[mwsenoj]

The home range I shoot at has a previously empty mobile home that is half way down and off to the side of our line of sight at the 400yd range. Lest I taint your opinion before you make it, I will hold off saying how far off to the side it is for now. So how far is far enough?

Note: you might answer this in yards or degrees. I have figured out both.

[spikedzombies]

some state laws require a certain distance from buildings or roads before your allowed to shoot, might want to verify with your local Leo or ranger.

"Sent via the Skyrim messenger service"

[Sport45]

a previously empty mobile home

Does that mean it's now occupied? What kind of barriers exist between the mobile home and the firing lane? Kids get around and they can pop up in places you don't expect.

[mwsenoj]

"Does that mean it's now occupied?" yup.

The area is open flat ground all around.

[Shadow 7D]

Berm it
then put in a range fan that blocks the line from firing anyway close to it

[mwsenoj]

Berm it
then put in a range fan that blocks the line from firing anyway close to it
A berm is not practical in this case. I still dont have an answer! :)

[General Geoff]

Rifle rounds will carry well over a mile.

If you mean how far off to the side is "safe," that depends more on angle from your firing line and not absolute distance from your target area. I wouldn't be comfortable with less than a 20 degree angle, and would be more comfortable with 30 or more degrees.

[Shadow 7D]

If you can berm it, can you narrow the firing line so that you can put a range fan that would prevent firing OFF the range by the furthermost spot?

look up the military idea of a range card and range stick, a range stick or whatever you care to call it is a physical stick, that when standing in the firing position stops you from traversing past it and hence out of your sector of fire. Think of the booths at a indoor range, the often have wings that block you from your neighbor and keep you on YOUR lane.

http://www.m2gun.com/fm-23-65-appendix-d-fighting-positions/

The down side is that they offer little other than a reminder to not point your gun THAT way, so short of a dug or similar shooing out of a bolt-hole or loup, where you have the narrow tunnel that prevents you from traversing off the range like this bunker,
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQF_UGBMbQ0KpxvSJJqYzJvFTmqq959T4sHAV_POjUFrWiWEtRb54xnlfHm note the echeloned (stepped) face so that the gunner can have a wider field of fire, which in your case you would be limiting, such as firing through a culvert (on a side note, you might want to investigate sound dampening or limiting techniques to prevent excessive noise)

[Old Shooter]

previously empty mobile home

Meaning currently occupied.

Unless the person living there is a member of your shooting group I think the best thing to do is to re-locate your ranges firing direction or go shoot someplace else.

[hardluk1]

This sould be a common sence issue. If you can see the trailer from where you shot ,then is viable rifle range any more. If you will not develope a brem from the traveler and safe wall by the bench area it is not safe to shot there.

[303tom]

If you can point a firearm at any building standing on the firing line, it`s too close...........

[Art Eatman]

Assuming a vacant building that's not in the line of fire, how could it be hit? Is some witch going to cast a spell whereby an MOA rifle has a bullet veer way off course? Make a 90º turn as it goes past?

[hardluk1]

Not Vacant now. That vacant building just out of the line of fire now has people liveing in and poop happens at times on the fireing line.

[Demos]

Art, I belong to an indoor range and there are gouges out of the concrete floor and walls and a few holes in the tables from people messing up and shooting where they were not supposed to. I'm sure all of those guns can hold nice groups too, but accidents happen and rounds did not end up going down range.
I would say your distance depends a lot upon what kind of shooting you are doing. If you are sitting at a bench, the building could be closer than if you were doing more "tactical" shooting. For a bench, I would want it at least 150 yards off the path of the range so that you have plenty of time to see someone leaving it before they got to your line of fire. Its also distance from occupied buildings you need to be to hunt in my state.

[mavracer]

Assuming a vacant building that's not in the line of fire, how could it be hit?
ric·o·chet (rĭk'ə-shā', rĭk'ə-shā')
intr.v., -cheted (-shād'), -chet·ing (-shā'ĭng), -chets (-shāz').
To rebound at least once from a surface.

[forindooruseonly]

A lot of it depends what you are shooting at too. At steel? Yeah, I wouldn't want them close at all. Paper with a wood frame is much more forgiving, but I still wouldn't want them close just because the potential for an accident - mechanical or human error.

No offense, but from your evasiveness on the distance, I'd say they are too close and you know it already. There's lots to think about in a case like this. If something happens, you know a lawsuit/criminal negligence issue is going to come up. Even worse, you'll have to live with the knowledge that a tragedy occurred at your range. Just IMO.

[CountryUgly]

Bring in a dozer and dig in if you can't haul in dirt to berm it. Several good pushes with the bucket ought to do it. Does said trailer have any holes in it from when it was empty from misguided rounds? IMO if you can see it the thing is is potentially in the line of fire and discharging a firearm there while that place is occupied isn't the best idea. If you can't put up a 10ft wall of dirt to hide it I'd have to call it quits till it's vacant again or some dirt is brought in.

[BCRider]

As mentioned by some already no one intends to shoot at anything but their actual target. That being said I have yet to see an indoor range that does NOT have a rather entertaining array of wall, floor and ceiling holes and gouges that are well out of the path of any possible target locations.

So I'm in the camp that says if you can see the structure anywhere within your peripheral vision while looking at your target then it is too close. You need a solid wall capable of absorbing any rounds or a berm.

[Haxby]

I know how I'd feel if somebody was shooting toward my house.

[Claude Clay]

might be work but can you move your firing line even to the now occupied dwelling?

have you spoken with them? they may want to play with you. or perhaps have it so that you phone them before you start. in CT the rule is not within 500 feet of a dwelling. but it is usually interpreted to be that the structures are 500' even with or behind the firing line.
id not feel kindly to someone throwing lead 200' off my back door. would you?

[Psa1m144]

Sounds like you need a new range. IMO, regardless of the local laws, if you can see it from the firing lane, it's not safe. Find a new place to shoot before someone gets hurt....please.

[Tinpig]

You might shoot forever and never have a problem. Or you might have a problem just the one time.
I'd find another range.

Tinpig

[drsfmd]

You don't have enough room to safely shoot anymore.

[rcmodel]

+1

If an occupied dwelling is anywhere in front of the firing line within 180 degrees, you are SOL.

rc

[HarcyPervin]

Very little detail here to make a decision on, so I'll put it this way. I'd not like to live in any place where I can see the "boom" end of a rifle as it is firing. You said trailer, which leads me to believe there might be wheels involved. I'd suggest putting those to use or finding a new place to shoot, or drastically upping any insurance coverage available.

[Robert101]

Door height is less than 7'-0" tall. Figure MOA from that dimension.
On a more serious response, REALLY? Shoot past an occupied house with a high powered rifle? If it isn't behind you then I'd say don't shoot past it.

[T Bran]

The most logical thing to do is to see if you could get together with the rest of your shooters and make an offer to purchase the property next door.
If that is a no go you need a new range.
Luck
T

[mg.mikael]

Seriously, don't have a camera? Just post some pictures and you'll save people the problem of speculating about your range layout, and not to mention get some clear cut answers.

I will hold off saying how far off to the side it is for now. So how far is far enough?


What? Is this a game or something just tell us how far the occupied dwelling is from your firing lane.

[essayons21]

An occupied building means there are people in it. You wouldn't shoot if someone was standing in front of the firing line, even if they weren't directly in front of you. Makes no difference if they are in a mobile home.

Also if a round goes into an occupied dwelling, in most states that is a felony.

How mobile is this mobile home?

[Murphy4570]

Mobile homes are, by name, mobile.


So move the thing somewhere more convenient.

[Sport45]

If instead of the structure there was a tent in that location and you could see three or four adults and a few kids milling around it, would you shoot anyway?

Just tell us where the darned thing is in relation to your firing lane. Sounds to me like it was a problem before. You may have been assuming it was empty without checking it for vagrants, kids, etc before shooting.

[451 Detonics]

2 miles should be sufficient

post an address and we can do a satellite look up at the property like this...

My range....

http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z271/reloader1959/range%20day/ourrange-1-1.jpg

[YankeeFlyr]

Yeah, he knows it's too close but wants validation for his hope that it really isn't. :what:

Maybe they can buy the property, so they can control it, like my range complex in MD did.

[shiftyer1]

I wouldn't feel comfortable shooting at a building I could see, occupied or not. A truckload of dirt isn't really all that expensive.

[Art Eatman]

From Post #21: "...if you can see it from the firing lane, it's not safe."

A berm near the firing line itself, located such that the farthest station is blocked from seeing the house, would be one possible solution. The firing line would be one leg of an L; the berm would be the other leg.

[mwsenoj]

Okay, okay, by popular demand...


http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e305/jones3420012001/Range.jpg


It was my grandparents MH before they passed. It was empty for several years. Now occupied. I always let them know when we are shooting at 100 and 200 yds.


The markup of the picture was a quick one that I slapped together before work, so dont get your protractors out and tell me the angle is 19* or something - please.

[Andrew Wyatt]

Needs more berms.

[Sport45]

What's behind the backstop? Can you shoot diagonally the other way across the field?

The backstop doesn't look very large. What's behind it if you launch one over the top or off to its side? Did you pick that diagonal because it's safer than the other?

[Haxby]

You gotta be kidding. I can't believe they aren't calling the cops on you every time you fire a round.

[mwsenoj]

You gotta be kidding. I can't believe they aren't calling the cops on you every time you fire a round.
Haxby, you ought to be more careful making assumptions. I have not fired one single shot from anywhere past the building since people started moving in. It has exclusively been 200 and in. You end up stirring up crap and getting it on everyone when you assume things like this. Please edit your post.

[Haxby]

I always let them know when we are shooting

You showed a picture of the range. You said you have been shooting. I assumed you are shooting from the area you labeled 'firing line' in the direction of the spot you labeled 'range.'
If that is not correct, you could edit your picture to make it more clear.

[RickMD]

I don't know about California but in my state there is no way that you could legally shoot there.

[bergmen]

+1

If an occupied dwelling is anywhere in front of the firing line within 180 degrees, you are SOL.

rc

^^^This. Not only an occupied dwelling but ANYTHING that could come in contact with a bullet or the result of a bullet striking ANYTHING downrange (ricochet, debris getting kicked up, etc.) within a 180 degree arc.

Dan

[Kristensdaddy]

Looks like some sort of row crop so this may not work. But, put a pile of dirt very near the shooting bench, like right where the arrow points. Strategically place it so that it blocks the entire view of the building in question. Having it much closer to the bullets point of origin makes the pile (berm) much smaller.

Am I making sense?

[Sam1911]

Am I making sense?
Yes! That would almost eliminate the ability to put a shot into the trailer.

Now, the other issue is that the target area appears to be in a region which is pretty accessible to foot and maybe even vehicle traffic (clear tire tracks nearby). Shooting into an are where people sometimes go is pretty sketchy.

Adding to that a berm which blocks your ability to point toward the moble home helps one aspect of safety, certainly, but it would probably also block your view of people and/or vehicles heading into the impact area until they were very seriously in danger.

There are some serious hurdles to overcome here.

[BCRider]

I'm sorry but I think you're looking for a new place to shoot or you need to set up some berms to control the lead dispensing direction. That is simply not acceptable from any sort of reasonable firearms safety standpoint where a variety of folks would be shooting.

Too many folks simply do not have the proper degree of muzzle angle control during handling of their rifles. It gets even worse if attempting to clear a jam or some other fault.

Even for hunters in open country I'm pretty sure that most places have a rule about not shooting within X hundred yards of any buildings or other built up areas. So likely this spot runs afoul of your own local rules/laws in that regard.

[Old Shooter]

I wouldn't.

I'd find someplace else.

One mistake and your life and probably someone else's is going to be ruined.

But, thats just me.

[hardluk1]

mwsenoj You come here asking what we all think. Guess by now you know so do what you want. Your probably going to anyhow. What you is not safe. Even with a round that was mistakenly fired high is now gone 1 1/2 miles down range.

[MtnCreek]

We don’t know what surrounds this property, so just basing this on the image provided.
Who owns the horse area? If you have people over there, then absolutely not safe. Assuming image lays top=north, does anyone access the trailer from the South? If so, that’s an issue. Assuming nothing to the northwest would prevent it, reversing the range to shoot from the current berm towards the current firing position would be better as far as the trailer is concerned.
I’m sure you do, but keep in mind the limited field of view when shooting with a high power scope.
FWIW, if all the requirements listed in this thread had to be implemented, there wouldn’t be many ranges in this country, at least not in the east.

[mwsenoj]

mwsenoj You come here asking what we all think. Guess by now you know so do what you want. Your probably going to anyhow. What you is not safe. Even with a round that was mistakenly fired high is now gone 1 1/2 miles down range.
I really do not appreciate the assumptions. You have no clue what is behind the range. There are several miles of empty farm land behind the range.

Isn't this the high road?

[mwsenoj]

We don’t know what surrounds this property, so just basing this on the image provided.
Who owns the horse area? If you have people over there, then absolutely not safe. Assuming image lays top=north, does anyone access the trailer from the South? If so, that’s an issue. Assuming nothing to the northwest would prevent it, reversing the range to shoot from the current berm towards the current firing position would be better as far as the trailer is concerned.
I’m sure you do, but keep in mind the limited field of view when shooting with a high power scope.
FWIW, if all the requirements listed in this thread had to be implemented, there wouldn’t be many ranges in this country, at least not in the east.
The rectangle is my parents property. There are no horses or other living things besides birds and rabbits.


To everyone else, thanks for the honest opinions and...

They do not own the land to the side where the OLD firing line is so the berm idea is probably out. So, after hearing what I had already figured to be true, I will continue to just shoot at 200 yds and in.

[Nullcone]

I really do not appreciate the assumptions. You have no clue what is behind the range. There are several miles of empty farm land behind the range.

Isn't this the high road?

And yet another one hides behind "isn't this the high road?" when his activities are rightfully questioned/berated by members.

Your wanting to shoot here, occupants notwithstanding, isn't "high road".

RC (and others), as he so often does, gave you the right answer on page 1.

I don't appreciate your miserly distribution of information and the vagueness of your original post. It seems designed to mislead and get you an answer you want to hear, rather than what you should hear.

Do you have a clue how farmland is managed? Since it's your parents property, I'm guessing you do... it involves people being on the land.

I'm not an expert, but I've helped bale my share of hay. If I was in an adjoining area and heard gunfire while doing it, the authorities would be on their way pronto.

HTH

[Sam1911]

Seems the decision is now made. Not much use arguing about it further.

Best of luck to all involved.