On the issue of printing.


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Wanderling
May 17, 2012, 08:52 AM
Let's have some fun. Here's two photos of me wearing a shirt that's worst ever for printing - it's made of a very light & easily stretched fabric, plus it's a bit too tight around the waist (I was about a size slimmer when I bought it :( ).

In one photo I am carrying a Blackberry. In another, a full size G17 in an OWB holster (I don't have my CCW yet so I am only trying this in house). Guess which one is which, and which one prints more.

164637

164638

Granted it's going to print differently when moving, but then I wouldn't be wearing this "body glove" either.

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SleazyRider
May 17, 2012, 08:55 AM
I'm thinkin' behind door number 1 is the pistol, and behind door number two is the Blackberry.

What did I win?

Captains1911
May 17, 2012, 09:39 AM
Printing is not that big a deal IMO. Most people just aren't looking for this, and per your example if the average person did notice something, chances are they would just assume its a cell phone or something. The only people who may notice are other concealed carry holders, and those people you do not need to worry about.

22-rimfire
May 17, 2012, 09:53 AM
Better tuck that in a bit better.

Most people (law enforcement generally excluded) do not look for a firearm or printing on a person. Some even look for heavy belts that allow easier carry. I don't carry that often, but printing is not something I worry about. But with that said, I generally pocket carry because I don't want a gun rubbing my back or forcing me to wear pants with an inch or so larger waist so sagging on one side. I certainly can not deploy said gun as quickly as from a holster, but that is the price I pay.

Why would you conceal your Blackberry? Most people would not even notice a gun in a traditional belt holster with a loose shirt or jacket hanging down covering it. If they did, they would assume you are law enforcement.

kcshooter
May 17, 2012, 10:04 AM
I agree. Lots of people worry about printing, especially when they first start carrying.

No need. Nobody notices. Don't worry so much.


I think I can make out the goofy Glock grip angle in the first pic.

MartinS
May 17, 2012, 10:12 AM
Both photos show that you are attempting to hide something under your shirt. Does it matter what it actually is when people are free to assume what they will?

RaceM
May 17, 2012, 11:10 AM
Bottom is the pistol, and they're right: don't sweat it. Unless someone is hyper aware it'll be taken for a gizmo, not a gun.

smalls
May 17, 2012, 11:31 AM
It's funny that your blackberry prints more than a G17, assuming I'm right and picture number 1 is hiding the gun.

Wanderling
May 17, 2012, 11:51 AM
Top is the pistol. Bottom is Blackberry. The phone prints much more. And I was trying to stand as naturally as possible. With looser clothing and better belt / holster the gun should be much easier to conceal. The holster is just an el cheapo plastic Sports with very little adjustment ability. I canted it forward the best I could, with a better holster I would be able to adjust the cant and probably the ride height as well.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 17, 2012, 01:46 PM
Top is Glock and bottom blackberry. I can make my G22 disappear on my body without much effort.


Sent from my MP3/Hands-Free/Web-Browsing Device

EvilGenius
May 17, 2012, 02:54 PM
Printing is a concern for me, I don't have my CCW yet, but it's on the soon list.

My concern isn't about other people noticing, it's more about LEOs or wannabe LEOs. I know most of them arent sadists, but I do know that Texas allows very highcharges to be brought up in regards to printing or accidental brandishing. The last thing I want is one of them to make a hap hazard guess that I'm carrying a gun and happen to be right. But I also don't want to have to carry some pop-gun buried deep down in a banana-hammock either.

Captains1911
May 17, 2012, 02:58 PM
Texas allows very highcharges to be brought up in regards to printing or accidental brandishing.
What? Why? Please educate me.

writerinmo
May 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
The more I read the more I like Missouri. No law against printing, and you can have an accidental flash such as the wind blowing an over-garment open for a split second, all you have to do is make a reasonable attempt to cover it as soon as possible.

I find that people just don't look at people more than a cursory glance any more unless they find something freakishly out of the ordinary about you. Most people will notice that I have a pretty bad limp but that's it. I was working in my garage and had my P95 IWB but just had on my tucked in A shirt, nothing over it. Sheriff's deputy that I know stopped by and I went out to the street to shoot the breeze with him, I was waiting for him to say something as he had given me a hard time previously about carrying a Sigma, but it was probably two or three minutes before I finally saw him glance down to where the butt of the pistol was, above my beltline.

If there's anything else for people to notice about you, that's all that they will see. If you limp, or have your head shaved or tattoos, the slight bulge at your waistline will go completely unnoticed.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 03:02 PM
They both print enough that I would strongly suspect you may be hiding a firearm.

Also, I would wager $$$ that the top picture is a gun. However, I would wonder why you were carrying it so far forward...and why it has that much forward cant while being worn that far forward.

NavyLCDR
May 17, 2012, 03:34 PM
I'll stick with Washington's laws regarding printing..... :cool:

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/2010/30333823765110300317510.jpg

EvilGenius
May 17, 2012, 03:42 PM
What? Why? Please educate me.
As far as i know there's no specific law against printing or brandishing, but they are able to pin you on "aggrivated assault" if you get caught by the wrong LEO attached to the wrong DA.

Most of them would'nt but it only takes the wrong guy once to permanently take that right away from you.




Why it's that way? I have no idea, i'd like to have our restrictions on those rights repealed much as OK's have.

kcshooter
May 17, 2012, 04:05 PM
The more I read the more I like Missouri. No law against printing, and you can have an accidental flash such as the wind blowing an over-garment open for a split second, all you have to do is make a reasonable attempt to cover it as soon as possible.Actually, depending on your county and city laws, you don't even have to do that. In my county and most of the cities in it, there's no law against open carry. Exposure doesn't mean a thing except I've gone from a concealed carry to open carry.

writerinmo
May 17, 2012, 05:07 PM
My town doesn't have any statutes against open carry, although the chief has stated that they would "rather I didn't"...I'm not really a big fan of OC personally, I guess I'm just rather secretive as far as that goes although I support others rights to do so. The problem that I saw is that we have a "sister city" that the boundaries wind and twist so much that without asking a homeowner which town we are in, there are no cut and dry boundaries in many areas, and OC isn't allowed there by city statute. The "border towns" that run around the west side of St. Louis are much the same, you can go down a street and see a sign ever couple of blocks that tells you that you are in another town.:banghead:

kcshooter
May 17, 2012, 05:11 PM
Ahhh, I see.
As a former Chesterfield/Ballwin/Manchester/Winchester/Town&Country/Unincorporated resident, I understand completely.
(BTW, for non-St.Louisans, that list of cities is about 4 sq miles)

writerinmo
May 17, 2012, 05:17 PM
The you'll probably know about the Festus/Crystal city convergences as well, I just CC and don't worry about it.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 06:58 PM
RE: Texas. They have a law against intentionally failing to conceal.

Poor Texans

EvilGenius
May 17, 2012, 07:17 PM
RE: Texas. They have a law against intentionally failing to conceal.

Poor Texans
Yeah, it's bull****.

Lex Luthier
May 17, 2012, 10:25 PM
While I agree that most people are oblivious to printing, there are exceptions.

1) A friend who I shouldn't have had a gun conversation with sometimes likes to act like he is checking out my profile and tries to point out my concealed sidearm. I have since ceased having firearm chats with him and change the subject. A mature man would know when to just leave it alone.

2) There is a local LEO with whom I attend church, with whom I have also chatted about firearms and concealed carry, and last Sunday he scoped me out in much the same way.

smalls
May 17, 2012, 10:33 PM
Even if you don't OC, it's great not having laws against it for those windy days, or days you feel like wearing that shirt that prints.

230RN
May 19, 2012, 10:44 AM
Boy, talk about jagged and ragged boundaries with respect to different laws...

Colorado's an open carry state, so for the most part, I carry "casually concealed," meaning I don't worry too much if my vest or jacket swings open now and again, or if the butt of my gun shows through a sweater, except in Denver, where open carry is illegal because it's a home rule city. That's the only place I worry about printing.

Ok, fine. But a couple of decades ago when they were building Denver International Airport (DIA) out in the boonies, Denver annexed a long strip of land to connect to the proposed new airport (which replaced Stapleton Airport). Hey, we're talkin' ten-fifteen miles, here:

http://arviel.loesch.org/DENVERDIA.JPG

So now you can be out thataway, which is mostly rural / agricultural, and cross from one legal jusrisdiction into another several times.

Ticks me off no end.

Terry, 230RN

CountryUgly
May 21, 2012, 11:02 AM
My town doesn't have any statutes against open carry, although the chief has stated that they would "rather I didn't"...I'm not really a big fan of OC personally, I guess I'm just rather secretive as far as that goes although I support others rights to do so. The problem that I saw is that we have a "sister city" that the boundaries wind and twist so much that without asking a homeowner which town we are in, there are no cut and dry boundaries in many areas, and OC isn't allowed there by city statute. The "border towns" that run around the west side of St. Louis are much the same, you can go down a street and see a sign ever couple of blocks that tells you that you are in another town.:banghead:
I guess you do not have preemption laws too keep from this confusion....sorry....

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