ground levels pretty quickly after a verbal loss of control. Beyond that, you're all good in my book.

Fact is: many's the fool who's shot folk with an "empty weapon".

All snakes are poisonous, all dogs bite, no parking brake is ever on and ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded!

Pat M
May 16, 2012, 11:33 PM
At my club, no handling firearms while people are down range, period. At the very least, he would have been asked to come down to the board of directors meeting to explain himself.

Warp
May 16, 2012, 11:40 PM
I think you need to keep your cool better than that. Getting loud and profane with the guy pointing a rifle at you, when you are seemingly in the inferior tactical position at that, just doesn't seem like a good idea. When you bark at a guy, instead of making a more polite (but firm) request he is much more likely to bark back. IF you think it wise you can always bark after the polite method failed.

I guess to sum it up: It sounds like you barked when you were in no position to be able to bite, but he probably was.

doc2rn
May 17, 2012, 01:28 AM
I agree to an extent with WARP. You where in an inferior position with inferior weapons to respond. Calm heads always prevail over hot heads, especially in tactical situations. Why intentionally try to escalate a losing position?
I am of a mind set that an armed society is a polite society! I suspect anger management class is in your near future or a road rage incident.

GunnerShotz
May 17, 2012, 01:34 AM
Only my 2 cents...

I take it Very seriously when a gun is pointed in my direction as a direct consequence of rule #1 "Never point a weapon at anything You do not intend to shoot."

I'd say you did the right thing with that in mind. OTOH (on the other hand), I would personally be very careful to judge how confrontational I am in a 'controlled' situation that involves guns ;)

The-Reaver
May 17, 2012, 01:36 AM
Good job.

hardluk1
May 17, 2012, 11:15 AM
What kind of a range lets you go down to the 25 yard line to shoot?? The shooting line should be all the same with the yardage to the target being th only difference. CALL Range Cold or the RO should call it to get your targets but thats the only darn reason to be down there. Maybe you need a differnt range. I also know a few guys that if you got that sharp with by mouthing a couple fine 4 letter words at would have been in your face for lack of basic controls on your part too. Sounds more like evrone need some better range education.

InkEd
May 17, 2012, 11:25 AM
It sounds like the firing line is in front of the other one!!!?????

Owen Sparks
May 17, 2012, 11:27 AM
I had a lazer dealer put a red dot on me from 50 yards away at a gun show one time. Even though it was mounted on a toy pistol I had no way to know by looking and my first instinct was to dive for cover. He thought it was funny until I came over and to his table and thretened to smash it.

gatorjames85
May 17, 2012, 11:35 AM
You do something stupid like that, you deserve to be cursed at. You did absolutely nothing wrong. If you had continued to berate the guy when you went back, different story.

All snakes are poisonous, all dogs bite, no parking brake is ever on and ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded!

Agreed except for the snakes part. I see a lot of people killing non-venomous snakes because of this line of thinking. I will agree that if you don't know what it is, you should leave it alone.

tk1971
May 17, 2012, 11:45 AM
Sounds like the lines were parallel to each other, and the 100 yard guys on the far left or right of the OP.

OP did the right thing. His response to the OP's safety concern says it all. "...just taking photos" and "it wasn't loaded" are just excuses and not an acknowledgement of his mistake. He either had no clue that what he did was wrong, or he was too wrapped up with himself to care. I suspect both.

If you had left it at that and not reported him, he would have blown you off and would continue his dangerous behavior.

I've had someone start shooting one time while I was down the range setting up my targets. Granted he was way on the other side of the range, but I hit the deck when I heard the first shot. I then look up to see my wife running towards them waving her hands to cease fire. His response was that I should have let him known I was down there... The line was cold, and that range was not very strict (early light range day = no supervision and communicate/call your own line breaks), so reporting it would be useless. I packed up and left.

Double Naught Spy
May 17, 2012, 11:48 AM
exbrit49, I can understand your frustration. Folks have already said that you should not have used profanity and you have said that you would want to be cussed at if you did something that boneheaded.

Not anymore. I have started calling store managers, and standing up to morons who out-rank me.

I guess that both you guys just assumed that the guy with the AR15 who held the decidedly more powerful and less endangered position had the proper mindset such that he would not act on impulse to shoot you. He may not have had his meds today.

If you are going to cuss at the guy, then don't be so stupid as to do so when you hold such an inferior position.

What kind of a range lets you go down to the 25 yard line to shoot??

Some of the best ranges in the US.

The shooting line should be all the same with the yardage to the target being th only difference.

I take it that you have never been to the Whittington or many other long range shooting facilities where they definitely do not have the targets changing range, but the shooters. Neither setup is right or wrong, just different.

kcshooter
May 17, 2012, 11:54 AM
I think I would be as justifiably outraged as you were.
I don't take kindly to being put in a position to look down the barrel of a gun.
I doubt I would have said, "Excuse me, sir, would you mind not pointing a firearm at me? Thank you."
Polite has it's time and place but I'm not sure this is one of those times or places.
If the range considers this acceptable then I'd find a new range.

highlander 5
May 17, 2012, 11:55 AM
this comes under 3 of my favorite sayings in life,
1 "The check is in the mail"
2 "Of course I'll respect you in the morning"
3 " Relax it's unloaded" or "I didn't know it was loaded"
Other than the deletd explatives you were well within your rights to be upset and reading him the riot act was well within your pervue

walking arsenal
May 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
I think your reaction was a poor one.

I agree. Approaching the guy and CALMLY explaining to him that what he was doing was wrong would have been the better approach. If he had been unreasonable about it THEN tattling on him to the club president would have been good.

Your belligerent attitude, though understandable, could have easily caused the guy to go on the defensive.

An example. I had a guy like you approach me at a range once. He was mad because I had picked up my pistol to show another shooter while the range was cold. I had never been on a controlled range before and didn't know any range rules. I didn't know any because the range we where on didn't have any. He had just declared himself supreme range officer and had made it a controlled range before I had arrived. This created confusion though his intentions where good. However, he lost his cool when he came over to teach me the errors of my ways. Red faced and screaming obscenities, I learned nothing from him and I honestly though at the time that he was going to make me shoot him. He was that furious.

There are always going to be young shooters who make mistakes. Correct them. Calmly. You were new to guns once too and someone had to teach you how to do it right. Stay calm. Focus. And solve the issue at hand. Puffing up, being angry, cussing, and getting in peoples faces might make you feel manly and cool but it isn't going to help anyone in the end.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 02:03 PM
PS: A poisonous snake is only dangerous if you eat it.

Now, a venomous snake...that's a different story. ;)

Manson
May 17, 2012, 02:04 PM
exbrit. With the possible exception of the expletive I think you reacted well.

tarakian
May 17, 2012, 02:16 PM
You did nothing wrong. It's easy to say one would be calm and cool when a gun is pointed at us, another matter entirely when it actually happens. You had no choice but to yell as the need for his attention was immediate and from the sounds of it, he was 50 yards away. Even though he chose to believe his gun was safe to point at others, you has no choice but to assume it was loaded and your safety was in danger. Calmly walking 50 yards with a gun pointed at you is not the correct response. You were also correct in reporting it and going back with the club president to calmly educate him.

russ69
May 17, 2012, 02:31 PM
I've done the same thing. Sometimes with and sometimes without the swear words.

mcdonl
May 17, 2012, 02:34 PM
Clinton Staples once told us (At an IDPA Match)... "If you point a gun in my direction, I will assume you want to engage in a gun fight and I will react accordingly" - Maybe not appropriate for this, but it is a great qoute...

EddieNFL
May 17, 2012, 07:01 PM
I think your reaction was a poor one. That kind of behavior can easily be the catalyst for an altercation.

Getting loud and profane with the guy pointing a rifle at you, when you are seemingly in the inferior tactical position at that, just doesn't seem like a good idea.

You where in an inferior position with inferior weapons to respond.

If you are going to cuss at the guy, then don't be so stupid as to do so when you hold such an inferior position.

If someone gets their feelings hurt, they're gonna blast you. Maybe that Brady woman isn't all wrong.

jim243
May 17, 2012, 07:36 PM
If that had happend at our range, he would have been immeditatly removed by the SO's from the range and never allowed back.

There are no exceptions member or not.

Jim

Sheepdog1968
May 17, 2012, 10:34 PM
The gun with the AR in my opinion was far too casual with safety. That's how people get shot. I'm on the fence if you overreacted. Getting the club president was a good idea.

clamman
May 18, 2012, 12:26 PM
When I was 14, I went deer hunting with my cousin in the north woods of Wisconsin. He was playing around and pointed his loaded deer rifle at me. I promptly disarmed him and beat the crap out of him. That's how I react.

dubya450
May 18, 2012, 01:07 PM
I don't know, I think I would have acted similar. I would have been very ticked off. Thats the one thing I hate about shooting at public ranges, you never know who you'll have in the lane next to you. There are some very stupid people out there that have poor training if any at all that think guns are just toys and they are cool shooting them. I'm always very aware of who's in the range with me, if i feel unsafe or uncomfortable I talk with a manager or come back another time. I was never this critical until once last year I was at the bench loading mags while my buddy was shooting and there was one more lane to our left with a brick wall to their left. I was watch this guy who I've concluded was a noob and he had some sort or malfunction. The guy was pointing the loaded gun in all sorts of directions he even looked down the barrel! I think it was out of battery but he apparently pulled the trigger and it fired right past his head and up into the brick wall to his left. What if there had been another lane on that side? I'm just thankful he was at the end lane and nobody was injured. I told the manager and they removed him from the lane. I talked to the manager afterwards and he offered him a firearms training course (not for free) and had said things like that aren't very uncommon. Ever since that incident I've been very aware of my surroundings especially if they look like young punks that are call of duty video game masters.

Claude Clay
May 18, 2012, 01:37 PM
been on the wrong end of a muzzle all to many times at every range I've been too. more so in the last 5 years than the previous 45 all together*

I've noticed my calm and cool are related to distance
when the person sweeps the firing line and i can dodge and than approach, its calmly.

when I'm on the grass down range--its less calm.

* whats changed lately is they make excuses rather than own up to a mistake and promise not to do it again.
its the 'entitlement' generation and guns are their new 'cool' toys. honestly, i believe that they
think the entire world has a re-set button and they don't have to worry.

im seeing a lot of young today that were brought up special and without coping skills.

Ramone
May 18, 2012, 02:43 PM
It's *almost* a universal range rule that no weapons are handled when the range is "cold".

It's also pretty universal that "it's not loaded" are famous last words (hence, RULE ONE).

It's my experience that while one might have to raise one's voice to get someones attention, "yelling" is something else altogether. Yelling and cussing are usually not the best way to gain cooperation. I find that calmly, even respectfully making it clear that someone was being an ass and a menace will result in a greater return from such 'teaching moments'.

Still, while your reaction may have been less than ideal, given the circumstance, I don't think it was out of line.

Dave Workman
May 18, 2012, 03:02 PM
Looks like you graduated with honors from the "Dave Workman school of range diplomacy"

I've written about knuckleheads like this.
I had a guy scope me and my family one year while deer hunting and I know that gun was loaded. I stood up, in blaze orange, and he boogied along with what looked like his dad and his son...three generations of idiots.

Got my wife and kids into the truck and went down one road and back up another to have a chat with this fool, but he was gone by then in a cloud of dust.

On the range there is no excuse, none, to be aiming a gun toward someone, even if it's not loaded, even if you're just taking photos.

I take photos all the time on gun ranges for my magazine reviews. I can't think of a single time when I aimed a muzzle in someone's direction.

I've written too many stories about people who killed someone with an "empty" gun. I've seen people who were killed with "empty" guns. Trust me, you ain't missing anything by missing that opportunity.

You did what I'd have done, with more colorful language. :rolleyes:

readyeddy
May 18, 2012, 03:19 PM
I think the OP did okay. Pointing a gun in the wrong direction should be corrected asap, hurt feelings notwithstanding.

modarmory
May 18, 2012, 03:27 PM
i think talking to the president / people who are in charge was a great step.
People do need to be reminded about gun safety.
Its hard to say what any of us would do in that instance unless we have actually been in that exact situation.

Swing
May 18, 2012, 03:37 PM
i think talking to the president / people who are in charge was a great step.

This. Egregious range idiocy, like pointing a rifle at someone, needs to be reported to whomever (range master, president, board, etc.) is in charge of insuring said doesn't occur.

Baba Louie
May 18, 2012, 06:52 PM
It's always the gun that someone THOUGHT was not loaded... oops. Uh, sorry.

BTDT, I hit the deck and yelled. I looked stupid doing it (yelling at idiot while prone) I admit, but he got the message... I think.

Deanimator
May 18, 2012, 07:16 PM
I've actually had morons SHOOT while I was downrange.

A friend and I were on the Ft. Knox public range back in the '80s. While we were there a couple of civilians showed up. We called a ceasefire and went downrange to change targets. A few seconds later, I heard the snap of a bullet followed by a gunshot. That was repeated several more times. We started yelling for a ceasefire and ran up to the two townies. We asked them what the **** they thought they were doing shooting when somebody was clearly downrange. Their reply? "We wasn't shootin' atcha. We was shootin' PAST ya!" Our reply? "Do it again and we'll shoot THROUGH you."

We went straight to range control, but by the time they got back to the line, Larry and Daryl were gone.

At the club I currently belong to, we take safety VERY seriously. All it would take would be for one person to get shot for us to get shut down.

People's lives and the continued existence of the club are WAY more important than somebody's feelings.

hardluk1
May 18, 2012, 07:28 PM
DNS I have been to more than enough ranges to know that a range officer will call the range cold and people step back from the line. And a 1000 yard range that make all other distance closed for the event. Or in the case where you are shooting "down range" Everthing else is CLOSED.

Dr. Detroit
May 18, 2012, 08:14 PM
It's always better to stay as calm and civil as possible, but I understand your reaction. I've experienced incidents like this myself and they are extremely unpleasant.

I'm surprised by the rangemaster's lenient reaction. I guess it depends on your club's rules, but I would have expected the offender to be ejected from the range. Then, a written warning and some mandatory remedial training.

Glad you're OK, and hopefully Mr. Kooky got the safety message.

Cheers,
Dr. Detroit

KTXdm9
May 18, 2012, 10:10 PM
Safety trumps manners, in my opinion. It's perfectly natural to freak out a bit when you think your life might be in danger. It sounds like AR guy's attitude towards safety was far too cavalier.

MachIVshooter
May 19, 2012, 05:06 AM
People's lives and the continued existence of the club are WAY more important than somebody's feelings.

This reply is generalized toward the all comments like the one above:

It ain't about hurt feelings. It's about not creating/escalating a situation. You scream profanities at the guy, and maybe he is surprised and embarrassed. That's the best possible outome. However, and possibly more likely, he'll react aggressively-maybe just words, maybe not. I've been on plenty of public ranges where I've seen characters that it would not surprise me one bit if they would have walked over and assaulted or even threatened with the gun someone who yelled at them like that. Yep, they're now in the wrong twice-but it's a bad situation for you all the same.

If you want to engage armed people you don't know with hostility, that's your perogative. But it's not a smart thing to do.

Ohio Gun Guy
May 19, 2012, 06:18 AM
I think the range set up is poor. Do they have a pistol range?

Under those circumstances, I also think your reaction was poor. It didnt help, and its not like you were walking down your side walk and someone pointed a gun at you. You were down range of the benches... Now, I would have said something to the guys, but yelling and swearing at them really leaves them no where, but "screw you" to go.

At a state range near me, if you want / need to shoot shorter than the range, you still shoot from the firing line.... I think this avoids the problem you had.

In short I think 100% of what happened is a result of a poor set up.

Friendly, Don't Fire!
May 19, 2012, 06:31 AM
If they are only "taking pictures" why does it have to be at the range? They can stand in their back yard taking pictures if they want, or just go to some secluded spot for a few minutes.

Suppose the guy's gun was, indeed, loaded? You may have just been moments away from being a statistic, perhaps your yelling at him stopped what might have been a bad day for you (read: your LAST day)!

If people are willing to do the things we see on the news, anything is possible.

EddieNFL
May 19, 2012, 10:43 AM
However, and possibly more likely, he'll react aggressively-maybe just words, maybe not. I've been on plenty of public ranges where I've seen characters that it would not surprise me one bit if they would have walked over and assaulted or even threatened with the gun someone who yelled at them like that.

Old argument used by the antis. I remember the outcry when Florida passed CC. "The streets will run red with blood. Be careful how you look at another person or what you say." Same thing again when Stand Your Ground passed.

If you want to engage armed people you don't know with hostility, that's your perogative. But it's not a smart thing to do.

"But the gun was unloaded." Sarcasm aside, I don't disagree with that, it seems many here have never fired on a military controlled range. You violate a safety rule and you're gonna hear barking...probably from multiple directions. In today's kinder, gentler society I guess that is considered politically un-correct. My favorite part of The Pacific series was the Gunny disarming the lackadaisical lieutenant.

jj1962hemi
May 19, 2012, 10:58 AM
I think the OP was right, but s/h/b more civil. I can't say whether I would have been able to keep my cool either.

The issue of the uninitiated spending more time on the firing line is actually a good thing. I think it means more people are buying guns and getting versed in shooting. My concern is that in much less dangerous situations (e.g. the gun with slide open is on a table at a 45 degree angle) when ROs (or worse, self-appointed ROs) read somebody the riot act, they turn them off from guns and "gun people." I agree it's a fine line.

I was at a public skeet range a few years back while a father sent his kids out in the skeet field, while I was shooting 100' to their left, to pick up unbroken targets. I packed up and left. It was a forest preserve range that is unmanned.

psyshack
May 19, 2012, 11:29 AM
OP did good!

But I would never go to a range where you go down range to shoot at shorter distances. Thats flat out retarded!!!!!

Firing line is established. Shooting distance changes.

Find a new range or club!

HOOfan_1
May 19, 2012, 01:32 PM
What would I have done?

"there are people down range, please do not point firearms down range"

if he said "we are taking pictures"

"the rule applies at all times, when people are down range you do not point firearms down range for any reason"

If he apologized...I leave it at that. If he got surly then yeah I might have talked to the range authorities.

Warp
May 19, 2012, 02:14 PM
This reply is generalized toward the all comments like the one above:

It ain't about hurt feelings. It's about not creating/escalating a situation. You scream profanities at the guy, and maybe he is surprised and embarrassed. That's the best possible outome. However, and possibly more likely, he'll react aggressively-maybe just words, maybe not. I've been on plenty of public ranges where I've seen characters that it would not surprise me one bit if they would have walked over and assaulted or even threatened with the gun someone who yelled at them like that. Yep, they're now in the wrong twice-but it's a bad situation for you all the same.

If you want to engage armed people you don't know with hostility, that's your perogative. But it's not a smart thing to do.

Excellent, and timely, post.

buck460XVR
May 19, 2012, 02:58 PM
This reply is generalized toward the all comments like the one above:

It ain't about hurt feelings. It's about not creating/escalating a situation. You scream profanities at the guy, and maybe he is surprised and embarrassed. That's the best possible outome. However, and possibly more likely, he'll react aggressively-maybe just words, maybe not. I've been on plenty of public ranges where I've seen characters that it would not surprise me one bit if they would have walked over and assaulted or even threatened with the gun someone who yelled at them like that. Yep, they're now in the wrong twice-but it's a bad situation for you all the same.

If you want to engage armed people you don't know with hostility, that's your perogative. But it's not a smart thing to do.


Excellent, and timely, post.


I tend to agree. Altho it's easy to sit back and be an arm chair quarterback. I tend to get excited pretty quickly also and words I'd rather not hear my grand-daughters' mouths speak tend to come outta mine. I think it's one of those "you had to be there" things.

Warp
May 19, 2012, 03:06 PM
For me it isn't a "had to be there", it's just a matter of "I would respond differently". I say this based on experience, by the way. I've been swept by loaded guns at the range before. Being firm but not overly rude, and not swearing, IMO works better. Although if at first it doesn't work, things change...

EddieNFL
May 19, 2012, 03:14 PM
But I would never go to a range where you go down range to shoot at shorter distances. Thats flat out retarded!!!!!

Avoid NRA high power matches. We're really retarded.

Douglas34474
May 19, 2012, 04:04 PM
So someone pointing a firearm at me is "being polite?"

We have a public range in the Ocala Forest. It is unmanned. When I go there, if no one else is doing so, I become the "Range Nazi" and see that the safety rules are adhered to. Although the Range Rules are posted on two 4'x8' bill boards, 90% of the shooters don't even stop to read them.

After we had a gent who refused to leave the firing line until several of us got on his case I called the Sheriff. I asked that if we called a "COLD RANGE" and we had someone continue to handle there firearm, could I consider that an "ASSAULT WITH A DEADLY WEAPON."

His reply was "No. There is on intent." "So I can go into down town Ocala and point my 1911 at people as long as I have no intent?" I asked. "Let me call you back" was his reply.

About 5 minutes he called back and said, "We prefer you call the Sheriff, but yes, that would be an assault with a deadly weapon."

When I go to the range I always wear my 1911 in my shoulder rig. I go with my shooting buddy and one of us always stays on and watches the firing line when the range is cold. We are never without a firearm on us. When someone violates the rules I let them know about it real clear and real quick. After I have their undivided attention I simply ask, "Do you want ME handling my firearm while YOU are down range?" I also inform them that if they sweep me again I will not be so polite. :mad:

I get the "It's not loaded" BS all the time. I just look them straight in the eye and tell them I don't give a dam if it's "unloaded" or not, then ask they how many people have been killed with "unloaded" firearms.

I work on the basic safety rule; Everyone goes home with the same number of holes in them that they came with. ;)

kris7047th
May 19, 2012, 04:14 PM
I think your reaction was a poor one. That kind of behavior can easily be the catalyst for an altercation. Firm but polite is the way to handle it. If he'd fired a round in your direction, different story. But he didn't.
I disagree. How was he to know if that AR wasn't loaded doing a video. Those guys should have taken the time and courteousness to tell the guys down range what they were doing BEFORE pointing a gun in their direction. He had every right to be hot under the collar.

MistWolf
May 19, 2012, 04:38 PM
Someone points a firearm at me, fight or flight kicks in. I would have hollered at the guy in a very commanding voice. If an expletive or two had slipped out, tough. Notice I said an expletive or two, not a whole string. In a dangerous situation it's best not to waste any words.

I have gotten after folks for pointing firearms at me. I do not apologize for doing so. I have had people get after me for my slip ups. I took it on the chin and corrected my behavior. My slip ups are now very rare as I take this seriously.

Co-workers of my father went rabbit hunting with us. Once. After having to throw my uncle into the dirt and pinning him down to keep him from getting up into the line of fire and low crawling out of the area, I had no trouble letting them know exactly how I felt about being shot at and to emphasize to them that it would never happen again and why, although one was my father's boss.

exbrit49, you handled it well. In a deadly situation such as this, there is no time to politely walk over and explain yourself. That can wait until after the weapons are put down

skt239
May 20, 2012, 01:24 AM
People have a problem with the OP's cursing but forgot what lead to it. The guy had no regard for anyone else but himself and the immediate need to pose with his AR. What the dummy did was completely irresponsible, selfish and dangerous. To add insult to injury he continued to push the "it's unloaded" line even with the president of the club in front of him, rather than own up to his foolishness and immediately apologize. He deserved far more than to be cursed at.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 01:27 AM
skt239: I am fairly certain that nobody is forgetting what lead up to it.

I am also fairly certain that nobody is saying it was called for/deserved.

What people are saying, is that swearing probably isn't the best way to handle it due to the chance that it'll turn into a peeing match (or whatever you want to call it)

Nobody is saying that hurt feelings are more important than safety or anything else, people are saying that hurting the feelings of the idiot pointing a rifle at you, if you don't have to do so, should probably be avoided, at least for moment while in that position.


---
This reminds me of when my younger brother was learning to drive. He came to a four way stop (stop signs), stopped, and then proceeded. We told him very quickly NOT to keep going, or that pickup that was coming at speed might hit us. His response? "But they have a stop sign, they are supposed to stop! It would be their fault!" And he was right. They had a stop sign. And it would be their fault. And he totally legally had the right of way. But you know what? Waiting for the pickup to run the stop sign was still the better choice.

BSA1
May 20, 2012, 09:40 AM
As I understand the description of the range you move forward of the firing line in order to shoot at closer distances. This is a very poor range design and you do no mention how the 100 yard line is shut down when shooters are downrange.

I am unclear about where the offender was pointing his gun. Your post says "in our direction." Was he at the other end of the line pointing his gun downrange for the photo shoot or was he on the line pointing the gun at you?
You do not mention how wide the line is. The first may be poor judgement. The second may call for return fire.

You made a big issue of safety and apparently are not still satisified with how it was handled. I would ask you to consider you attitude about safety by using a range that does not have a procedure in place to close the 100 yard line when you are downrange.

Oh you mention it was a AR-15. Did that make a difference in your reaction?

MachIVshooter
May 20, 2012, 01:11 PM
Old argument used by the antis. I remember the outcry when Florida passed CC. "The streets will run red with blood. Be careful how you look at another person or what you say." Same thing again when Stand Your Ground passed.

Have you ever been on a public range? Especially one in an urban area? Not all of the people using it are good, law-abiding citizens. Many of them probably can't legally possess a firearm at all. Some ranges are better about excluding these characters than others, but I've seen the gangsta types at just about every public range I've been to. Hardly an anti point of view to believe it unwise to antagonize a situation you don't have to, especially when deadly weapons are involved. Try to paint my comments with that brush all you want, it doesn't change the fact that acting brashly toward young men in a testosterone-charged environment has a very good chance of creating an undesireable situation.

I never said the OP should have just remained silent. Just as I don't believe in aggravating a situation, I also don't believe in letting bad (or unsafe) behavior go unchecked. But I do know there are ways to handle those situations in which the likelihood of an altercation can be kept to a minimum; Erupting and screaming profanities is not one of them.

it seems many here have never fired on a military controlled range. You violate a safety rule and you're gonna hear barking...probably from multiple directions. In today's kinder, gentler society I guess that is considered politically un-correct. My favorite part of The Pacific series was the Gunny disarming the lackadaisical lieutenant.

Political correctness is beside the point. If you can't understand the difference between dealing with an out-of-line soldier in a very controlled environment and dealing with a member of the general public, there's no point in arguing with you about this.

Robert
May 20, 2012, 01:40 PM
And we are done. You live, you learn.

If you enjoyed reading about "What would you have done?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!