[el Godfather]

Dear THR,
Between CZ75 and Glock 17 which one is more accurate out if the box up to 25 yards?

Please give experience based answers rather then favoring one brand over the other.

Thanks.

[jmr40]

With some work from a gunsmith the CZ has the potential to be more accurate. Out of the box Glocks have better triggers.

Yes, I've owned both. No longer have CZ's because they didn't live up to the internet hype.

[GregGry]

These questions always bother me because people get mixed up with mechanical accuracy and shooter accuracy. Both guns will outshoot virtually everyone's capability of shooting at 25 yards, while standing. Both guns can hit a target at 200+ yards (YouTube Hickok45 230 yards). So if I had to pick between the two I would pick my sp01 since I have all comp parts and it's sa only. My glock 17 wouldn't be far behind. (I might just test the 25 yard shooting between the two and report back)

I have trained a lot of people to shoot using my sp01 when it was stock and the glock 17. On average people shoot the glock better, and I believe that's due to its sights. I have seen people complain that "you name it" gun is inaccurate, 100% of the time it's the shooter. I have shot everything from German pocket pistols to long slide 1911s and all of them were more accurate then I am. The longer barrels and better sights/triggers make it easier to get the accuracy out of the gun, but they don't change what the ultimate accuracy is.

Edit: think of this question for a minute. If you put both guns in a vise and say one shot a 1 inch group at 25 yards and the other one shot a 1.10 inch group, why does that matter since most people can't hit a 10 inch target at 25 yards consistently? (let alone sub 4 inch groups). The more important question is what gun does the individual shoot best. Some guns cover up poor shooting habits (like 1911s) due to light triggers and good sights. If you can't shoot any gun you pickup well then it's a shooter issue more then the gun. Try shooting a 44mag revolver in DA mode, if you can shoot good groups with that you can shoot any handgun well. Looking back at all my paper targets I have kept I couldnt tell you what gun was used other then caliber because they all have almost the same groupings.

[Byrd666]

Almost all modern firearms are more accurate than you, or I, will ever be.

Basically what GregGry said.

[hso]

The more important question is what gun does the individual shoot best.

Bingo!

If both guns are gently broken in, I far prefer the CZ trigger to the Glock trigger, but I prefer the Glock sights to the CZ sights. I can shoot both just fine, but neither fit me personally like a BHP/P35 (which fits like an extension of my will). OTOH, my wife shoots a CZ75 in any caliber as if it were an extension of her will and will make no attempt to conceal her dislike of a Glock in any caliber.

Comparing and contrasting the two firearms is almost impossible.

[GregGry]

A good shooter will shoot any handgun well, and will shoot their perferred pistol exceptionally well. I have never shot a handgun I couldn't shoot 10 out of 10 shots inside a 10 inch group at 25 yards. I always know I am the limitation on the gun, not the other way around.

[19-3Ben]

Almost all modern firearms are more accurate than you, or I, will ever be.

Basically what GregGry said.

Yup. Doesn't really make a practical bit of difference. I didn't vote.

[Inebriated]

Out of the box, Glock is easier to be accurate for me.

[nathan]

Practice is key to become a better shooter. Both guns mentioned are merely tools of the trade as the saying goes.

[railroader]

I had a glock 17 and I'm on my 4th cz. On cz pistols the barrel locks up tight. On the glock I had I could push down on the hood of the barrel and it would move. I'm not saying glocks aren't good guns but if you put both in a ransom rest the cz will win.

[Teachu2]

I had a glock 17 and I'm on my 4th cz. On cz pistols the barrel locks up tight. On the glock I had I could push down on the hood of the barrel and it would move. I'm not saying glocks aren't good guns but if you put both in a ransom rest the cz will win.


So:
1) 1 Glock lasts as long as 4 CZs
2) Don't push on the barrel hood when firing a Glock, but it's OK to do so on a CZ
3) If you are only going to shoot from a Ransom rest, CZ is the better gun (who makes THAT holster?)

CZ makes a fine weapon, according to the Internet. I wouldn't know, having been trying to locate one for six months...I know both the Glocks I've bought recently are much easier to hold, aim, and shoot - but I imagine my (imaginary) CZ is better.

Someday, I'll own a CZ 75SA. Until then, my G34 will be happily punching holes in paper.

[RBid]

As has been said, either gun will be more accurate than any shooter.


Having said that, the first time I ever shot a CZ 75BD, it felt as though I had been shooting one for years. It points very naturally, the ergonomics are great, and I got along well with the trigger. Any other shooter may well have a different sort of experience, but there are a lot of people singing the praises of the CZ with good reason.

[easyg]

I was more accurate with my CZ than I was with my Glock.
But not by very much.

Unfortunately, the CZ had some reliability issues.
It would jam about 4 or 5 times per magazine.
I tried different ammo, and different magazines, and different shooters but it still jammed.
I sent it back to CZ and they returned it as "repaired", but it still jammed.
I later sold it to a guy who felt that he could fix the problem.
Last I heard he had sent it back to CZ again.

I'm not bashing CZ and I think that the CZ75B is a good pistol (albeit a heavy one), but I think I just got a lemon.

[Pilot]

CZ makes a fine weapon, according to the Internet. I wouldn't know, having been trying to locate one for six months.


There are many on line sources of CZ firearms. Buy one, and have it transferred through a local FFL. Its not rocket science.

I've owned them since the late 90's, and have always been satisfied with their performance.

[DaveShooter]

I have had both Glock and CZ. I will take a CZ any day as far as alot of different reasons. Too me my CZ out shot my Glock 17. The grip in my CZ also felt natural in the hand compared to the Glock. On paper groups from my 2 CZ75B's were much tighter than Glock 17 or Glock 19. Can't wait to shoot my big hoss CZ 97B-45ACP after I get it out of lay-away. Carry the full sz 75B daily as my ccw weapon. Shoot what shoots good for you not by what is spoken in a gun web sight . Just my honest 2 cents in the matter.:)

[daybreak]

So:
1) 1 Glock lasts as long as 4 CZs

... according to the Internet. The CZ P01 has a NATO SN, along with the glock 17, 19. Sure a glock MIGHT be a llittle more durable, but assuming 4x more durable or life lasting is a big assumption.

***

By design, I believe CZs are inherently more accurate. It has a tighter barrel lock up, and based on my own experiences with both guns, it is in fact more accurate. but I agree that the differences are negligible for the purpose of a handgun. I love glock and even prefer the glock trigger, but I do give the accuracy edge to the CZ 75 platform. YMMV.

[wildehond]

You will have to be an olympic shot to be able to see a difference in those to handguns at 25 yards. Remember that slide to frame fit is not nearly as important as barrel to slide fit. If that is tight and the same lockup each time. The handgun will be way more accurate than 99.9% of shots can do.

[sturmgewehr]

Almost all modern firearms are more accurate than you, or I, will ever be.
^ This.

It's less of a question as to which firearm is more accurate, it's more of a question of "which firearm do you shoot best". Most shooters out there will never be able to realize the full accuracy potential of their firearms. It's mental gymnastics to argue which one is mechanically more accurate when the average shooter is incapable of shooting any pistol to its full potential.

Shoot both pistols and figure out which one works best for you. If you shoot the CZ more accurately, I will bet you $20 there is a Glock shooter out there that will dance circles around you with their pistol, and visa versa. Figure out which one works for you and go with it then practice until the barrel falls off.

[beatledog7]

Between the two, most shooters will shoot best the one which they have shot most and most recently.

The same could be said for just about any two full-size 9mm pistols.

[coalman]

I've owned both. Mechanically, the CZ prints tighter/smaller groups. And, with the SA trigger on the CZ, the shooter will maximize that superior mechanical accuracy. The better ergonomics of the CZ will help many shooters, too. Both guns are more accurate than most shooters.

[Teachu2]

There are many on line sources of CZ firearms. Buy one, and have it transferred through a local FFL. Its not rocket science.


I prefer to buy locally, or at least get to hold one before spending the money. I haven't located one to wrap my fingers around - new, used, or borrowed.

I have purchased guns my LGS couldn't get. I wanted a Hi-Point 4595 carbine, and the LGS could not get one. Bud's won't ship them to CA. I kept searching until I found a shop in Florida that added bullet buttons, and got a CA-legal one from them.

I am reasonably well-versed in Internet commerce, Federal rules, California restrictions, and have a working knowledge of rocketry. So far, I've found only 1 vendor for a CZ 75SA that had it in stock and was willing to sell it to a CA resident - for $759 + $50 shipping. I have plenty of other guns to distract me from the lack of a CZ until they become available again.

Thank you for your attempt at educating me!

[Pilot]

Where there's a will, there's a way. If you really want one, you can get one, even in CA as you say. That's all I was trying to say. I've bought many firearms sight unseen, and have always been pleased, but YMMV. Good luck in your search.

[Walt Sherrill]

if you put both in a ransom rest the cz will win.

Polymer-framed guns aren't tested in Ransom rests. Only steel-framed guns can be evaluated in a Ransom rest. I doubt you can find inserts (needed with the rest) for a polymer-framed gun.

That's because Ransom Rests are dependent on the gun returning to exactly the same position with each shot, and polymer-framed guns won't always do that. With aimed fire -- which isn't done with RR tests -- it doesn't matter: you adjust and pull the trigger. In aimed fire, it'll be the best shooter who gets the best results with either gun.

I've had many different CZs and a number of different Glocks, over the years, and have both, now. I don't see that much difference between them.

As others here have already written, once properly broken in, either gun will shoot better than most people can shoot them, and it'll probably be a matter of which shoots best for a given shooter. That's probably true of SIGs and Berettas, and most S&W guns, too.

[Kymasabe]

I agree with HSO 100%. I too prefer a broken in CZ75 trigger over a Glock, but I prefer the Glock sightsw over the CZ. In the right hands, either gun is very accurate. Personally, Glocks don't point naturally for me and I don't shoot them well. On the other hand, CZ75's fit may hand perfectly and I DO shoot them well.

So, it depends on what gun fits you better. Don't get sucked into the hype from one gun or the other. Shoot what fits you best.

[ny32182]

"The gun is more accurate than the shooter", is probably true, but not really relevant to the question.

No shooter, olympic level or not, could ever truly maximize the accuracy potential of a gun.

Group dispersion will be an addition of error from two sources assuming environmental variations such as wind, etc, are removed:

1) The mechanical accuracy of the equipment fired from a perfect rest (zero shooter error) all group spread comes from inconsistencies in the gun and ammo.

2) Shooter error... there will always be some, regardless of how good the shooter is. This would be measured independently by having the shooter shoot a laser beam offhand from X yards, and the group size is the error induced by the shooter.... (zero variation in the equipment).

The group size is an addition of #1 and #2. No matter how bad the shooter is, all other factors equal, they will be a little better with a more accurate firearm.

I think what people mean to say with statements like "the gun is more accurate than I am" is that #2 is usually a lot bigger than #1, especially with a pistol fired offhand, and therefore #1 is not much of a factor when evaluating the practical accuracy of handguns. Which is true. But it is always still a factor; just one of many.

[PO2Hammer]

Not all guns are more accurate than the shooters. I've owned two dogs that I could out shoot at 25 yards. A 2nd gen G-24 with mis-matched barrel, slide, frame and an early 3rd gen G-35. Neither would group well at 25 yards from my hands, our club's IDPA champ (a dedicated Glock guy) or from a rest. 5" was the best either one would do.

But in general it's true that it's the archer, not the bow.

As far as Glock VS CZ, once I did a trigger job on the CZ, it was very easy to shoot 2" groups at 25 yards when I was having a good day.

Glock triggers were much harder for me to master, but again, when I was dialed in I could do amazing things with my 17L. Even my G-19 shot very well at 25 yards once I installed Heinie sights.

[meanmrmustard]

Too subjective of a topic. The accuracy potential is going to be directly affected by the shooter. If shooter A sucks, an accurate pistol won't help, but a good shooter can find his way around an inaccurate pistol.

I did not vote, this el Godfathers goofiest poll to date.

[GregGry]

The group size is an addition of #1 and #2. No matter how bad the shooter is, all other factors equal, they will be a little better with a more accurate firearm.

Lets say the average gun is capable of shooting 2 inch groups at 25 yards, yet the average shooter is only capable of shooting greater then 8 inch groups at 25 yards if they are lucky. the affect of one guns mechanical accuracy over another is a moot point and would be almost impossible to determin from shot spread pattern from people offhand shooting. Even if the shot group went from 8 inches to 6 inches due to increased mechanical accuracy, they still arent shooting near the capability of the gun.

There are videos of guys shooting box stock pistols and cheap ammo at 150 to 230 yards and hitting targets. Your average shooter can't do that. The average pistols mechanical accuracy far exceeds the ability of the shooter, and in most cases with modern pistols plays a insignificant role in how well someone shoots a pistol. Which is why I laugh at how my xdm has a "match" barrel which some say is more accurate then my glock barrel, yet I shoot both of them about the same and couldn't tell you which one is more mechanically accurate. I can tell you that I can't shoot either one as good as my cheap Taurus 44 mag revolver due to its long sight radius and light trigger. Yet the mechanical accuracy of all 3 is likely very close.


Edit: in my experience I have never seen someone put a same size aftermarket barrel in a pistol that was supposedly "match grade" shoot any better then the stock barrel.

[m39nut]

As an fairly experienced shooter, the CZ is more accurate but I can shoot both reasonbly well. My wife, on the other hand, can shoot the CZ OK but can't hit anything with the Glock, so the Glock went away.

[armoredman]

I qualified Expert or Distinguished Expert with the Glock pistol for ten years, but I far prefer my CZ SP-01 Phantom. I shoot better with either it or my CZ P-01 pistol than any Glock. I've had more Glocks fail in my hand than CZs, as well. 10 CZ pistols so far, and all of then worked just fine...with the notable exception of the CZ -100. That trigger was unbelievably bad, one reason why it is no longer listed.
It really comes down to the shooter. As pointed out earlier, I shoot my CZ well enough to be happy with it, but Dave Sevigny of Team Glock is going to make me look like I started shooting yesterday and am currently carrying a water pistol. On the other hand Robin Sebo of Team CZUB, who used an SP-01 Shadow and won the Florida Open 2012 Production Division, could outshoot me with my issued duty Glock 17 any day of the week, AND twice on Sunday.
I prefer CZ, as in my PERSONAL HANDS ON EXPERIENCE, (you have to highlight that, or the screams of "FAN BOY" come as shrilly as listening to a Democratic National Convention), I have had more failures with Glock products than CZ products, and tend to shoot CZ products better than Glock products. Both are good solid durable weapons, or neither company would likely have the military contracts they both hold, and with the Glock 20 year lead on CZUB, the current Glock stranglehold on US police department inventories.
Off on the side, has anyone seen that Stage 3 malfunction that New York PD was complaining about with the G-19, so mad they almost went with Ruger? I never saw one in any G-19 I used, just curious.

[sigarms228]

"The gun is more accurate than the shooter", is probably true, but not really relevant to the question.

No shooter, olympic level or not, could ever truly maximize the accuracy potential of a gun.

Group dispersion will be an addition of error from two sources assuming environmental variations such as wind, etc, are removed:

1) The mechanical accuracy of the equipment fired from a perfect rest (zero shooter error) all group spread comes from inconsistencies in the gun and ammo.

2) Shooter error... there will always be some, regardless of how good the shooter is. This would be measured independently by having the shooter shoot a laser beam offhand from X yards, and the group size is the error induced by the shooter.... (zero variation in the equipment).

The group size is an addition of #1 and #2. No matter how bad the shooter is, all other factors equal, they will be a little better with a more accurate firearm.

I think what people mean to say with statements like "the gun is more accurate than I am" is that #2 is usually a lot bigger than #1, especially with a pistol fired offhand, and therefore #1 is not much of a factor when evaluating the practical accuracy of handguns. Which is true. But it is always still a factor; just one of many.

AGREED and well said.

I have known people who had their factory barrel replaced on their pistol with a fitted Barsto barrel and NOTHING else done to the pistol with the result being they were able to consistently shoot better groups. These individuals, while good shooters, could not shoot to the potential accuracy of the pistol offhand but they were extremely please with their investment and better results.

[sixgunner455]

Glocks shoot okay. Trigger is annoying, and the trigger guard rubs my finger raw.

CZ 75 feels like it was made for my hand, and the triggers can be fantastic. The one on my 75B SA is.

That said, I mostly carry S&W revolvers. :D