Accurizing the Mosin Nagant Rifle: A How-To Guide to Bringing Out The Accuracy of You


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 20, 2012, 08:18 PM
Okay guys, I've been seeing some Mosin-Bashing lately, though it is considerably less than on other forums. The Mosin Nagant rifle is probably the best mil-surp bang for your inexpensive buck. You get to own a piece of history that is entirely capable of hunting, plinking, or whatever else you could think of doing with this old war-horse.

Firstly, we have to realize that the Mosin Nagant has some problems. They aren't the greatest rifle in the world, and has its limitations. It is a crude, "clunky" firearm, as some call it, but a lot of use do see the beauty in these rifles. But what most don't take into account, is that these rifles were given to uneducated conscripts, who were told to defend their country at all costs. So naturally, they're going to be a little rough around the edges, but they will go bang. But most cases of them going bang, it leaves a little something to be desired.

These rifles, the biggest complaint that I see about them, is accuracy. Yeah, yeah. Yada yada. Some are accurate, little are really accurate, but most leave a lot to be desired in that department. But one of the nicest things about these rifles is that they are just so easily customizable, that why wouldn't you do something with it?

I'm more of a purist at heart, and don't do much to the mil-surps, but this article that I am writing won't involve any extreme sporterizing. Actually, it's quite the opposite. Your rifle can stay in the original stock with all of these modifications, and most would be none-the-wiser to your modifications. Hell, most of these you wouldn't really be able to notice without a closer look! So in my eyes, this is a plus.

I've been doing a lot of reading about this area lately, and have found a lot of useful links, plus some of my own experience in modifying these rifles, and decided to compile them all into one thread. This post will be long, so bear with me.

First thing we're going to talk about is the stock. This is where a lot of the accuracy problems are going to spring up, and in a lot of cases that I have read, is the only thing that needs tweaked to tighten up the groups.

There's a few things you can do the the original stock to accurize this rifle, without making it look like a bubba'd hack-job:

1.) Glass-bed the stock
2.) Pillar-bed the stock
3.) Free-float the stock.

Of these three things, I have no personal experience doing this myself. Though, I do have plans for doing so someday soon. The processes are actually pretty simple, and I will provide links and a general description of the steps required.

1.) Glass-Bed the Stock:

I have quoted and paraphrased this post from the forum "Gun and Game" and will provide a link as well. This member has gotten good results from glass-bedding his stock. (The same link will cover pillar-bedding as well.)

The word "accuracy" in a rifle is synonymous with "consistency". The idea is to get the rifle to react the same way, every time it is fired. When an action can move within the stock when it is fired (and not return to the same position each time), or when a wood stock changes dimensionally due to changes in temperature or humidity- things are not consistent, and accuracy suffers.

There are two main types of bedding- first is receiver bedding, where the objective is to place the action into a custom, tight-as-a-gnat's *** "fit" in the stock. This prevents the action from moving within the stock- even during the violent forces of recoil.

Second type of bedding is referred to as pillar bedding. In the MN, the action screws hold the trigger guard/magazine assembly to the barreled action. This is "interrupted" by the wood stock, which prevents tight, metal-to-metal contact between these parts. Wood is not dimensionally stable, it changes, together with changes in temperature and humidity. This, in turn, changes the areas of, and amounts of, pressure on various areas of the assembly. What we are seeking here is tight, metal-to metal contact of these parts, free of pressure contact with the wood stock.

Bedding the action consists of placing it in a "bed" of epoxy- which will form a perfect, female "mold" of the part- and hold in tightly in position where it cannot move. This is particularly important around the recoil lug on the bottom of the receiver. On modern rifles, this is a thinner, vertical plate that extends downward from the action and butts against a stop in the stock, that prevents the action from slamming backwards under recoil. On the MN, this is a solid steel "block" that receives the front action screw as well. The stock rifle has a recoil cross bolt that transverses the stock. The problem is that a gap will exist between the block on the action and this lug. I'm sure there is a lot of variance, and some will be tighter fitting than others, but a gap will exist. I've read some guys will shim the space. To each their own, I believe epoxy bedding is a preferable, and tighter, method to eliminate this "play". In that regard, I chose to remove the recoil lug completely. Leaving it in place will, IMO, result in reduced effectiveness of the bedding job. There will be too small a gap to fill with epoxy. Either it won't get in there at all, and a gap will remain, or too thin a layer will result and it will crack right out the first time the rifle is fired. I cut the end off the bolt and "dummied" the bolt head and the nut back onto the rifle in their respective holes when I was done. But, there is no longer a recoil bolt.

We also want to place as much of the receiver as possible into this epoxy bed. Depending on the rifle, these areas will vary. Due to the extractor assembly, the left side of the action of the MN is mostly a non-starter. The right side can be done... I did it on the Sporter, but did not on the factory stock. The rear tang is also a "must" area.

In order to place the receiver into a bed of epoxy, we must remove enough of the wood stock in those areas so as to allow room for the epoxy. Be sure to remove enough- as thin, skim bed of epoxy will likely crack and you'll be doing it over. I prefer a minimum of around 1/8". You can see the stock removal in these pics. PLEASE NOTE: the preferred method is to use modeling clay to fill all areas where you do not want the epoxy to flow. I cheated and used painters tape on this because I used up my clay on the sporter. BE SURE to leave the very rear of the tang area untouched- as well as the forward section of the barrel. You need to leave the wood in these areas to ensure the action sets back in the stock properly. If we take out that wood, we end up with the action "swimming" in the epoxy with no way to set it in the proper position.

Prior to placing the barreled action into the epoxy, you have to protect the areas you don't want to get filled with epoxy. Again, modeling clay is preferred. I cheated here again and just taped it up. Remove the trigger assy and extractor and fill these areas with clay. Ditto with the magazine cutout.

Then, you want to tape the recoil lug/block. Place two layers of tape, carefully cut with a sharp razor knife, along the front and both sides of the block. DO NOT place any tape on the rear side of the block. Here, we want an absolutely tight fit against the block of solid epoxy we're forming. The two layers of tape in the other areas create a few thou gap to allow for easier removal of the action from the cured epoxy block.

Once we have these areas protected from epoxy overflow- and the outside of the stock taped up for protection, place the bedding compound into the desired areas. DO NOT SKIMP! You don't want ANY voids here. The excess epoxy will be forced out when the action is pressed into the stock. There are many types of epoxy bedding compounds, and that could be a whole 'nother thread so I won't get into it here. Do your research. I happened to have a gallon jug of West System epoxy from boat projects, so I used that together with thickening agents to add strength, and thicken the consistency. You want a fairly thick mix, somewhere around "mayonnaise" is good.

This is basically wax which prevents the epoxy from sticking to the steel action- which it will do very well if given the chance. Think of it as a mold release agent. DO NOT SKIMP here. Two coats everywhere- over the clay (or my tape, as it were), way up onto the sides of the action as the displaced epoxy will end up there. If your epoxy has a relatively short working time, be sure to get the prep/release agent on the action done before you mix up and begin placing the epoxy- or you'll run out of time.

Then it's a simple matter of pressing the action down into the epoxy. Since I was going to install pillars afterwards, precise alignment was not necessary. If you are not going to do pillars, you need to coat the action screws with tape and release agent and screw the action and mag assembly together tightly. Better yet, if you can find handscrews that fit, use them, or threaded studs.
In that scenario, as you screw/tighten the parts together, the epoxy will squeeze out everywhere. That's fine, that means you used enough.

In my case, I used surgical tubing tightly wrapped, or you can use clamps. We want that puppy pressed down tightly- and fully- into the stock so that we contact those two small wood areas we left alone. Then we know we have the action in the correct position.

Clean up as much of the excess epoxy as you can, but don't worry too much about it. The rest will peel right off after it hardens because of the release agent. Let it sit overnight, and the next morning, release your clamps or action screws, and carefully pry the end of the barrel away from the stock. If you did everything right, it will pop right out of the "mold."


The author of this post suggests clamping down until you have epoxy coming out around the action. The link will provide pictures of his project. This method of bedding seems pretty solid, which follows the principle of consistency. It makes the receiver return to the same spot it was before firing, and after firing. It makes the rifle repeat what it did on the shot before, basically.

Glass-Bedding and Pillar-Bedding (http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/117997-bedding-down-mosins-long-pic-intensive-you-have-been-warned.html)

2.) Piller-Bed the Stock:

Since the author of the post I quoted and edited (for some removal of needless wording) above included information on Glass-bedding and Pillar-bedding in the same post, I'll only be providing one link.

Pillar bedding goes hand-in-hand with receiver bedding.

A bedding "pillar" is nothing more than a metal tube that is cut to a very precise length, that the action screws run through.

Rather than the wood rifle stock providing the necessary spacing and contact points between the action and the magazine/trigger guard, we will place a metal tube between them- to assure precision metal-to-metal contact and consistent spacing. Remember- wood changes dimensionally- sometimes A LOT- with changes in temperature or humidity. Not to mention the possibilty of getting the stock soaked in a rainstorm...

The pillars themselves can be made from many things. Aluminum or steel is fine...tubing, or solid stock drilled to the proper dia. for the action screws.
Rock Solid sells them for ten bucks- no affiliation here, but I don't see how ya can beat that.

I didn't have the time to order them, and was too lazy to go to the hardware store to look for some appropriate size tubing (1/2" outside dia. with 5/16" inside is about right). I had some 1/2" round steel stock lying around, so I used it. Placed it in the drill press vise and drilled out 5/16". Inside dia. of the pillar isn't critical- you want the screws to pass easily through the pillar without binding.

If you buy the ready-made pillars, skip the next part on how to make the pillars...

Assemble the magazine to the action tightly, as you would normally in the stock. Then take a set of calipers and measure the inside clearances front, and rear

Note the lengths- you will now cut your tubing/stock slightly longer than the "tight" measurements you just noted. This assures we've got a bit "extra" for guaranteed metal to metal contact. Go roughly .01 over for your finished length. When you rough-cut from the metal stock you're using, be sure to go even longer than the finished length desired, and cut as squarely as you can.

You will lose some metal in the squaring-up process and getting the length exact by filing. That's why I start out significantly longer than what a need (usually around .1 or so). I can file that off in a heartbeat...remember, you can always take more off, but you can't add back.

Square the ends and getting the proper length.

Test-fit the pillars. Place the action in the stock, and flip it over. Drop the pillars into the holes. Check to see if the wood under the trigger guard assembly is higher than the pillars. If it is- and it was substantially higher in mine- it needs to go. Remove any wood as required so that all of it is slightly lower than the pillar height. When the trigger guard is installed, we want contact only at the pillars- not the wood stock. I also relieved the wood stock around the perimiter of the guard as well. I don't want a tight fit that could "squeeze" or place pressure on it in any location. Steel on steel contact, only. The pillars themselves- held solidly in place with the epoxy- will maintain a tight and correct fit between the action and magazine without relying on the wood stock at all.

Have the action and trigger guard , and the action screws taped up, and coated in release agent. Coat the outside of the pillars with bedding epoxy, and carefully drop them into the appropriate holes. Check from both sides to be sure you've got adequate epoxy coverage, and clean up any excess. Place the action into the stock, flip it over. Insert the magwell/trigger guard into the stock, and install the action screws. That's it- tighten it up as you normally would, allow to set overnight.

Here, the author did both a Glass-Bed and a Pillar-Bed to his stock, and this quoted and cited how-to from him reflects that. Like he also stated, you could either make them, or order them in from Rock Solid. Maybe they still make them, but maybe they don't. I haven't looked, mainly because these tubes are easy to make yourself. The author tells you how to do this in the above quote.

3.) Free-Floating the Stock.

Free-floating the stock is a pretty good way to make the rifle act the same way upon firing, every time. It allows the barrel to flex without the stock getting in the way, which could throw off your shot. (Keep in mind, I'm not going to get too technical in the dynamics of this, all this information is out there on the web, and I don't have the time to explain even the slightest detail on something that can be a problem with every rifle in the world. A free-floated barrel has the ability to be more accurate, like a lot of other on-line sources will be able to tell you.)

I've read a little about this to know that it is simple enough to do by yourself without any special tools. So here, I won't be quoting any body, but I will include a YouTube link for demonstration. (Also note, the YouTube video is not mine.)

What you're going to do is find some medium-grit sand-paper, not too coarse, but not too fine, either, otherwise you could either take too much, or spend the next two days doing this. The next thing you're going to want to do is either find a wood dowel, or even a socket from the tool-box that, when the sand-paper is wrapped around the dowel or socket, that it fills the barrel-channel nicely, but isn't too tight.

With your rifle apart, you can either use some gunsmithing black to find out where it's touching on your barrel, or you can just do the whole project by your hands and eyes. We're going to discuss the simple way.

Wrap the piece of sand-paper around the dowel or socket, and proceed to rub along the barrel-channel to begin taking away wood. You don't want to take away too much, so go slow. You can test if your barrel is floated enough by using a dollar-bill, running it from end to end of the barrel. If it snags, there's one place you can keep sanding. Do this until you have free movement with the dollar-bill. You can do the same to the top-cover piece, as well.

You should probably test this movement with the stock properly installed on the rifle, to make sure that when it's tensioned on the rifle, you won't have any snags or points of contact when the reciever is torqued down.

Here's the video on this:

Accurizing the Mosin Nagant Rifle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlodtfeYpTA)

Another modification you can do to the stock is shimming it with cork, or another material. I'm not exactly sure on this subject, and I've only read a little bit about it. Can't find much through searching, but I can give you a description of what it's basicaly doing.

When shimming the stock, it's usually happening at the business end of the rifle, though sometimes it can be done behind the recoil lug as well, like stated in the quoted post from "Gun and Game" above.

What the individual will do is, after the shim-material is chosen, will place it at the very end of the stock, applying upward pressure to the barrel, or in the top-guard, applying down-ward pressure. It really depends on your rifle, every where I've heard. So I guess no two rifles are the same when it comes to this modification. So you can do this, or not, it's up to you. It might help.

This is pretty much all you can really do to the original stock to gain some accuracy. There are, I'm sure, other methods out there, but this is just a generalized guide, basically giving the reader an idea of what he or she could do to squeeze a little more accuracy out of their Mosin Nagant.

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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 20, 2012, 08:26 PM
Now we're going to move on to the action. I honestly haven't heard much, if anything about modifying the bolt. You could probably clean it up, and polish all the contact points for each individual bolt piece, but that'd just serve to ease cycling. Again, I've only heard of people doing this, never done this myself.

Part of the action that everyone loves to chide on so much is the trigger. It's too heavy. Too spongy. Whatever. Like stated at the beginning of this post, the rifle was built for conscripts, and the Russians weren't terribly concerned about trigger pull, just as long as it wasn't fifty-some-odd pounds.

Some people will lightly polish the sear and the firing-pin lug to ease trigger-pull. Yes, this usually brings some of the pressure required for break down. Some people also sometimes shim the sear-spring, placing a piece of metal between sear-spring and the receiver. I have done this to great effect, with my trigger-pull pressure dropping from somewhere northward of seven pounds down to about four-an-a-half. But what I also did was make myself a nice two-stage trigger in the process.

Here's how I made the two-stage trigger:

I rummaged through some tool-boxes and office supply stuff to find a large paper-clip and a piece of metal that had a loop and two ears (looks kind of like Mickey Mouse ears). I straightened out the paper-clip and wrapped it around my trigger-pin about three times. This is what the parts look like:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Mosin%20Nagant%20M1944/100_1528.jpg

What you're going to want to do is leave about an inch of paper-clip on each end of the coils so you can adjust the length to your rifle.

After you determine the length you're going to need, cut with some wire cutters. Install the pin into the trigger, pushing the pin through the make-shift spring coil you had just made from the paper-clip, and to the other side. Install your shim between the sear-spring and receiver, and tighten down the sear screw. Then, you're going to want to file, however much it takes, of the shim that protrudes into the magazine cut out. If you don't, it could cause feeding errors.

This is what this two-stage trigger set-up looks like in my Mosin M44:

http://i1097.photobucket.com/albums/g350/lj-mosinfreak-buck/Mosin%20Nagant%20M1944/100_1500.jpg

I will add more photos of this when I am able to, I just have the one of the finished product.

With this modification alone, I have cut down the size of my groups considerably. It went from about 6 MOA to around 3 MOA if I do my part. I plan on doing more to the original stock eventually.

Thanks for reading. Also, if you have anything to add, feel free. Maybe the Moderators can make this a sticky.

Tempest 455
May 20, 2012, 08:34 PM
I did the pillar bedding and stock bedding, both helped but a Timney trigger was probably the biggest change I made.

mgregg85
May 20, 2012, 08:40 PM
I'm very against sporterizing but I like modifications like this that are completely reversible.

Box'O'Truth did an article about corking the mosin stock to add a little upwards or downwards push on the barrel, kinda like a low impact bedding job. In their test it produced a pretty significant accuracy boost.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/edu63_2.htm

T Bran
May 20, 2012, 08:57 PM
Thanks LJ I havent found a nice enough example to suit me yet but when I do this will be very helpful.
I hope the mods see fit to sticky it but I saved it for myself as a refrence tool.
Troy

Joshua M. Smith
May 20, 2012, 09:30 PM
Hello,

Excellent writeup thus far.

Try these links:

http://www.smith-sights.com/instructional-videos.php

http://www.smith-sights.com/tips-and-how-tos.php

As well, try putting a slight bend in the sear, like this:

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/proper%20finn%20bend.jpg
From my discontinued roller trigger, the bend precedes it by many years.

Bending the sear like that changes where the trigger contacts it, and the pull becomes MUCH sharper.

Additionally, many people are selling Finnish M39 triggers and sears on eBay and Gunbroker. I've also seen some M24 triggers and sears... if you don't feel comfortable doing your own stuff, by all means, get one of these Finnish setups!

Regards,

http://www.smith-sights.com/resources/llc%20sig.jpg

Steel Horse Rider
May 20, 2012, 10:18 PM
One of the local gunshops here had a new shipment of Mosins with the laminated stocks in this weekend. They sure do look sharp. I believe that is a reason for me to purchase another one for my collection. I will probably try the trigger mod you described on my favorite 91/30 and see if I notice a difference as they are sure fun to shoot.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 20, 2012, 11:00 PM
It's always worth a try. I plan on adding more to this thread as I come along other helpful ideas. I will branch out into sporterizing options as well, but I'm going to stick mainly to the mil-surp configuration for those, like me, who prefer the Mosin in the military stock. Don't get me wrong, in my little stock business I am making stocks that are fashioned to look more like modern rifles, but in that stock business I've got going, the ability to return your rifle to mil-surp configuration is my main goal. Just drop in installation.

I'm glad you guys are finding this useful, I just wanted to gather all this information into one spot, even have other members help, as well, so that way everyone has the ability to get their best out of the rifle, and have a place to get all the information.

TurtlePhish
May 20, 2012, 11:18 PM
Very nice guide! Seeing as these are arguably the most popular milsurp in the country (maybe the world?), something like this can be very handy to a lot of people.

On these guns, pressure on the barrel generally has better results than floating them because of how thin they are.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 20, 2012, 11:28 PM
Here's a post I found on "Gun and Game" written by Joshua M. Smith. I think it will be good to add to this post as well, with the link as citation, or further reading (Please note that some of this has been discussed in my OP, but he uses some different techniques you could also try out and see if it's a fit for your rifle):

The first thing you want to do is smooth the barrel channel using an appropriate sized dowel rod or socket from a ratchet wrench, wrapped in 320 or so sandpaper. When you are done, you should be able to lay a straight edge along the barrel channel.

Next, cut cork, lay it in, and lay the barreled action into the stock. Observe whether the barrel lays flat. It may. Now, tighten the front and rear screws to about 50in-lbs. The barrel will probably raise the muzzle quite a bit.

Start placing cork material in the front and rear. You want the barrel to lay as flat as possible when the action screws are tightened.

And this is critical: You have made the barrel bed and handguard one with the barrel. You have a heavy barrel now, for lack of a better term. It's bad for harmonics when you attach anything to the barrel, so move the sling back, especially if you are like me and use the sling to shoot!

The Finns did something similar to this, and a lot of the time they would cut off the lower handguard. and let it just be on the barrel. This helped with any warpage due to temp extremes and they didn't have to be as precise with their shimming. However, I like the one rigid stock, even if it takes a bit more work.

I find with this done, I can hold about 1.5MOA, with most rounds in a 0.8MOA cluster -- with surplus ammo. Still working on getting set up to reload.

Now see, I like his idea here, and I think I'm going to follow his techniques here when I can get a 91/30 added to the collection. Here's the link to his "Gun and Game" post: Josh's G&G Post (http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/mosin-nagant/120181-accurizing-mosin-nagant-pt-2-a.html)

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 20, 2012, 11:36 PM
And thank you Turtle!

adelbridge
May 21, 2012, 10:58 PM
Lee Enfields used to be a dime a dozen like Nagants and before that it was Springfield 1903's. I am the proud owner of a 1903 that was modded for accuracy when they were growing on trees in the 60's and worth 1/3 what it should be.
Try all you want to make a 100 year old $100 rifle shoot well. After all the time and work you put into it you could have bought a new ruger or marlin that will shoot 1 moa or better.
Some one needs to explain to me how to free float a rifle with a banded hand guard.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 21, 2012, 11:25 PM
Lee Enfields used to be a dime a dozen like Nagants and before that it was Springfield 1903's. I am the proud owner of a 1903 that was modded for accuracy when they were growing on trees in the 60's and worth 1/3 what it should be.
Try all you want to make a 100 year old $100 rifle shoot well. After all the time and work you put into it you could have bought a new ruger or marlin that will shoot 1 moa or better.
Some one needs to explain to me how to free float a rifle with a banded hand guard.

I think someone missed the point of this post. It's a how-to guide. Please, let's refrain from arguing which rifle is "better."

The hand-guard can be floated, just as the actual stock can be. The outer edge of the the guard will still hold the shape around the barrel, and give some space.

Sent from my MP3/Hands-Free/Web-Browsing Device

headoftheholler
May 22, 2012, 02:13 PM
"Lee Enfields used to be a dime a dozen like Nagants and before that it was Springfield 1903's. I am the proud owner of a 1903 that was modded for accuracy when they were growing on trees in the 60's and worth 1/3 what it should be.
Try all you want to make a 100 year old $100 rifle shoot well. After all the time and work you put into it you could have bought a new ruger or marlin that will shoot 1 moa or better."

Consider for a second that not everyone wants to own the same synthetic stocked Marlin/Savage/Ruger. Accurizing and actually using a 100 year old rifle to hunt with or punch holes is much more satisfying to some.

HGUNHNTR
May 22, 2012, 02:22 PM
How many $$$ will it take in parts, tools and man hours are into this?

SleazyRider
May 22, 2012, 02:28 PM
Consider for a second that not everyone wants to own the same synthetic stocked Marlin/Savage/Ruger. Accurizing and actually using a 100 year old rifle to hunt with or punch holes is much more satisfying to some.
Thank you! My goal next season is to land a whitetail with my unmodified Mosin, and I'm glad there are some who can appreciate the allure. I will, however, forego the bayonet!

Franco2shoot
May 22, 2012, 02:41 PM
I read an account where WWII snipers "Corked" the barrels and I decided to give it a try.
Prior to any changes, at 100 yards, MY mosin kept shots within a teacup saucer plate so about 6" radius at 100 yards. There's the start point.

The "How to" is pretty simple, you take a wine bottle cork and slice it lengthwise trying to keep the slice thinner than a slice of salami. You need 3 pieces. Start by cutting the cork in half lengthwise then cut three or four slices. I picked the 3 that seemed closest in thickness. About 8"s back from the muzzle at the first band, cork goes in at the bottom sides and 1 over the top spaced about every 120 degrees. When you re-assemble the band will be tight and squeeze the barrel.

I also spent a lot of time cleaning the barrel with JB red rouge, and JB grey rouge (one is harder compound). After about 2 weeks of cleaning the length of the barrel and with the barrel corked I revisited the range. To my surprise, all shots (from a bench rest) were within an inch of each other. I quit trying to further accurize mine. Whether it was just luck or the shooting gods, mine is truely a 1 moa weapon. I wouldn't mind upgrading the trigger, but you know the saying, "if it aint broke don't f.... with it."

I think corking is easy and worth a try given my results.


KKKKFL

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 05:07 PM
Headoftheholler- it really is more satisfying hunting with 100 year old rifles than it is with modern rifles. I'm not sure how to explain it, but there's just something of an appeal to hunt with something that's stood the test of time.

HGUN- actually, most of these mods can be done for less than $10, though with glass-bedding being a little more expensive just by cost of materials. I can't tell you exactly how much money people have put into their rifles, but with a trigger job alone, taking all of maybe 15 minutes, just to take the action out of the stock, put in the parts I just found around the house, snapped a photo, and put the rifle back together. To me, the trigger was free because I already had the stuff laying around.

If you have a pop-can laying around, you can make the sear-shims out of that for nothing. It makes it easier if you have some materials around that can be re-purposed to do the same effect, but like I said, most of these mods can be done for less than $10, and that's a wide-margin, as I've seen some of these materials for less.

Franco- that's a sweet rifle you got there. Don't let that go. As far as modding the trigger, it really can't hurt much, other than getting used to the different feel. Might be able to squeeze more accuracy out of that rifle with a trigger job.


Sent from my MP3/Hands-Free/Web-Browsing Device

LoonWulf
May 22, 2012, 06:03 PM
Very nice information collection and write up LJ :D

I have bedded my rifles action with Marine Tex Gray (small size is 'bout $15 bucks for enough to do 3 or so rifles) available at Ace or any number of sources. It helped quite a bit, and if i hadnt done other stuff to my stock youd have never known it was modified.

A note on the sear shimming, be very carefull as the cocking piece has quite a bit of play. Check that it wont wiggle free of the seer before calling it good.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 06:25 PM
Very nice information collection and write up LJ :D

I have bedded my rifles action with Marine Tex Gray (small size is 'bout $15 bucks for enough to do 3 or so rifles) available at Ace or any number of sources. It helped quite a bit, and if i hadnt done other stuff to my stock youd have never known it was modified.

A note on the sear shimming, be very carefull as the cocking piece has quite a bit of play. Check that it wont wiggle free of the seer before calling it good.

I'm not even done, I've got an e-mailed article that I'm going to post up too, just waiting until I get to work.

Yes, when shimming, it's only safe it you stay within .04" or so of shim-work. But be careful anyway.



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Clark
May 22, 2012, 07:45 PM
I have been sporterizing Mosin Nagants for over 10 years.

The extractor relief cut is some extra work compared to Mausers or Rem700s.

I have changed my act a lot since this 2004 thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86049

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 08:05 PM
See, this is an excellent example of a bedding job, and while it's not as complete as the authors job in my OP, it does the job amicably. You don't actually need to fill the entire stock like the author of my quoted statements, something like the picture in Clark's link will do just fine.


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Joshua M. Smith
May 22, 2012, 08:32 PM
I have been sporterizing Mosin Nagants for over 10 years.

The extractor relief cut is some extra work compared to Mausers or Rem700s.

I have changed my act a lot since this 2004 thread
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=86049

Clark, I'm going to be off-topic here.

I'm looking at your sig line and am wondering if you went by Clark Kent on the old Shooters.com forum?

Regards,

Josh

Clark
May 22, 2012, 08:55 PM
The shooters forum was a long time ago.
All I can remember was Chris Farris of SWFA and Ken Marsh of the cheap scope page were there.
I can't remember who I was... probably just Clark, I know I have done Clark Kent backwards as handle somewhere.
74 years ago Clark Kent was named after Clark Gable and Kent Taylor.
61 years ago I was named after Clark Gable.
I have joined over 100 forums and been banned from 10% for hot loads, most of which have gone out of existence.
I don't have much memory left in my head, and I use the search functions on sites and in my own computer.

Joshua M. Smith
May 22, 2012, 09:49 PM
Ah, OK... I do believe it's you then. Does El Chivato ring a bell?

Josh

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 10:13 PM
Okay guys, I tried to upload the PDF file, but it was too large for the forum to do so. If you'd like the file, I can send it to you. PM me your e-mail address and I can forward it right along to you. It makes for a pretty interesting read, it's an article published in 1927 and talks about some of the things they did to Mosins way back then.

Some pretty cool ideas, and shows some pictures (very crude quality, mind you) of some of these modifications they talk about. It all looks very well done, and if you're interested in making a sporter out of a Mosin, well there's some inspiration in there for you. Just PM me your email, and I'll forward the PDF file on to you.

headoftheholler
May 22, 2012, 10:32 PM
Here's a peek at my current project sporter, and talk about accurate...
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF8918-1.jpg

TurtlePhish
May 22, 2012, 10:45 PM
That's beautiful bluing... And a Tikkakoski?

headoftheholler
May 22, 2012, 10:56 PM
When I'm done the purists are going to hate me.
But for a hunting gun, you can't argue with accuracy.
http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m15/larryslamps/DSCF8913.jpg

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 11:06 PM
Looking good, Head. Keep up the good work!

majortoo
May 22, 2012, 11:20 PM
When done properly, the Mosin Nagant was capable of superb accuracy. As I recall, the old
Soviet Olympic Team used them with considerable success. The Finns were pretty good with their version of the Mosin Nagant as well. Anyone have a link to some of their secrets?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 22, 2012, 11:30 PM
Josh Smith posted one of the Finn's secrets, it requires a little bending of the sear spring.

TurtlePhish
May 23, 2012, 12:19 AM
Another one of their secrets was wrapping 5-6 cm of the barrel under the handguard beneath the front band with oiled cloth.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 23, 2012, 12:26 AM
Another one of their secrets was wrapping 5-6 cm of the barrel under the handguard beneath the front band with oiled cloth.

Never heard of that one. Know how it's done, exactly?

War Squirrel
May 23, 2012, 06:20 AM
Here's a few guides from an old Russian competition shooting book that a fella uploaded on the internet long ago. I figured they'd come in handy sometime.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii6/Timespace_Jill/beddingillustrated.jpg

This here shows where the rifle needs to contact the stock.
An old trick was to use felt (modern polyester felt works as well) that had been soaked in linseed oil and then inserted at these points where the rifle needed tight, firm contact. When the oil dried up, the felt would become extremely hard and would fill any gaps between the stock and action. The felt would also "stick" somewhat to the wood preventing it from shifting. Reversible and functional.
The bottom shows oiled felt being wrapped around the barrel to hold it firmly between the handguards, improving harmonics. The location of the felt may need to be adjusted, but once properly tuned the rifle should shoot much better. This is equivalent in function to the aforementioned "corking".

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii6/Timespace_Jill/1.jpg

This shows a technique for removing pressure points on the barrel by using the sharpened lip of a spent casing to shave away any contact points in the stock.

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii6/Timespace_Jill/2.jpg

This demonstrates locations to file to remove contact from the stock nose cap, if this is an issue.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 23, 2012, 03:37 PM
Awesome addition! I'm still doing my research to find more info.


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Shytheed Dumas
May 23, 2012, 04:59 PM
I'm just starting my own MN sporter for my Kentucky elk hunt next December. Great thread - subscribed!

caribou
May 25, 2012, 03:46 AM
Well, what can you say, Im a Mosin User myself, tizz my daily companion.

I use an M-39 as guys here probably know, and before I ever had to touch a rifle, other than in maintainace, to start with , I tighten the action screws and take it out for a test fire.

Of the three pillars to accuracy, I knock off the first two BEFORE I do any sort of improving.

I have the skills to make accurate shots, no flinching, no closed eyes, check out the trigger and the point of impact and see what I might do to improve my stance, hold, to use the sling or not and shoot at various range's.
At that time I shoot from the available ammo I have, and try different production years and countries of origin, as my M-39 loves 70's Russian and 50's Czeck, and the results in accuracy are worthy of my bi-athalon high school days scores.

Lots of practice, with pellet guns to the Mosin its self are used to sharpen and perfect your shooting skills until they are no longer a factor, I pay more attention to the ammo and finding consistent ammo at that. The closer in consistency with FPS variations the more tighter and predictable the groupings the ammo will make.


If I cannot achieve excellent results with various ammo, a basic check over and action tightening, THEN I start to do the things I need to do to achieve better results with changes and additions....................., but a first go around with your rifle will tell you many things about it and at least establish a 'base line' to measure your improvements from, and to be sure they are not actually causing you to lose accuracy or makeing it a dangerous tool.

Still, only accurate rifles are interesting, and this is the time to get a Bargain Rifle with bargain priced ammo. NO "Cheap" by any means, a Mosin Nagant will shoot up to any shooters skill, the quality of ammo and how well its taken care of. Indeed, a tweek and a carefull tuning can get better results, if its not allready there, but be sure to see if it isnt allready for ya :D My M-39s have only once needed work, and 3 shims under th action (I belive they must have been there before and fell out on a previous owner) and its a tack driver.

Mosin Nagants can be as accurate as any other rifle on Earth, too bad we couldnt ask Simo Hayha :D

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 25, 2012, 06:12 AM
Well said, Caribou. One of the best accurization techniques to impart on your Mosin rifle is learning the rifle through and through. But more importantly, being able to shoot, without flinching, or letting the other bad habits get to you, will work wonders.

But after all the apropos techniques are in place, and the shooter fully understanding what he or she has to do to make the rifle hit its target consistently, should that shooter really start tweaking the rifle's performance. All of these accuracy tuning methods won't mean anything in the world if the shooter isn't capable by themselves.

Consistency, consistency, consistency. The shooter must do the same thing every time, up to and including pulling the trigger the same way. This is where a trigger modification comes in.

Very good point on ammunition as well. Consistency is a big factor there, as well. If you're able to find bullets that work for their larger bores, reloading can get you pretty consistent as far as the ammunition part goes.

Anyone else have something more to add? I'll be scouring the web, tuning in to my google-fu, to find more tuning techniques.


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TurtlePhish
May 25, 2012, 11:16 AM
Don't be afraid to have a target crown put on it. My Mosin as received had slight damage to the crown, probably from wartime.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
May 31, 2012, 02:43 PM
Sorry guys, haven't been on the search for a while, been busy. I'll try and do a video showing how to do the trigger job the way I did it to help others who would like to do so.


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carbine85
June 3, 2012, 10:01 PM
Between my brother and myself we have 5 Mosins including the carbines. The accuracy of these things ranges from so so to sucks. If you plan on doing any serious shooting or hunting with one it pretty much requires accurizing. I have worked with reloads and changing powder charges in surplus rounds and achieved some favorable results, however the rifles need work. The 2 things that you can't change are the poor quality of the barrels and the limitations of the round. I hate defeat and enjoy the challenge so these rifles are the perfect challenge for me. I don't feel bad at all modifying one.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 3, 2012, 10:26 PM
That's why I started this thread. Wanted to find all the accurizing know-how and make a compilation of it.


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michaelbsc
June 4, 2012, 02:45 AM
I hate defeat and enjoy the challenge so these rifles are the perfect challenge for me. I don't feel bad at all modifying one.

I just picked up a couple of these. They're clearly going to keep me entertained - relatively cheaply - for quite a while.

So I'm not going to take out the zombie army at 2000 meters. Yeah, well I'm not going to get called by the Pentagon to come help them on their next weapons development project either. So I'm going to tinker with these until I get bored with them.

By then they'll probably be good enough hunting rifles for some of the neighborhood kids. And I'll have been entertained for a few years.

It's cheaper than horses.

SleazyRider
June 4, 2012, 08:26 AM
I'll try and do a video showing how to do the trigger job the way I did it to help others who would like to do so.


Looking forward to that! Thanks in advance!

pubb
June 4, 2012, 10:00 AM
Nobody's said it yet, but a decent scope mount will tighten up groups a lot. In many cases, it is reversible (I am going with the S&K mounts) and some still allow you to use iron sights.

P

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 4, 2012, 03:43 PM
Looking forward to that! Thanks in advance!

It will probably be put up next week, hopefully.

And yes a scope and mount can help. Thanks for the contribution.


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danweasel
June 19, 2012, 04:08 PM
I just got my first Mosin on 3 days ago. It's a '43 91/30. Is the trigger supposed to be loose? It flops about a half inch front to rear with basically no resistance but other than that it functions fine and doesn't scare me or anything. Just thought I would ask here instead of starting up a new thread. Besides, I wanted to say;

GREAT THREAD!!!!

I am actually going to crack it off for the first time this evening, get a base line and then, most likely cork it (I like the "old-schoolness" of this a lot) and polish up and bend the trigger. I'll bed it too.

Did I mention how great this thread is?

Thanks!

TurtlePhish
June 19, 2012, 04:11 PM
I just got my first Mosin on 3 days ago. It's a '43 91/30. Is the trigger supposed to be loose? It flops about a half inch front to rear with basically no resistance but other than that it functions fine and doesn't scare me or anything. Just thought I would ask here instead of starting up a new thread. Besides, I wanted to say;


Yup, supposed to flop like that. No trigger return spring in the design.

Congrats on your new Mosin! They're really great rifles, a lot of fun. I love both of mine. Yes, this really is a great thread for a lot of people- Mosins are probably the most common milsurp out there as of right now. Get us some pics of your rifle! :) (Maybe on a new thread so as not to clutter up this one?)

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 19, 2012, 08:07 PM
I just got my first Mosin on 3 days ago. It's a '43 91/30. Is the trigger supposed to be loose? It flops about a half inch front to rear with basically no resistance but other than that it functions fine and doesn't scare me or anything. Just thought I would ask here instead of starting up a new thread.

Firstly, nice buy! And there are simpler ways to fix the trigger pull on these beasts, refer to my OP or post #2 for this, only need a really thin washer and a paperclip to make the spring out of. If you'd rather bend the sear-spring, be cautious and careful not to bend it too much.

GREAT THREAD!!!!

Thank you! :)

I am actually going to crack it off for the first time this evening, get a base line and then, most likely cork it (I like the "old-schoolness" of this a lot) and polish up and bend the trigger. I'll bed it too.

Again, I gave my concerns, but as far as everything else, be sure to post in this thread with your results. Or cite this thread in a separate post if you choose to do another one, so others can know where you got the ideas! :D

Yup, supposed to flop like that. No trigger return spring in the design.

Turtle has the right of it. Wasn't designed to have a return spring, but using a paper-clip is an easy way to make one, again, reference OP or Post #2.

Yes, this really is a great thread for a lot of people- Mosins are probably the most common milsurp out there as of right now. Get us some pics of your rifle! (Maybe on a new thread so as not to clutter up this one?)

Or at least pictures of the modifications for demonstration. And maybe a before and after target :)

wristtwister
June 19, 2012, 10:43 PM
Speaking of things you can do with a Mosin... That's my friend Mark holding mine...

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 19, 2012, 10:50 PM
Very nice, I like that way that turned out. It's pretty need, and I assume that the barrel has been to Teludyne Tech?

caribou
June 20, 2012, 02:29 AM
Beautifull work on that Mosin!!

Im not a muzzel brake kinda guy, but the other 99% is AWSOME!!

You throwing heavy slugs really far?? I would .......:D

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 20, 2012, 03:57 AM
I would be, too!


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FenderTK421
June 20, 2012, 04:07 AM
Best way to get better accuracy for under $300... buy a Mauser :neener:

danweasel
June 20, 2012, 02:03 PM
OooWee!

I shot my "before" last night. 5 shot group from 50 measured meters (I am having some really weird eye problems...) and was pleasantly suprised to say the least. Sorry but I am gonna have to describe it instead of post it. I can't post pics from here...

1 1/2 inches top to bottom. and only 3/8s side to side. The thing is there is one hole with 3 rounds and the other two shots directly above that. I may have a good one here...

I am gonna definitely post the before and after pics and some accurizing pics too but it will be a few weeks. I have family coming for a visit.

Thanks for everything, especially the feedback on the trigger. The looseness didn't bother me at all so I will probably leave that alone, at least at first. I am just not a trigger guy, I guess.

I'll be back.

TurtlePhish
June 20, 2012, 03:36 PM
1 1/2 inches top to bottom. and only 3/8s side to side. The thing is there is one hole with 3 rounds and the other two shots directly above that. I may have a good one here...


That's one good barrel, and great shooting. Cork it and I bet it tightens up the top to bottom spread.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 20, 2012, 08:03 PM
That isn't bad at all. But with a lighter trigger pull and a corked stock that could help squeeze the groups even tighter. Plus side is, both mods are easy enough to do.

wristtwister
June 20, 2012, 11:36 PM
Yeah... that gun started out as a joke. I bought the gun and left it standing against the door at TTI. As I walked out, I said "we ought to do a project with that Mosin"... when I came back the next day, Al had cut 9 inches off the barrel and put on a straightjacket.
I thought the wood on it was too good to chop up to accomodate the tube diameter of the bull barrel, so Mark (who had some wood at home) said, "no worries... we'll make a stock for it. We cut out the bench stock and kept certain features of the Mosin so you could recognize it as one.
Once we had gotten that far, I said "I'd like to mount a scope... and not a scout scope, but a "real" scope... " so we moved the bolt behind the action, and put a scope bridge over the action so I could mount optics.
When I shot the gun a few times, I decided to smoothe out the trigger, so I flattened a .45 case into a brass plate and slipped it up under the trigger to make it act like a single-stage trigger.
It was fun to do, and took three of us working about 30 hours over a weekend to create the first "Mosin Olympic" made onsite at TTI. After finishing it, I mounted one of those really expensive $95 6x24x50 Field and Stream scopes from Dick's sporting goods on it, and took it shooting.
Using commie copper wash ammo, it shot about 1 1/2" groups @ 100 yards. Using Silver bear, they tightened up to 1" using 203 grain @ 100, but stayed consistent at 300 using 174 grain Silver Bear ammo. Using my "home cooking", it's shoots dime groups at 100 with no trouble, which is under 1MOA... the best group so far was a 3 shot group shot when the range was closing, and I had already pumped 100 rounds through the gun in an hour... I can cover it with a dime...:D

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 28, 2012, 08:11 PM
I just wanted to share with y'all something I did for a friend today. He just picked up a Mosin not too long ago, a '43 Izzy 91/30 (looks BEAUTIFUL under all that shellac, but don't worry, he's gonna have me refinish it the way I did mine, he thought mine was beautiful). He's satisfied with the rifle, but didn't care for the heavy trigger.

So, as you could probably surmise, I did the trigger-job that I posted earlier in this thread, and if you could have seen his face when he tried it out, you would have laughed. He loved it. Raved about it. He's going to go and shoot it now to see how well it does for his grouping, but I just thought I'd share. I'm probably going to end up doing two more jobs on his friends M44 and 91/30, so...

meanmrmustard
June 28, 2012, 08:44 PM
This should really be a sticky.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 28, 2012, 09:38 PM
I would like it to be, but it's at Moderator's discretion.

Clark
June 28, 2012, 10:36 PM
When most people talk about trigger jobs, they talk about:
1) take up
2) force to release
3) over travel

Unless it is a target trigger, I leave the first and last alone.

In the case of the Mosin Nagant, I think there are two prudent ways to go:
1) Bend the sear to reduce the force to release is as low as possible and still have consistent sear - cocking piece full engagement. This should result in ~ 2.5 pounds force to release.
2) Pay $100 and get a Timney with a built in safety.
Adjust per my drawing to 1.5 pounds force to release.

http://i757.photobucket.com/albums/xx220/ClarkM/Timneywithallenwrenchesandinstructions8-15-2011.jpg


My 26 second video about that trigger. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iSmvBGYFUK4)

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 28, 2012, 11:00 PM
Simple trigger that does what it's supposed to for materials laying around the house. Yes, if I could afford a Timney just to throw at the rifle, I'd probably put one on, but I can't see myself spending so much when I can get similar results, minus safety, for so much cheaper.

taliv
June 29, 2012, 12:27 AM
so... i'll add it to the rifle reading library

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 29, 2012, 12:44 AM
Many thanks, Taliv. I'll be looking for some more little tricks, and see if I can come up with some more of my own.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 29, 2012, 12:47 AM
Also, I may have forgotten to add, that in doing this little return-spring mod, I managed to have a good way to retain that pesky trigger pin, meaning, if done properly, no more need to worry about losing this pin.

taliv
June 29, 2012, 12:48 AM
sure, and feel free to recommend other threads for the library... and to direct n00bs to it when answering oft-repeated questions

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 29, 2012, 12:53 AM
Will do. There's so much info on the internet, I've been having issues finding more new stuff to add. I think it may be necessary to reach into the "Custom" realm, as well.

Welding Rod
June 29, 2012, 01:57 AM
I was shooting my CMP Special Garand in a match last weekend and got beat by one point by a guy shooting a Mosin. I scored 292/300 v. his 293/300.

He said he paid $50 bucks for the Mosin.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 29, 2012, 01:59 AM
Very nice! Though sorry you lost, guy.

meanmrmustard
June 29, 2012, 06:49 AM
I was shooting my CMP Special Garand in a match last weekend and got beat by one point by a guy shooting a Mosin. I scored 292/300 v. his 293/300.

He said he paid $50 bucks for the Mosin.
Bummer. If its any consolation, he beat you only by a point. He was probably sweating bullets...pun intended.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
June 29, 2012, 08:40 AM
Especially if he knew the spread before his last round.


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mookiie
July 1, 2012, 12:37 AM
Lj-mosinfreak-buck - great trigger job piece and awesome article! I just polished the sear and trigger surfaces you recommend and that took and 8 lb pull to 5 lb and I can definitely get it better! Thanks again for the great info!!!

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 1, 2012, 12:46 AM
You're welcome, good sir! The point of this thread is easy to do modifications that are very cost effective. I take it, along with the polishing, you did the spring and shim, as well?


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Centurian22
July 1, 2012, 12:59 AM
Tagged for later refernence. Hoping to get a Mosin soon. LGS has a deal for rifle and 440rds of mil-Surp ammo for $199, sound like a good deal?

TurtlePhish
July 1, 2012, 01:02 AM
Tagged for later refernence. Hoping to get a Mosin soon. LGS has a deal for rifle and 440rds of mil-Surp ammo for $199, sound like a good deal?


If you factor in what shipping would cost otherwise, yes, good deal. Ignoring shipping, it's a tad high. Mosins can be found for as low as $90, and a 440rd can is around $85-$90. Shipping on both can be expensive, though.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 1, 2012, 01:06 AM
I paid $164 for 880 rounds. Factor in $35 for shipping, I paid $197 total. Got it from Lucky Gunner (www.luckygunner.com). Ordered this past Sunday, got here Wednesday. Sounds like a far better deal than $199 for 440.

mookiie
July 1, 2012, 01:19 AM
Lj - I didn't do the shim or spring yet I just wanted to see what kind of affect polishing the sear could have, and to be honest I didn't do a good job polishing the sear so I can't wait to get it all done! (had back surgery two months ago so I can only work at a few minutes at a time)

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 1, 2012, 01:22 AM
Lj - I didn't do the shim or spring yet I just wanted to see what kind of affect polishing the sear could have, and to be honest I didn't do a good job polishing the sear so I can't wait to get it all done! (had back surgery two months ago so I can only work at a few minutes at a time)

It seems to have worked then, the surgery? And I hear ya, just take her easy and slow, don't wanna over do it!

mookiie
July 1, 2012, 04:48 PM
Alright, Fiddled with it more today and was able to get it down to a smooth 4 lb break. Couldn't be happier with the trigger, now I am going to start on my other 91/30 and my M44! Thanks again for the info.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 1, 2012, 06:05 PM
Nice! Good to hear!


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Centurian22
July 2, 2012, 01:14 AM
LJ: The $199 mentioned in my earlier post was for the Mosin Nagant rifle AND 440 rounds as a package deal. Hopefully they have the deal for a while until finances improve. Would love to pick one up.

WardenWolf
July 2, 2012, 02:18 AM
I may wind up corking my Mosin's barrel. The primary reason is that my upper handguard keeps migrating forwards under recoil (even with new barrel rings and retainers) and a little extra spacing will help that. Any accuracy boost is just a bonus.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 2, 2012, 03:14 AM
Well then that is an awesome deal!


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LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 2, 2012, 03:15 AM
I may wind up corking my Mosin's barrel. The primary reason is that my upper handguard keeps migrating forwards under recoil (even with new barrel rings and retainers) and a little extra spacing will help that. Any accuracy boost is just a bonus.

Make sure you post pics up in this thread for us all to see :)

Been thinking about doing the same to mine, it has the same issue.


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TurtlePhish
July 2, 2012, 09:55 AM
WardenWolf, corking will definitely fix the issue. Mine is full-length corked and now it's actually very hard to take the barrel bands off. Absolutely nothing moves up front.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 2, 2012, 02:23 PM
I assume a hobby shop will sell the cork, or?


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danweasel
July 2, 2012, 02:46 PM
I started on mine this weekend.

I polished up the bolt some, and sweated out a ton of cosmo. Much more to go, I just got tired of it.

Then I went to work on the trigger. I polished the sear a bit and then put in a paperclip spring and a shim made from a washer. The washer was too thick, the rifle failed the drop test. I took the washer out but haven't cut up a beer can yet. The trigger pull isn't terrible though. I wonder if the sear got a slight bend while I was messing with it? Also, I think my spring needs more work-the floppiness is back after only 10-20 dryfires...

Next, I sanded out the barrel channel and checked it with a dollar bill. I used a 13mm socket wrapped in sand paper for most and a 12mm near the muzzle. I then took a big chunk of cork and cut some little pieces out and layed one under the barrel only, at the front band. I actually couldn't get the band on for anything with cork on the top of the barrel so I left it off.

The plan was to go shoot it yesterday but stupidly hot weather conspired to force me to head into the mountains and do some fishing...

Plan:

1. Take it down again and fix up the trigger the right way.
2. Shoot it with the bottom front corked only. This is how I saw it done on Box'o'Truth.

Questions:

1. Should I cork both bands? It feels a litle weird being tight up front and a little loose at the back band.
2. Do you think that the paper clip trigger spring being on one side of the stock under the tang affects the reciever seating? Probably not but I dunno.

The Future:

1.Bed with JB weld at the recoil lug.
2.Mess with different cork configurations.
3. Write shorter posts!
4. Learn to post pictures...

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 2, 2012, 03:14 PM
I have no issues with my paper-clip. But I did use the thicker, larger ones, not sure what size you used. There are better spring-like materials you can use, but I used what I had laying around. I guess some kinds of alligator clip springs will work too. As far as I know, it doesn't affect the way the receiver sits in the stock if cut it short enough.

I haven't gotten to corking mine so I don't know about that. I'm pretty sure it's just around the front band.


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danweasel
July 2, 2012, 05:28 PM
I thought I was doing it wrong... Will fix.

Do you have to have photobucket (or the like) to post pictures? I mean, is there anyway to post a pic to THR without signing up for something?

Oh, I got my cork from a crappy bottle of wine.

mookiie
July 2, 2012, 05:51 PM
LJ - I assume a hobby shop will sell the cork, or? i Found cork gasket material that seems perfect on amazon.com.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 2, 2012, 07:42 PM
I use photobucket, been using it for years.

Mookie, I'll look into that.


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carbine85
July 2, 2012, 08:50 PM
I have done several trigger jobs on the M44 and 91/30 in my quest to find an accurate rifle.
A couple of things I have found are: The added trigger spring doesn't really do anything. You should always take up the slack before you squeeze off a round.
Paper clips are too soft and loose tension with use.
A slight bend in the sear spring works real well. No need to play around with shims unless you have some around.
Lessen the angle of the trigger spring catch and adding a slight curve to it works well.
Polishing surfaces with a dremel and compound lessens creep.
This is basically what the Russians did.

headoftheholler
July 3, 2012, 09:08 AM
For my Mosin sporters that I intend to hunt with I have always replaced the trigger and sear with Finn trigger/sears. Works for me well. Above all if you want shot after shot repeatability it is important that you learn your rifle and trigger by shooting it a lot. I can pick up my M44 or my Finn sporter and I know exactly what to expect and when/where to expect the trigger to break.
I've always wanted to shoot one though with a huber or timney.

WardenWolf
July 3, 2012, 08:52 PM
This seems to be the best deal for cork I've found: http://www.h-oproducts.com/cart/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=99&idcategory=29

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 3, 2012, 08:55 PM
Thinkin' I'll be corking mine here pretty soon, once this M&P15-22 gets figured out, lol.

Steel Horse Rider
July 3, 2012, 08:59 PM
Hobby Lobby is a good place for sheet cork. It is usually available in various thicknesses and sizes. I probably have enough to do a hundred Mosins for a few bucks. Ask your wife if she has a coupon, they are always publishing a 40% off coupon somewhere. Hobby or craft stores in are usually a good place to find odd things you need.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 3, 2012, 09:02 PM
Ask your wife if she has a coupon

Single and proud of it! Lol. I could go and look around, though.

danweasel
July 5, 2012, 11:28 AM
I shot mine with the cork. If anything, it's worse... more to follow after I mess with the location and thickness of the cork..

I did shim my trigger with a beer can. That and polishing up the trigger assembly was a nice improvement.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 5, 2012, 04:27 PM
Very good on the shim. Sometimes those corks have to be experimented with and find out the precise location through trial and error.


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carbine85
July 6, 2012, 02:14 PM
You can get the cork from places like Autozone. Ask for gasket material.

danweasel
July 9, 2012, 11:24 AM
That's what I went out and bought. Enough to cork 100 Mosins for a few bucks.

Also, I will be shooting mine again tonight. I Moved my cork forward, added cork to the top handguard and also shimmed my recoil lug and tang, all following the instructions on the Smith-Sights website. I went with the "1 year later" article as a guide.

I will let you guys know.

danweasel
July 9, 2012, 11:51 AM
Double post.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
July 9, 2012, 07:55 PM
Looking forward to it.


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danweasel
July 10, 2012, 11:28 AM
Damn I am unreliable...

When I shoot it I will definitely let you guys know. Just been getting really busy lately. The thing is, it looks and feels good. I am excited.

Centurian22
August 4, 2012, 05:42 PM
I put this in the 'mosin club' thread but thought it might be better posted here for the cork questions.

I have a couple questions: if I am reading correct info from www.7.62x54r.net, it would appear that if the bolt, magazine floorplate, and buttplate do not have the 'prefix' letters found on the barrel (two in my case) then it is a 'forced match' done (most likely) by the refurbing armorer? Also had a couple questions about 'corking' the barrel: for those who have done it have you corked the whole length of the barrel? Or just played with small pieces in certain locations until accuracy improved? Also I saw an idea posted somewhere about using cookware grade silicone (like from one of the rubber baking sheets), anyone tried or have input on this idea? It would seem like a good alternative to cork as it would not absorb moisture, and is heat resistant but having no experience with this process myself I wanted to ask the 'experts'.

Thanks!

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 4, 2012, 06:36 PM
The easiest way to tell of a part has been force-matched is if the SN has been electro-penciled in. Though in some cases, they would strike out the previous SN (numbers with a line you through them) and put a new SN on in the area around it.

As far as corking, that is your call as to where you place it. It's like these rifles have a mind of their own, and you have to find the proper location or combination of locations that your rifle likes best. Further back in this thread I believe it gives a general location, I believe it's something like an inch or two always from the barrel-band closest to the muzzle. Different spots on the barreled action can be corked as well.

ETA: Keep in mind, your rifle may also benefit from free-floating. Each rifle is different, they like what they like. It's an on-going experiment, so enjoy :).

As far as the silicone sheets go, I couldn't tell ya, though doesn't sound like a bad idea. Maybe you can be the first, provided the Significant Other doesn't mind you tearing up one of these. Lol


~On The Road Again...~

Centurian22
August 4, 2012, 07:33 PM
LJ: See this is where I am a little confused. First I will state I have only seen pictures of my new mosin as I am away at work right now. But, from the pictures and description all four serials appear to be stamped there are no strike-throughs and I see no obvious signs of grinding. The only place I possibly question grinding is on the bolt and I'll have to wait until I see it in person to get a closer look. The only thing electro-penciled is:
"M91/30 Russia 7.62X54R
C.A.I. Georgia, UT
(new 10 digit SN)"
On the reciever, which would be from the importer (I think).

I'm trying to compare fonts of the stamps in the pictures I have, and they do appear different. The barrel stamp has an "ET" and a "l" style number 1 (just a straight line) in the three digit number; and the other three locations have a "1" with the 'tic' coming off the top (no bottom line).

As to the silicone I believe I will try it out, however I'll be buying one specifically for the project, much safer than crossing the wife (even though she NEVER uses it). Plus I'd like it in black not grey or red if possible.

Thanks for the input. Hopefully more will be along soon to chime in.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 4, 2012, 07:51 PM
I think the prefix is usually on the barrel and the bolt, but I could be wrong. Though they could be force-matched, my Mosin has the prefix on all the serialized parts


~On The Road Again...~

One_Jackal
August 4, 2012, 08:27 PM
Slipstream works real well on my Mosin-Magant 1930 Dragoon. The bolt is almost as slick as a modern rifle. Now the WD-40 has dried off the trigger group. I was able to clean and grease the trigger assembly properly. The stock trigger is acceptable when greased properly. I did go through a box of rifles to find the smoothest rifle in the box.

My rifle shot high with brown bear 203 grain ammo. I ended up taking a belt sander to the elevation slide to get the Dragoon on target. My Dragoon has not seen service since it was last refurbished. The receiver and bolt had not been cycled enough times to wear the machine marks off the contact points. I did clean up the contact points with Emory cloth.

The foregrip does not appear to be the original. It appears to be a well worn replacement - at least the the armory used another pre-war foregrip.

I was pleased with the performance of the 203gr bullet. The Mosin-Magant will hit a paper plate every time at 150 yards with open sights. It is going to be a welcome and often used addition to my hunting line up.

The serial numbers match completely on my Mosin-Nagant.

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e253/DTL_03/mosinweb.jpg

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 4, 2012, 08:55 PM
Beautiful rifle, sir. Plan on doing any of these accurization mods?

One_Jackal
August 4, 2012, 09:20 PM
The rifle shoots well as is. I am not one to fix things that are not broke.

My previous post was for the Mosin club thread. got into the wrong thread. I did accomplish something here. I helped prove that the right ammo improves accuracy. :)

TurtlePhish
August 4, 2012, 11:06 PM
Centurian22, those non-prefixed parts are force matches.

Centurian22
August 5, 2012, 02:21 AM
TurtlePhish: thanks for the confirmation. That's what I thought I was finding but I wanted to make sure. So for historical / story value among my friends: when they were force-matched like this, was it any indication that they made any effort to test, ensure fit, or safe tolerances or were parts just slapped together, stamped and "shoveled out the door"?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 5, 2012, 06:56 AM
They were made safe by the arsenal, brought back to factory spec.


~On The Road Again...~

michaelbsc
August 5, 2012, 07:26 AM
...was it any indication that they made any effort to test, ensure fit, or safe tolerances or were parts just slapped together, stamped and "shoveled out the door"?

There's no reason to doubt that the Soviet armory personnel were just as competent and professional as the Americans. They were, after all, preparing for a potential doomsday event that they, no doubt, hoped to survive. And if the rifle could take out one invader in the hands of a third tier reserve unit farmer/soldier then it would be doing its job.

In all likelihood the modern day American and Russian armory personnel - and probably Chinese - are currently packing away some now trailing edge technology just as carefully. And hopefully in 50 years our offspring will be washing it out of the cosmoline to take to the range!

Colonel Custer
August 5, 2012, 08:32 AM
Hi LJ any chance you could make a stock for an 1891 Argentine Mauser full size rifle?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 5, 2012, 05:25 PM
Hi LJ any chance you could make a stock for an 1891 Argentine Mauser full size rifle?

PM me and I can let you know, I still gotta call 45bthompson about fixing a stock for his


~On The Road Again...~

Centurian22
August 15, 2012, 12:01 AM
Had my first Mosin Nagant Range Day with my 1942 Tula 91/30.

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/CaptainChadB/928F9526-6247-4E66-A90A-1282ABD63B90-4389-000006F185AAB46E.jpg

My shoulder politely asked *me to stop after about 30-35 rounds (almost all fired from the bench). One of those shots, Just One was all it took, I forgot to snug the buttplate into my shoulder and just as the trigger broke I had barely enough to to think "oh *crap* *this is gonna hurt" and hurt it did.*

No significant issues with "sticky bolt", the case scratching that was an issue before seems to have worked itself out. I did have a few feed problems but I think these were operator error of loading the magazine. The rim of the round trying to chamber would catch on the rim of the next round under it causing the nose to dive and refuse to feed. It appears that I just need to make sure each round is stacked just forward of the one under it to prevent this.*

I did experience the forward shifting of the wooden top foregrip piece after firing a couple rounds as others have mentioned. Guess I'll have to try corking it to tighten things up a little.

Had one split case neck:

http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/CaptainChadB/6A23E9D0-9D0C-423C-8B23-892DD2D9FEBC-4933-00000813766481D1.jpg

Is this anything to be worried about or is it relatively common among surplus ammo?*

Accuracy was a little better than I expected given the apparent condition of the rifle; having been counterbored, and the bore being insanely dirty and horribly fouled when I got it. Held well at 25yrds and 50yrds and I think the drop off of grouping at 100yrds was more my fault as there was one good grouping of 3 and another of 2 with several inches between the two groups. Even with my glasses on, at 100yards the piece of printer paper I'm aiming at is mostly covered by the sight and tough to make out.

I'm already starting to have an internal battle with myself between keeping everything "traditional" or wanting to put a long eye relief scout scope in place of the rear sight. Most likely I'll keep it original and possibly try making some peep sight stickers for my glasses to try and improve my long distance iron sight shooting.*

Thanks for viewing and any input is greatly appreciated.*

caribou
August 15, 2012, 12:19 AM
Centurian 22, if thats Bulgarian ammo, the neck split is rare, but not uncommon.
As well, "Forced match" occured in all arsenals, in some, and electro pencil did the work, mostly in Russia, but further refurbishments were made by the Romainians as well, and the swacked the numbers on, but without the Crylic prefix's. Most all soviet block countrys used the Mosin, and most all were refurrbed and stored, the way they were referrbed and might vary in detail, and often the way it was done indicates who did it.

Gotta love all the little marks....:D

foghornl
August 15, 2012, 12:29 AM
I have seen those neck-splits with Albanian ammo, too.

Lotza good tips here about improving your Mosin-nagant.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 15, 2012, 01:34 AM
I did have a few feed problems but I think these were operator error of loading the magazine. The rim of the round trying to chamber would catch on the rim of the next round under it causing the nose to dive and refuse to feed. It appears that I just need to make sure each round is stacked just forward of the one under it to prevent this.*

This is an issue with the interruptor. If you stagger (or stair-step as it is sometimes called) the rounds, it will remedy this problem, but it means your rifle isn't functioning correctly. A slight bend in the interruptor/ejector will remedy this, though they can be easily replaced if you look around for parts. If the interruptor is working the way it should, you will never have an issue with rimlock.

I did experience the forward shifting of the wooden top foregrip piece after firing a couple rounds as others have mentioned. Guess I'll have to try corking it to tighten things up a little.


Corking will work for this, as well as tightening the groups a little if corked in the right areas.

Is this anything to be worried about or is it relatively common among surplus ammo?*

As far as I'm concerned, it's fairly typical in steel-cased rounds. Not every casing will do this, but steel isn't as flexible as brass is, and as it expands, sometimes you can get splits like you're seeing here. Mine does it every once-in-a-while and my Mauser does it pretty frequently with it's steel-cased stuff, too.

Lotza good tips here about improving your Mosin-nagant.

I guess I should say thank you, along with the other contributors to this thread. :)

Tempest 455
August 15, 2012, 09:46 AM
I've had the neck split with no problems.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 15, 2012, 04:11 PM
I've had the neck split with no problems.

What you should really worry about is correct firing pin protrusion. Mine was too far out once and punctured primers. I've had gas come back in my face a couple times (wasn't wearing glasses, but thankfully there was a strong cross-wind and blew most of the particles away before they could hit me, but those that did sure stung). I corrected the protrusion and never had another punctured primer.


~On The Road Again...~

Centurian22
August 15, 2012, 09:38 PM
LJ: Thanks for the heads up. Mine is at the top of the allowed specifications (.075-.095) at about 0.095 as far as I can tell. The primer strikes look good but I've thought of trying a half turn less (to keep the lines on the bolt... aligned) to see if that will still work reliably so that I am less likely to cause a punctured primer. Worse that could happen with it too shallow is a failure to fire right?

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 15, 2012, 11:16 PM
Well the pins hit the primer pretty hard, but there is a chance it'll hit too shallow to fire. Half a turn won't hurt anything though.

danweasel
August 17, 2012, 12:21 PM
Just a quick update:

I have been playing with my cork (hehe) for about 3 range sessions and I still haven't found the sweet spot. It's not any better or worse than it ever was...

I am actually going to pop my front sight out and send it to smith-sights soon. Both because my eyesight is crap and I can use all the help I can get but also as a kind of, "thank you"for the free and excellent info he has on his website.

Also, I went to buy a second 91/30 and they were sold out! I wanted to chop it down and put a LER scope on it. Man, they have had a rack of those things for YEARS...

Lastly, the only neck splits I have had were with Wolf ammo.

LJ-MosinFreak-Buck
August 17, 2012, 06:13 PM
Just a quick update:

I have been playing with my cork (hehe) for about 3 range sessions and I still haven't found the sweet spot. It's not any better or worse than it ever was...

I am actually going to pop my front sight out and send it to smith-sights soon. Both because my eyesight is crap and I can use all the help I can get but also as a kind of, "thank you"for the free and excellent info he has on his website.

Also, I went to buy a second 91/30 and they were sold out! I wanted to chop it down and put a LER scope on it. Man, they have had a rack of those things for YEARS...

Lastly, the only neck splits I have had were with Wolf ammo.

You could try putting some cork between the stock and the recoil lug/front action screw block to shim. That could help, too.


~On The Road Again...~

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