[tepin]

Quick question... I have 2 Palmetto State Armory AR15 lowers. Their WEB site says that their lowers are mil-spec. Should I be able to attach any complete upper to the Palmetto receiver? I am looking at LMT and Noveske specifically.
Thanks

[henschman]

Yes, any upper will fit, other than old Colts from the 60s and 70s that had larger pins.

[68wj]

The beauty of an ugly AR15 :D

[drsfmd]

I'm missing something here... why would you put a top-of-the-line LMT or Noveske upper on a $50 lower?

To answer your question... yes, it will fit, but not necessarily as it should. It could be a little sloppy, or a little too tight.

[awgrizzly]

The PSA lowers are a bit better than the price might indicate

[madcratebuilder]

It should fit fine. The finish may not match. It's not that PSA lowers are cheap, just some others are way over priced.

[Hacker15E]

A PSA lower is not some cheapo cut-rate lower.

Their first batches were made by Aero Precision, and their current ones are made by LW Schneider.

http://lwschneider.com/

[Jet-mech]

As mentioned it will fit but there may be variance in fit and finish when mixing parts from different manufacturers.

[ny32182]

I'm missing something here... why would you put a top-of-the-line LMT or Noveske upper on a $50 lower?

Because a lower is a lower... they all do the same thing.

"Fit and finish" are not guaranteed to match on a factory complete rifle either, even when the upper and lower come from the same retail source. I have some PSA stripped lowers (mid 2011 production), and if anything, the finish looks nicer than it does on my LMT/Colts.

There is supposed to be a little bit of play between a milspec type upper and lower, so if there is NOT, there is more likely to be some kind of dimensional quirk. It might take a few hundred rounds for it to get broken in.

Any upper with milspec pin sizes will work just fine.

[David E]

Because a lower is a lower... they all do the same thing.

Except that they're not.

[gatorjames85]

Two lowers with different rollmarks can be made by the same manufacturer but have very different pricing. Price isn't everything with ar lowers.

[Aiko492]

BCM runs good deals on blemish lowers from time to time, you may want to check their site.

[Bobson]

Because a lower is a lower... they all do the same thing.Except that they're not.
Mind expanding on that? In other words, when you're comparing two lowers made by different manufacturers, what might you look for in determining the quality of each?

[fatcat4620]

Except that they're not.
Do explain

[David E]

Not all tolerances are correct and true, heat treating may differ, base material may vary.

Loki, for example, has a machined and matched upper/lower receiver kit and pricing reflects that.

Palmetto State Armory makes and sells good AR lowers.

[adelbridge]

Milspec refers to more than just the dimensions.
There is the alloy specs, forging process, heat treating, anodizing and specific hardness ratings that make a lower mil spec. There are some lowers that are cast instead of forged or machined instead of cast. Most parts for ar-15 are interchangeable but not all the same quality. To be fair the upper is what takes most of the abuse but I have seen cheap lowers come apart at the buffer tube threading.

[-v-]

As long as its not a vulcan/hesse/plastic lower, a lower is still a lower. Finish might be a little different, but they all run the same. Why? Because there are four companies that make the vast majority of lowers. "But -V-! Thats bollocks look at all the brands such as spike's, BCM, Noveske, etc." Sure, there are lots of brands stamped on the side. As long as said end company files the right paperwork, the lower manufacturer can stamp anything they are contracted to on the side of their lower. That's all the difference between say a Noveske lower versus a DPMS lower. Same manufacturer, different company roll marks.

All of this courtesy of the AR lower reciever faq over at AR15.com. (http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_12/318113_AR_Lower_Receiver_FAQ__56k_beware__MMS__CMT__LAR__LMT_compared___.html)

Honestly, lets be realistic, the only thing the lower does is hold the FCG and magazine. It takes comparatively little stress, and at the end of the day a lower is a lower. Now, if you want to think that a $250 stripped lower with "The Punisher" roll marks is vastly superior to the $50 Aero precision or what have you, go ahead. Just remember, they are both otherwise identical slabs of aluminum.

[kwelz]

Lowers are not all the same.

However PSA lowers are not bad. There are only a couple brands I would avoid and they are noton the list.

[Girodin]

That's all the difference between say a Noveske lower versus a DPMS lower.

That actually is not true for the newer Gen2 Noveske lowers. Are they worth paying $150 or so more than some of the other lowers? That is something reasonable people could disagree about.

http://www.rainierarms.com/img/shop/product/34cb648417b173d97b1c9c63d84f175f.jpg

http://www.elementarms.com/images/P/p.jpg

[wkumatt]

Pretty well.covered already. Yes, it will fit.

The only downside that I see to putting high end uppers and parts kits into less well regarded lowers comes when you decide to sell or trade. Others will try to talk the rifle down based on the lower.

I'm very happy with everything I've gotten from PSA. My most recent build is all PSA EXCEPT the lower which is an SAA.

Sent from my PB99400 using Tapatalk 2

[mljdeckard]

As long as they are in-spec, they are close enough that 99% of the shooters on this planet will never see any difference. Pop it on and shoot it.

[awgrizzly]

From building three ARs on PSA lowers they have all fit well with multiple uppers, the parts go together just fine, and they are well finished with no rough spots or sharp edges. The fit, finish and heat treatment are claimed to be mil spec.

From what I have read the blanks are pretty much the same but they are then often cut out, machined and finished by the manufacturer. On others the only special treatment provided for the manufacturer is their logo. So there can be differences. Some looseness between upper and lower is normal. I believe it's true that it's the upper receiver that one needs to be careful of since the barrel attaches to it and accuracy might be affected. I had one that the barrel extension fit loosely in. I think that's worse than a loose fitting lower.

[madcratebuilder]

Mind expanding on that? In other words, when you're comparing two lowers made by different manufacturers, what might you look for in determining the quality of each?
DE does have a point.

First lets eliminate the cast (not made in years) and composite lowers, we are talking about current 'mil-spec' lowers. Forged 7075 aluminum.

These are going to originate from one of about a half dozen forging plants. Raw forging go to one of about a dozen different machining facilities. All these shops use the same 'mil-spec' sheet for internal size and hole spacing/size. There are differences in things like the mag well bevel (kind of important if you play 3gun). Most are low shelf. Some get a "Gator Grip" pattern on the front (Mega). After roll marks are done these go to heat treat, then to surface finish. Damn few places do all this in house.

There are several types of so called "mil-spec finish" with some costing more than others.

The high priced "boutique shops" do not manufacture their own uppers/lowers. They are contracted out to their specs.

There are some small shops that start with raw forging and manufacturer especially nice lowers, AXTS is one, their finished product is fantastic, but you pay for it.

The machining facilities well have "seconds", these yet to be marked lowers well be sold, but to who?

Anything coming from Aero Precision, Mega, or Schneider is GTG.

[68wj]

But -V-, that's bullocks! :D

Yes, most forged lowers come from a small handfull of sources and only differ by roll marks. However, there have been some changes since that ARFcom thread was created in '07 (new forgers, different forgings, ect). Some manufacturers also buy the unmachined forgings and complete the final steps inhouse. There is also the matter of QC difference between some of the companies too. How many bad DPMS receivers have you heard of, and then what about the others? I know of 2 Spikes (one infamously band sawed) and a few early PSA's with tight mag wells that they took care of.

In the end though, I say you can buy from PSA with confidence and don't worry about the higher marked receivers unless you just need their included features. Although a matching Mega set is very nice for the money if you are building a complete rifle.

[oldguy870]

The first two lowers I could buy in California were Vulcan lowers. Admittedly, they are bottom of the barrel.

Even the Vulcans work fine. Lowers are lowers.

[JustinJ]

There is supposed to be a little bit of play between a milspec type upper and lower, so if there is NOT, there is more likely to be some kind of dimensional quirk. It might take a few hundred rounds for it to get broken in.

Play may be common and one can argue wether or not it matters but it has nothing to do with "supposed to". If play is supposed to be there I gota wonder why Colt included an accuwedge with my 6720 and said in the manual to use if play is present.

[ny32182]

The reason is that many people unfamiliar with AR15s think the play is undesirable, call the manufacturer to complain, and Colt probably decided it was easier to include a 2 cent piece of plastic than field 100 calls a day about the play.

[mljdeckard]

And even if Vulcan/Hesse/Nom du Jour is the worst, it doesn't mean they get every single one wrong. I have a busted watch that's right TWICE every day. :)

[68wj]

And even if Vulcan/Hesse/Nom du Jour is the worst, it doesn't mean they get every single one wrong. I have a busted watch that's right TWICE every day. :)
My broken Timex is predicted to be right this coming December 21st.