Pistols in 9mm Makarov


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Quoheleth
May 17, 2012, 11:41 AM
I've had my C&R since around Valentine's Day and haven't put it to use yet. I'm thinking about one of the various Makarov-chambered guns as a good first use.

I know the CZ82 is probably top of the heap and it's available for $200-220 at various on-line places.

How about the other guns? How do they compare? While it would probably be a plinker, if it shoots comfortably it could also see use as a rough-duty CCW (i.e., post-hurricane clean up, etc. - where I don't care if it gets scuffed, dropped, or loaned to a neighbor).

Final question...some people say the recoil is very snappy. I have a Taurus 738 in .380 that I just do NOT enjoy shooting at all. Is the 9Mak worse than that gun?

Q

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BRE346
May 17, 2012, 12:01 PM
I tried an old Makarov 9mm. It was pretty comfortable.

Wildbillz
May 17, 2012, 12:12 PM
9mm Mak is an OK cartridge. Sort of between a 380acp and 9mm Luger. I have a PA 63 which is sort of a copy of a Walter PP in 9mm Mak. Some say its painful to fire but it don't bother me. Also have a Cz 82 in that caliber. Package is a little big for the calber but the price is right on them. Be aware thought spare mags can be costly. The only other one I have played with was the Makarov PM pistol. Never fired it but they seem well built. Mags for it have gone way up and the only ones that seem to be avalible are not C&R guns.

Ammo is easy to find, most of the Acadamys have it. Price is still pretty cheap. Reloading dies are expensive (RCBS was like $57.00) Only reloadable brass I have found was from Starline and not real cheap, on the bright side I understand that you can make your own brass by trimming down 9mm Luger cases. Bullets are lager then standard 9mm so you have to get the right ones. Selection is not all that great but they are out there.

WB

mgmorden
May 17, 2012, 12:18 PM
I own a Makarov and a CZ-82 (my Makarov is in .380, but still a valid comparison). Both are nice guns. I find the Makarov a little more visually appealing, and I like its simplicity of design, but I find the CZ-82 more comfortable to hold and shoot. Accuracy is about even between them, though the sights on the CZ-82 are better IMHO.

surfzombie
May 17, 2012, 12:42 PM
Corret me if I am wrong but the only Makarov caliber pistols that are c&r eliagable are the Polish P64, Czech cz82 and the older PM Makarovs like the East German and The original Russiam Military and maybe some of the Chinese model 59. If you want a different caliber the Tokarev's are c&R. I personally love the Pm Makarovs. I own or have owned most of them. The cz82 is a nice pistol but it is a double stack mag and so it's wider and more bulky. The Polish P64 is very nice and I carried it for many years. It has a very harsh or sharp felt recoil but that can be toned down if you want very easily and inexpensively. I say collect them all. One at a time and keep the ones you like and sell the rest. That's what I did.

MrDig
May 17, 2012, 01:53 PM
Sort of between a 380acp and 9mm Luger. WB

Not really sort of, it is exactly in between, 380=9x17 , Makarov=9x18 , Luger/Parabellum/NATO=9x19

Names for the .380 ACP include .380 Auto, 9mm Browning, 9mm Corto, 9mm Kurz, 9mm Short, and 917mm.
Names for the Makarov include 9 mm Makarov, 918mm, 918mm PM, 9 mm Mak, 918mm Soviet
Names for the Parabellum919, 9 mm, 9 mm Luger, 9 mm NATO, 919mm, 919mm NATO, 9 mm Parabellum, 9 mm Para

In the U.S. when you say 9mm it is commonly accepted that you mean Parabellum, if you mean .380 or Makarov you need to specify.

PabloJ
May 17, 2012, 02:14 PM
Two viable choices are Russian Baikal or surplus Bulgarian Makarov pistols. The East German, Chinese, and non-commercial Russian ones are found at prices that make them uninteresting. I haven't seen Chinese one locally in several years. The 95gr 9x19 from 4" barrel moves at >1300fps while 95gr one from 3.75" 9x18 tube at about 1100fps. Ok, 9x18 "cane" might come close to the Luger chambering.

Coyote3855
May 17, 2012, 02:21 PM
I have a couple of Makarovs, a Russian and a German. I put Pearce grips on the Russian, which made it a lot more pleasant to shoot. With the original plastic grips, it was a bit "snappy" IMO.

mgmorden
May 17, 2012, 03:28 PM
Not really sort of, it is exactly in between, 380=9x17 , Makarov=9x18 , Luger/Parabellum/NATO=9x19

Comparing the cartridge lengths is somewhat of a pointless comparison though. There are many other factors at work (for one, the 9mm Mak uses a slightly wider bullet, and the .380 ACP case is narrower at the base with less taper). It makes most sense to compare actual power/muzzle energy of the rounds.

With that in mind, 9mm Makarov is technically "between" .380 and 9mm, but realistically it is WAY biased towards the .380 side of that spectrum.

Standard .380 ACP loads generate around 200 ft lbs of muzzle energy. 9mm Mak generates 230-240 ft lbs. 9mm Luger generates around 400 ft lbs for standard loads.

If you start looking at the +P loads there is even LESS spread between .380 and 9mm Mak, and for a lot of manufacturers the .380 will outperform it in their +P loads (eg, for Buffalo Bore the strongest 9mm Mak load they make generates 267 ft lbs - their strongest .380 generates 294 ft lbs).

So, yes, the 9mm Mak does fall "in between", but to suggest its anything approaching an even split right down the middle is just inaccurate.

GLOOB
May 17, 2012, 06:33 PM
I'm familiar with the PA-63 and P64.

Downsides -
P64: this gun is not dropsafe unless you have the manual safety on. It is known to fire when dropped on the back of the hammer with the hammer down and safety off. The manual safety blocks the firing pin. The hammer is a weird floating design, at rest. Sorta like a half cock notch, except it can't be lowered all the way down. There's free space between the hammer and firing pin, and when that notch fails in a drop, the gun can fire. Upwards, towards your head. This is not theoretical; it's happened to two people. So even though it's DA/SA, you must keep the safety on at all times.

PA-63: definitely do not dryfire this gun. I'm on my 6th trigger return spring and my third FP spring. :)

DesertFox
May 17, 2012, 08:18 PM
C&R here too. CZ82 and P64 are the Makarovs that ended up finding a home amongst the others here. My opinion is that the CZ82 shoots like a laser due to the fixed barrel. It has a light SA trigger pull to the point where I've fired before I was actually ready for my next shot for crazy-fast double-tap. Wife also verifies CZ82 to be easy to shoot and accurate at SD distances.

P64 is a little beast that can hurt the web of one's hand if several boxes of ammo are fired. Seems to have decent shootability and all but since the mags only hold 6 rounds, I'd rather pack a revolver. Good to have crossed off of your C&R list.

thedriver101
May 17, 2012, 08:51 PM
I believe surfzombie is correct. C&R can only get you Makarov guns older than 50 years (pre 1962), or Makarov guns made in USSR or E. Germany (which no longer exist).

As far as the a Mak goes, I've only shot a CZ82. Recoil wasn't anything special. Not snappy like a .40, but not a 1911 9mm - if that spectrum helps. Pistols aren't particularly refined (but then again, what Soviet bloc firearm is), but they're super durable.

nathan
May 18, 2012, 12:34 AM
The makarov s are awesome CCW guns. I like my Russian whch i carry 80 percent of the time . In hot Houston nothing is better than a small slim pistol. I load mine with Barnaul 95 gr JHP ,

M2 Carbine
May 18, 2012, 03:43 PM
I have a few pistols in the 9x18 and .380 calibers.

9x18 Polisk P-64 and Bulgarian Makarov.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/P64andMak.jpg

Refinished 9x18 East German Makarov.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makchrome.jpg

Makarov compared to a S&W model 60.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/MakMod60.jpg

Bulgarian 22LR conversion.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Mak22conversion.jpg


Some of the East German, Bulgarian and Russin Makarovs, along with CZ 82 and 83, Hungarian PA-63 and Polish P64 pistols. 9x18, .380, .32ACP and even 22LR.
The Makarovs are 9x18, .380 and 22LR.
The CZ 82 is 9x18 and the CZ83 are 9x18, .380 and 32ACP.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/9x18pistols.jpg


The P-64 and PA63 are lower end and inexpensive but still decent guns, after replacing some springs.

The Makarovs and CZ83 are good guns but can also stand heavier recoil springs.
Personally I favor the Makarov over the CZ for no real reason, I just like it better.


All the guns are accurate.
P64 at 50 yards. (standing, two hands)
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/P-6450yards.jpg

Makarov at 52 yards. Standing, two hands. (this Mak shows a LOT of use)
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makarovsteel50yards2.jpg




I tried to make a Makarov malfunction (it didn't).
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makinmud.jpg

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makfiredwithmud.jpg

The gun filled with "pocket lint".
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makcoveredwithlint.jpg

Frozen.
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/Makfrozen_2.jpg

Furncliff
May 18, 2012, 07:43 PM
M2 Carbine has the Makarov thing down pat. Great guns, great photos!

I went with the CZ 82. Mine has an excellent trigger and is most accurate with the least expensive Russian Ammo (Brown Bear). My daughter shoots it, she has never complained about it being snappy. I think the slip on rubber grip helps.

If you ever have to get the CZ worked on, the gunsmiths at CZUSA are knowledgeable and very helpful. Highly recommended. The price on these guns is way out of proportion to what you get. They certainly ring the best bang for the buck buzzer for me.

Now that I've had the 82 for a while, I'd probably by a Makarov if a nice one came my way.

nelson133
May 18, 2012, 08:32 PM
I have CZ82, Russian, East German, and Bulgarian Makarovs and P-83 Polish pistols. I think the P-83 is the sleeper in this group, wholesale price on those I got recently was $167, but they aren't C&R. Make sure you get 2 mags with the gun as the standard Makarov mags don't work.
The CZ82 is a fine pistol, retail on a new CZ83 is about $600 and the only difference is the caliber. The finish isn't great on the 82 though. It is higher capacity than the rest of these and has an American style mag release.
Accuracy is very good in all of these, they are blowback with a fixed barrel. The 82 has a polygonal rifling, the rest have standard rifling. Take down couldn't be simpler.
It is simple to make brass out of 9mm, I run the case through the sizer-decapping die, and trim with a cheap Lee trimmer in an electric drill. Deburr and you are ready to go.
We have trained a number of women on these and they are very popular for carry for beginners. Small and flat (except the CZ) and heavy enough to keep the recoil down.

M2 Carbine
May 18, 2012, 10:04 PM
The CZ82 is a fine pistol, retail on a new CZ83 is about $600 and the only difference is the caliber.
The 83 is also 9x18 and .380 and .32.

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x464/Bell-helicopter-407/CZMak-32.jpg

CZguy
May 19, 2012, 12:31 AM
The CZ82 is a fine pistol, retail on a new CZ83 is about $600 and the only difference is the caliber.

I seem to remember that the CZ 83 is blued while the 82 has some type of paint.

nelson133
May 19, 2012, 06:59 AM
"The finish isn't great on the 82 though."
Yup the CZ82 has a paint like finish that tends to chip. The CZ83 is still in production and therefore new parts for the 82 are readily available, unlike the resat of these pistols.

MrDig
May 19, 2012, 11:49 AM
If I was going to buy one I would get one of the Surplus CZ 82 or 83's from JG Sales.
Word of caution though Detail stripping them is a major pain. Actually from what I have read disassembly is easy, reassembly is the problem. Many a smith has wound up making big money from a Bag O Gun that was a surplus CZ 82/83 DIY project.
Field Stripping is not the problem. Detail stripping to refurbish is.

harmon rabb
May 20, 2012, 12:21 PM
I have CZ82, Russian, East German, and Bulgarian Makarovs and P-83 Polish pistols. I think the P-83 is the sleeper in this group, wholesale price on those I got recently was $167, but they aren't C&R. Make sure you get 2 mags with the gun as the standard Makarov mags don't work.

The P-83's are interesting. I have a pair of them. One of them has FTRTB problems -- I think the recoil spring is too weak and needs to be replaced. I'm going to try a Wolfe recoil spring for a Mak and see if it works.

I'm convinced that what the Poles actually wanted as a Makarov, but had too much national pride to just ask the Ruskies for the design. So they took a Mak and tried to design a pistol that handled and shot exactly like one -- the feel when shooting (trigger, recoil, ergos) is so similar to a Mak that with your eyes closed, I don't think you'd know the difference.

For serious use though I'd stick with a Mak or a CZ-82. Parts are readily available for both, and both are proven designs with long service histories. Apparently some Czech military units are still issued CZ-82's.

The PA63 is a fun one if you want some pretty commie milsurp. It's like tons of them were built, then never issued. I've never even seen one that showed the slightest signs of use. They're very nicely finished.

P64 is the smallest and easiest to carry. It's like it was designed for concealed carry (maybe it was? maybe the original design was for plainclothes cops?). They took a walther PP, shrunk it down, then melted the edges. That's somehow not what you do when you're aiming to create a service pistol to be carried in duty holsters, I would think..

I used to carry mine when I wanted to just grab something and go. In a cheap holster, clipped inside any belt quickly, it concealed well under a t-shirt and was very comfortable. Functioned 100% with anything I fed it.

But then I read a couple stories of how they can fire when dropped with the safety off. So now I no longer carry it, which is a shame.

The CZ-82's have the best trigger of the bunch and are comfortable to shoot. They're great shooters, reliable. Would sleep like a baby with one on the nightstand if that was all I owned.

PabloJ
May 20, 2012, 01:43 PM
I've had my C&R since around Valentine's Day and haven't put it to use yet. I'm thinking about one of the various Makarov-chambered guns as a good first use.

I know the CZ82 is probably top of the heap and it's available for $200-220 at various on-line places.

How about the other guns? How do they compare? While it would probably be a plinker, if it shoots comfortably it could also see use as a rough-duty CCW (i.e., post-hurricane clean up, etc. - where I don't care if it gets scuffed, dropped, or loaned to a neighbor).

Final question...some people say the recoil is very snappy. I have a Taurus 738 in .380 that I just do NOT enjoy shooting at all. Is the 9Mak worse than that gun?

Q
Local dealer Patriot Services, Inc had one at recent show. Commercial -17AS in little used shape with beautiful uniform nickel plating. At $289 that is the nicest Eastern European production gun for the money spent one is likely to encounter. The 9mm Krutz chambering is a nice bonus.

Pilot
May 21, 2012, 03:20 AM
Local dealer Patriot Services, Inc had one at recent show. Commercial -17AS in little used shape with beautiful uniform nickel plating. At $289 that is the nicest Eastern European production gun for the money spent one is likely to encounter. The 9mm Krutz chambering is a nice bonus.

That's a B-West Import. The Satin Nickel Makarovs all came over in .380. I have one.

$289 isn't a bad price.

toivo
May 21, 2012, 03:33 AM
As far as the a Mak goes, I've only shot a CZ82. Recoil wasn't anything special. Not snappy like a .40, but not a 1911 9mm - if that spectrum helps. Pistols aren't particularly refined (but then again, what Soviet bloc firearm is), but they're super durable.
Hmm ... I would call the CZ-82 the most refined of all the 9x18 Mak caliber pistols. To put it on the US civilian market as a new handgun, all they did was eliminate the lanyard ring and chamber it in .380 -- I think that tells the whole story.

tryshoot
May 22, 2012, 03:12 AM
Love my PA-63, andsmc-918. Great guns I carry alot.

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