[xmanpike]

So, I own 4 rifles, 2 shotguns, and 2 semi auto pistols.

I'm ready to buy a revolver but have only shot a handful of them and truly don't know much about them in comparison to other types of firearms.

This gun will not be a CCW. It will probably be in my nightstand for home defense and used for shooting at the ranch. I believe I want something in .357 mag or larger, and I do reload quite a few calibers and will for this pistol as well.

Not sure if I would prefer SA or DA. Leaning toward DA.

Hoping to spend around $600, but if convinced I could probably go to $750 if it was worth it.

Recommendations please!

Mike

[56hawk]

Hard to beat a S&W 686. 357 Magnum with six or seven shots. With a four inch barrel it handles really well and would be great for target shooting and home defense.

You can buy them new for $684:
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/26266/Smith+%26+Wesson+686P+.357+Mag+4%22%2C+7+round

[PabloJ]

For me top pick would be S&W 686-4. The '-4' is very important. Very close second would be Ruger 'Security Six' Stainless.

[highpower]

Any .357 and larger caliber revolver made by a reputable manufacturer will work for what you want. I would recommend a double action over a single action for home defense duties as the double action trigger pull will make it less likely to have an accidental discharge.

I personally would try to find a gun like a Ruger GP100 (new or used) , any K or N frame S&W (try to buy an older one) or a Colt Trooper (out of production, so only available used). If you are going to buy used, be sure to check the potential revolver you may be looking at over carefully.

One thing to note regarding the use of a large caliber weapon inside a house is over penetration. Unless you have no family, do not live in an apartment, and have no close neighbors, a large caliber handgun is not really the best choice for home defense.

Even a 9MM can go through walls and injure or kill a person on the other side. Recently I heard of an incident where a person had a negligent discharge inside his house. The bullet went through the walls of his house and through the outside wall of his neighbors house lodging in an interior wall. While the gun in question was not a handgun (it was a rifle in .223) under the right circumstances, a handgun bullet could do the same.

I live out in the country and don't have to worry about hitting anyone by accident, so I keep my S&W Model 66 (.357) in my nightstand, although sometimes I rotate in a Colt New Service in .45 Colt.

My favorite bedside gun though, is my 1897 Winchester trench gun.

[xmanpike]

What does the 4 mean in 686-4? What's the difference?

[xmanpike]

Any recommendations on barrel length?

[ArchAngelCD]

The -4 is an engineering change designation. As for barrel length, since it will also be for home defense and not just for the range I would go with a 4" barrel.

I'm a big fan of the M686 or even the newly re-released M586 which has a blue finish instead of Stainless. The S&W M686 will also hold it's value.

[SabbathWolf]

In your price range, I picked up this Ruger Blackhawk 357/38spl/9mm convertible for right at $480 including tax and shipping.
I also owned a S&W and GP-100 in the past as well.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/a632c901.jpg

Since this will not be for CCW, and you mention a ranch as well...I don't think barrel length will be a huge factor.
I live on a ranch myself and actually prefer the longer barrel.

The longer barrel gives you a little more velocity and the longer sight radius helps with a little better accuracy too. The added weight absorbs a little more of the recoil and muzzle flip too.
Shorter barrels are better for CCW, but that's about it really.

[xmanpike]

Should I buy new or look for used? Also, what is this I'm seeing regarding no lock?

[SabbathWolf]

Should I buy new or look for used? Also, what is this I'm seeing regarding no lock?

HUH?
What lock are you talking about?
Ya lost me.
Internal gun lock? Door lock? Safe lock?

New or used is up to you.
I buy new just so I'm sure I didn't just inherit someone elses problems....lol

[xmanpike]

I honestly don't know. As I've been looking I see people preferring revolvers with no lock, much as a lot of guys prefer series 70 1911's to series 80's due to the added safety mechanism. (one extra part that may fail).

Anyone?

[mustanger98]

My recommendations... all used... prices mostly tend to be lower.

Ruger's Blackhawk in .357/.38

S&W Models 10 (.38), 19 and 28 (.38/.357), and 29 (.44mag)

Regarding Models 19 and 28, the U.S. Border Patrol used to issue the 19, but from what I understand, if an agent preferred the 28, it was fine according to the regs to carry it.

I prefer no internal safety lock too. I'd prefer not to get in a bind fooling with some extra gadget... maybe pressed for time... maybe lost the key...

[SabbathWolf]

I honestly don't know. As I've been looking I see people preferring revolvers with no lock, much as a lot of guys prefer series 70 1911's to series 80's due to the added safety mechanism. (one extra part that may fail).

Anyone?

OH!!!!
Now I see.
Many newer handguns come with an internal lock that disengages the hammer or trigger so the cannot be fired by a child or whatever on accident.
There is usually a tiny lil hole to put a tiny lil key in to lock or unlock the gun.
You can just leave it unlocked forever if you want and just toss the key away if you feel like it.
It has no bearing at all on the functionality of the gun.

[David E]

Home defense use precludes a single action.

Since you reload, you can also consider a .44 magnum, which can handle .44 Special with aplomb.

My choice would be a Smith & Wesson Model 29 or 629 with a 4" or 6" non-lugged barrel. For ranch duties, I'd carry it in a Bianchi #111 or KyTac Woods Walker, both worn cross-draw.

Typical load would be a 240 SWC @ 1000 fps or so.

Home defense would find it loaded with factory JHP's in .44 Special.

[o Unforgiven o]

"No Lock" or "Pre-Lock" refers to older S&W revolvers that were made with no internal lock. Most revolver guys prefer pre-lock S&W's because they were made long enough ago that the quality of them is superior in some ways over today's models, and some just don't like the idea of their gun having an internal lock.

[SabbathWolf]

Home defense use precludes a single action.



Lol....says who?
TV?
a YouTube armchair commando?
Rambo?

[TennJed]

I would recommend a double action over a single action for home defense duties as the double action trigger pull will make it less likely to have an accidental discharge.



I am sure i am missing something but wouldn't a SA be far less likely to have an accidental discharge? The trigger pull doesn't matter until you cock the hammer.

I like the suggestion of the Ruger Blackhawk in 357/9mm. Gives you a lot of ammo choices and a lot of fun.

[xmanpike]

Is this Talo version worth the price and is the 3" too short?
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411549877/S%26W+M629+DLX+44M+REV+3SS+TALO

[highpower]

I am sure i am missing something but wouldn't a SA be far less likely to have an accidental discharge? The trigger pull doesn't matter until you cock the hammer

When a single action is cocked, it takes very little trigger pressure to discharge the weapon. A double action (actually it should be referred to as trigger cocking) trigger pull is heavier and longer and therefore requires a more deliberate action on the part of the shooter.

At some point you are going to cock the gun, I can't speak for others, but if I was tracking an intruder in my house, I would be full of adrenaline and probably more likely to pull the trigger before I was ready. I would rather have the more deliberate action required to use a revolver in the double action mode. Besides, if you really, really have to walk around your house with a cocked gun, you have the option of using your double action gun in the single action mode.

[towboat_er]

I like that 629... Looks like a good choice to me.

[splithoof]

S&W 625, 4". New, used, or old, a very capable wheel gun that shoots very well, will last forever, and is a very good nightstand social piece.

[357 Terms]

As a nightstand gun something "357 or larger" is prolly not the best choice. (noise)

I don't know what "auto's" you have but they are prolly better suited for nightstand use.

For range use and around the ranch a single action Ruger is an excellent choice.

[TennJed]

When a single action is cocked, it takes very little trigger pressure to discharge the weapon. A double action (actually it should be referred to as trigger cocking) trigger pull is heavier and longer and therefore requires a more deliberate action on the part of the shooter.

At some point you are going to cock the gun, I can't speak for others, but if I was tracking an intruder in my house, I would be full of adrenaline and probably more likely to pull the trigger before I was ready. I would rather have the more deliberate action required to use a revolver in the double action mode. Besides, if you really, really have to walk around your house with a cocked gun, you have the option of using your double action gun in the single action mode.
That makes sense. I love SA revolvers but do not use them for self defense. I shoot them a lot and would like to think I would not cock one is a SD situation unless I was ready to fire, but having never been in that situation I can not say for sure what I would do.

I do feel a SA revolver is a great option for someone just starting out in handguns though. The deliberate act of cocking the hammer should be a safety asset in range use (IMHO)

[skidder]

OH!!!!
Now I see.
Many newer handguns come with an internal lock that disengages the hammer or trigger so the cannot be fired by a child or whatever on accident.
There is usually a tiny lil hole to put a tiny lil key in to lock or unlock the gun.
You can just leave it unlocked forever if you want and just toss the key away if you feel like it.
It has no bearing at all on the functionality of the gun.

I might be mistaken, but didn't they change the shape of the frame too?
It looks to me like the curve below the hammer is much lower on the older ones without the lock.


http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9889/10696504_1.jpg

http://www.homedefenseweapons.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Smith-Wesson-686-Plus-Review.jpg

http://dechielfirearms.com/WordPress/wp-content/uploads/IMG_4026.jpg

[SabbathWolf]

When a single action is cocked, it takes very little trigger pressure to discharge the weapon. A double action (actually it should be referred to as trigger cocking) trigger pull is heavier and longer and therefore requires a more deliberate action on the part of the shooter.

At some point you are going to cock the gun, I can't speak for others, but if I was tracking an intruder in my house, I would be full of adrenaline and probably more likely to pull the trigger before I was ready. I would rather have the more deliberate action required to use a revolver in the double action mode. Besides, if you really, really have to walk around your house with a cocked gun, you have the option of using your double action gun in the single action mode.

I really don't see your issue as an issue really.
When the hammer is cocked after I chamber a round in my semi-auto pistol, it's the same difference.

Your finger shouldn't be on the trigger either way with "any" gun, cocked or not, until you are ready to shoot.
This isn't a matter of "this gun vs that gun."
It's a training issue.

[SabbathWolf]

I might be mistaken, but didn't they change the shape of the frame too?
It looks to me like the curve below the hammer is much lower on the older ones without the lock.




My explanation of the lock was an across the board generalization for all manufacturers.
I'm not a S&W expert, and never owned one "with" a lock.
The pics do look different though.
But I'm not really sure.

[highpower]

Your finger shouldn't be on the trigger either way with "any" gun, cocked or not, until you are ready to shoot.
This isn't a matter of "this gun vs that gun."
It's a training issue.


I agree, but how many people take the time to take a tactical training course? How many then keep on training regularly? It may OK for YOU to run around your house with a gun cocked and ready to go, but I don't think that there are very many people that have the training and mindset to do that safely.

Don't take this personally, but I see a lot of braggadocio from people on the internet about what they would do in certain situations. I wonder though, just how well they would perform when the uh, stuff hits the fan.

I remember the first time I was in combat, even with the training I had, I was scared and nervous and really wasn't all that effective.

[David E]

Home defense use precludes a single action.

Lol....says who?
TV?
a YouTube armchair commando?
Rambo?

Anyone that has a choice between the two and has given the matter serious contemplation.

Traipsing around the house in the dark with adrenaline pumping with a hammer cocked that's released with a 2# trigger pull isn't very smart.

[Retcop]

This gun will not be a CCW. It will probably be in my nightstand for home defense and used for shooting at the ranch. I believe I want something in .357 mag or larger, and I do reload quite a few calibers and will for this pistol as well.


The S&W Model 686 - Plus 357 Mag. 6” will be good for HD and especially good around the ranch Loaded with 38's or 357 rounds. It also chambers 7 rounds.

[Warp]

After reading the thread, here are some of my thoughts:

A 4" .357 magnum sounds about right. I could see maybe a 6", since you won't be conceal carrying it...but even around the ranch if you intend to carry it on your person (the best place for it when outside the house, IMO) a 6" barrel can really be a bother. Then again the 6" will have less felt recoil, less muzzle blast (IE, less noise and flash) and more bullet velocity than a 4".

People sometimes want a no-lock when talking about Smith and Wesson revolvers because there are reports of the locks, well, locking when the gun is fired. Nobody wants to have their gun become nothing more than a club when their lives are on the line. These incidents seem to be very rare and possibly (probably?) greatly exaggerated, though. Also worth noting, a competent gunsmith can remove the lock from your revolver.

I advise against using single action for defensive purposes in almost all cases. As such I also advise that anybody who is practicing/training with defense in mind do almost all of their shooting in double action.

If you get a Smith I would consider avoiding the smaller K frame guns. It probably won't be an issue, but hot/light/fast rounds have been said to wear on them faster, especially cutting of the top strap. This is not much of a concern with the Ruger GP100.



Probably if you are looking for a 4-6" full size .357 mag your top contenders will be the Smith 686 and the Ruger GP100. Start searching this section (titles first, then whole threads) and just read and read about them until you come to your own conclusion on which to purchase. And there are plenty of other makes and models to choose from, those two are simply the most popular current production examples.

I went with a 4" GP100. :)

[xmanpike]

Thx everyone for your opinions. I've definitely narrowed it down to a couple!

[JohnKSa]

When the hammer is cocked after I chamber a round in my semi-auto pistol, it's the same difference.There are two big differences.


1. You can unload a cocked autopistol without decocking it even if it doesn't have a decocking system built into it. You can't safely unload a cocked revolver and very few, if any revolvers have a decocking system built into them.

If you cock a revolver and don't shoot, you now have two choices. Put it away cocked, or manually decock it while dealing with the adrenaline rush of thinking you were just about to have to shoot someone.

2. Any autopistol out there with a trigger pull comparable to the trigger pull of a revolver that's been cocked allows you to apply a manual safety. So you can easily put a cocked autopistol into a relatively safe condition by applying a safety--something that's not so easily done with a revolver.

[Stainz]

Just a few thoughts...

1. DA shooting, ie, just squeeze the trigger, is intuitive - first nature. Trained or not, high adrenaline situations are more reliable with a DA trigger.
2. A loaded revolver is more reliable, both for first shots and subsequent shots - including clearing 'duds' - just squeeze the trigger again.
3. S&W has put 'Internal Locks' in their revolvers for over ten years now and has yet to spend the first dime in court defending it's implementation. They are reliable. The majority of my revolvers have it - including my pocket protector and nightstand guns - their keys are still in their boxes.

And, finally, as a 'first' suggestion... find an S&W 4" Model 64 as a security guard trade-in. They run from $250-$340 depending on condition from J&G, etc. It is a SS version of the infamous original M&P, the Model 10. Many of the suggested 64's are configures as 'DA-only', ie, have a bobbed hammer and often no SA notch. No problem - DA shooting is intuitive, fast, and builds skills. Get some inexpensive .38 S&W Special plinking ammo - 130gr MC UMC from WallyWorld, 158gr LHPWC/LRN from GA Arms or Zero, etc, and take it to the range. Great for punching paper, pinging plates, or punching holes in cans. Pick up some +P-rated ammo for defensive duties - or 148gr Wadcutters (target loads), if you are recoil-shy. Save your extra money - add to it - later buy another revolver. You'll be better able to make a great choice then - and you'll already have a great home/car protector, too.

I lucked out several years ago. While perusing a local store's used guns, I found some security guard trade-ins - including this 4" 64-8 (The -8 is still the latest engineering release of the 64.). Never issued - ANIB - $309 OTD!

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_3434.jpg

Or... take a leap of faith and get a S&W 4" 627 Pro - an 8-shooter .38/.357 Magnum that comes moonclip ready and with a few other goodies. Check S&W's site for more info/pix. It should run ~$800-$900 most places. Super revolver. Below it is shown with a 2 5/8" PC627 UDR ~ $60-$80 more. The 627 Pro has both an aftermarket grip and a HiViz sight.

http://s171.photobucket.com/albums/u307/Stainz_2007/IMG_4599.jpg

Both can take moonclipped rounds or from a 5starfirearms.com machined aluminum speedloader/loading plate combo. Note my Remington R38S12 .38 +P 158gr LSWCHPs - my choice over .357 Magnums for protection. The greatest attribute of these revolvers is that they can take either .38's or .357M's - or, as I reload, wimpy 38-ish loads in .357 Magnum cases. YMMV.

Stainz

[Guillermo]

the 4" 686 ia a very good choice for a multi purpose gun.

There are several reasons to buy a used, pre lock, pre MIM 686.

A- cheaper
B- forged rather than injection molded internal parts
C- no "safety device" that requires removing (they are known to set themselves on occasion)
D- better trigger
E- better QC

[Sam1911]

This gun will not be a CCW. It will probably be in my nightstand for home defense and used for shooting at the ranch. I believe I want something in .357 mag or larger, and I do reload quite a few calibers and will for this pistol as well.

Nightstand gun for home defense certainly does take Single-Action revolvers largely out of the running. Sure, they work fine, but they are an enthusiast's gun that cannot equal the safety, speed (especially of reloading), and ease of use of a (slightly) more modern double-action revolver for that 99.9% of the population who are not life-long dedicated Single Action shooters.

That's really a hands-down obvious choice. If you think about it, when revolvers ruled the defensive handgunning world, almost every cop, soldier, guard, detective, store clerk, and homeowner reached for a Double-Action model for those uses. Single Actions are beautiful, stylish, nostalgic, and make a FANTASTIC hunting gun. For working around the ranch where your shots will likely be targets of opportunity, varmints and such, a SA revolver has a lot of classic appeal. But, they have shotcomings as a defensive tool.

As for .357 vs. .44? Both are great choices. I'd choose .44 simply because of how incredibly versatile it is. My daughter could handle my .44 Spc. match load when she was 7 years old. My other favorite load is a 300 gr. bullet at 1,250 fps! But of course, .357 and .41 Mag also give you very similar ability to go from "Easy Like Sunday Morning" to "Highway to Hell" from one cylinder full to the next! :)

I'd also stick in the 4" - 6" range. My personal match and carry revolver is a 4" 629 and it just MIGHT be the one handgun I'd keep if all others had to go.

[Frank Ettin]

Another thing to consider is that while the S&W 629/625/627s are fine revolvers in their respective calibers (.44 Magnum/.44 Special, .45 Colt or .45 ACP, .357 Magnum/.38 Special), they are built on the large S&W frame (called the N frame). Some people with smaller hands (me for example) could find them a bit too large to manage well, especially for shooting double action.

The 686 in .357 Magnum/.38 Special is built on the slightly smaller L frame and can be manged better by some people. The still slightly smaller S&W K frame revolvers (models 10, 19, 65 and 66) also in .357 Magnum/.38 Special handle nicely too, but felt recoil is a bit stouter.

[michaelbsc]

When a single action is cocked, it takes very little trigger pressure to discharge the weapon. A double action (actually it should be referred to as trigger cocking) trigger pull is heavier and longer and therefore requires a more deliberate action on the part of the shooter.

At some point you are going to cock the gun, I can't speak for others, but if I was tracking an intruder in my house, I would be full of adrenaline and probably more likely to pull the trigger before I was ready. I would rather have the more deliberate action required to use a revolver in the double action mode. Besides, if you really, really have to walk around your house with a cocked gun, you have the option of using your double action gun in the single action mode.

Your attorney wants you to have a DAO enclosed hammer. That removes all doubt in the defense process. The testimony then becomes that you were absolutely in fear for your life. No mistakes. No accidental discharge.

Just don't shoot the intruder in the back.

I am not an attorney. And I don't play one on TV. So this advice is worth what you're paying me, nothing.

MB

[jj1962hemi]

I'd get a .357Mag and start shooting it with .38SPL to get comfortable. I love my Model 66 (ss, 4" bbl, adj. sights). Since you're not carrying it, I'd stick with adjustable sights. It's also cheaper to shoot in .38SPL than a 44 of any kind (if cost is a concern).

I had a Ruger Single Six that was my favorite handgun in terms of "feel," but I'd be leery of using it for SD due to the potential of accidental discharge. That said, I may buy one in .357 because I like them.

I've also heard the Ruger GP-100 is practically indestructable, which is nice if you plan on running hot loads around the ranch.

Another more ammo-cost effective choice would be a Model 25 in 45ACP. They're beautiful, pack a solid punch (not quite like the 44s), and ammo is easy and cheap to come by. I don't see you going wrong with an S&W or Ruger.

For what you're considering paying, you could also get a nice, collectable, appreciating, S&W 1917 revlver in 45 ACP (high on my wish list).

Good luck!

JJ

[xmanpike]

You guys are great. My CCW is a Dan Wesson CCO in 45 ACP right now, and while I would be convenient to get my revolver in this, I like expanding calibre in my collection. :)

I'm def going .357 or .44 mag route. Recoil has never been an issue for me. Even shooting +p loads in my aluminum frame 1911. Just a matter of finding the right gun now. I'm hesitant to buy used as I don't know the things to look for on a revolver that I would on a semi-auto. No idea how the lock-up should be.

[MrDig]

I am partial to Ruger GP100 models, But I also own Taurus, as well as Smith and Wesson Revolvers.
If the Money you pay is not an issue I would recommend the Smith and Wesson and say go to a store find a few different models if you can and see how they feel in your hand. Not all models are the same even with the same brand.
If you cannot afford a Smith and Wesson Revolver I would recommend the Ruger GP 100 with a 4 inch Barrel.
I would recommend a Taurus 66 but would get flamed for doing it. I would also recommend saving the extra money and getting a Ruger GP100 if pressed, because I agree with most that you would be happier with the Ruger in the long run.
I can't really comment on the lower end revolvers but have heard good reviews of the Rossi 357's. Rossi is comparatively priced with the Taurus revolvers and at a show recently was told by a Taurus Representative that they purchased Rossi.

[Walkalong]

I'm def going .357 or .44 mag route
Hard to beat a Redhawk or Models 29/629 for .44 Mag, but if you bump into a deal on an Astra .44 mag, they are fine guns as well.

.357? Gosh, there are so many excellent ones. For an all around gun I like the 4" revolver, but for range shooting, I like 6" guns as well.

Can't go wrong with a 19, 66, or Security Six for smaller and lighter gun, a GP-100, 586/686, or Trooper Mk III for a more medium sized gun, & a 27 or 28 if you want something bigger. Kind of depends on what size/weight you are interested in. Naturally recoil goes up as the size goes down.

Not to mention the Cobra or Python, if you want to spend more.

[56hawk]

Recoil has never been an issue for me. Even shooting +p loads in my aluminum frame 1911.

Have you ever shot a 44 Magnum? Recoil is going to be at least twice as much as that +p 45 ACP.

[Warp]

Recoil has never been an issue for me. Even shooting +p loads in my aluminum frame 1911.

No offense, but it sounds like you are yet to experience even the tip of the iceberg in terms of handgun recoil.

[xmanpike]

No I understand. I have shot a .357 mag and .44mag that were both short barrels. I just have never really been bothered by recoil. I heard the same Warnings when I was getting ready to shoot a 338-378. While its not exactly pleasant, it's nothing that's difficult to deal with.

[56hawk]

Okay. Just wanted to make sure. :)

[xmanpike]

Appreciate it. I like things that give a big bang :)

[xmanpike]

Why do I have a feeling I am going to end up with both a .357 and a .44? :)

[56hawk]

Don't forget that you are also going to have to get a 454 and a 500.

[xmanpike]

I thought about that already, but I think I'd split the diff and get the 460 so I can shoot 460, 454, and 45 colt loads!

[MrDig]

Why do I have a feeling I am going to end up with both a .357 and a .44? :)

That is what happened to me, I also have Marlin Lever Guns to go with each of the revolvers.
This is the slippery slope we tread;)

[glassman]

S&W mod 64. Simple to use, effective and easy to care for. Also more easily controlled than a heavier caliber revolver if a follow up shot is needed.

[philoe]

Tons of good information here. I will only add a couple of things. Should you want or need to sell the revolver in the future, 4" DA .357s are usually pretty easy to unload. .44s (depending on model of course) can take a bit longer. Having said that, if you are patient, you can find a barely used .44 (many folks don't like the recoil) for a steal relative to market value. Last thing I would add would be to stick with quality names. Your budget allows you SmithWesson, Ruger and if you get real lucky even Colt at the high end of your budget. Best of luck.

[JEB]

my preference would be for a 4" ruger gp100 in .357 magnum. if using it for HD, i would consider using 38+p or mid-range .357's. a full house .357 indoors is LOUD!

[Monster Zero]

There's been a lot of discussion around here lately about some of the deals they're making at J&G sales, particularly Smith model 10's and DAO model 64's. Both .38 specials, which would be an excellent revolver caliber to start with IMO.

[Pfletch83]

Nothing wrong with a Smith&Wesson K frame,carried a k frame for a number of years and never felt unarmed.

But you might want to look at the Smith&Wesson Governor,it offers 6 choices in firepower.

#1: 2-1/2 inch .410 shells (Federal Buckshot for close range threats)
#2: .45 Long Colt
#3: .45 ACP
#4: .45 Schofield
#5: .45 GAP
#6: .45 Autorim

The Basic model is priced at $679.00 M.S.R.P.

There is also a Crimson Trace grip option for around $800.00 M.S.R.P.

Both models have a front night sight.

All in all hard to beat for the price,and craftsmanship.

[Warp]

I suggest not looking at a governor, but sticking to a .357 magnum.

[wep45]

Hard to beat a S&W 686. 357 Magnum with six or seven shots. With a four inch barrel it handles really well and would be great for target shooting and home defense

target practice...ok. however NO to home defense. fired rounds may go through the BG and walls, others in the house and your neighbors house.:uhoh:
also, the report coming from a .357 magnum, inside of a building, will knock your socks off.:what:

a .38 special revolver with 148 grain wadcutters or a .22 caliber would be a better/safer choice.

[Warp]

I have a 4" .357 mag right behind my laptop as I type this. It's "home" is right here on the coffee table.

Yes, it would surely harm my hearing. But I'll take that trade-off.

[Pfletch83]

The blast from any firearm inside a house is going to cause your hearing to go away for awhile.

The Buckshot loads are rated for 850 fps out of a revolver barrel,and the buckshot will lose energy faster than a single projectile (.357 Mag will punch through the BG and house walls as well...and could go quite a distance until it loses velocity...one way or another).

[Warp]

I don't think the 125gr hollow points in mine will punch right through the attacker and keep going.

[Pfletch83]

@Warp

What do you have against the Governor?

[Warp]

@Warp

What do you have against the Governor?

I do not believe it does anything well enough to compete with a .357 mag for a guy buying his first revolver.

We all know, and have discussed, what makes a .357 wheelgun useful. What does a governor/judge/public defender/whatever do better, and why?

[Pfletch83]

The Governor is a very good contender (Same can be said of the Taurus Judges) as a home defense firearm.

Price wise it offers 3-6 choices in ammo.

Besides the popular .45's it can use three other .45 rounds (.45 schofield,.45 GAP,and .45 Autorim).

For close range home or personal defense the .410 buckshot load by federal is throwing 4-pellets per trigger pull,nothing against the other handguns,as I've said I carried a .38spl for the longest time,and still like it,but I see what the Governor offers and it can't be overlooked,price is another consideration (And the Z-Frame is still an S&W Revolver) $679.00 for the base model isn't a bad deal when you look at what you're getting value and build wise.


Check out this site....

www.410handguns.com



How much does a 686 go for these days ($800.00-$900.00 maybe)?

[Warp]

Price wise it offers 3-6 choices in ammo.
Which of those ammo types is less expensive than .38 special?


For close range home or personal defense the .410 buckshot load by federal is throwing 4-pellets per trigger pull

What size/mass are those projectiles? What kind of accuracy/spread? What is their penetration in ballistics gel?? Basically...how does their terminal performance compare to a good round of .38spl or .357 mag?



How much does a 686 go for these days ($800.00-$900.00 maybe)?

$700 at Buds, so that or a little more at a local shop probably.

My 4" Ruger GP100 was $550 last year, and I think they still go for that a lot of places.

[Pfletch83]

A ruger does not a smith make (nothing against ruger)


For what is going out of the muzzle per trigger pull,and the weight of each pellet,plus velocity and intended application...the Federal 2-1/2 inch buckshot load is the cheapest going.

[Warp]

A ruger does not a smith make (nothing against ruger)


For what is going out of the muzzle per trigger pull,and the weight of each pellet,plus velocity and intended application...the Federal 2-1/2 inch buckshot load is the cheapest going.

You're right. The Ruger will hold up to the extremely hot/light/fast loads better than the Smith. Or so they say. That's why I went with a Ruger, primarily.

So what you are saying is that you don't know the weight of each projectile, or how far they penetrate in ballistics gel...or the numbers aren't so good so you don't want to type them out. At least that's what I'm hearing. ;)

Oh yes, also what you are saying is that, despite saying "price wise there are 3-6 ammo choices", those ammo choices are more expensive than the ammo choices for a .357 mag.


I just don't buy a Judge, which frankly seems like a novelty for most people more than anything, replacing a good .357 as a guys first revolver. Don't see it at all

[Pfletch83]

Okay ...


One '000' buck pellet weighs in at about 70 grains.

70x4= 280 grains total projectile weight at a listed (850 fps about the same velocity as a 230 grain .45 ACP)

4 pellets per shell x 6 =24 pellets for a fully loaded cylinder.

[Warp]

Why not just have a .45 ACP loaded with 11 to 14 rounds that is easier to shoot, more accurate, greater at any kind of distance and costs less?

[Pfletch83]

Why buy a .45acp only when you could have a .45 acp plus 5 other cartridge choices?

The whole conversation is like comparing a chop to a slap on the water,the chop will go deeper into the water,the slap will send shockwaves all over the pond.

[Warp]

Why buy a .45acp only when you could have a .45 acp plus 5 other cartridge choices?

Remind me...what, exactly, do you gain with the ability to fire .45 schofield,.45 GAP,and .45 Autorim, etc, in your first and only revolver??

And, if you would please...can you explain why what you gain by being able to fire .45 schofield outweighs having double or triple the capacity in a less expensive, easier to shoot platform?

[Pfletch83]

A person with the Governor isn't heeled into just one type of cartridge.

The Governor also shows why revolvers are still around,because it amplifies the usefullness of the wheelgun in flexabilty and does so very well.

[Warp]

A person with the Governor isn't heeled into just one type of cartridge.

Do you really, truly believe that being able to fire .45 schofield,.45 GAP, .45 Autorim, etc, outweighs a less expensive, easier to shoot option that has triple the capacity in .45 ACP? For a guy who, I will wager you $$$, doesn't have a a single round of .45 schofield,.45 GAP, or .45 Autorim??

We aren't talking about a gun you might buy to have fun with, here. We are talking about the OP's first revolver, for use on the range and at home.

[valnar]

Smith 686 if you want the consummate .357 revolver.
Smith 625 .45ACP if you want to be different. :D

[Pfletch83]

What is your less expensive option? (Keep in mind the Governor's M.S.R.P. is $679.00)

And why would it be useful to HAVE to use one type of round only?

[Warp]

What is your less expensive option? (Keep in mind the Governor's M.S.R.P. is $679.00)

And why would it be useful to HAVE to use one type of round only?

Depends. Sticking to what I think is a better fit, that being a .357 mag, the Ruger GP100 would be less expensive.

BUT, more to the point, because your only listed benefit was the ability to fire all of the .45 cartridges, a semi auto .45 ACP would cost less, be easier to shoot, and hold three times as many rounds. If shooting .45 for home defense is what you are after (again, the only advantage you listed to a judge type weapon) then just buy a good .45 and wipe the floor with the revolver at that task.

[Pfletch83]

And the Governor can use 2-1/2 inch .410 shells to top it all.

[Warp]

What does a little .410 shell do that .357 mag doesn't do, and probably do better?

What do you use for inexpensive practice in a governor? You use basic .38spl in a .357 for that...

[Pfletch83]

Throws 4 pellets per trigger pull which means that anything at close range that is hit by said '000' pellets is going to have their insides ground into hamburger (with each trigger pull)

How many rounds will someone need to become profecient at accurately launching a single projectile (throw in a stressful situation and you have more misses than hits)

[Warp]

Throws 4 pellets per trigger pull which means that anything at close range that is hit by said '000' pellets is going to have their insides ground into hamburger (with each trigger pull)

It sounds like you either sell these things/stand to profit from their sales, or you bought into marketing hype.

You still haven't given something it will do better than a .357 mag, while I have given things the .357 chambered gun will do better.

FYI: The .357 mag is plenty effective as a defense round. It gives up nothing to a little .410 shell out of a short barrel. ;)

[Pfletch83]

Higher rate of fire,and more power than it's given credit for.

I don't sell .410 revolvers,I don't own one as of yet (paying for one in lay-n-wait at this time).

The same could be said of you about the .357 magnum (Keep in mind that I like a good revolver in .38 special and .357 magnum,it just turns out that I like the Governor as much,because it does have a good reason for being,and that reason is close range defensive applications).

Keep in mind that most defensive handgun encounters don't happen at longer ranges than a few yards,more happen at less than 10 feet,and at that range I like the idea of four pellets going down range at a threat,instead of one projectile that could miss or pass through completely.

The other reason for taking to the .410 revolver is that it shares ammo with my defensive shotgun (DFG Mk-1)

[Warp]

Higher rate of fire

How do you figure?

and more power than it's given credit for.

I think they are given more credit for power than they deserve. I think people get all hung up on thinking it's a hand held shotgun. Your 12 gauge and a .410 are vastly differently. A lot of people don't seem to get this, IME.



The same could be said of you about the .357 magnum
What could?


Keep in mind that most defensive handgun encounters don't happen at longer ranges than a few yards,more happen at less than 10 feet,and at that range I like the idea of four pellets going down range at a threat,instead of one projectile that could miss or pass through completely.

A .357 JHP that "passes through completely" will be putting a serious hurting on the attacker, and will dump almost all of its energy into the attacker (likely won't even come out the other side). Please don't say that like it's a bad thing.


The other reason for taking to the .410 revolver is that it shares ammo with my defensive shotgun (DFG Mk-1)

Does it share ammo with the OP's defensive shotgun?

[Pfletch83]

@Warp:

"It sounds like you either sell these things/stand to profit from their sales, or you bought into marketing hype."

Your words sir not mine.

True the Governor isn't a hand held shotgun....but it's the closest thing we can legally own without jumping through so much red tape.

And the Shotgun (DFG Mk-1) has more to offer than you think.

[Warp]

The "closest thing" isn't very close.

[Pfletch83]

How isn't it the closest thing?

besides the rifling what else is the deal?

[Warp]

How isn't the closest thing?

besides the rifling what else is the deal?

A .410 shotgun shell isn't all that powerful. You yourself argued that it was equivalent to a .45 ACP.

Do you understand that?

[Pfletch83]

from a revolver barrel not a shotgun barrel.

From a shotgun barrel (for example the DFG Mk-1 the pellets are leaving the muzzle at the original listed velocity of 1200fps or close enough to it that it doesn't really matter)

[Warp]

from a revolver barrel not a shotgun barrel.

From a shotgun barrel (for example the DFG Mk-1 the pellets are leaving the muzzle at the original listed velocity of 1200fps)

Good lord.

We are talking about from a revolver barrel.

Do you understand that?

[56hawk]

This is turning into quite an entertaining thread. :D

[Pfletch83]

Why bring him into it this is between you and me.


Besides even at the lower velocity (from a revolver barrel) of 850fps...the pellets still out number a single 230 grain bullet,even if someone were using a standard 1911-A1 and dumped the mag,it's still 7-8 shots vs 24...are you starting to understand now?

[Warp]

Besides even at the lower velocity (from a revolver barrel) of 850fps...the pellets still out number a single 230 grain bullet,even if someone were using a standard 1911-A1 and dumped the mag,it's still 7-8 shots vs 24...are you starting to understand now?

I would take 7-8 (or 14, that's how many my .45 ACP holds) 230gr JHP over 24 little 70gr pellets.

You probably should too.

It isn't that powerful. Get over it.


/I'm done

[Pfletch83]

The .410 has more firepower than you give it credit for.

How many times do you have to pull the trigger to empty the magazine?

that number vs 6 trigger pulls. I'll stick with the .410,you can stick with your choice.

[SabbathWolf]

I agree, but how many people take the time to take a tactical training course? How many then keep on training regularly? It may OK for YOU to run around your house with a gun cocked and ready to go, but I don't think that there are very many people that have the training and mindset to do that safely.

Don't take this personally, but I see a lot of braggadocio from people on the internet about what they would do in certain situations. I wonder though, just how well they would perform when the uh, stuff hits the fan.

I remember the first time I was in combat, even with the training I had, I was scared and nervous and really wasn't all that effective.

I see what you are saying, but I don't think we are on the same wave length here.

Why would I need to take a course and "pay" somebody else just to tell me to keep my finger off the trigger until I'm ready to shoot? You don't need a course for that.

I'm not sure where the "braggadocio" stuff is coming from though.
How does that relate to something as simple as this?
I "am" a 20 year retired army vet though.
You can PM me if you like, if you feel the need to talk about combat.
I'm sure a lot of other vets here would lend an ear too if you need to vent or talk about it with other vets.
We're here for you brother.

[SabbathWolf]

There are two big differences.


1. You can unload a cocked autopistol without decocking it even if it doesn't have a decocking system built into it. You can't safely unload a cocked revolver and very few, if any revolvers have a decocking system built into them.

If you cock a revolver and don't shoot, you now have two choices. Put it away cocked, or manually decock it while dealing with the adrenaline rush of thinking you were just about to have to shoot someone.

2. Any autopistol out there with a trigger pull comparable to the trigger pull of a revolver that's been cocked allows you to apply a manual safety. So you can easily put a cocked autopistol into a relatively safe condition by applying a safety--something that's not so easily done with a revolver.



As for whether the gun is cocked or not cocked....I don't have a bunch of different rules for all the various guns I own. It would be way too complicated that way. "Especially" under extreme stress just like you mention here.
I tend to look at home defense with firearms from the bigger picture.

What I mean by that is this....

Depending on what time of day or night it is, what I'm doing at the time, and what room I happen to be in at the time...if I needed to grab a HD firearm immediately, I could potentially end up with any one of several different weapons in my hand depending on what I was closer to at the given moment.

If I happen to grab a revolver or a semi-auto pistol and cock the hammer...I see it as no big deal.
Why?
Because, on a different night, it may have been a shotgun, a pistol caliber carbine or a rifle instead.
Once I chamber the first round in any of those weapons, there is "NO" hammer that I can "un"cock in the first place. Pull the trigger, and it goes bang.

So again, it is my stance that the "weight" of the trigger pull, the type of gun it is or isn't, and all that makes no difference at all.
I keep my finger off "EVERY" trigger until I'm ready to shoot.

Whether the gun in question has a safety on it or not, I also find irrelevant.
If somebody is breaking in to my home, or attacking a member of my family or me, I guarantee that if the gun "does" have a safety on it...it will be "off" in a heartbeat anyways.

[Warp]

As for whether the gun is cocked or not cocked....I don't have a bunch of different rules for all the various guns I own. It would be way too complicated that way. "Especially" under extreme stress just like you mention here.
I tend to look at home defense with firearms from the bigger picture.

What I mean by that is this....

Depending on what time of day or night it is, what I'm doing at the time, and what room I happen to be in at the time...if I needed to grab a HD firearm immediately, I could potentially end up with any one of several different weapons in my hand depending on what I was closer to at the given moment.

If I happen to grab a revolver or a semi-auto pistol and cock the hammer...I see it as no big deal.
Why?
Because, on a different night, it may have been a shotgun, a pistol caliber carbine or a rifle instead.
Once I chamber the first round in any of those weapons, there is "NO" hammer that I can "un"cock in the first place. Pull the trigger, and it goes bang.

So again, it is my stance that the "weight" of the trigger pull, the type of gun it is or isn't, and all that makes no difference at all.
I keep my finger off "EVERY" trigger until I'm ready to shoot.

Whether the gun in question has a safety on it or not, I also find irrelevant.
If somebody is breaking in to my home, or attacking a member of my family or me, I guarantee that if the gun "does" have a safety on it...it will be "off" in a heartbeat anyways.


To de-cock the revolver you have to pull the trigger.

How many of your defensive firearms do you have to pull the trigger on when you do not intend to fire?

In my mind a design that leads to having to pull the trigger, on a LOADED gun, when you do not intend to fire is not-so-good.

I mean, are you really okay with pulling the trigger, on a loaded gun, with no intention of firing?

[Pfletch83]

@Warp

So you're saying that the O.P. should stick with a semi-auto?


This is the revolver section of the forums you know.

[SabbathWolf]

Home defense use precludes a single action.



Anyone that has a choice between the two and has given the matter serious contemplation.

Traipsing around the house in the dark with adrenaline pumping with a hammer cocked that's released with a 2# trigger pull isn't very smart.

Traipsing around the house with your finger on the trigger isn't very smart.
Cocked or not makes no difference.
The weight of the pull is a non-issue.
Under stress at close range most people will yank the hell out of a trigger, I don't care "how" heavy it is.

And single action guns have killed thousands of people over the last 150 years or so. There is nothing inadequate about them at all....lol
I mean, I own a 12+1 shot 45acp semi-auto as well that I really like, but I'd still not be afraid to use my 6-gun in a SD situation either. They'll still kill ya just as dead.

[Warp]

@Warp

So you're saying that the O.P. should stick with a semi-auto?


This is the revolver section of the forums you know.

Even though I am 100% convinced you are trolling, I will answer this anyway:

You went all crazy on .45 love and how awesome the Judge or whatever is, and why it's a better choice than a .357 mag, because it'll fire 5 .45s for home defense. If that's the criteria, a semi auto that holds 14+ .45s would be even better. That's all.

Of course, I still say a 6 shot .357 mag is better than a 5 shot .45 or a 5 shot revolver with those little .410s.

I really am done now, as I will be off to bed.


y'all have fun now.

[Pfletch83]

I'm not trolling I simply explained my position about the Governor revolver and how it was a good choice for a close range defensive handgun.

Then you went on about the .357 ( which is fine) and then brought a .45 semi-auto into the argument....even though I was talking about a revolver...in the REVOLVER section of the forums.

There is a single action .45/.410 revolver made by US Firearms called the M4-410.

Something to think about.

[TennJed]

I love my my judge and I am pro governor. However it is not the best option for self defense and it is pretty absurd to use the fact that it can fire 3 obscure 45 cartridges in this thread. The only people that would benifit are reloaders of unusual calibers

[David E]

And single action guns have killed thousands of people over the last 150 years or so.

Yup. Many of them accidentally. :rolleyes:

[Pfletch83]

@TennJed

I'm not trolling I simply explained my position about the Governor revolver and how it was a good choice for a close range defensive handgun.

Never said it was THE best defensive gun out there (Though at close ranges you'll be hard pressed to find something better)

[SabbathWolf]

To de-cock the revolver you have to pull the trigger.

How many of your defensive firearms do you have to pull the trigger on when you do not intend to fire?

In my mind a design that leads to having to pull the trigger, on a LOADED gun, when you do not intend to fire is not-so-good.

I mean, are you really okay with pulling the trigger, on a loaded gun, with no intention of firing?


Well...yes. I'm OK with it.
You just HAVE TO take the time to learn and know your weapon.
I agree it may not be the best design, but it is what it is.

I've manually set the hammer gently back down on plenty of 1911s too after I've fired a few shots but the gun isn't completely ran dry.
I mean I "could" drop the mag, rack the slide, pick up the chambered bullet off the ground, dust it off, load it back in the mag, and put the mag back in the gun every single time...but I don't.
:D

[SabbathWolf]

Yup. Many of them accidentally. :rolleyes:

I see.
Of course that NEVER happens with any other types of guns.
Geeze...lol
:rolleyes:

[David E]

It happens with guns that have the hammer cocked far more often than a gun that has its hammer down.

Should the brain be the ultimate safety? Of course, but not everyone is as calm, cool and collected as you..... So telling then to get their first revolver that'll be used for HD in a single action format is puzzling.

[oldfool]

1st centerfire revolver for both home and range
any full frame full weight S&W or Ruger, new or old model (there are no bad choices in any of those, just personal fit and personal preferences), 38/357 caliber, DA/SA action, 4" to 6" barrel length, adjustable sights desirable for more varied range fun and/or hunting

Extreme versatility in both choice of ammo load and shooting style, fast or slow, SA or DA mode of choice, mix-n-match targets, loads, target distances.. you can do it all with just one revolver
357 loads are plenty enough to adequately defend against anything that routinely walks on two legs, and most things that routinely walk on four legs.. and 38 loads are inexpensive and versatile in their own right

Leave DAOs and snubbies and lighter-than-air for if/ when you decide to 'specialize' on a CCW revolver
Leave shotshell handguns to watermelon hunters
Unless your real name is Bob Munden, leave SA shooting mode defensive tactics to shooting 1911s; SA revolvers are not 1911s, as has been well explained in numerous posts by others above. Why anybody would dispute that is just one of cyberspace's minor mysteries.

PS
a Ruger Blackhawk (any caliber of your own preference) would make a fine general purpose 'ranch gun', it would, no dispute.
Just nowhere near the versatility of a full frame/weight 38/357 general purpose DA/SA revolver
Half the fun and skill building in revolver shooting is very much about double action shooting

[Sam1911]

ENOUGH!

The OP asked a VERY straightforward question with some quite simple, rational answers.

That we ended up sucked into long-winded arguments about .410 shotshell and Single-Action revolvers is silly and embarassing.