[Owen Sparks]

The 300 blackout gives 7.62 x 39 ballistics from a standard AR. It is a way around the problem of feeding a tapered 7.62 x 39 case through the straight section of the magazine well of an AR that was not designed for curved magazines. The problem with the 300 Blackout is that you almost have to reload for it. The 7.62 x 39 is designed to work with the curved AK 47 magazine. Rock River has solved the problem by designing an AR chambered in 7.62 x 39 that takes standard curved AK magazines.

See for yourself:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=558

You can get 7.62 x 39 rounds ANYWHERE that sells ammunition.
Try getting .300 Blackout at Wall-Mart.

[candr44]

The AR should have been made for a tapered round in the first place. When the tapered casing moves back just a couple thousands of an inch it is loose and free of the chamber wall so it extracts a lot easier and more reliably.

It makes more sense than the casing and chamber scraping on each other the whole length of the casing. It would also make using steel case ammo more reliable.

[mshootnit]

didnt bushmaster have an AR with an AK magwell a while back? or was that like the masada?

[Owen Sparks]

Tapered rounds feed more reliabaly in any caliber.

[Elkins45]

My understanding is that the biggest problem with the x39 in the AR is that the bigger case head doesn't leave much meat on the bolt lugs. If this is true then a new
magwell won't make much difference.

[Walkalong]

I would just as soon have an AK for 7.62X39, although the accuracy potential is much greater in an AR setup, if only because people will expect it, and makers will supply excellent barrels.

The RRA offering is certainly interesting. I do not believe it will kill the .300 Blackout though.

[TurtlePhish]

It's a little, ah... expensive. I'd rather have 2 or 3 AKs for that price. It looks pretty cool though. I bet it's fun to shoot.

[Kachok]

Yep, been saying it for a while, 7.62x39 will trump the 300. I knew it was a matter or time before someone perfects an AK/AR rifle. If the 300 offered something over the x39 it would still have a place, but with no increase in power, trajectory, ballistcs....etc the cheaper established surplus cambering will emerge the clear winner.

[R.W.Dale]

Remember the 300blk still uses standard bolts, magazines, pieces of brass (opened up n shortened 223) and best of all the much superior selection of .308" bullets.

The AK mag lower only addresses one of these key advantages


Tapered rounds feed more reliabaly in any caliber.

They also increase bolt thrust.

[Owen Sparks]

Yea but it does not use standard ammunition that is on the shelf ar Wall-Mart.

[R.W.Dale]

Yea but it does not use standard ammunition that is on the shelf ar Wall-Mart.

Have you priced wal mart's 7.62x39mm?

Folks worried about the wal mart factor stick with 223/5.56

[Walkalong]

Only a matter of time when .300 Blackout is on shelves. I doubt it will be a easy to find as .223 & 7.62X39, but it will be there.

Can't wait for my back ordered barrel to be in stock. :)

[Well Now]

I haven't had a problem getting 300Blk except for the Barnes 110 gr black tip, which I just ordered last week and will be delivered Monday. I have plenty of 147 gr, 130 gr, 125 gr both plain and nosler ballistic, 115 gr, at home, and soon to have the 110 gr.

I don't need to run to a local store to buy it when I get on the computer, order it, and it's shipped to my door. anyone who can't find ammo for 300Blk, isn't looking hard enough or in the right places.

One thing with the 300Blk I've found, is that people either find a reason to have one or find a reason to hate it.

[armarsh]

I'd rather have the 300 BLK. I reload, and I am not interested in steel cased ammo. :barf:

I recently tried to find 7.62x39 with copper jacketed bullets in brass boxer primed cases. I could make my own cheaper starting out with new brass.

Then there is the fact that you have an oddball lower. That is another deal-breaker for me. I really have no idea why anyone would want this except to burn up woof ammo at the range. Any AK can do that for 1/3 the cost.

[RhinoDefense]

Yea but it does not use standard ammunition that is on the shelf ar Wall-Mart.
Seriously? That's your argument? You use availability at WalMart to gauge your acceptance of a cartridge? Wow.

[firesky101]

The .300 blackout is more versatile than the 7.62x39 simple as that. Much greater selection of bullets allows an extremely wide spread of speeds and weights. 7.62x39 basically comes in 123-154gr and all are supersonic. I am not knocking the 7.62x39 (I own many), but if you want to go suppressor then it is all about .300 BLK (I own none).

[greyling22]

I thought the whole point of the 300 whisper, I mean blackout, was to shoot subsonics with a suppressor. I've yet to hear (no pun intended) much abuut subsonic x39's.

[B!ngo]

I'm not an expert in the area of SAAMI or ammo trends per se but I would predict that in 5 years we'll look back at the 300 Blackout as a failed experiment by a private conglomerate to create a new and popular ammo standard.
Comparing it to the 7.62x39 from a ballistics and performance standpoint misses the issue that the 'AK round' is an open and worldwide de facto standard, as is .223 and among many others and one other very important round in particular, the .308 Winchester. The resurgence of the .308 leveraged by the SCAR 17H will create a rebirth of innovation around the round, including likely creating a new AR-like variant standard for the round. That last piece has been missing, but the interest by the civilian population in following the growing adoption by the military of same will leave little room for the widespread acceptance of the .300B.
None of this has anything to do with relative merits of the round(s) themselves.
Just a bit of crystal ball gazing, but I've seen this movie before.

[gotigers]

Very nice concept, but the price is high. Maybe it will come down as more get to market.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

Could someone please explain the .300 Blackout craze to me? Why is it so popular all of a sudden and everyone seems to want one?

[R.W.Dale]

Could someone please explain the .300 Blackout craze to me? Why is it so popular all of a sudden and everyone seems to want one?

Because everyone wants a suppressor now and 300 bulk is the suppressor friendly cartridge that works in an AR15

[acorn1754]

My main concern with that, is can you swap over a standard 5.56 upper and still be able to use AR mags? If not, then that's completely worthless IMO, as the whole point of a AR is versatility and rapid switching of upper receivers, like going from a 5.56 to a 6.8 SPC or 300 blackout and back again. I'd rather spend 1/3 of the $ for a AK if that's all it can be used for shooting the 7.62x39 round... In any case, without the versatility, won't make a dent in the 300 Blackout market. Now if I'm wrong and that versatility does exist, maybe slightly, but like others have said, the 300 Blackout has many other factors (like round weight/velocity) that make it appealing.

[kozak6]

No.

It seems like the main purpose of the .300 blk is for suppressor use with supersonic applications a distant second.

7.62x39 may not be the best round for use with a suppressor.

Also, the .300 blk is basically a reloader's caliber. Reloaders generally aren't interested in 7.62x39.

However, there does seem to be some demand for a 7.62x39 AR that works well. Hopefully, we will see something similar and more affordable from other manufacturers.

[Auto426]

With the stockpiles of uber-cheap comblock 7.62x39 drying up, I don't see this as making anything obsolete. 300 BLK really seems to be taking off in the AR world, and the people looking for the cheapest possible cartridge to shoot have mostly moved on to the 5.45.

[68wj]

I still maintain that Walmart is a poor metric for cartridge selection. This RRA option is likely the best choice for someone wanting an AR in x39, but it gives up a lot of commonality too.

[Walkalong]

I would predict that in 5 years we'll look back at the 300 Blackout as a failed experiment by a private conglomerate to create a new and popular ammo standard.I'll take that bet. How about a "cold drink" to the winner?

[RhinoDefense]

The point of the .300 BLK is improved x39 ballistics from an AR. Suppressed only shooting is not the only intention of the 300 BLK. It performs very well with supersonic ammunition. Think of supersonic 300 BLK as a 30-30 from an AR15 with performance extending to 300y.

As far as the 300 BLK being fad that dies out in 5 years, the parent of this cartridge, 300 Whisper, has been around 40 years as a wildcat. Now it's been improved and standardized as a SAAMI cartridge with major and small ammunition manufacturers supporting it as well as firearms manufacturers. Nothing has taken off this fast and has been so popular so quickly since the .40 S&W. And people said that wouldn't be around in 5 years either.

[Nikdfish]

W/regard to the thread title - no...

As to suppressed operation being the only/primary function of a 300BLK - no to that as well. I didn't purchase a 300 with suppression in mind.

I like a 30 cal option in a mainstream AR platform without having to do the 7.62x51 bit. Especially using a round that takes advantage of components I already have available. I.E. Fired through an upper that will mate with a standard AR lower, use mainstream AR bolts and magazines, can be built from projectiles that also work with my .308 or 30-06, and whose brass is easily formed from my spent .223 or 5.56 cases. A PBR of 200+ yards handles my anticipated typical uses quite nicely.

Nick

[25cschaefer]

You can use the same lower and bolt face for the blackout as you use for 223 or any number of other calibers.

[dubbleA]

delete

[dubbleA]

Consumers will dictate the outcome plain and simple........

In my case I went with a suppressed 9 inch 300 blackout. It's sole purpose is for shooting 220 or 240 SMK's sub sonics very quietly with decent accuracy in a small package.

Factory 300 Blackout fodder can be had in all flavors today. While a year ago ammo was hard to find it's getting easier everyday, it's just a mouse click away if you dont handload it. If you handload, there are many components to choose from as it takes a standard .308" bullet.

The 7.62x39 cartridge or AK/SKS platform has never appealed to me nor does an AR in the same.

[Saakee]

There is this (https://www.mgi-military.com/store/index.php?product_id=34&type=&category=) interchangeable magwell system. It's almost obscenely expensive but it has an AK magwell attachment for it as well as many other calibers so this RRA isn't the first AR Pattern with an AK magwell.

[451 Detonics]

The 300 Whisper (and it's copies) was never meant to be a replacement for the 7.62X39, it was designed to shoot a 220 grain projectile at subsonic speed for use with a suppressor and it does that job exceedingly well. Out of a well put together rifle it can achieve accuracy the 7.62X39 can only dream about and Since Remington and Hornady have started making ammo for it I haven't had any issue locating ammo online usually.

If your intent when you go to the range is to make every time you step up to the firing line a "mad minute" and bump fire away full mags the yes...the 7.62X39 is the way to go. However if your intent is to make each round count, to improve your skills, and become a well trained rifleman than you can appreciate the higher quality ammunition even tho it is more expensive.

I'll keep my Whisper...

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/rifles/whisper1.jpg

[oldpapps]

"You can get 7.62 x 39 rounds ANYWHERE that sells ammunition.
Try getting .300 Blackout at Wall-Mart."

This matters little if any. I make all of my own stuff, well, not 22RF. So, store bought stuff availability has no bearing for me.

"predict that in 5 years we'll look back at the 300 Blackout as a failed experiment"

I don't think that will be the case. Even if it were to happen, first how would you know? And I would still be cutting down and re-forming my .223/5.56 brass, using the same primers as I do in my .223/5.56 loads, burn the same H110/296 as I do in my .44, pitch the same 110g varmint bullets and 147/150g bullets as my .308/7.62s and 06s. All with the same lower, BCG and magazines as any other AR in .223/5.56.

I don't have or want a SBR or any use for a suppressor, so those are non points.

Besides, I have a long term dislike for things that have been used to shoot at me or mine. No 7.62X39 rounds or weapons for me. To each their own. All of this super cheap ammo and weapons will dry up just like the Mausers and SMLEs of years past. (I don't do Mausers as well.)

So far I'm happy with my play toy .300 BlackOut. I think it will fill all of the nitch that I hoped it would. And it is fun.

[Panzercat]

Here's your problem-- 5 billion ARs chambered in 5.56 with the potential of .300blk compatibility versus a single company supplying a unique line of modded ARs for 7.62. Moreover, I'd be willing to bet the design is propriatary and patented, ensuring you won't see wide spread distribution.

It's not a matter of finding .300blk in walmart (which is convenient, but hardly Sportsman's warehouse) it's a matter of rifles in service. Also, the price for the new, unique platform. Don't get me wrong, it's a swell idea, but it's not going to spontaneously kill off .300blk by merely existing.

[kfgk14]

A few issues with the x39. One, it is not designed to be an accurate cartridge. The .300 BLK is. The .300 is also available in subsonic. The x39 is as well, just not as proliferated.

Two, that is a proprietary lower. The Blackout uses standard everything (excepting the barrel of course).

Three, the reason the AR was made to shoot 5.56 and the reason that 5.56 isn't tapered a la x39 is that american military rounds have traditionally been made long and skinny (7.62x51, .30-06, et al). It is more conducive to accuracy and is easier to store/carry (magazines are straighter, stripper clips are straighter, etc.) this also makes the spring geometry of the magazine more straightforward.

Four, an AR-15 upper is still limited in size. there just isn't that much room for a big fat round like the x39 (on the bolt face, you run out of room for lugs fast).

If you want cheap, soviet rounds in an AR, get a 5.45 from Spikes. If you want to shoot x39, buy an AK.

If you want x39 ballistics in an AR, buy .300 blackout and a .22 upper for training.

[-v-]

Huh, weren't we talking how the 6.8SPC II was going to render .223/5.56 and 7.62x39 obsolete and confine them to the annals of firearms history only a few years ago? How the 6.8SPC gave the "punch" of the 7.62x39 with the ballistics of a 5.56? Sure the 300BLK is interesting and everyone is going to be super excited about it, for the next two or three years, until the next caliber comes out that is AR friendly and "totally trounces everything into the ground! The NEW Wave in the AR!!" and puts the 300blk back on the back shelf along with he 6.8SPC 30 Remington AR, 6.5 Grendel, and all the other niche calibers.

kfgk14: While it may be true that a strait-walled round is easier to carry, it is also intrinsically less reliable in a firearm. Additionally, straight magazine is OK, if you plan to have maybe 20 rounds max in a magazine, after that a curvature is needed to ensure reliability. As I am sure you are aware, one of the causes of Pmag reliability is that they have a continuous internal curvature to them.

As for strait walled being more accurate? Not sure where you get that. Accuracy comes from consistency. Good chamber, good rifling, and consistent bullet and powder weights give you accuracy. For the best powder burn consistency you want a short fat case. Look at the latest crop of super-short magnums where the brass looks almost like a baloon.

[wally]

A few issues with the x39. One, it is not designed to be an accurate cartridge ...

I guess you missed this thread:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=659597

Now that I have a 7.62 suppressor and an SBR AR lower, the .300 Blackout suddenly looks a whole lot more interesting to me!

The fact you can "recycle" one of your ARs into a .300blk with only a barrel change (hardly rocket science with the AR) makes the entry price about a low as possible.

[Walkalong]

The fact you can "recycle" one of your ARs into a .300blk with only a barrel change (hardly rocket science with the AR) makes the entry price about a low as possible.That is exactly what I am doing.

[Owen Sparks]

Does anyone know what happened to the Remington .30 AR or is it the same cartridge?

[wally]

Does anyone know what happened to the Remington .30 AR or is it the same cartridge?

The .30 RAR is based on the Bushmaster .450, its a rebated rim design introduced in 2008, never really took off.

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/2008/10/remington-introduces-new-30-remington-ar-cartridge/

I think .300blk has already blown it away in terms of 3rd party interest.

[451 Detonics]

The 30 Remington AR suffered from a fatal flaw, there isn't any cheap parent brass for wildcatters and reloads to make brass from, this is the advantage the 300 Whisper (and copies) has, there is tons of cheap .223 brass for conversion laying around. When it comes to the Remington round, and the .450 as well, the brass was almost as much as the loaded ammo.

[millertyme]

Reminds me of a few other novel and fairly unsuccessful endeavors to increase the AR's potential:

6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Beowolf

Then there's the .30 RAR. The round has its merits, but it applies to so few people that no amount of advertising and hype will get it to catch on when people look at the economics of getting into it. Sure, it's not all that expensive (or difficult) to rebarrel your AR in .300BLK, but the cost of ammo alone will fail to justify doing so for any real purposes. It will remain an obscure chambering that only a few will keep.

[rsilvers]

I'm not an expert in the area of SAAMI or ammo trends per se but I would predict that in 5 years we'll look back at the 300 Blackout as a failed experiment by a private conglomerate to create a new and popular ammo standard.

Not a chance of that. 30 caliber is very desirable to so many people, and AR15s are now the most popular rifle. 300 BLK is the best way to do 30 caliber in an AR. Now that it is out, and over 100 companies are supporting it, it already is popular. The Barnes ammo sold out in 6 hours at midwayusa.

[rsilvers]

No.

It seems like the main purpose of the .300 blk is for suppressor use with supersonic applications a distant second.

Normal full power ammo is by far the most common use for it. A 30 caliber AR15 - as simple as that. Subsonic is a distant second side benefit to some people.

Also, the .300 blk is basically a reloader's caliber. Reloaders generally aren't interested in 7.62x39.

Weird. How so? Ammunition is available from Atlanta Arms, Arnold's Ammo, Barnes, Black Hills, BVAC, CMMG, Cor-Bon, Custom Reloads of Dallas, Double Tap, Gunn, Hornady, Hunting Shack, Lehigh Defense, McCourt Munitions, Remington, RUAG, One Shot, PNW Arms , Profire Arms & Supply, Raven Armament Company, Red Star Ammunition, Right 2 Bear Ammo, Sheepdog Ammo, Silver State Armory, Southern Ballistic Research, Southwest Ammunition LLC, Summit, The Bullet Works, Top Notch Tactical, Ultra Tech (Australia), and Wilson Combat.

[rsilvers]

this is the advantage the 300 Whisper (and copies)

You say this every chance you get, but it is revisionist history to call the 300-221 or 300 Fireball a copy of the Whisper as they predated the Whisper. I have posted photos of 30 caliber 223s from 1969 and you have seen them, but keep on commenting. SSK's main contribution was making an AR run subsonic and then promoting it to keep it popular. No doubt, a very significant contribution.

While the 300 AAC Blackout came out well after the Whisper and shares the same concept, it brings to the table several things:

1. SAAMI standard, so anyone can make guns or ammo royalty-free.
2. Works from most 5.56mm brass.
3. Commercial ammo that works reliably in normal magazined with no need to modify them to enjoy full capacity.
4. Commercial ammo / guns which work both subsonic and supersonic with no requirement for adjustable gas systems.
5. Cheap brass and ammunition prices are 1/4 the price of Whisper ammo from two years ago.
6. Longer throat than the tightest Whisper chamber, so supersonic can be loaded a little hotter.

[rsilvers]

Reminds me of a few other novel and fairly unsuccessful endeavors to increase the AR's potential:

6.5 Grendel
6.8 SPC
.450 Bushmaster
.458 SOCOM
.50 Beowolf

Then there's the .30 RAR. The round has its merits, but it applies to so few people that no amount of advertising and hype will get it to catch on when people look at the economics of getting into it. Sure, it's not all that expensive (or difficult) to rebarrel your AR in .300BLK, but the cost of ammo alone will fail to justify doing so for any real purposes. It will remain an obscure chambering that only a few will keep.

Those cartridges all have some great uses, but do require special bolts and magazines and/or have reduced capacity. 300 BLK has no such problem. Also 300 BLK ammo is way cheaper - $11 a box now.

The cost of ammo may be more than Russian 5.45mm ammo, but compared to other wildly-popular 30 caliber rounds, such as 30-30, it is cheaper.

Tons of people love 30 cal. And it is the cheapest 308-bullet cal AR15 solution (aside from 0.311 Russian-bore solutions).

Millions and millions of rounds of 300 BLK ammo are being sold already, and the guns only just started being available - so it will only get bigger.

[303tom]

About every place you look the .300 AAC is on sale, somebody is trying to get shed em............

[rsilvers]

About every place you look the .300 AAC is on sale, somebody is trying to get shed em............

I can't follow. Can you please explain in another way what you mean?

[armarsh]

About every place you look the .300 AAC is on sale, somebody is trying to get shed em............

If you mean that vendors are discounting 300BLK to get rid of stock, you could not be more wrong. They can't build them fast enough and if anything are raising prices a little to lower demand.

[justice06rr]

I'm not an expert in the area of SAAMI or ammo trends per se but I would predict that in 5 years we'll look back at the 300 Blackout as a failed experiment by a private conglomerate to create a new and popular ammo standard.

..

None of this has anything to do with relative merits of the round(s) themselves.
Just a bit of crystal ball gazing, but I've seen this movie before.

Wow really? ROFL. You just contradicted yourself there.

Why don't you give us the winning powerball numbers and the next big market stock too?

Everyone and their little brother has an AR15. That is the biggest asset of the 300Black. Buy a barrel and you're set. They can hadly keep barrels in stock, but they are around if you know where to look. The ammo arguement at Walmart is even more ridiculous. Half of people I know don't even like walmart.

[Certaindeaf]

We just need some 200gr depleted uranium .223 ammo. Pretty easy "fix" is how I see it.

[SilentStalker]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I am not sure what the hype is about this round. I am not sure why you want one unless you are strictly looking for suppressor use because I believe it falls off quite quickly after 200 yards or so unless I am mistaken. So, if thst is true why would you want it? Granted a huge number of people cannot really shoot well outside of that range anyways so I guess I could argue that point in which case it would not really matter at thst point. If you can't hit outside of 200 yelards then most rifle ammo would suite you just fine.

[rsilvers]

Someone correct me if I am wrong but I am not sure what the hype is about this round. I am not sure why you want one unless you are strictly looking for suppressor use because I believe it falls off quite quickly after 200 yards or so unless I am mistaken. So, if thst is true why would you want it? Granted a huge number of people cannot really shoot well outside of that range anyways so I guess I could argue that point in which case it would not really matter at thst point. If you can't hit outside of 200 yelards then most rifle ammo would suite you just fine.

Because it has 30 round capacity in a normal AR magazine and is the most powerful way to do that with 30 caliber in an AR15.

It has a 440 meter range from a 9 inch barrel, going by the same standards that the Army uses for the max range of the M4.

This photo is the results at 300 yards from a 9 inch barrel. The bullet made a 0.50 - 0.60 diameter hole 20 inches deep in 10% ballistic gel.

http://militarytimes.com/blogs/gearscout/files/2012/01/300BLK-300-small.jpg


http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/barnes-centerfire-rifle-ammunition-bb300aac1-blackout-2400-rdbx-p-130573.html


Also, it has low-cost practice ammo:

http://www.ableammo.com/catalog/remington-rifle-ammunition-l300aac2-blackout-close-flat-base-rdbx-p-130622.html

And you can load your own from modified 223 cases you pick up for free off the ground at the range.

[68wj]

If I had to shoot 7.62x39 class ammunition from an AR type platform, between the RRA listed in this thread and an AR chambered in 300 BO, I would take the BO. Then I am reminded I don't have to use either and can move on happily. :D

[Elkins45]

I bought a 300 Blackout barrel so I can economically shoot cast bullets out of my AR without having to buy a new bolt, mags, etc. Brass is dirt cheap cuz it can be made from 5.56 surplus. I already have 30 cal molds and a bunch of 5.56 brass so a barrel and dies were all I needed.

So far I've had a lot of fun with it....that's reason enough for me!

[rjrivero]

I bought a 300 Blackout barrel so I can economically shoot cast bullets out of my AR without having to buy a new bolt, mags, etc. Brass is dirt cheap cuz it can be made from 5.56 surplus. I already have 30 cal molds and a bunch of 5.56 brass so a barrel and dies were all I needed.

The cost of 30 cal bullets got me into casting for this round as well. I forked over the $$ for the NOE 247gr boolit and haven't looked back. What a hoot of a round through a liberty Mystic!! Just fantastic fun!

[ac6916170]

RSilvers you might want to point out that those were over pressure loads and not factory loads. Deny if you want, you admitted it on m4net and 68forum.com

[Texas Ranger]

About every place you look the .300 AAC is on sale, somebody is trying to get shed em............
Not really sure what you where trying to say in your post, but it has been my experience over the last couple of weeks of looking, that 300 AAC BLK uppers or complete firearms have been pretty hard to find. :banghead: Out of curiosity, I just did an experiment..... Googled 300 AAC BLK to find available guns and uppers for sale. Here's what I found:

Of the 16 vendors that came back in the search, 13 were SOLD OUT/TEMPORARILY OUT OF STOCK/BACKORDERED. Only 3 had uppers in their current inventory.

I also checked several major websites where you can buy firearms from either dealers or private individuals including Gunbroker, GunsAmerica, Armslist, and BudsGunShop. A total of 2 uppers and 1 barrel are currently available from 2 FFL Dealers. No private individuals offering anything in 300 AAC BLK.

I also checked the classified section of this website - Nada. Zero 300 AAC BLK firearms/uppers available.

I also went to the San Antonio Gun Show this weekend (the really BIG one at AT&T Center.... about 800 tables of goodies). Only found 2 Uppers in 300 AAC BLK (one new in box CMMG 16" and one NIB AAC 16" in new 1:7 twist.... I bought the AAC :)). All other Tactical dealers were sold out and had them back ordered.

I haven't been able to find any private individuals offering 300 AAC BLK firearms or uppers for sale anywhere on the internet. Not sayin they aren't out there..... just that I can't find them. Conclusion: Doesn't look like the marketplace is flooded with unwanted 300 AAC BLK toys. In fact looks like just the opposite. They appear to be in extremely high demand and week to week somewhat difficult to find, depending on flow of product from manufacturers.

[savage1r]

For those of you saying the 7.62x39 doesn't have a wide range of bullets or can't shoot subsonic, I beg to differ. Here are some bullet options http://www.montanabulletworks.com/303_British_Rifle.html
And the discussions about loading them: http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=13453

[HOOSIER70]

Dang now I want yet another rifle, Well Christmas is a few mnths away

[dubbleA]

For those of you saying the 7.62x39 doesn't have a wide range of bullets or can't shoot subsonic, I beg to differ. Here are some bullet options http://www.montanabulletworks.com/30...ish_Rifle.html


It might just be me but I certainly wouldnt call a few .311"cast bullets a "wide range" for the 7.62x39.:confused:


.308" bullets are truly available in a "wide range".
300 BO 240gr Sierra MK Goodness!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f268/dubbleA/240SMK300BLK2.jpg

You might run into problems shooting those heavy for caliber bullets in russian subsonics as they need to be twisted up. The blackouts from the ground up are purposely fast twisted for this reason.

[savage1r]

Well, I'll be producing a video on it with the results good or bad.

[SabbathWolf]

The 300 blackout gives 7.62 x 39 ballistics from a standard AR. It is a way around the problem of feeding a tapered 7.62 x 39 case through the straight section of the magazine well of an AR that was not designed for curved magazines. The problem with the 300 Blackout is that you almost have to reload for it. The 7.62 x 39 is designed to work with the curved AK 47 magazine. Rock River has solved the problem by designing an AR chambered in 7.62 x 39 that takes standard curved AK magazines.

See for yourself:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=558

You can get 7.62 x 39 rounds ANYWHERE that sells ammunition.
Try getting .300 Blackout at Wall-Mart.

Personally, I think the whole thing is silly anyways.
If you want 7.62x39 ballistics, then just get an SKS or an AK.
The AK is more dependable anyways.

[B!ngo]

I'll take that bet. How about a "cold drink" to the winner?
You bet. It's a deal. Let's mark our calendars. We don't need that accurate a metric. Any excuse for a cold drink with another THR'er is fine with me.
B

[lloveless]

I don't have an AR platform gun. I do own a .308, I do have a.223 Handi Rifle. Why would anyone want a 9 inch barreled rifle? The case for the .300 BO being a reloaders cartridge by making their own casings from .223 cases is intriguing, and probably the only reason I'd have to buy one. Nah, I am already covered. If I want an black rifle I'll get somethng like a Ruger mini-14.
ll

[dubbleA]

Why would anyone want a 9 inch barreled rifle?



The 9" barrel is pretty much optimum with running subsonics in 300 Blk Out. It gives up very little to the 12 and 16 inch versions,that's the beauty of it.

With the suppressor attached it's quiet and offers alot of firepower all in a nice compact package, t's shorter than the average rifle. Not going to be for everybody but it suits my needs to a tee. Consider it a 30-30 win with a 30 round capacity that sounds like a 22.

[Walkalong]

Any excuse for a cold drink with another THR'er is fine with me.
BYep, either way will be fine. :)

[JustinJ]

I'm hoping the 6.5 mpc takes off. I see it as a far more versatile round with greater range and accuracy potential.

[Girodin]

I have been eying the 300 BLK for a while now. I think it meets its design requirements rather well. It has also impressively gained pretty wide acceptance rather quickly. I imagine this is due to the very serious marketing push it has gotten.

However, I’m not sure that it does anything that warrants me buying it.
In its supersonic loadings I don’t find it appealing because of its limited range vis a vis say 6.8 SPC II without offering any significant advantage inside 200 yards. If I needed more power inside of 200, it seems to me it would probably warrant getting out one of my 308s not the 300 BLK.

I think it is more interesting in subsonic loads. However, I find myself wondering if it is really a better choice for me to shoot subsonic than 9x19. I realize the BLK fires a rifle bullet with a higher sectional density and higher B.C. I understand that it should have better range than the 9mm. However, one I’m not sure that for me that slight advantage is very significant, and less sure that it offsets the advantages of the 9mm.

Moreover, I am yet to see a gel test (or even read a report) of a sub sonic BLK cartridge (and the whisper before it) with anything other than horrible terminal ballistics. Everyone I have seen has been a bullet poking a straight hole, no yawing, no expansion, no fragmentation. Even the soft nose bullets have shown no expansion. The heavy bullets used in subsonic loads simply were not designed with the very low velocities of a subsonic load in mind. A 147 grain 9x19 on the other hand will expand and seems to offer better subsonic terminal ballistics based on what I’ve seen. Of course new bullets could be designed to offer better terminal ballistics at subsonic velocities, but to the best of my knowledge, that has not happened yet. If and when it does, I may give the 300 a harder look.

If one is not shooting anything where terminal ballistics matter, but rather, one is just enjoying some subsonic range time, the 9x19 subsonics seem to be more economical.
In sum, I do not hate the 300 blk, I just don’t have a real use for it at this point. As a supersonic cartridge there are, for my purposes, better options. As a sub sonic cartridge I don’t see it’s limited advantages making it worth moving away from 9x19, particularly given the very poor terminal ballistics I’ve seen.

[ny32182]

The market has had 50 years to cram a x39 into an AR15; if it was going to be done well it would have been done long ago.

.300blk has already far surpassed any other niche AR15 cartridge for a litany of reasons already mentioned in this thread. Primarly because none of the major components of the system are proprietary, other than the actual barrel.

No reason to wait 5 years, it is probably already the second most popular AR15 catridge. 5 years from now it will only be more established as such.

[Walkalong]

If you look at Midway under .30 cal bullets of 140 and under, and choose to list them in order of popularity, the number one bullet is the 110 Gr Barnes Tipped TAC-TX, which is designed for the .300 Blackout/.300 Whisper.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=15519

[savage1r]

Actually, if you think about it, is there another 230gr bullet that goes subsonic? Yup. Can it be offered in a platform that can be easily silenced in a sbr/carbine? Yup. Cheaper, more fun solution would be to get a Masterpiece Arms MAC 10 and shoot cast reloads for pennies instead of 300BO premiums.

[kwelz]

You can't compare a .45 pistol round to a .30 caliber rifle round. The ballistics are far different. The .30 cal rifle round gives you a huge ballistic advantage, far more loading options, and can be used at longer ranges in all weights.

[68wj]

If you look at Midway under .30 cal bullets of 140 and under, and choose to list them in order of popularity, the number one bullet is the 110 Gr Barnes Tipped TAC-TX, which is designed for the .300 Blackout/.300 Whisper.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=15519
Is that popularity based on sales or web hits?

I see a lot of BO bullets and ammo high on the popularity lists, but often sold out with long lead times so it isn't likely they are actually selling more than the others. It isn't too far of a stretch though since BO shooters are higher volume than a turnbolt shooter.

I also see Midway's BO ammo constantly linked in forums, sometimes without provocation, thus driving traffic to the site. I have been accused of being skeptical, but I also know a little about web analytics.

[rsilvers]

RSilvers you might want to point out that those were over pressure loads and not factory loads. Deny if you want, you admitted it on m4net and 68forum.com

This is absolutely false. This was standard factory ammo loaded below 55,000 psi. It is also false that I "admitted it" on 68forum and M4carbine.net. I am 100% certain that it was standard ammo, and I am 100% certain I never said otherwise.

[rsilvers]

If you look at Midway under .30 cal bullets of 140 and under, and choose to list them in order of popularity, the number one bullet is the 110 Gr Barnes Tipped TAC-TX, which is designed for the .300 Blackout/.300 Whisper.

http://www.midwayusa.com/find?&newcategorydimensionid=15519

Same with the UMC 300 BLK ammo:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=388027971243664&set=a.239137419466054.56666.203519439694519&type=1&theater

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/547535/remington-umc-ammunition-300-aac-blackout-762x35mm-115-grain-full-metal-jacket-box-of-20

[ac6916170]

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?28596-Interesting-Read-Comments/page11 Post 105. Again deny if you want. How about when you said a 110 6.8 vs 110 bo the 6.8 has a 12% advantage which in your own words is "significant" Did you NOT say this also?

[rsilvers]

http://68forums.com/forums/showthread.php?28596-Interesting-Read-Comments/page11 Post 105. Again deny if you want. How about when you said a 110 6.8 vs 110 bo the 6.8 has a 12% advantage which in your own words is "significant" Did you NOT say this also?

He was asking about this test which was done before the factory load was out in order to establish what the max recommended velocity was:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96366

That has nothing to do with the 300 yard factory-ammo test.

[68wj]

He was asking about this test which was done before the factory load was out in order to establish what the max recommended velocity was:

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=96366

That has nothing to do with the 300 yard factory-ammo test.
Any misunderstanding may be legitimate. In that m4carbine thread are gel results (photo and data) in which we later learn from the 68forum discussion that impact velocity was greater than SAAMI allowable pressures to achieve at the muzzle. For the purpose of pushing the limits of the bullet and finding the maximum performance velocity this is great. However, that piece of information was initially left out and the post shortly afterward showed the much vaulted Vortex pic with no data.

One could easily believe that these were from the same test and that the first picture is expected real-world performance. If what is said now is true, that may be an erroneous assumption, either from smoke and mirrors or muddy water.

[rsilvers]

Let me clarify - 2400 fps at 55,000 psi is well established as normal for 300 BLK. It has been tested many times in SAAMI pressure barrels. Even Barnes reloading data shows 2415 fps as a max load:

http://www.barnesbullets.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/300-AAC-Blackout-110gr-TAC-TX.pdf

That test was at 2411 fps. Why did I call it "over pressure?" I really should not have. I think I was being overly technical to call 2411 fps over pressure because I understood 2400 fps to be the normal velocity for max pressure. 11 fps is not really anything.

What I meant to say was that on that day, over-pressure loads were being used to establish at what point the bullet was being driven too fast for the petals to remain on. The goal was to design the bullet so that just over the normal attainable velocity, they would break off, so that one would have as much bullet function as possible at the low-velocity end (down to 1300 fps, for example). This is why the bullet works so well at 300 yards.

I should have said they were at max pressure. To be even more clear, the 300 yard test was done well after that initial experiment and was using standard factory ammo. Barnes loads their 300 BLK ammunition to not exceed 55,000 psi.

[ac6916170]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. If an autha had a flat tail ita been a beava. You seem to like leaving out tiny little bits of info because those tiny little things just screw the hell out of what you preach. Of coarse this is just my opinion. Formed after watching you back peddle and change details when called out on voodoo math on many forums. The 300 is a viable round on it's own merit so just stop fudging numbers and test to make it more than what it is. You have run off MANY potential buyers by your smoke and mirrors. Have a nice sunny day.

[ny32182]

Does anyone have a link to a good discussion about 1:7 vs. 1:8 for this round?

[rsilvers]

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. If an autha had a flat tail ita been a beava. You seem to like leaving out tiny little bits of info because those tiny little things just screw the hell out of what you preach. Of coarse this is just my opinion. Formed after watching you back peddle and change details when called out on voodoo math on many forums. The 300 is a viable round on it's own merit so just stop fudging numbers and test to make it more than what it is. You have run off MANY potential buyers by your smoke and mirrors. Have a nice sunny day.

This should be clear - the only bullet I said that was fired over-pressure was a different and earlier test (before the factory load was established) specifically to determine if the bullet construction was optimal.

Also, I only said it was over-pressure because it was 11 fps faster than 2400 fps. Barnes max load is published at 2415 fps, so it is really unusual that you are trying to make this seem like an issue when in hindsight, even that early test was not over-pressure.

I have not fudged numbers, and this one example where you thought you caught me turned out to not be the case.

[R.W.Dale]

I think 300 BO has qualities to sell itself despite its being on the low end of power for intermediate rifle rounds.

In essence and a great way to describe the 300BO is that its a 357magnum that works great in an AR15 and fires bullets of exceptional aerodynamic efficiency.

This is not a bad place to be and IMO drawing comparisons to clearly more powerful rounds with fudged numbers and lopsided comparisons only hurts the 300's potential for growth. SELL IT FOR WHAT IT IS and not for what it isn't.

[fpgt72]

I am always leary when a new cartridge comes on the market...I never jump in right away.

Will it go away...doubt it, but it might end up like the 327, or 220 swift...to give a new and older example.

They are still out there but they are not super popular....they have their small market.

To me I think the bottom line to this is the AR group wants to shoot something a little bigger then a 22 and this gives them that with little changes to their existing equipment. I don't think the guns linked will replace it just on cost alone.

It is all part of the fun in being in the gun hobby, it keeps everything new and fresh....only time will tell if the 300 will be the next best thing.

[Girodin]

You can't compare a .45 pistol round to a .30 caliber rifle round. The ballistics are far different. The .30 cal rifle round gives you a huge ballistic advantage, far more loading options, and can be used at longer ranges in all weights.

Actually it is pretty easy to compare them. You punch the numbers in to readily available software and it give a pretty good bases for comparison. If one is talking about supersonic loads yes the 300 BLK is notably more powerful, has more practical range, and better terminal ballistics.

The post to which you responded was comparing sub sonic loads. That is a very valid comparison.


With a 220 SMK bullet with a very favorable .629 BC fired at 1050 FPS it will drop 16.73” at 100 yards and 66.93 by 200 and 152.24 by 300. At 200 yards it has 483 ft/lbs of energy. It should also be noted that the SMK most likely will simply punch a 30 caliber hole and offer pretty horrible terminal ballistics.

A 230 grain Gold dot 45 caliber bullet with a .143 BC, fired at the same muzzle velocity, drops 17.94” at 100 yards 76.16” at 200 and 182.6 at 300. It has 366 Ft/lbs of energy at 200 yards. Importantly, for anything other than punching paper, that gold dot is going to offer vastly better terminal ballistics.

This is a little simplified and there is more we could look at; I encourage you to crunch the numbers yourself. However, when comparing sub sonic loads what I see is that out to 100 yards the trajectories are close enough that it doesn't really matter. However, the .45 would have much better terminal ballistics and components to load the 45 are cheaper.

By 200 yards the advantage of the high BC bullet is showing its self in trajectory. However, there has still been a ton of drop and a lot of drift. If one can correct for 67” of drop (33" lower impact w/ 100 yard zero), is correcting for 76” of drop ( aprox 40" lower impact with 100 yard zero) instead really a huge deal. There is more drift and thus errors in reading wind are likely to be more pronounced. The 300 BLK would be carrying more energy but the terminal ballistics, are with all likelihood, much worse than the .45’s.


This is why I fail to see the big advantage of the 300 BLK for subsonic shooting against anything more than paper (although maybe there is something I am failing to account for, if so hopefully someone will educate me). The comparison is easy enough to do, and out to distances that one is likely to shoot subsonic rounds (say 150 yards), there is not a huge trajectory advantage and the .45 has better terminal ballistics. Inside of 100 yards I see the 300 blk as having no advantage and yet costing more, and having very poor terminal ballistics.

Again if 220 grain 30 cal bullets that offered both a high BC and good terminal ballistics at sub sonic velocities were available the discussion might be slightly different.

[R.W.Dale]

Gridiron one factor in favor of 30 caliber vs 45 caliber is the accuracy potential of the bullets themselves.

I've ran into this with a custom 45win mag (not 458) Stevens 200 bolt gun. Even a match pistol bullet isn't manufactured to the degrees of consistentcy to shoot the kind of groupings a match rifle bullet is capable of. In my experience with a custom barreled bolt gun if you can get a repeatable 3" at 100 from 45 caliber handgun bullets you're well well ahead of the curve

The higher BC not only contributes to a flatter trajectory but also is less affected by atmospheric variables

[Girodin]

That is a factor I did not consider. If sub sonic, semi-auto, bench shooting, for groups with an AR is the order of the day then the 300 likely would be superior. I do wonder if the accuracy difference it going to amount to a practical difference in accuracy shooting inside 150 yard, and more like 100 yards, with a 4 MOA Aimpoint, and from field positions?

[Saakee]

if going for accuracy, is there a reason to use subsonic versus supersonic loadings?

[ac6916170]

I have not fudged numbers, and this one example where you thought you caught me turned out to not be the case.
__________________
This one statement speaks volumes about how you present facts.:)

[rsilvers]

$10.36 per box for the 300 BLK ammo:

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2AACO102860-1.html

[68wj]

That is a loosing argument for this thread. Same site has 7.62x39 starting at $4.57. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=606

[R.W.Dale]

That is a loosing argument for this thread. Same site has 7.62x39 starting at $4.57. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ItemListing.aspx?sort=priceLow&catid=606

Apples to pomegranate


The same 7.62x39 ammunition as the 300blk listed above from the same source

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/66826-5.html

$15 a box.

I'm not one of those people :D but lots of folks aren't overly concerned with shooting the absolute cheapest ammunition that'll go bang and send a bullet somewhere in the general vicinity of downrange.

In the real world 10 mcchickens for a box of reloadable rifle ammunition is certainly cheap enough. And is in fact as cheap as 223 cheaper than 30-30/7.62x39 and far far cheaper than your usernames ironic namesake 6.8spc.

And again best of all a person only needs a barrel to be rocking n rolling 300blk style.

[rsilvers]

Still, it is about 55% cheaper than 6.8.

What is the cheapest USA made brass-cased 7.62x39mm ammunition?

[hentown]

One of the selling points of the Blackout is that you can use it through a standard AR, using a standard AR BCG, with only a barrel change. If I were shooting suppressed, or if I hunted deer with an AR, I'd go with the .300 Blackout. There are several ammo companies that manufacture .300 Blackout, so I'd buy it in bulk...IF I weren't a reloader. I do reload, so the .300 Blackout's relative obscurity in retail establishments would be irrelevant to me.

[68wj]

Apples to pomegranate


The same 7.62x39 ammunition as the 300blk listed above from the same source

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/66826-5.html

$15 a box.

I'm not one of those people :D but lots of folks aren't overly concerned with shooting the absolute cheapest ammunition that'll go bang and send a bullet somewhere in the general vicinity of downrange.

In the real world 10 mcchickens for a box of reloadable rifle ammunition is certainly cheap enough. And is in fact as cheap as 223 cheaper than 30-30/7.62x39 and far far cheaper than your usernames ironic namesake 6.8spc.

And again best of all a person only needs a barrel to be rocking n rolling 300blk style.
Pomegranates if you say so, but his post was just stating how low the BO ammo is, not any particular style. The link he provided was for range loads, of which cheap is the name of the game. Loaders should take the brass value into account, but not everyone loads. After the linked load, the price comes up and isn't way, way cheaper than even the 6.8 SPC you named. Same site: Hornady 6.8 SST loads for 18.69 http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/60315178-1.html

Remington subsonics for 17.77 or hunting ammo for 25.30.

The Barnes Vortex that is always posted is 28.22 and the 6.8 TSX loaded by SSA is 27.13.

[68wj]

Still, it is about 55% cheaper than 6.8.

What is the cheapest USA made brass-cased 7.62x39mm ammunition?
If that was directed at me, this thread has NOTHING to do with 6.8. Not sure why it even came up. "Why all the hate for" 6.8?:D

[rsilvers]

While I do reload some cartridges, I don't reload 223/5.56mm or 9mm, and I have always put my brass into the brass can at the range, and I don't think I have ever bought steel-cased 223.

Some of us just don't use steel-cased ammo.

But agreed - the availability of cheap steel-cased ammo for 7.62x39mm is very significant for the market in general.

I look forward to when 300 AAC Blackout is $5 a box. I will give it two years.

[R.W.Dale]

The saavy shooter even if he doesn't reload doesn't discard his rifle brass. Not when he can cart it home and sell it for 30/50% of what he bought the ammunition for here in the classifieds

[rsilvers]

Yeah, I should have saved it all. I would not have sold it, but I could stockpile it.

[jmt1271]

LOL.

I am getting a 300blk due to its versatility and it looks damn fun!

[benzy2]

I don't get the desire for a 7.62x39 AR. I don't understand the reasoning of spending $1,500 to shoot the most inaccurate steel cased ammo you can find. If you just want to blast away (which there's nothing wrong doing so) then a number of AK variants are already proven great to do so.

To me, from a civilian point, the AR is a good platform to because of it's interchangeability as well as it's ability to be an accurate platform with little effort. Using a proprietary upper, lower, and bolt kills interchangeability and 7.62x39 ammo available today is typically bargain basement junk good for blasting and little more. So why buy this rifle?

I'm not a huge fan of many of the caliber conversions for the AR. The .300 blackout was one I didn't jump for joy over when announced. It though has grown a bit on me for multiple reasons, most of which hinge around availability of common parts to the .223/5.56 models. Being only a barrel change away really does make the round versatile to people who already own an AR.

The only other round I really like is a total reloader only option and that's the 6.5 AR Turbo. Seems like a heck of a lot of round out of an AR platform. Fired a neighbor's rifle in it and it was a great shooter.

[MistWolf]

Really, the RRA 7.62x39 is all about blasting with cheap ammo. Cheap ammo has sold people on some of the least desirable firearms I have seen, the Mosin Nagant which is one of the most awkward rifles to shoot with the worst ergonomics and is so difficult to operate, is a prime example. Yet, because the ammo is so cheap (as is the rifle), it has some of the most rabid of fanbois. Look at the popularity of HiPoints. Never underestimate the shooting public's ability to embrace and fall in love with "cheap".

The retail price of the basic LAR-47 is $1200. I don't know where some of you boys are getting AKs for $400 (1/3 the price) but in my neck of the woods WASRs are going for $600 and since they are Angry Beaver Builds from Century, I'd rather pony up the extra $200-$300 or so for an Arsenal at the LGS that's known to be on the high side.

The real attraction of the 300 BLK is that it's a 30-30 Lite in a fast handling modern carbine with a 30 round detachable box magazine and mounts good optics. With .308 bullets designed specifically to give best expansion for the velocities the cartridge develops, that makes it a clear winner for whitetail and hog hunters. For the first time, I want a carbine chambered for a round that makes 30-30 ballistics. If the 300 BLK does fail, it will be in large part due to the fact the 30-30 proved to be too tough to knock from it's throne

[M1key]

It's also about FUN. As in AR is more funner than AK. Did I mention accurate?

Here is my Colt...

M

[B!ngo]

Wow really? ROFL. You just contradicted yourself there.

Why don't you give us the winning powerball numbers and the next big market stock too?

Everyone and their little brother has an AR15. That is the biggest asset of the 300Black. Buy a barrel and you're set. They can hadly keep barrels in stock, but they are around if you know where to look. The ammo arguement at Walmart is even more ridiculous. Half of people I know don't even like walmart.
How is it that I contradicted myself?
Just going out on a limb and making an informed prediction based on previous trends and outcomes in the firearms industry and other industries that behave and track in similar ways.
If you disagree, tell us why. When you get yourself up off the the floor that is. :)
B

[cfullgraf]

Another point of view.

When I got into WWII vintage 30 Carbines, I thought they would make a nifty home defense rifle. But, I did not want to use the vintage rifles and the current manufactured 30 Carbine clones do not have the best reputation for reliability.

I am very familiar with the AR platform so I looked at the various options, including buying a 223 Rem M4gery for the home defense purpose.

The 300 Blk fit the bill quite well. It has a bit better ballistics than the 30 Carbine, better knock down than the 223 Remington, a familiar platform that does not require special magazines, does not require special parts except the barrel, and factory ammunition is available.

While there are cartridges with better ballistics, in my opinion, each has its disadvantages for my purposes.

If it had not been for AAC's efforts to standardize the 300 Blk cartridge, I would not have considered it and probably would still be looking.

I will admit if supply does not catch up with demand, it can be a serious negative in the longevity of the 300 Blk cartridge. I reload and have acquired case forming equipment so my bets are hedged.

[ZombieHorde]

No, the 300 Blackout's claim to fame are the following:

1) Only ONE part needed to swap from 5.56 to 300 Blackout (barrel) standard mags even work
2) The ability to shoot supersonic (110-130 gr) and subsonic (220+ gr) with only a mag change

As you can see, this solves none of those problems. Now if you wanted a cheap 30 cal AR-15 blaster, then yes it solves that problem. I will still continue reloading for my 300 blackout :)

[Girodin]

I don't understand the reasoning of spending $1,500 to shoot the most inaccurate steel cased ammo you can find.

Let's ignore for the moment that one could want it for more than just that. Instead I'd like to focus in on the idea of accuracy. I shoot a lot of wolf ammo .223 ammo through my Noveske, an AR that most people would recognize as being capable of decent accuracy. If I am shooting from field positions with my T1 4 moa dot aimpoint I am not going to see much difference between the wolf and my own hand loads let alone the cheapest brass cased ammo I can find. For most of the shooting I do (training and drills) with an AR the cheapest steel case stuff I can find works just fine. The 7.62x39 ammo I shoot out of the various guns I have chambered for that cartridge also give adequate accuracy for those purposes. I wouldn't use the steel case for precision shooting, but that is not what the RRA is intended for nor the type of shooting most people do. Steel cased x39 easily gives acceptable accuracy for COM shots or shots on game out to 200 yards.

I don't see myself buying the RRA but I certainly would not be so dismissive of its usefulness or versatility.

As you can see, this solves none of those problems.

One can shoot super sonic and subsonic 7.62x39 in those ranges. One issue with it in AKs is that it does not always cycle the action. I have no clue if it would with the RRA.

I certainly agree that the RRA is not going to fit the needs/desires of many people who are looking at the 300 BLK.

[Walkalong]

As to the OP's question, will the .300 Blackout become obsolete? I doubt it. It has too many things going for it. Plenty of factory ammo being made. Plenty of which is attractively priced. Recognized by SAMMI. Lots of bullet choices in several weights. Capable of Sub Sonic performance. Nothing needed except a new barrel and barrel device. Use the same mags, same lowers, same bolt/bolt carrier, etc. Brass is cheap enough, even if you buy it already made form .223 cases, even better if you make them yourself.

Anything else?

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=166777&d=1340414127

[mberoose]

Huh? Blackout?

Oh. "AR guy" stuff. Meh.

[NG VI]

better knock down than the 223 Remington,


No metal object weighing one hundred ten seven thousandths of a pound is going to knock a grown human down at any attainable speed.

that's 110/7000ths of one pound.

[tahunua001]

this is interesting. unfortunately of the AR wildcat rounds, 300 blackout is the best established and is more than likely here to stay. it isn't going to be mainstream any time in the near future but it is going to limp on for the next 5 years at least(unless theres another gun ban). the 300 BLK does offer better ballistics than 300 whisper, 300 fireball, 7.62x39 and 7.62x40. I like the RRAs ability to use standard AK mags but if I really wanted a specialty caliber(besides the 9mm I already have) I would just get a 243 barrel for it and start loading 6x45MM. it would propel a 100gr projectile at velocities far superior to 300 blackout with greater accuracy over greater range than both 300 blk and 7.62x39 and would be still be legal in all 50 states for deer hunting. couple that with the BLKs ability to use standard AR mags, buffers and bolt carrier groups and you have a gun that's easy to find replacement parts for should it break or need upgrading. blk meets a lot of of those criteria but not all. I have no idea where I was going with that rant but I think I started out trying to say that the LAR47 is probably the best version of a 7.62x39 AR that I've seen thus far but it's not going to phase 300 BLK sales in the least and neither fact makes me want to go out and buy an AR chambered for either round.

[viper7342]

You use availability at WalMart to gauge your acceptance of a cartridge?

If I did this, I wouldn't have bought anything in 5.56/223 either, as my local China/Wal Mart has been out of it for sometime and can't tell me when it will be back in stock. Thank goodness I reload and have been able to find new primed LC brass for $11.00 a hundred!

[kimberkid]

I've got an AR in x39' which I've had since long befor the 300 was even heard of ... The only thing you need to shoot it reliably in an AR is the right mag. I've had several "franken-mags that worked fine and more recently C Products made a good one.

Here's a couple targets I shot at 100yds with some wolf ... I built this with a Model 1 sales kit for less than $700

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/kimberkid/Toys/PC020011.jpg

Or if you warn a modern rifle designed for the x39, look at the SiG-556R ...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v40/kimberkid/Toys/P3300110.jpg

[meanmrmustard]

The 300 blackout gives 7.62 x 39 ballistics from a standard AR. It is a way around the problem of feeding a tapered 7.62 x 39 case through the straight section of the magazine well of an AR that was not designed for curved magazines. The problem with the 300 Blackout is that you almost have to reload for it. The 7.62 x 39 is designed to work with the curved AK 47 magazine. Rock River has solved the problem by designing an AR chambered in 7.62 x 39 that takes standard curved AK magazines.

See for yourself:
http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=558

You can get 7.62 x 39 rounds ANYWHERE that sells ammunition.
Try getting .300 Blackout at Wall-Mart.
300 AAC fills a niche with its subsonic ammo paired with a suppressor. True, AK ammo is very cheap (and not going away anytime soon), but methinks it's the lack of BOOM that'll keep the 300 At least available.

[meanmrmustard]

It's also about FUN. As in AR is more funner than AK. Did I mention accurate?

Here is my Colt...

M
Delusions, sir, delusions....and poor grammar.

I'll stick with what Stoner and Kalishnakov had in mind. As for folks bantering about the AR being the most popular rifle...maybe, but not most wide spread. I'd wager there's several AKs for every one AR/M4, M16 out there.

I have no interest in the Blackout, if I wanna blow **** up, I use an AK. End of story.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I'll stick with what Stoner and Kalishnakov had in mind. As for folks bantering about the AR being the most popular rifle...maybe, but not most wide spread. I'd wager there's several AKs for every one AR/M4, M16 out there.


I've seen far more AR 15s at the range, gunshops and in people's collections than any variant of the AK here in the US. Yes there are more AKs outside of the US but the focus here is the United States.

[M1key]

Delusions, sir, delusions....and poor grammar.

I'll stick with what Stoner and Kalishnakov had in mind. As for folks bantering about the AR being the most popular rifle...maybe, but not most wide spread. I'd wager there's several AKs for every one AR/M4, M16 out there.

I have no interest in the Blackout, if I wanna blow **** up, I use an AK. End of story.
Got a passel of them, too. None of them shoot like that Colt.

Point is, ARs are much easier to adapt a new cartridge without extensive gunsmith work.

And who the flip cares anyhow? It's all about enjoying our gun rights and options...

M

[meanmrmustard]

I've seen far more AR 15s at the range, gunshops and in people's collections than any variant of the AK here in the US. Yes there are more AKs outside of the US but the focus here is the United States.
Then you ain't been around much kiddo.

[meanmrmustard]

Got a passel of them, too. None of them shoot like that Colt.

Point is, ARs are much easier to adapt a new cartridge without extensive gunsmith work.

And who the flip cares anyhow? It's all about enjoying our gun rights and options...

M
Absolutely true. But, like I said, I just stick with 556 and 762. That's just me though.

I agree with some though, the Blackout isn't going anywhere.

[theCan]

Yep, been saying it for a while, 7.62x39 will trump the 300. I knew it was a matter or time before someone perfects an AK/AR rifle. If the 300 offered something over the x39 it would still have a place, but with no increase in power, trajectory, ballistcs....etc the cheaper established surplus cambering will emerge the clear winner.

The 300 blackout has a lot to offer over cheap surplus 7.62x39
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-Q7EsIPGY8

[NG VI]

the 300 BLK does offer better ballistics than 300 whisper, 300 fireball, 7.62x39 and 7.62x40.


they are the same

The 7.62x40 is the same concept as the .300BLK/Whisper, only optimized for the lighter supersonic loads. It's the .300 Blackout if it were designed for people who don't care about suppressors. I'm quite sure the .300 BLK can't beat the 7.62x40 with the same bullets loaded the way the cartridges were designed. It's the only reason the 7.62x40 exists, to be a better option for people who aren't going to buy a suppressor and would rather have a slightly more capable rifle cartridge.

[68wj]

Then you ain't been around me much kiddo.

Fixed it for you, sport.:rolleyes:

[meanmrmustard]

Fixed it for you, sport.:rolleyes:
Hmmm...how cute. Delusion seems to be viral. ;)

[68wj]

Hmmm...how cute. Delusion seems to be viral. ;)
Nope, just pointing out that his comment about not seeing as many AK's as AR's in his area was just as valid/invalid as yours. What was cute was the assumption that he is inexperienced because of it.

[meanmrmustard]

Nope, just pointing out that his comment about not seeing as many AK's as AR's in his area was just as valid/invalid as yours. What was cute was the assumption that he is inexperienced because of it.
An assumption of an assumption, as I don't recall outwardly name calling, but folks are only apt to see what they want. My range in central MO, more AKs than ARs. South Texas? Seen alot of Saigas in .308. Subjective statements like "ARs are the most popular rifle in the US" are assumptions, or more importantly, a very broad opinion. I don't dispute their popularity. That's not the case in this thread, it's caliber formost, then platform.

So, back to OP topic: I don't think the 300 is going bye bye, as it fills a niche people like having.

[Walkalong]

All right guys, lets chill out and keep this interesting thread going, instead of ya ya'ing back and forth about AK vs AR. :)

[meanmrmustard]

All right guys, lets chill out and keep this interesting thread going, instead of ya ya'ing back and forth about AK vs AR. :)
Apologies. Point I was trying to make. Said what I needed to, so I'm out.

[benzy2]

Let's ignore for the moment that one could want it for more than just that. Instead I'd like to focus in on the idea of accuracy. I shoot a lot of wolf ammo .223 ammo through my Noveske, an AR that most people would recognize as being capable of decent accuracy. If I am shooting from field positions with my T1 4 moa dot aimpoint I am not going to see much difference between the wolf and my own hand loads let alone the cheapest brass cased ammo I can find. For most of the shooting I do (training and drills) with an AR the cheapest steel case stuff I can find works just fine. The 7.62x39 ammo I shoot out of the various guns I have chambered for that cartridge also give adequate accuracy for those purposes. I wouldn't use the steel case for precision shooting, but that is not what the RRA is intended for nor the type of shooting most people do. Steel cased x39 easily gives acceptable accuracy for COM shots or shots on game out to 200 yards.

I don't see myself buying the RRA but I certainly would not be so dismissive of its usefulness or versatility.

Out of curiosity, in that same sub-200 yard red dot shooting, would a BCM or Colt, or even PSA performed any different? What benefit did the Noveske show over other popular (and far less expensive) models in that shooting?

When it comes to this rifle in question lets not forget how RRA decides to assemble ARs. They red loctite barrel nuts and castle nuts. They hardly stake (if you could call it that) gas keys. Their triggers have a wide spread reputation of turning from a nice two stage to a mushy long single stage. Heck, just pull up the old chart and see if anything they did ranked as a positive to someone doing anything but target shooting or plinking. They may shoot very accurately, but they are clearly not built to be a hard use <200 yard drill/combat rifle. Expecting this new, proprietary, publicly untested system to do better is a big gamble. I'd rather have a well built $800 AK from a known manufacturer/assembler than to hope on a $1200-$1500 sorta AK/AR mix from a company known to cut most reliability corners, especially if I plan to shoot the cheap ammo.

[oldpapps]

Guys (and gals),
You are missing the point of the original question.

"Will this [http://www.rockriverarms.com/index.c...ategory_id=558] make the 300 Blackout obsolete?"

The .223/5.56 didn't replace the .22RF or .220 Swift or for that matter the .222Rem. The .300 Blackout is not intended to replace the 30.06 or 300 Savage or for that matter the 30-30.

This Rock River configuration is just another option for the AR platform.

Over time each of us matures and our likes and dislikes change. This is inclusive of our views of weapons/calibers/cartridge configurations.

I will most likely never embrace any com-bloc weapon or chambering, it is just personal with me. But, that doesn't translate that I think the stuff is all junk or trash, just those who used them on me and mine.

In time the cream will rise and the chaff will be lost to the wind. But collectors will still seek the most ill conceived and functionally useless. And that is well and should happen. Only time will tell and I'm betting that both versions will be around for a long time, supplementing the standard ARs in .223/5.56.

[Ranb]

Until 1-8 to 1-10 twists become common, there were be little interest in suppressed subsonic AK's. I suppressed my AK and loaded 150 grain subsonic for it. I was not able to make the rifle cycle even with a cut down spring. Accuracy sucked and it was much louder than my suppressed AR. The AK gas vent is rather loud all by itself.

The AR platform has the AK beat everywhere except in price. The people who say the AK can do anything the AR can have probably never tried (successfully) to hit a 6" target from 200 yards with subonic ammo and a suppressor.

Ranb