[whetrock]

I was surfing youtube today and found a couple of positive videos regarding this somewhat obscure handgun brand. Call me oblivious but I don't believe I've heard of this comapany and can't find just a whole lot on the net ( I'm pretty limited as far as google-fu goes) regarding these pistols and was curious if anyone on this sight had any first hand experience with them. They are manufatured in the U.A.E. which I found a bit odd:scrutiny:. Also I could be mislead but they look like quality to me and kinda Glock esque.

[9mmepiphany]

Take a look at our sister site ShootingReviews.com for my report (http://www.shootingreviews.com/caracal-designed-to-challenge-glock/) on the Caracal from the SHOT Show and shooting impressions (http://www.shootingreviews.com/caracal-9mm/)

...and then there is this thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659612) from yesterday

[JohnKSa]

Also I could be mislead but they look like quality to me and kinda Glock esque.The designer of the Caracal, Wilhelm Bubits, also did at least some of the design work on the Glock.

[9mmepiphany]

Yes he did. He was very open about the respective designs when I spoke with him...somewhat to the alarm of the company president who was also there.

Bubits considers the Caracal a product improvement over the Austrian pistol. And he said this as no longer being a Caracal employee

[boylit]

i ordered 1... will report when it's released...

-----

here's what i posted in an earlier thread:

-----

my LGS allowed me to shoot their shelf unit... i fired 50 rounds on the 2-dot sight version and quick sight (QS) version...

in my very unprofessional hands, it seemed like the pistols tracked their own shots... at 15m, 5-shot groups fired in rapid succession were within 3in diameter circles... likely due to the smooooooooth trigger pull and minimal flip... of course, if i badly shot the 1st round, the other 4 would be equally bad...

shot it against the 24/7 G2 and a Tanfolgio/Armscor MAPP1... i'd have to say i was getting the opposite results from what i expected... i was able to find targets faster with the G2 than either caracal... but the caracals were more consistent and faster in follow up shots...

the MAPP1 is really nice (cheapest of the bunch by a fair margin too) but it just didn't float my boat... i'd have to say the DA pull is the worst of the bunch but SA was sweet... this resulted in 1 shot way off followed by 4 consistent shots (though less consisten than the G2)... if i didn't have a thing of firing from DA for the 1st shot, i'd likely enjoy it...

between the caracals, the QS was quicker at finding targets than the 2-dot system... the QS looks like it'll take some range time to get used to... the difference in target acquisition between the G2 and QS is minimal but noticeable... maybe i just got used to the G2 over the last weeks...

i just couldn't come to terms with the 2-dot version... i couldn't find the target which seemed to be covered by both front and rear sights (no gap between the front sight box and the walls of the rear sight)... i was consistently off target by several inches...

if i were forced to use a pistol against an attacker right now, i'd still say the G2 would be my pick... i'm likely to find the target sooner and fire with it... the slick trigger of the QS also needs serious getting used to... with no safeties and what feels like a light SA pull every time, the QS seems scary to carry... time will tell if the QS will change my mind...

[Sgt_R]

I've shot one. It was interesting, but I would rather have a Glock or M&P.

R

[TJx]

I handled one at a gunshop and thought they were about $200 overpriced. Terrible ergos, loose fit, cheap feeling.
You can buy a Springfield XD Essential package for a little less and to say the XD is superior is an understatement. IMHO.

[PabloJ]

I handled one at a gunshop and thought they were about $200 overpriced. Terrible ergos, loose fit, cheap feeling.
You can buy a Springfield XD Essential package for a little less and to say the XD is superior is an understatement. IMHO.
It sounds like you were shown a Keltec. The two I examined at LGS were first rate products. The fit, finish and ergonomics were at top of polymer gun heap.

[boylit]

I handled one at a gunshop and thought they were about $200 overpriced. Terrible ergos, loose fit, cheap feeling.
You can buy a Springfield XD Essential package for a little less and to say the XD is superior is an understatement. IMHO.
the unit must've issues...

the ones i fired had excellent fit and finish, fired well and felt great (F QS = 50 rds, F SS = 50 rds, C SS 100 rds)... so much so, i ordered the F QS right there and then...

the last few weeks, i've been in search of a 9mm pistol... tried the glock 17 (stock and modded), glock 19 (stock and modded), hs9 (springfield xd in the US), sti gp6, sti gp6c, armscor mapp1 (tanfoglio force 99 polymer), armscor map1 (tanfoglio force 99), taurus 24/7 g2 (my wife liked and got this), bersa thunder pro 9, cz shadow, armscor 1911-based 9mm and a few others...

to give each a fair shake, i shot between 50 to 100 rounds for each pistol firing from 5m, 10m, 15m and 20m (where possible)... took time to read the manual and learn the controls and handling of each... then tried to operate all controls the way i'd do in a shooting situation...

of all the pistols i tried, the caracal F QS was the only 1 that had me wanting to take it home from the 1st time i fired it...

[Sapper771]

I have handled several of them. It appears to be a quality firearm. All of the ones that I was able to inspect were fitted properly. The trigger pull smooth with a crisp break. Trigger reset was glock-esque. The pistol felt good in the hand, but not great. The grip angle is closer to the Steyr than to the Glock. I understand that there are two versions of sights, a standard and a quick sight , aka QS. The front sight is dovetailed in and the rear sight appeared to be part of the slide plate. All of the ones that I have seen in my area have been priced close to $700.

My Opinion: While I like the pistol, I won't be buying one. The pistol is smooth with a tight lock up but I feel they are over priced. I do not care for the rear sight design. It limits you to what sights one can get for the pistol. The company and the design are both new, so it will take time to get them properly vetted. When I disassembled the Caracal F model and was looking on the under side of the slide, I couldn't help but feel that some of the parts looked a bit fragile. That's just me though. The grip angle is more swept than the Glock, so some will have issues with that.

The last thing that sort of throws me off is that they backed out of producing them in the U.S.A. . Carcal had a facility, a manager, and a materials supplier all lined up. For some reason, they back out and decided that they were going to produce them in the U.A.E. instead. Unsure as to why they made this decision, but I have been told that this is the reason that there was a lull in the availability of the caracal pistols in the U.S. during that time (last 6-8 months). This information, I guarantee, is not 100% accurate, but it was heard from a reliable source. Still doesn't make it gospel, IMO.

Regardless, I wish them the best of luck. I enjoy competition and innovation in the Firearms industry. Just seems like the same old stuff keeps coming out....nothing truly revolutionary in a while ,just everyone reinventing the wheel.

[whetrock]

Sorry guys for starting a whole new thread on a topic that was discussed just yesterday. I don't look at the Autoloader sub forum too often so I guess I missed it. Also I'm really digging these pistols overall and at the moment lack a full sized 9mm in my collection so I might be considering one of these to fill the gap. Also 9mmepiphany that was an excellent and helpful review that really shed a bit of light for me on the Caracal pistol internaly the guide rod, barrel, and slide look pretty Glock to me but the lower receiver/frame (on the inside) looks a little bit different, but still I'm attracted to the gun and if spare Mags are readily available I might have found a decent alternative to the Glock 19 ( aside for the M&P 9 and XD) but still I might go the Glock route for the sake of aftermarket parts and what not, with that being said if the Caracal trigger is as good as they say it may be good to go from the factory and might not need any aftermarket "stuff".

[Firewire]

Another good article from Hand Guns Mag:

http://www.handgunsmag.com/2012/04/23/the-caracal-pistol/

Center Fire Systems has them for $399 right now too.

[intercooler]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv5vS7I-m34

[nevadabob]

Brought one home last week via Gallery of Guns. Excellent ergonomics, high quality, and a nice shooter. I really like the quick sight system. This is a keeper for me!

[Urban_Redneck]

I bought a Caracal F last week. For me, the ergonomics are much better than the Glock (no finger grooves), the trigger much better than the M&P, recoil is much less than the XD, and the price much less than the PPQ.

After 200 rounds last Tuesday, I think I'll black out the rear white dot.


YMMV

[David E]

Handled one yesterday. It points VERY high for me.

Don't like the rear sight design, either. It may have potential, but it's in desperate need of interchangeable backstraps. Then again, so is Glock.

[Walking Dead]

My question is where do they fit in? With Glock, S&W, Ruger, Springfied and FNusa doing all these striker fired polymers is the Caracal just around to be different? Do they offer anything you can't already get from a proven design with an aftearket following like the others?

[Urban_Redneck]

I don't believe there is anything "revolutionary" about the Caracal. The pistol's designer, Wilhelm Bubitz worked for Glock, and designed the Steyr M series, this is a well designed pistol. I do believe they have, in many respects, evolved/resolved past the shortcomings of the current market leaders.

The pistol has passed the most rigorous NATO and German Federal Police trials.

Now, the rest is marketing i.e. improving US distribution (they have a new importer and Lipsey's is wholesaling) , getting test pistols out to the writers, blue guns to the holster makers (sending holsters with T&E guns is a big plus), placing good print and web ads, shoot sponsorships, etc.

IMHO, if you are a diehard fan for another platform and have a shoebox full of mags and milk crate overflowing with holsters, I doubt you will abandon what you have. However, if you're like me, and you don't have that bond, and want a reliable, very shootable, 9mm polymer pistol the Caracal is worth a look.

$0.02

Jim

[Prince Yamato]

I'm interested in the sub compact model. It looks like it would be a neat gun.

[sturmgewehr]

I posted a review several months ago. I own both the full sized and C (compact) models.

I've put them through some pretty extensive testing at this point. Here's the review.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnpprZgirKs

So far I've found the pistols to be of good quality. I've been having some problems with the C staying locked open on the last shot fired with WWB and Federal bulk pack ammo. Not a major concern, but it is troublesome.

[Nushif]

I've been having some problems with the C staying locked open on the last shot fired with WWB and Federal bulk pack ammo. Not a major concern, but it is troublesome.

You'll find that is the case with most military/euro guns. The cheap ammo here seems to be just that tad bit too anemic to cycle a "combat pistol."
For a test on that one, try some S&B and see if that does it too. If it doesn't it really is just low powered ammo.

[boylit]

a quick look at how the Caracal pistols are made with some pics from the Caracal factory... by Guns & Tactics

http://flic.kr/s/aHsjzx8P1G

[ExMachina]

Handled one yesterday. It points VERY high for me.


I have become convinced that the tendency to point high is by design for both the Glock and the Caracal.

No gun will fit every hand and pointing high is better than pointing low since pointing high still allows the shooter to see the front sight.

--------------------

Overall the Caracal is a fantastic handling and shooting pistol. I continue to be impressed with mine!

[Nushif]

No gun will fit every hand [...]

Not to mention that "fitting the hand" is purely a learned behavior to hold the hand. Nobody came out of the womb holding a 1911. Everyone learned. It's not exactly a stretch to think that *le gasp* not everyone learns the same gun. 8)

[Skylerbone]

All of the ones that I have seen in my area have been priced close to $700.

Try Bud's, average price across the line-up is about $450, tempting enough to consider trying at that price.

[ExMachina]

All of the ones that I have seen in my area have been priced close to $700.

Centerfire Systems has Caracals for $399

[Spanky Albert]

I have been emailing the new distributor for Caracal here in the US, and he has informed me that they plan on marketing these guns more in the coming months. I have noticed that budsgunshop.com now has a Caracal section. They have popped up on other online retailer's sites too. I am seriously considering getting a C model with the Quick Action sites myself.

[Jim NE]

My question is where do they fit in? With Glock, S&W, Ruger, Springfied and FNusa doing all these striker fired polymers is the Caracal just around to be different?

Is company ownership in the middle east? I'm just wondering if their aim is to get military contracts in the middle east, as opposed to letting the Europeans, Americans or Asians get all the business. That might explain their entry into what might seem to be (from our perspective) a saturated market.

Saw some at Bud's last week. Looked intriguing considering the low price.

[easyg]

You'll find that is the case with most military/euro guns. The cheap ammo here seems to be just that tad bit too anemic to cycle a "combat pistol."
I've shot CZs, Sigs, HKs, Glocks, XDs, Berettas, Brownings, and plenty of other "combat pistols", and I've never had this problem with cheap ammo.

[Nushif]

I've shot CZs, Sigs, HKs, Glocks, XDs, Berettas, Brownings, and plenty of other "combat pistols", and I've never had this problem with cheap ammo.

Not *every* "combat pistol" has this problem.

Notice two things:
Quotation marks on "combat pistol" implying that every pistol is potentially a combat pistol or that the designation is inherently meaningless. Secondly, notice the "most" part. I am actually saying that budget euro ammo such as S&B is a bit more "oohmphy" than the American version thereof. Do I have scientifically valid data on this? No, but it seems to be concensuss and from my personal experience this is the case as well.

I maintain that the class of guns classified by this loose concept of "combat pistol" (to be precise, this implies a full size pistol designed not for concealed carry in the caliber of 9mm Luger/Parabellum/9x19mm) does require rounds that are above SAAMI minimum loading speccs for a given caliber and usually close to the military specification of said caliber.

Not all of them require this, but I would not at all be surprised if that suddely miraculously solved the problem.

[plouffedaddy]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/DSC01637.jpg

I love mine so far. I'll do some chrono tests of them this weekend to see which ammo they seem to like/not like. So far, both guns love all ammo in my experience.

[Urban_Redneck]

I bought up my first polymer pistol 10 days ago...after shooting the Glock, M&P, and XD, I ordered the Caracal F sight unseen.

After 200 rounds last Tuesday I ordered extra mags and a custom holster. I fired another 200 rounds yesterday. On the drive home, I found myself thinking I should buy a C before the rest of America catches on and the price goes up ;)

[plouffedaddy]

That's why I snagged one too---the prices will go up; these guns are awesome.

[ExMachina]

Yup. For me, a $395 pistol with a so much going for it was a no-brainer. Now, I'm feeling foolish for not getting two!

[PabloJ]

I've shot CZs, Sigs, HKs, Glocks, XDs, Berettas, Brownings, and plenty of other "combat pistols", and I've never had this problem with cheap ammo.
I think that applies only to the Glock pistol. Whenever Glock fails to fire it's ALWAYS the shooter (limp wrist syndrome) or the ammo is no good.

[mr.trooper]

If I had more substantial funding, I would own a set with the snap sights.

[Skylerbone]

Or it needs the new version 7.62 recoil spring set-up or version 007 extractor (that can be installed in 2 min. each time it fails) or a secret phantom trigger bar or the reloads were bad or the factory ammo was defective or...anyone miss the Gen. 2s yet?

[Browns Fan]

Does the full size mags fit in the compact gun?

[Firewire]

Yes, full size fit in the Compact. 18rd vs 15rd.

[David E]

Handled one yesterday. It points VERY high for me.

Hmmm, first time I quoted myself in response!

I've been able to handle this gun throughout the week and something strange happened...it stopped pointing high. I still have to be careful about stock Glocks doing the same, so I was surprised how quickly and unexpectedly I melded with the gun.

Not shot it yet, tho.

[Urban_Redneck]

...I was surprised how quickly and unexpectedly I melded with the gun.



I primarily shoot a 1911 and had the same experience :)

Fair warning; if you shoot one, it's likely to follow you home ;)

[tekarra]

Yes, the Caracal is made in the UAE.

[plouffedaddy]

They're also made in Germany. The ones imported here in the US come from UAE and are imported by Waffen Works.