negligent discharge


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taraquian
May 20, 2012, 10:23 PM
Okay so I'm an idiot.:uhoh: Now that we have that out of they way I'll tell you what happened. My wife and I were talking about her shooting or lack thereof, she has fibromayalgia and has difficulty racking the slide. Upon returning home I went to my gun room and began racking slides to find the easiest one, then for comparison I picked up my HD weapon and racked the slide.

BANG! I honestly don't know what happened, my finger was on the trigger:banghead:but I do not know if I pulled it. If I didnt pull the trigger what happened? Should I change HD weapon until this is resolved? Or did my openimg statement sum it up?

Mostly I need to make sure this does NOT happen again. Any suggestions?

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Swing
May 20, 2012, 10:26 PM
Yikes!

You don't mention what the HD piece was, but assuming its a quality pistol, you most likely did indeed pull the trigger and the resulting "bang" occurred. Good reason to not put your finger on the trigger until its time to put lead down range.

That aside, everyone OK? Any LEOs show up?

22-rimfire
May 20, 2012, 10:30 PM
I would take that weapon somewhere safe (like out in the woods) and repeatedly rack the slide and use various scenarios until you are convinced the gun is safe, functions correctly, and is dependable. You need to figure out what happened.

On the discharge, stuff happens. Glad nobody was hurt.

I suspect your finger was on the trigger.

Mrcymstr
May 20, 2012, 10:32 PM
I think an important detail might be what exactly the weapon in question is. Personally since your finger was on the trigger my first thought would be a run of the mill ND. But you can run a function test like I (and I assume many others) do after cleaning and reassembly.

This is the list I do on my carry 1911 so the steps may differ depending on your weapon
*** triple check unloaded and visually and manually inspect chamber ***
1) rack the slide and dry-fire (or snap cap)
2) rack the slide, apply saftey, and pull trigger
3) disengage safety move palm away from grip safety and try to pull trigger with the grip safety disengaged
4) dry-fire and hold the trigger. While holding the trigger rack the slide

A similar dry test may ease your mind.

-------

Also your not an idiot, you screwed up but no harm was done so take it as a lesson. We can learn from our mistakes or beat ourselves to death over them. The high road lies on the former rather than the latter.

taraquian
May 20, 2012, 10:32 PM
No the police never came which concerns me a bit since I live intown. The piece is a Bersa Thunder380. It was my second gun ever and has never malfunctioned in the decade I havehad it. Pretty sure it was me but I have not been able to get to therange to try and recreate the event.

taraquian
May 20, 2012, 10:53 PM
Well the dry test wont work without snapcaps. Last round hold open was one of the features I wanted in that gun, never thought it would tick me off.

I am concerned about my proceedure. Perhaps my HD gun should not be on display (in a locked walk in gun room)? The room doubles as a safe room and is easily accessible via biometric lock. The magizines grip extension is painted red to denote its a hot mag and it has always been that gun that is kept loaded yet I still fired one off.

At least I know my saferoom is bulletproof ;)

Mrcymstr
May 20, 2012, 10:56 PM
can't you bypass the last round hold open by dropping the magazine out and leaving it out or is there something about the bersa I don't know about?

taraquian
May 20, 2012, 11:13 PM
The trigger disengages with themag out. However there was something odd, the safety seems to have developed a third position between safe and fire. I think it maybe time for her to go to a smith, I had already replaced the trigger spring and mag catch spring. I put about 50 rounds a month through it now but it was about 50/wk for the first fewyears.

Mrcymstr
May 20, 2012, 11:21 PM
The trigger disengages with themag out. However there was something odd, the safety seems to have developed a third position between safe and fire. I think it maybe time for her to go to a smith, I had already replaced the trigger spring and mag catch spring. I put about 50 rounds a month through it now but it was about 50/wk for the first fewyears.

Then I'll equip my proprietary dunce cap and sit on the corner.

On a side not maybe the new third position is 3 round burst :p

Hunter125
May 20, 2012, 11:22 PM
Not too sure about the Bersa, but the PPK recall that went down a few years ago was because in some odd cases the decocker would cause a round to fire. My dad's PPK automatically decocks when you rack the slide with the safety on, so in your experimentation you might try that.
Not sure if your Bersa behaves the same or not, but you might check into it.

Owen Sparks
May 20, 2012, 11:27 PM
It is a myth that the police will respond to an indoor gunshot like they do on TV. Anyone outside will not likely recognize the noise because it will sound like a dull thump. Insulation does a pretty good job of muffeling sound. I was once visiting a buddy in college who lived in a a cheap appartment when the guy next door had a ND with a .38 Special. I was physicaly no more than fifteen or twenty feet away from the shot but I did not recognize the sound and at the time I was a competitive shooter. It sounded like a kid had bounced a basketball off the wall or something. I never would have known what it was except that the neighbor came over to see if everyone was OK. He never did find where the bullet went.

WALKERs210
May 20, 2012, 11:31 PM
I have one of the Bersa 380's and thank goodness never an issue with it. I did have a semi-auto shotgun discharge once in a closed bedroom (killed an antique piece of furniture) while chambering a round turned out the firing pin was broke and it slid forward enough to set off the cap. One friend had purchased a rare .25cal semi-auto pistol when he racked the slide it went off, and he was not a run of the mill guy with a odd gun, possibley the best gunsmith I ever knew. Never did track down what caused that on to discharge. Most important is you or anyone else was injured.

taraquian
May 20, 2012, 11:44 PM
Mrcymstr, no cap required. I DID havemy finger on the trigger so I was not innocent. No one was hurt other than the fact my ear is still ringing. I think my son who was in the next room is going to be even better with his gun handling, he has in the past failed to check his chamber...don't think he will again.

Warp
May 20, 2012, 11:53 PM
What happened? You pulled the trigger on a loaded gun. That tends to happen when you use negligence in gun handling.

Keep your fingers out of the trigger guard.

Serenity
May 21, 2012, 12:00 AM
Thank you for coming in and ratting yourself out and leaving yourself open to comments; I appreciate the reminder.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 12:01 AM
Thank you for coming in and ratting yourself out and leaving yourself open to comments; I appreciate the reminder.

Also this.

Plenty of people to benefit from reminders out here on the internet.

Well, anywhere, really.

Rampant_Colt
May 21, 2012, 12:06 AM
ND aside, your wife should try using a revolver.. because there's no slide..

skeeziks
May 21, 2012, 12:12 AM
You don't need to take the gun into the woods...you don't need to recreate anything.
You didn't exactly "pull" the trigger.... Here's what happened: When you racked the slide, the recoil from the slide hitting home actually shoved the trigger into your finger.
It'll happen every time...if your finger is where it's not supposed to be.

toivo
May 21, 2012, 12:21 AM
My dad's PPK automatically decocks when you rack the slide with the safety on, so in your experimentation you might try that.

Not sure if your Bersa behaves the same or not, but you might check into it.
Yes, the Bersas will automatically decock when you rack the slide with the safety on. You might say that it never actually cocks: the hammer just follows the slide forward.

But I think skeeziks nailed it: Racking the slide is a fairly aggressive movement, and having your finger on the trigger while doing it is a recipe for ND.

toivo
May 21, 2012, 12:29 AM
dupe

taraquian
May 21, 2012, 12:34 AM
Skeeziks i think you have it. I have the gun apart and when in the "third" position the hammer wont strike. That just leaves my boogerminer as the culprit.

Thanks for the input and for not ridiculingme too much:D

skeeziks
May 21, 2012, 12:54 AM
Hey...we're only Human. ~ :o

But seriously.... We must all practice safe gun-handling. And when I say "Practice" I mean Drills...over & over again until it becomes automatic.

The "keeping finger off trigger 'til ready to fire" part is already taken care of...you'll probably never do that again....:what:

But if you can become practiced in NEVER letting the muzzle point in an unsafe direction, you should be ok.

Take Care & Good (safe) Shooting.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 12:59 AM
The rules are designed with overlap for a reason. Even though you follow rule #2, you still have to follow rule #3. All of them, all the time.

coalman
May 21, 2012, 02:15 AM
Okay so I'm an idiot. Now that we have that out of they way I'll tell you what happened. My wife and I were talking about her shooting or lack thereof, she has fibromayalgia and has difficulty racking the slide. Upon returning home I went to my gun room and began racking slides to find the easiest one, then for comparison I picked up my HD weapon and racked the slide.

BANG! I honestly don't know what happened, my finger was on the triggerbut I do not know if I pulled it. If I didnt pull the trigger what happened? Should I change HD weapon until this is resolved? Or did my openimg statement sum it up?

Mostly I need to make sure this does NOT happen again. Any suggestions?

Yes, you pulled the trigger with 99.9999999% certainty. Guns fire when the trigger is pulled. Avoid that unless desired. Keep your finger off the trigger.

An easy error some NDs make is failing to drop the mag. They cycle the slide then pull of the trigger, just as they've done many times before. But, a round is in the chamber because step 1 was not to drop the mag and step 2 was not checking the chamber. Those two steps would keep the ND from happpening. Confidence is a short step from carelessness.

One solution is a gun with a manual safety that stays on when the slide is racked. A Beretta comes to mind. The better solution is to keep your finger off the trigger though.

Sav .250
May 21, 2012, 07:09 AM
Valuable lesson learned.

MedWheeler
May 21, 2012, 07:21 AM
One other thing to remember about the Bersa: On some samples, mine included, if you slam a loaded magazine in while the slide is locked rearward, the slide will snap forward. This will, of course, chamber a round and leave the hammer cocked (if the safety is not on.)

JSpear
May 21, 2012, 09:13 AM
Glad everyone is ok, and thanks for posting, I always value a reminder on safety!

Ramone
May 21, 2012, 11:33 AM
Since I was very young, I have always 'double racked' an action when clearing a weapon. I never knew why- it was just what I was taught.

When I was in the USMC, a PL asked me why I did it like that- I told him I didn't know, but a senior NCO pointed out that if I racked it once with a magazine seated, I'd have one in the chamber- if I did it twice, I'd see (hopefully) the round eject, and know I was loaded instead of safe.

In years since, I have done just that, a time or three, and it has served me well.

kb58
May 21, 2012, 11:57 AM
...When you racked the slide, the recoil from the slide hitting home actually shoved the trigger into your finger. It'll happen every time...if your finger is where it's not supposed to be.
I agree that this is most likely the cause. The impact of the forward-moving slide imparts its momentum to the frame, jerking the entire pistol forward. If your trigger finger is resting lightly against the trigger, the pistol jerking forward effectively "pulls" the trigger.

BCRider
May 21, 2012, 12:43 PM
I'm late to the game on this but I'd like to second, third or fifth the idea that you learn to flag your trigger finger high on the slide whenever handling any gun other than when aiming it for a shot.

What you found occured with your ND is exactly why it's an instant DQ or warning leading to a DQ in an IPSC or IDPA match.

Learning to keep your trigger finger flagged out along the slide could also save you a perforated leg. I've heard of two accidental injuries caused by the shooter having their trigger finger still on the trigger when they holstered the gun. Conditioning yourself to flag that booger picker on the slide or out along the cylinder of a revolver all the time unless actually aiming for a shot could well save you the next ND running down inside your leg. And if you have a habit of using the inside of the trigger guard as a handy place to rest your trigger finger this could possibly happen all too easily.

Hell, since I got into shooting I even flag my finger in this way when carrying my power tools around. I didn't even notice I was doing this at first. But then I started doing it on purpose just to further condition myself into this rather good habit.

Claude Clay
May 21, 2012, 01:19 PM
mechanically a firing pin may go foward (depending on its taper, it may go w.a.y foward) and closing the slide with the slide stop or slinging it, if there is a round in the chamber it can fire.
this is usually caused in combination; old firing pin spring and gunked up firing pin channel.
the de-cocker on the bersa is mechanically blocking the firing pin so no troubles there---unlike a cz52 where they are know to malfunction.

so i ask you---how many rounds through it with the firing pin spring and how long since the firing pin channel was cleaned?

another reason for the --ease the slide, snap the trigger way to handle a semi-auto.

-------
as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

Mrcymstr
May 21, 2012, 01:21 PM
...
Hell, since I got into shooting I even flag my finger in this way when carrying my power tools around. I didn't even notice I was doing this at first. But then I started doing it on purpose just to further condition myself into this rather good habit.

^ ha I thought I was the only one. I've caught myself indexing on windex bottles too...

Warp
May 21, 2012, 01:52 PM
I index everything as well. Power tools especially. It's a good habit.

skeeziks
May 21, 2012, 02:03 PM
Quote= "as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded."
=======================================

Let me ask you.... if you picked up one of your guns without a rubber band, would you handle the gun any differently than you would a loaded one?
More specifically, I ask you...would the very first thing you do, after pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, be to open the action and visually check for an empty chamber and magazine?

I am totally against this idea of "marked" guns to identify whether-or-not they're loaded.
As far as we all should be concerned...Every gun is ALWAYS loaded, ALL the time.
It may seem like O.C.D. when I check the action again even tho I just checked it 10-seconds ago, but the repitition is good for the brain. We need to train the brain.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 02:29 PM
as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

Sounds like some rule #1 violations, if nothing else.

The way I was taught and trained you always treat every gun as if it were loaded. The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open. And every single time you pick it up, even if you just set it down on the table 30 seconds ago, you check it again.

kb58
May 21, 2012, 02:38 PM
I just realized that this is probably a perfect demonstration of how to "bump-fire."

Just not on purpose...

skeeziks
May 21, 2012, 03:02 PM
Quote= "The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open."

I feel there are No exceptions to this rule. Even if the action is open, and you know there is no possible way for the gun to go off, you still treat it like it were loaded for the purpose of "brain imprinting."
If we don't train our brains in this way (mine was trained before I turned 9) there may come a day when we are not aware which condition we are in at that time.
If our brains (and muscle memory) are trained to always do the same every time, then if it should ever occur that our weapon is loaded when we thought it wasn't, we won't have a ND.
This is how we avoid disasters.

aeriedad
May 21, 2012, 03:03 PM
-------
as for a loaded gun mixed in with others, for decades i've simply placed 2 ( 2 cause one could break) green rubberbands around the loaded guns. and a gun in a holster is loaded.

Let me ask you.... if you picked up one of your guns without a rubber band, would you handle the gun any differently than you would a loaded one?
More specifically, I ask you...would the very first thing you do, after pointing the muzzle in a safe direction, be to open the action and visually check for an empty chamber and magazine?

I am totally against this idea of "marked" guns to identify whether-or-not they're loaded.
As far as we all should be concerned...Every gun is ALWAYS loaded, ALL the time.
Sounds like some rule #1 violations, if nothing else.

The way I was taught and trained you always treat every gun as if it were loaded. The only possible exception is when you have personally checked the gun, both visually and physically, and the action is open. And every single time you pick it up, even if you just set it down on the table 30 seconds ago, you check it again.

If you had to draw in a self-defense emergency, would you unload, visually and physically check for an unloaded chamber, then reload before aligning your front sight on the bad guy? Or do you maybe carry with one in the chamber like most armed citizens do?

I understood Claude's reason for conspicuously marking his loaded guns was so that if he had to grab one in a hurry, and he had to know a trigger pull would make it go bang, he wouldn't have to do a function check or fumble with ammunition first. The holster or the green rubber band would serve as a reliable shortcut if he is consistent in this practice. Sure, treat them all as if they're loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency, you don't want to have any doubt.

Of course I could be reading too much into what Claude is saying, but if I were to do as he suggests, it could only be for the reasons I've stated here.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 04:13 PM
I feel there are No exceptions to this rule. Even if the action is open, and you know there is no possible way for the gun to go off, you still treat it like it were loaded for the purpose of "brain imprinting."
If we don't train our brains in this way (mine was trained before I turned 9) there may come a day when we are not aware which condition we are in at that time.
If our brains (and muscle memory) are trained to always do the same every time, then if it should ever occur that our weapon is loaded when we thought it wasn't, we won't have a ND.
This is how we avoid disasters.

You have to have exceptions to the rule. Long story short, in the real world it is quite impossible to always have a gun pointed in a completely safe direction.


If you had to draw in a self-defense emergency, would you unload, visually and physically check for an unloaded chamber, then reload before aligning your front sight on the bad guy? Or do you maybe carry with one in the chamber like most armed citizens do?

If I have to draw my carry gun in self defense I assume it is loaded and treat it as such. This perfectly follows what I posted (always treat guns as if they are loaded).

I haven't the slightest clue why you are asking this, or what point it is that you think you are trying to make.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 04:23 PM
BTW: Another exception to a rule is rule #3. "Keep your finger off the trigger and out of the trigger guard until your sites are on target and you are preparing to fire."

Well, there are times to dry fire guns, and there are times to pull the trigger in order to decock guns, both of which technically violate rule #3. But they must be done. So you triple-check for everything else so that even if they did fire, nobody would be hurt, and then you intentionally and technically violate the rule.

aeriedad
May 21, 2012, 04:58 PM
If I have to draw my carry gun in self defense I assume it is loaded and treat it as such. This perfectly follows what I posted (always treat guns as if they are loaded).

I haven't the slightest clue why you are asking this, or what point it is that you think you are trying to make.

It all relates back to Claude Clay's scenario in Post #31. If you have known-loaded guns with assumed-loaded guns (aka, probably unloaded), you might want to have an easy way to quickly identify the known-loaded guns(s) in case of emergency. You don't have that problem with your EDC because that's what it's there for. In an emergency, you don't want to reach into your safe (or walk into your safe room) and take too much time identifying which weapons are known to be loaded. Of course you assume every weapon is loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency you want extra assurance that your weapon is loaded. A holster or a green rubber band can help provide that assurance.

I don't practice this because I only have four handguns, and except for between strings of fire two or three Saturdays a month, they are always loaded.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 05:21 PM
It all relates back to Claude Clay's scenario in Post #31. If you have known-loaded guns with assumed-loaded guns (aka, probably unloaded), you might want to have an easy way to quickly identify the known-loaded guns(s) in case of emergency. You don't have that problem with your EDC because that's what it's there for. In an emergency, you don't want to reach into your safe (or walk into your safe room) and take too much time identifying which weapons are known to be loaded. Of course you assume every weapon is loaded in routine handling, but in an emergency you want extra assurance that your weapon is loaded. A holster or a green rubber band can help provide that assurance.

I don't practice this because I only have four handguns, and except for between strings of fire two or three Saturdays a month, they are always loaded.

Okay. That DOES make sense.

I'm with you, though, in that I don't have that problem because mine are all loaded, or they are in a location/condition where I would never expect to be able to pick them up and use them defensively (like the GP100 still in the range bag from today's trip, not yet cleaned and reloaded). Generally they are all loaded. (5 handguns)

EddieNFL
May 21, 2012, 06:53 PM
Well, there are times to dry fire guns, and there are times to pull the trigger in order to decock guns, both of which technically violate rule #3.

Not if you follow rule two.

WALKERs210
May 21, 2012, 06:55 PM
After reading this post and especially the handgun being a Bersa 380 I had to find out if mine might have a problem. I just went to the back 40 and did everything except for putting finger on trigger to see if the pistol would discharge. I tried removing the mag, took the safety off then reinsert mag, racked gun "OK" then I repeated process with the hammer fully back, safety off insert mag, racked "OK". Basicly I attempted to recreate possible cause but it never happened this time to mine.

Warp
May 21, 2012, 06:56 PM
Not if you follow rule two.

Yes, even if you follow rule 2. Breaking rule 3 is breaking rule 3. That is why we make exceptions. Absolutes usually don't work.

If you pull the trigger when you do not intend to fire, you have violated rule #3. Unless, that is, you make an exception and and put it outside of the rule. Dry firing a Glock, in a safe direction, in order to field strip it...that is an exception even though, technically, by the letter of rule 3, it is a violation. Same with decocking a cocked single action revolver or similar, or testing the function of a firearm after dis/reassembly.

THe Dove
May 21, 2012, 07:11 PM
my finger was on the trigger

Don't do that till you're ready for it to go bang...... Especially when you just want to rack the slide.

The Dove

taraquian
May 21, 2012, 07:14 PM
The truly bad part isthat the Bersa IS always loaded, and I checked the mag and chamber of the proceeding 4 guns. I also index but I place my finger on the OUTside of the triggerguard. Why I failed two rules at the same time on the only loadedweapon in the house is what drives me batty.

I have posted the 4 rules above my pistols and highlighted #3. As far as the weapon it is kept clean and in great repair,but I should probably replace therest of the springs given howmany rounds sheshad.

Or maybe I'll just by a new one:)

loneviking
May 21, 2012, 07:22 PM
The Bersa, Browning BDA and Beretta 84F can all be damaged by racking the slide with the safety engaged. That damage can include that midpoint between safe and fire. Get the gun checked at an authorized gunsmith asap!

Scout Dork
May 22, 2012, 06:47 PM
Thanks for posting. Makes me want to practice with a Beretta 950 .25 my Significant Other traded for my LCP.

Thankfully you didn't injure anyone, and at least you're not at the FBI HQ.
http://www.kvia.com/news/31099130/detail.html

EddieNFL
May 23, 2012, 12:47 PM
Dry firing a Glock, in a safe direction, in order to field strip it...that is an exception even though, technically, by the letter of rule 3, it is a violation.

So it was in a safe direction, you intended to pull the trigger and you still violated both rules? Interesting train of thought. I'm guessing you "knew" the Glock was empty before you pulled the trigger therefore violating rule one, also.

rcmodel
May 23, 2012, 12:51 PM
ND Video.
Check it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYvAxLX6OzE

rc

Warp
May 24, 2012, 12:08 PM
So it was in a safe direction, you intended to pull the trigger and you still violated both rules? Interesting train of thought. I'm guessing you "knew" the Glock was empty before you pulled the trigger therefore violating rule one, also.

Trigger being pulled with no intention of firing.


I'm guessing you "knew" the Glock was empty before you pulled the trigger therefore violating rule one, also.

You don't seem to be paying attention to the conversation. Another poster said that he felt there were no exceptions to the rules. I stated that there were some exceptions to the rules, and gave specific example. MY point is that dry firing a verified unloaded gun in a safe direction is an exception and not a violation in the same way that having a gun pointed at another person can be within the rules.

Example: All rifles/firearms are laid on a bench/the ground, facing downrange, unloaded, with chamber flags inserted/actions opens. Range is called cold. Nobody touches a firearm while shooters head downrange to deal with the targets. Guns are pointed at people, but it is not a rules violation. Because there are exceptions.

kb58
May 24, 2012, 02:38 PM
While completely true, having exceptions only confuses people, hence the absolute statement of "no exceptions." Of course there are exceptions no matter what we claim... I mean, how the heck do any of us clean our firearms?

It's like the rule about "never" driving on bald tires, yet nothing has better traction than a tire with all its rubber on the road - as long as it doesn't rain and the rubber's not worn through. That's just too much for people to handle, hence the "never" part.

skeeziks
May 24, 2012, 02:50 PM
Quote= "Trigger being pulled with no intention of firing."

When I place my finger on the trigger and pull it while dry-firing, I am not breaking any rules in any way. I have FULL intention of firing the weapon (dry-firing.)

Quote= "Guns are pointed at people, but it is not a rules violation. Because there are exceptions."

You are a little misguided here.... In this situation no one has pointed the muzzle of a weapon at anyone. When the people make their way downrange and put themselves in line with the muzzles, no one is touching the firearms. Therefore, there is no violation in any way.

Warp
May 24, 2012, 03:54 PM
When I place my finger on the trigger and pull it while dry-firing, I am not breaking any rules in any way. I have FULL intention of firing the weapon (dry-firing.)

You have FULL intention of firing the weapon, yet you do not expect it to fire (actually fire)?



You are a little misguided here.... In this situation no one has pointed the muzzle of a weapon at anyone. When the people make their way downrange and put themselves in line with the muzzles, no one is touching the firearms. Therefore, there is no violation in any way.

Pointing a gun in a direction that you know a person will soon occupy is allowed?

skeeziks
May 24, 2012, 04:22 PM
Quote= "Pointing a gun in a direction that you know a person will soon occupy is allowed?"

YES

Warp
May 24, 2012, 04:30 PM
Reasonable enough.

skeeziks
May 24, 2012, 04:56 PM
Quote= "Pointing a gun in a direction that you know a person will soon occupy is allowed?"

Actually, this is a loaded question....

We're not talking about manually pointing the muzzle downrange when other shooters are about to start heading down. That would be a violation of range rules (handling of weapons while range is Cold.)
We're talking about clearing your weapon and laying it down with muzzle pointed downrange after a cease-fire has been called.

EddieNFL
May 24, 2012, 06:21 PM
Example: All rifles/firearms are laid on a bench/the ground, facing downrange, unloaded, with chamber flags inserted/actions opens. Range is called cold. Nobody touches a firearm while shooters head downrange to deal with the targets. Guns are pointed at people, but it is not a rules violation. Because there are exceptions.

Faulty analogy; has nothing to do with dry firing. When a rifle is lying on a bench, YOU are not pointing it at anyone. If you want to be a to the letter literalist, the only way to not violate rule two is to never own a firearm. Think about spirit and intent.

EddieNFL
May 24, 2012, 06:24 PM
When I place my finger on the trigger and pull it while dry-firing, I am not breaking any rules in any way.

Exactly. That's why I use a sheet of amour when dry firing and a clearing barrel in the shop.

igousigloo
May 24, 2012, 09:27 PM
That is why chamber flags are inserted. If one or those are in every chamber then the range is cold.

Texan Scott
May 24, 2012, 09:51 PM
LOLd at finger-indexing power tools and windex bottles... me too! My dad first started the 'finger off the trigger 'till you're ready to use it' thing with me WITH A SKIL SAW when I was 10.:)

gtd
May 24, 2012, 09:57 PM
Taraqian, don't beat yourself up. If you handle a gun enough you will fire it off by accident once or twice.

I got a new Taurus and was trying to clean it. I was certain it was unloaded. To remove the slide, you must pull the trigger. (Bad design.)

Well, I followed the rule that says "always point the weapon down range in a safe direction." That's how it was taught to me years ago.

A little bit of spackle fixed the hole in my screen door, but my hearing was poor for about 4 days.

Except for my wife, everyone in my family who was directly above me argued there was no gun shot. The neighbors heard and knew it was a gunshot, but shrugged it off. It was a 9mm +P.

My wife asked, "Where's your father?" She came down, saw what had happened, and shrugged it off. I do love my wife!

But it can happen. I didn't sleep for three days worrying about it, but think of all the accidents you've had with every other tool you've used. Follow the rules of safety, and the accidents will be relatively harmless.

Glad you are safe.

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