New Glock 19 Gen3 is Jamming


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faceyournation
May 17, 2012, 09:39 AM
Hello Everyone,

First time posting on the forums here! I just bought my first gun two days ago, a new glock 19 gen 3. I went shooting yesterday with it, put about 300 rounds threw with 4 jams. The rounds are getting stuck when the magazine feeds them into the chamber. The round stays half in the magazine and half in the chamber which doesn't allow the rail to return to it's firing position, so you can see the jam each time it happens. I was using magtech range ammo. The only way I could fix it was to empty the jammed round and the next round that feeds up. I also had about 5 empty shells hit me in the head upon ejection, which isn't a big deal but may help lead to a source of this problem?

Does anyone know what I could be doing wrong, or what could be malfunctioning on the gun? This is a brand new gun that had never been shot up until yesterday. Does any other glock owners have issues like this? Some friends have told me that the rounds may have not been in proper alignment in the magazine, could this be true?

Thanks everyone for your input! Aside from the jams I love my new Glock and at this point am not looking to trade it for something else, just want the problem solved.

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jerkface11
May 17, 2012, 09:53 AM
Try a different brand of ammo to start with. If that doesn't fix it try a different magazine.

faceyournation
May 17, 2012, 10:12 AM
I will do that today. Thank you so much for your input! It is valued.



**Also one note I left out: Once or twice when I went to load the chamber by cocking the slide back and releasing it, the slide stopped about 1/2 inch before fully engaging in the firing position for a moment (approx 2 seconds), and then engaged fully in the firing position. Maybe this could also help figure out a source of the problem?

M1key
May 17, 2012, 10:50 AM
Brand new or just new to you?

Try hotter ammo like Winchester 115 FMJ, or NATO pressure, or some +P.

Make sure you use the "slingshot" method to charge it. Don't use the slide release. Pull it all the way back to the stop and let go.

Lubing it wouldn't hurt either.

Good luck.

M

X-Rap
May 17, 2012, 10:53 AM
I would try another mag, of the 40-50 Glock mags I have only found one that won't function reliably. IMO they are some of the most reliable out there but there is always that one.

ku4hx
May 17, 2012, 11:57 AM
I would try another mag, of the 40-50 Glock mags I have only found one that won't function reliably. IMO they are some of the most reliable out there but there is always that one.

+1 Try several ammunition brands and bullets weights first then if the problem persists, move to a different magazine. I currently have 61 Glock magazines. Two of 61 were replaced by Glock and two others were ditched. The two I trashed were originals with a 1993 purchased NIB G23. They were just not worth trying to salvage.

hentown
May 17, 2012, 04:35 PM
Key information: "I just bought my first gun...." Make sure that your wrists and elbows don't act like shock absorbers. The symptoms are classic limpwristing symptoms. If you're right-handed, you also might find that you're shooting low and left. :)

GLOOB
May 17, 2012, 04:57 PM
Take a close look next time you have a jam. Glock has changed the way they manufacture their extractors. The jam you're describing is usually attributed to the extractor and/or ammo profile/OAL/rim thickness. If you ride the slide with your hand, and the round hangs up like that - bingo.

When the round is fed, the rim is at an angle to the breechface, so the extractor may have to stretch a little in order to accommodate the rim. The rim can hang on the extractor, stopping the case from sliding all the way up over the breech. Then the round jams, with the nose of the bullet tilted up and pressing against the side of the chamber. Take a close look at the extractor/rim interface when you have a jam.

My gen3 Glock 9mm's extractors have so much clearance this would never happen, no matter how limp your wrist. The rim literally swims around in empty space between the extractor claw and breechface. Kinda odd, actually. But hence, my Glock 9mm's return all the way to battery, anything short of a stovepipe on an empty case. So I suspect this is where your jams are coming from. I mean, limpwristing exacerbates this problem, but at least my Glocks could not have this problem with properly spec'd ammo, period. Could also be the ammo you're shooting has a thicker rim than normal or is otherwise out of spec.

If this is the problem, it might be you could give the extractor a bit of polishing on the edge that's catching or get a new one. Also have heard that some of the new extractors are stiff/tight upon insertion into the slide. Some people have polished the "body" of the extractor so it moves freely in the slot.

I had a Daewoo that would occasionally jam like this. Really had to slingshot the first round with authority. Fixed with a little sandpaper to the extractor.

C0untZer0
May 17, 2012, 05:30 PM
Is it brand new or just new to you?

have you cleaned and lubed it? If you haven't field stripped it, cleaned it and lubed it according to the manual, I'd do that.

I'd also only do one thing at a time and test after each change you make. If you clean and lube it, polish the extractor, and fire hotter ammo - you haven't learned anything.

skt239
May 17, 2012, 05:35 PM
I'd bet it is a magazine related problem, if it's not send it back to Glock. I wouldn't go messing around with a bunch of different types of ammo, that's going to get expensive. After all, it's a Glock and not some delicate micro pistol that only works with certain ammo. People buy Glocks so they can shoot almost anything in the caliber, that's always been my experience.

C0untZer0
May 17, 2012, 06:06 PM
^ I was going to say that this sounds like a failure to feed, and a lot of times that is caused by a magazine problem, but that easy enough to determine - just set aside the magazine and try another.

The other thing that can cause this though IMO, is something slowing the slide down, or causing it to not return as quickly / powerfully as it should -that could be dirt/carbon or a lack of proper lubrication, it could also be a weak recoil spring.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 06:14 PM
As noted make sure you try at least two different magazines.

Use factory ammunition, no reloads.

Field strip and clean/lightly oil the gun.

A Glock should eat just about anything provided there isn't something oddly wrong with the magazine, and the ammunition is reasonably within spec

Do some searching on limp wristing. That really shouldn't be an issue with a quality defensive firearm, but if you are shooting really cheap/weak ammunition and limp wristing badly that could be the problem.

hentown
May 17, 2012, 06:50 PM
The recent extractor/ejector related problems have nothing to do with the symptoms about which the OP posted. Most likely, the nut behind the trigger needs adjusting. ;)

Paul7
May 17, 2012, 07:06 PM
I used to have a G19 that never worked right.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 07:07 PM
I used to have a G19 that never worked right.

Did you send it to Glock?

JustinJ
May 17, 2012, 07:09 PM
I'd try a different mag and make sure you're not limp wristing. If it's anything beyond that i'd send it back. As far as i'm concerned any modern pistol, ecspecially a glock, should have no trouble running any factory SAMMI spec ammo.

Warp
May 17, 2012, 07:13 PM
JustinJ: I agree. And I never did buy that "limp wrist" excuse for a defensive pistol. We're talking about a gun designed to be used in a life or death situation. You may not have a good, solid grip at that time. I am of the opinion that if it chokes because the inexperienced shooter "limp wrists", the gun has failed.

This of course assumes the ammunition is not abnormally weak. I realize that the slightly hotter nature of most defensive ammunition can help with this a great deal.

jfrey
May 17, 2012, 10:25 PM
One other thing to look at, and I had this happen to one of my G19's - new out of the box. You have to strip the pistol but look on the underside of the locking block and see if there is a wear mark all the way across it. If there is only a wear mark on one side or only half way across, the barrel might not be locking up properly. This is very unususal but I did find it in one of mine. Installing a new locking block solved the problem. I would obviously clean and relube it before I got too excited about anything that major. Get some Winchester white box ammo and try that too.

Buck Kramer
May 17, 2012, 10:32 PM
Limp-wristing is my vote, the slide sounds like it does not have enough power to strip the next round out of the mag, or like stated above, your thumb is riding the slide.

GLOOB
May 18, 2012, 02:03 AM
Mag? No, I doubt it. Mags are a common source of a lot of feed problems. But when this happens:
The round stays half in the magazine and half in the chamber which doesn't allow the rail to return to it's firing position
... it's quite often due to the interaction between the ammo and the extractor. And it's almost never a magazine related problem. The gun isn't double-feeding. The bullet isn't nose up on the top of the barrel hood. It's not nose down on the ramp. It's halfway in the chamber. The magazine did its job. And the recoil spring should be able to finish it from here. Even IF the gun was limpwristed.

Warp
May 18, 2012, 02:26 AM
GLOOB, you make a good point.

GLOOB
May 18, 2012, 03:13 AM
My personal test to see if my Glock recoil springs are good is insert a full mag, ride the slide, and let a round feed slowly, gun pointed straight up. If it hangs up or otherwise doesn't return 100% to full battery, I change the spring. There's no way a limpwrist would cause a malfunction like that, repeatedly, in my G19. The only limprwrist malfunction (or any malfunction) my G19 knows how to do is a limpwrist stovepipe of an empty case.

faceyournation
May 18, 2012, 09:53 AM
Thank you so much for the replies everyone! As I cannot answer every question given, I will say that it is my first gun and I am the guns first shooter, so yes it is brand new!

Went back to the gun-shop yesterday and they took it apart for me. Said it was probably the fact that it had almost no oil and that I should be using a 124 grain bullet (not 115) to break it in. Also mentioned that it could be a faulty magazine, and since I was only using 1 of my 2 at the time this could make sense..

Gonna take it shooting again today and I will keep you all updated with the results, thank you so much everyone!! I have read all your comments and will research/act accordingly. I specifially tried to not limp-wrist after the first couple jams and although there is a chance this could be the problem, I wouldn't bet on it.

Thanks again everyone, your all very helpful!

HGUNHNTR
May 18, 2012, 10:41 AM
It doesn't need any additional oil besides the copper colored lube int he gun, and 124 grain bullets are not required for break in...heck the gun can't tell the difference in a few grains of lead, and the weight of the bullet isn't going to make a hill of beans difference in break in. Switch brands of ammo...avoid Magtech.
Switch the mag and the ammo. I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts it's not the gun.

faceyournation
May 18, 2012, 11:14 AM
Thanks for your input HGUNHNTR!

I will use different ammo and switch to my other mag (or use both). Any sugguestions on to which brand on ammo to use?

M1key
May 18, 2012, 12:11 PM
I will use different ammo and switch to my other mag (or use both). Any sugguestions on to which brand on ammo to use?

See post number 4

M

HGUNHNTR
May 18, 2012, 01:01 PM
Any name brand ammo will be just fine. Winchester, Federal (American Eagle) CCI etc.

Good Luck

M1key
May 18, 2012, 01:08 PM
Any name brand ammo will be just fine. Winchester, Federal (American Eagle) CCI etc.

Good Luck
With Glocks, this is not true. They are DESIGNED for NATO pressure ammo. Many US ammo manufactures sell underpowered 9mm. DannyR on Glocktalk did an extensive test. I have the list somewhere...Federal Champion, Remington UMC, Magtech, and a few others are at the very bottom of that list.

MANY Glock malfunctions have been traced to weak ammo.

M

PabloJ
May 18, 2012, 01:31 PM
JustinJ: I agree. And I never did buy that "limp wrist" excuse for a defensive pistol. We're talking about a gun designed to be used in a life or death situation. You may not have a good, solid grip at that time. I am of the opinion that if it chokes because the inexperienced shooter "limp wrists", the gun has failed.

This of course assumes the ammunition is not abnormally weak. I realize that the slightly hotter nature of most defensive ammunition can help with this a great deal.
I can hold my service size hi-cap 9 pretty much any way I want and the pistol will go off in succession w/o problems......why is that? Is 'limp wrist' while holding a gun only problem with Glock pistol?

Inebriated
May 18, 2012, 01:45 PM
With Glocks, this is not true. They are DESIGNED for NATO pressure ammo. Many US ammo manufactures sell underpowered 9mm. DannyR on Glocktalk did an extensive test. I have the list somewhere...Federal Champion, Remington UMC, Magtech, and a few others are at the very bottom of that list.

MANY Glock malfunctions have been traced to weak ammo.

M

Yeah, MANY malfunctions are traced to weak ammo. But THIS malfunction is not. He has stated that the ammo gets hung up, even after releasing the slide from it's locked position. That has nothing to do with the ammunition's power.

M1key
May 18, 2012, 01:56 PM
Yeah, MANY malfunctions are traced to weak ammo. But THIS malfunction is not. He has stated that the ammo gets hung up, even after releasing the slide from it's locked position. That has nothing to do with the ammunition's power.
I was referring to HGUNHNTR's previous comment.

Glock advises NOT to charge the pistol by using the slide release as this can cause a failure of the slide to return completely to full battery position. Recommended use is the "slingshot" or "overhand" method to charge the pistol. That requires the slide to be pulled FULLY TO THE REARWARD POSITION and released quickly allowing the slide to "slam the round home".

BTW, I am a certified Glock armorer and instructor and have dealt with this problem many times.

M

Inebriated
May 18, 2012, 02:00 PM
I was referring to HGUNHNTR's previous comment.

Glock advises NOT to charge by using the slide release as this can cause a faiulre of the slide to return completely to full battery position. Recommended use is the "slingshot" or overhand method to charge the pistol. That requires the slide to be pulled FULLY TO THE REARWARD POSITION and released quickly allowing the slide to "slam the round home".

BTW, I am a certified Glock armorer and instructor and have dealt with this problem many times. We politely call it "operator error".

M

I didn't say one way or the other if it was slingshot, power stroke, or slide release. Though I agree, I think power stroke is the best way to run any auto. It works 100% on 99% of the autos out there. But my point was that it has nothing to do with the power of the ammo. But I see the post you're referencing, and it makes more sense than you bringing it up to fix OP's issue.

solvability
May 18, 2012, 02:01 PM
Under powered ammo is a frequent problem in a Glock with factory recoil spring - that can be made worse by a bad grip.

M1key
May 18, 2012, 02:09 PM
I didn't say one way or the other if it was slingshot, power stroke, or slide release. Though I agree, I think power stroke is the best way to run any auto. It works 100% on 99% of the autos out there. But my point was that it has nothing to do with the power of the ammo. But I see the post you're referencing, and it makes more sense than you bringing it up to fix OP's issue.


The OP said his slide drags when dropping it from the "locked" position. I was correcting him on his technique. Compounding his problems with this pistol was the use of "weak" ammo. If he is a new shooter, he may have "other" problems (with his grip, stance, trigger control, breathing, sights, etc.) as well.

To no one in particular:
Glocks were designed for European NATO (+P) pressure ammuntion from day one. When the Glock 17 was first imported into the US, they came with an 18# recoil spring. Glock quickly had to change to a 17# spring to accomodate the lower-powered US manufactured ammo. Glock has set a minimum pressure (velocity) standard to ensure reliable functioning

Here is DannyRs list. Note Magtech 115 gr is near the bottom:

Brand Weight Velocity Power Factor
Fiocchi 124 1180 146.32
Fiocchi 147 1000 147.00
Fiocchi 158 940 148.52
Am Eagle 147 1000 147.00
Win RA9124N NATO 124 1185 146.94
RWS Sport FMJ 124 1181 146.44
S&B 124 1181 146.44
Rem. Express 147 990 145.53
Magtech 147 990 145.53
UMC 147 990 145.53
Lawman 147 985 144.80
Prvi Partizan 147 984 144.65
S&B 115 1250 143.75
Fiocchi 115 1250 143.75
Am Eagle 124 1150 142.60

Glock Minimum* 124 1148 142.35

Win USA 124 1140 141.36
Blazer 147 950 139.65
Lawman 115 1200 138.00
PMC Bronze 124 1110 137.64
Magtech 124 1109 137.52
Win USA 115 1190 136.85
Rem. Express 124 1100 136.40
UMC 124 1100 136.40
Am Eagle 115 1180 135.70

Glock Minimum* 115 1180 135.70

Blazer 124 1090 135.16
Blazer Brass 124 1090 135.16
Lawman 124 1090 135.16
Cor-Bon match 147 900 132.30
My Reloads 147 900 132.30
PMC Bronze 115 1150 132.25
Prvi Partizan 115 1148 132.02
Blazer 115 1145 131.68
Blazer Brass 115 1145 131.68
Rem. Express 115 1135 130.53
Magtech 115 1135 130.53
UMC 115 1135 130.53
Federal Champion 115 1125 129.38


*2000 Glock Armorers manual

M

Warp
May 18, 2012, 02:39 PM
Glocks do not need broken in, and 115gr bullets should be just fine. However, the cheap/weak practice rounds that can sometimes be difficult for pistols to cycle properly are generally 115gr.

You should also be able to shoot a new Glock for hundreds of rounds without putting doing a single thing to it, no oil or anything, without a problem.

BUT using different ammo, a different magazine, and an oiled gun might make the difference. Report back.

HGUNHNTR
May 18, 2012, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by M1keyI was referring to HGUNHNTR's previous comment.

Glock advises NOT to charge the pistol by using the slide release as this can cause a failure of the slide to return completely to full battery position. Recommended use is the "slingshot" or "overhand" method to charge the pistol. That requires the slide to be pulled FULLY TO THE REARWARD POSITION and released quickly allowing the slide to "slam the round home".

BTW, I am a certified Glock armorer and instructor and have dealt with this problem many times.



Any Glock armorer should know that this is not a slide release, but a slide stop. It is designed purely as a mechanism for holding the slide open. Americans, being used to a slide release, have started to (incorrectly) use it as one. Glock even offers an extended version for the US market...seemingly against their own advice as not using it as such.
As pointed out, this is most likely not an issue of not using nato ammo.

Warp
May 18, 2012, 02:51 PM
I can hold my service size hi-cap 9 pretty much any way I want and the pistol will go off in succession w/o problems......why is that? Is 'limp wrist' while holding a gun only problem with Glock pistol?

Why is that? Because you have a reliable pistol.

Glocks ought to pass that test.

"Limp wristing" can be a problem for any semi automatic handgun.

M1key
May 18, 2012, 03:04 PM
Any Glock armorer should know that this is not a slide release, but a slide stop. It is designed purely as a mechanism for holding the slide open. Americans, being used to a slide release, have started to (incorrectly) use it as one. Glock even offers an extended version for the US market...seemingly against their own advice as not using it as such.
As pointed out, this is most likely not an issue of not using nato ammo.
Well now...let's not get huffy.

"Slide release" is common parlance among "non-Glockers" and "new shooters"...descibes it's function to the uninitiated, and I will use it as I damn-well please, thank you.

The OP has a problem jamming with weak ammo (post #1) AND with the slide hanging up when using the release (post #3). I was addressing both of his concerns. Use of the slide release can cause a failure to go into battery.






M

GLOOB
May 18, 2012, 03:21 PM
Glock advises NOT to charge by using the slide release as this can cause a failure of the slide to return completely to full battery position.
First time I've ever heard that. I've heard people cite that as a reason, and I don't agree. I've never heard of Glock saying that. But I admit, I probably didn't read the entire manual, myself. There are good reasons to not use the slide stop as a release, but I don't think that's one of them.

I'm very sad for all these people with Glocks and Glock mags that jam when you look at them wrong. I guess my Glocks and my 2 dozen Glock mags are special. If I had gotten a "regular" Glock that couldn't finish cycling a round when it was limpwristed or slingshotted, or slide released, or because my thumb was touching the slide, or for any other reason, then I'd be be looking for a new platform. I mean, there are guns that have these problems. I have owned some of them. But not my Glocks, nor any of my other current centerfire pistols. There are plenty of guns that will lock up in full battery just fine when you do all these things "incorrectly." Any gun that can't is a malfunction waiting to happen.

I bet it's just a break in issue. Once the rails and extractor are broken in, this will probably go away. I'm concerned how few people seem to appreciate the extractor's role in this. When the round feeds, the rim has to push by the extractor to get all the way centered over the breechface. What happens is the rim stops on the extractor, leaving the round slightly tilted. So the slide stops when it realizes it can't put a tilted, off-center bullet in a straight chamber. The jam is exactly as the OP described with the round "halfway in the chamber." My friend's gen4 had this issue when brand new, as well. After a box of ammo, or two, the extractor loosened up and this went away. I had another brand of gun that did this, and tweaking the extractor fixed it. If this specific jam doesn't stop happening (even when you limpwrist, intentionally), I would consider it a problem, and I'd look at the extractor.

M1key
May 18, 2012, 03:28 PM
First time I've ever heard that. I've heard people cite that as a reason, and I don't agree. I've never heard of Glock saying that. But I admit, I probably didn't read the entire manual, myself. There are good reasons to not use the slide stop as a release, but I don't think that's one of them.
Attend an Armorer's class sometime.

I have seen it happen numerous times in actual practice. Results in a "click" and an off-center primer hit. Kinda scary if you think about it.

Similar to the fact that "riding the slide" home can cause failure to return to full battery in any number of autoloaders. Rack it back and let it slam home...just like it's supposed to when you shoot it.



M

GLOOB
May 18, 2012, 04:04 PM
I have seen it happen numerous times in actual practice. Results in a "click" and an off-center primer hit. Kinda scary if you think about it.
Yes, it's scary that a gun can go to 99% battery and stop for no reason, and that the manufacturer's certified armorers consider it normal. If a 17 lb spring can't close the slide the last fraction of an inch, by itself with no momentum, there's a problem. I don't care if the gun was short stroked, or the slide release was used, or the slide was ridden. If it doesn't return to full battery after the cartridge is already partway in the chamber, I'll fix it or sell it, cuz I have a lot of guns that don't have this problem, including all of my Glocks.

M1key
May 18, 2012, 04:23 PM
Yes, it's scary that a gun can go to 99% battery and stop for no reason, and that the manufacturer's certified armorers consider it normal. If a 17 lb spring can't close the slide the last fraction of an inch, by itself with no momentum, there's a problem. I don't care if the gun was short stroked, or the slide release was used, or the slide was ridden. If it doesn't return to full battery after the cartridge is already partway in the chamber, I'll fix it or sell it, cuz I have a lot of guns that don't have this problem, including all of my Glocks.
Apparently Glock doesn't think it's a problem. Or refuses to acknowledge it. I can't speak for other armorers. This is a known issue on the Glock forum. I train others to use the Glock factory recommended operating techniques to avoid trouble...and I get grief for it on this forum. :rolleyes:

I once had a kaboom with a Glock 24 using factory fmj ammo, that I strongly suspect had an out of battery condition. I purchased it used. It had a BarSto barrel (that was a little tight-fitting), a weak or reduced power recoil spring, and an over-polished connector that occasionally wouldn't allow the trigger to reset. This piece was purchsed from a former FFL dealer and I suspect was his personal gun.

Seven rounds into the first mag...KaBoom (actually, kinda a muffled POP)... she blew the extractor out, the mag down half-way, and locked the slide up tight. This was with a $265 fully-supported match-chambered BarSto. Case-head separated and ejected (never found it). Stung my hand a little, but otherwise okay. Dropped the whole mess into a box and mailed it to Glock. They repaired it and sent it back in two weeks.

Now y'all can analyze and armchair quarterback this incident to your heart's content. Point is, assume nothing, even Glock "perfection". A catastrophic failure can happen to any firearm, and in 55+ years handling firearms, I've seen or heard most all of it. That's why "safety-first" is always a virtue. Oh, and I still own a mess of 'em Glocks.

If this information causes loss of sleep, selling your Glocks might give you some rest.

Good luck

M

ku4hx
May 18, 2012, 04:45 PM
Or maybe like the poor Rube shooting next to me. I used a knife point to clean the accumulated gunk out of the corners in the slide where the barrel/chamber locks. Failure to go into battery problems solved. He was astounded since Glocks never need to be cleaned and this was a Gen2 17 he'd bought new in 1998. Apparently it had never been cleaned; sure looked that way.

Warp
May 18, 2012, 05:51 PM
RE: Limp wristing, 9mm Glocks, weak factory ammo.

I took my 3rd Gen Glock 26 to the range today for a limp wrist test. It passed with flying colors (again).


I even took a video. Take a look.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btn8kr1jgUA

Btn8kr1jgUA



My point is that for a defensive pistol I refuse to accept "limp wristing" as an excuse for failures. If the gun fails because it wasn't help properly, it still failed. You cannot count on proper grip, stance, etc, if you ever have to use it in a real life, life or death (or serious bodily harm) scenario. And I apply this rule to weak (factory) FMJ practice rounds as well as premium defensive loads.

Hopefully swapping mags or ammo or whatever will get you set, OP...but since the gun has shown some failures in your hands I would be sure to put a good number of rounds through it without issue before declaring it reliable with that round.

HGUNHNTR
May 19, 2012, 11:52 AM
Slide release" is common parlance among "non-Glockers" and "new shooters"...descibes it's function to the uninitiated, and I will use it as I damn-well please, thank you.


You can describe it as a release to the unitiated, but you will just be reinforcing a bad habit that it seems you are trying to prevent int he first place. Anyway, I don't care which term you use, and I'm not huffy. Just pointing out a weakness in your argument.
Sometimes the realization that one's own practices may be less than perfect cause that persons fur to bristle a bit...I understand, no problem.

otasan56
May 19, 2012, 02:03 PM
The Glock handguns require a very firm grip in order to function properly. Your desciption of the jam sounds like the slide didn't go back far enough from the previous discharge. The slide has to start its forward motion from its full rear position to get enough momentum to slide the cartridge forward firmly. I weak grip allows the frame/receiver to move back with the slide during recoil, causing the slide to not go back far enough. It only happened to you less than 2% out of 300 rounds. I really thing that it was caused by an occasional weak grip. Were the cartridges JHP or FMJRN??

Warp
May 19, 2012, 02:06 PM
The Glock handguns require a very firm grip in order to function properly.

No, they don't.

PS: I just posted a video about this very thing only a few posts up from yours. ;) I don't see a better way to prove my point than that.

No GOOD defensive pistol should have limp-wristing problems. If it does, and changing mags or ammo doesn't completely rid the problem, it's time to find a different defensive pistol. If the problem is with a Glock, that gun has a problem of some sort, that isn't the way it ought to be.

GLOOB
May 19, 2012, 03:54 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p2-4v_ypPw

This is the kind of jam I believe the OP is describing. If you asked Warp or me, this would be unacceptable, no matter that you limpwrist or ride the slide or use the slide release. If that was my gun, I don't care what excuses the Glock armorer classes are teaching or the internet forums are preaching. I'd fix it.

I'll say it one more time. Tight extractor. You notice how the extractor doubles as a LCI? Yeah, it has to go from flat to raised when a round slides under the claw. Unless the breechface is extremely dirty or defective, or the ammo is out of spec, this malfunction is caused by the extractor. Most likely, it'll go away within a few hundred rounds as the extractor and extractor spring break in. Limpwristing can reveal the issue, but it doesn't cause it. It has nothing to do with the magazines or the slide release.

dubya450
May 19, 2012, 04:36 PM
That would be strange for me because of the 11 glocks I've bought the only one I've ever had any sort of an issue with was a Gen 4 glock 19. The Gen 3 ones run like a top for me.

faceyournation
May 19, 2012, 04:48 PM
Thanks everyone for all the input! Rest assured I have read each piece of advice given to me in this thread, and here are the results:

After cleaning and re-lubing the gun I took it back out to the range with some american eagle 124 (50 rounds), american eagle 115 (100 rounds), and winchester 115 (150 rounds).

Not one jam now, even when purposely limp wristing and/or shooting with one hand.

I did notice that one of my mags (the one I was originally using) is acting kind of funky when I press down on the spring to load ammo into it. Despite this it did not jam this time around..

I believe that leaves us with the problem being a dry gun or the extractor breaking in? I'm going to shoot another 500 rounds threw it next week so we will see what happens then..

And most importantly, thank you all for such great input. I really value all the time each of you put in to help me out, sincerely. I hope to continue being an active member of them form, despite my new entry into the gun world.

GLOOB
May 19, 2012, 04:52 PM
None of my Glocks do it, either. But I don't have any of recent manufacture. A friend's gen4 G19 did this, but only when brand new.

Glock did 2 things which make this malfunction more likely to happen. They changed the extractor. It's now cast or MIM, or w/e, and the specs are a little different and reportedly it's sometimes a tight fit in the sldie. And they are now doing the parkerized coating which is thicker and rougher, so this makes the extractor even sticker when new. Both these changes apply to the recent production gen3's, so they're going to be more prone to experience this kind of jam, even more so than the gen4's with their heavier recoil spring.

So "Glocks don't need a break in" could be a thing of the past.

Warp
May 19, 2012, 04:54 PM
When did they change the extractor to MIM?

As it happens I have had the G26 from the video since 2005. I got my G19, which has also passed that test (though I will do it again soon) in 2009. And I got a G21SF, which I have NOT done a limp wrist test on yet, last year.

GLOOB
May 19, 2012, 04:58 PM
Around the time they made the gen4 they changed to a cheaper way of manufacturing the extractor. I dunno if it's MIM or something else. Just do a google search. But a sticky extractor could be more a side effect of the thicker, rougher,"parkerized" coating. The extractor gets hit by a quadruple dose of the difference in surface coating. Top and bottom of the extractor, and top and bottom of the extractor slot. As the part wears in, the surfaces wear down and smooth out.

*OP, glad your issue has resolved!

C0untZer0
May 19, 2012, 05:38 PM
The are several different kinds of copper anti-sieze out there.

I'm guessing that because Glock is in Austria they are probably using the German Henkle, but I could be wrong.

The MSDS for the Henkle LOCTITE C5-A is right here:

http://complyplus.grainger.com/grainger/msds.asp?sheetid=3841897#sec2

Some of the companies that make the stuff (like VersaChem) flat out say that it's not a lubricant. It is more commonly called an anti-seize compound or anti-seize assembly compound - sometimes called anti-seize thread lubricant. It is something that you put on an assembly that enables it to be taken back apart at some future date - hence the name "anti-seize" - as in keeping a bolt from seizing up. But not the same connotation as a lubricant that keeps moving parts from seizing up.

So here's my opinion on the copper anti-seize.

One thing that it does better than almost any other grease its that it doesn't separate, dry out or become tacky.

So we all know that there are people who, when they buy a gun, they don't clean it, they don't lube it, they go straight to the range and start blasting away.

I think Glock puts the copper anti-seize in their Glocks to mitigate against the situation where a Glock sits for a long while - either in transport or at distributors and then in a gun shop etc... and then an owner doesn't clean or lube but just fires it. The anti-seize will provide some lubrication and protection of the metal.

The copper anti-seize is for a particular application: shipping it and trying to prepare for some knucklehead who is going to basically fire it right out of the box.

But I think it's completely useless for an owner to use the stuff. There are lubricants - oil and grease out there that are much better, and if an owner has his Glock in storage for a while he can always just clean and re-lube the pistol before firing. Are there that many situations where someone doesn't ever have an opportunity to do regular maintenance on their pistol - it just sits in storage, but they might need to shoot it at a moments notice?

Well if you really truly have that situation then maybe copper anti-seize is the right lube for that application.

Really though, the stuff is targeted for a particular application - to prevent bolts & fasters from welding with the materials they're holding together and to prevent them from corroding and for enabling bolts / fasteners to be backed out at some future time and to prevent them from seizing up when they're untightened.

I have not been able to find NLGI ratings for most of the copper anti-seize compounds, but at least the Versachem I purchased seemed to be thicker than the Walmart Super Tech Extreme Pressure Multi-Duty Complex Hi-Temp grease - which is NLGI #2

It's gritty compared to other gun greases or even compared to general purpose packing grease.

The copper grease that came on my Glock was fairly thick, mostly came off after the third firing / cleaning. There is some trace of it left - which resembles copper fouling - which jives with what another anti-seize manufacturer says about their product.

I was reading the tech sheet on Jet-Lube's copper anti-seize - and it states:

"will not separate, settle out, harden, or dry out in storage"

^ This IMO may be why Glock ships their pistols with copper anti-seize in them.

Their TDS also states:



JET-LUBE SS-30 literally copper plates mating and sliding surfaces to provide protection against seizure, galling, and heat-freeze. Its high content of copper particles prevents metal-to-metal contact, maintaining lubrication qualities under wide variations of temperature, expansion, contraction, and cyclic loadings.
Notice that the German Henkle LOCTITE C5-A has ground up quartz crystals in it - used as a thickner.

Quartz crystals in a lube that goes on a big bolt that is going to stay in place and then go a few revolutions when it's untightened - not a big a deal. Quartz crystals between two sliding steel parts in a hand gun? I don't think it's a good idea. But then again - I don't know exactly what goes into the copper lube that Glock uses. Other copper anti-seize manufacturers use lime as a thickner. Some manufactuer's copper anti-seize is basically lithium grease with copper powder in it.

I think there is better grease out there and I would take the goop off immediately and use any gun oil or gun grease there instead.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2012, 05:45 PM
IMO Glocks shouldn't need and don't need a break-in period.

You read hundreds of glowing reviews of the reliability and toughness of Glocks right out of the box, but when an owner has an issue someone somewhere starts talking about a break-in period.

IMO there is no break in period for a Glock.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2012, 05:59 PM
I have the supposedly "bad" dipped extractor and I haven't had any problems with it, but I have a 17L and maybe the larger size of the slide makes a difference, although I've heard Glock has tried to make the 17L slide weight about the same as a 17 I've never seen them weighed side-by-side.

From the last I heard, people who send their gun back to Glock for brass wacking them in the face get only a new extractor I've heard that Glock gives them forged extractors for a replacement. But they're not trading out RSAs and ejectors any more. People who send their guns in with the 336 ejector for example have their gun come back with a new extractor and a the old 336 ejector still in place.

GLOOB
May 19, 2012, 06:08 PM
I have the supposedly "bad" dipped extractor
It's not a bad extractor, in most cases. It may or may not need a short break in. And like you noted, sometimes it even needs to be replaced.

The copper anti-seize is for a particular application: shipping it and trying to prepare for some knucklehead who is going to basically fire it right out of the box.
You should check and/or patch the bore, but you are SUPPOSED to leave the copper stuff on there, they way it came out of the box.

Quartz crystals between two sliding steel parts in a hand gun? I don't think it's a good idea.

I think there is better grease out there and I would take the goop off immediately and use any gun oil or gun grease there instead.
The point of that stuff IS to lap fit the gun, not just to lube. That's why you're supposed to leave in on there for the first 100 shots or so, then remove it and replace it with oil. If it was just for lube, the manual wouldn't say that.

Quartz crystal sounds bad. Yes, it's harder than steel and will remove material. But ANY grinding/buffing/polishing/finishing compound is harder than the material it polishes. The rate of material removal and smoothness of the finish is largely determined by the shape and size of those particles.

C0untZer0
May 19, 2012, 06:22 PM
It doesn't makes sense to me, on the one hand the copper is supposed to put a protective copper coating between the pieces coming in contact with each other, but the quartz crystals are supposed to provide "lapping" ?

And the main application that this stuff was really invented for - manifolds and assemblies - there wouldn't be any lapping right? It's just thread anti-seize compound.

I'd rather just put regular lithium moly grease in my Glock.

My point about the copper anti-seize shipping with Glocks is that

1) Owners have reported varying amounts of it in their guns. Mine came with a dab. Others have reported that there was a lot of it in their slide and even some on the rails.

2) It's pretty think stuff. Thicker than NLGI #2, and if it is gooped on the slide rails I could see it slowing the action down.

GLOOB
May 19, 2012, 06:39 PM
The copper doesn't provide a protective coating. It's just lubrication. When you wipe it off, it's gone after a few more shots. The effect of the lapping stays long after you remove the copper.

I'd rather just put regular lithium moly grease in my Glock.
That's your preference, and I respect that. But Glocks don't need moly grease. That just traps powder and grit. A tiny dot of light oil is all you need.

otasan56
May 20, 2012, 03:41 PM
No, they don't.

PS: I just posted a video about this very thing only a few posts up from yours. ;) I don't see a better way to prove my point than that.

No GOOD defensive pistol should have limp-wristing problems. If it does, and changing mags or ammo doesn't completely rid the problem, it's time to find a different defensive pistol. If the problem is with a Glock, that gun has a problem of some sort, that isn't the way it ought to be.

Okay, you are right.

bsctov
May 21, 2012, 04:10 AM
Replace magazine spring and check follower for deformations or other damage. Inspect chamber opening and feed ramp for burs or other defects.

tinroad37e
May 21, 2012, 07:04 AM
Wow....a lot of arguing on here. Check the feedramp and polish it..it's free! Yes, polishing feedramps on Glocks are not necessary, or shouldn't be, but hell, just do it.

mes228
May 22, 2012, 07:55 AM
I've owned perhaps 15 or so Glock's, all Gen 3 17,19,22,23's. I suspect I have 10K rounds through the 3 I have as keepers. Total rounds through all of them would probably be much much higher. I have never had a failure, or a burp of any kind. I shoot only factory ammo and lube a little different than Glock manuals recommend. Because of my experiences I feel if a Gen 3 Glock malfunctions something is wrong with the pistol. All I've owned were stone cold reliable if they are stock un-messed with pistols. If it jams and it's a Gen 3 Glock 19 it's probably broken in some way. Send it back for repair would be my suggestion.

seastrike
May 22, 2012, 12:12 PM
I had a post about a magazine issue in a gen 3 Glock 17 the other day. The culprit was the magazine follower. Plastic near the top edge of the follower had deformed and prevented the follower from raising all the way up.

An exacto knife cured this.

C0untZer0
May 22, 2012, 12:17 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=8172450&postcount=50

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