[TurtlePhish]

According to an e-mail from NAGR, Obama lifted the import ban on over 84,000 Garands from Korea. Just thought I'd let y'all know!

[Bojangles7]

Source? Link? Anything?

[whalerman]

And here we go again. What is NAGR? As if we're all supposed to know.

IWPWSUSA

[TurtlePhish]

Quote from the email, but other than that no. Sorry.


I'm disgusted that -- as Memorial Day approaches -- Barack Obama is STILL blocking over 600,000 M1 Carbines from returning to our country.

Sure, you saw the headlines...

Under intense pressure from angry gun owners, Obama finally lifted his re-importation ban on the 84,417 M1 Garands that have been sitting in a Korean warehouse.

But his silence on the over 600,000 M1 Carbines i

The email is complaining about the ban on M1 Carbines, obviously. But I hadn't heard about the Garands being allowed back in before this.

[TurtlePhish]

And here we go again. What is NAGR? As if we're all supposed to know.

IWPWSUSA
*


National Association for Gun Rights, I assumed people knew who they were. Seen some members on THR. I personally don't care much for them, but they send me emails anyway.

[Seven High]

I'll believe it when I see it. I sure hope that it is true.

[TurtlePhish]

I'll believe it when I see it. I sure hope that it is true.

Same here...

[hso]

I didn't see anything on CMP.

[bryank30]

I googled it, and haven't seen anything...

[Dentite]

The CMP says on their website that even if the Korean Garands come into the country they won't be sold through the CMP.

[Buck Kramer]

Heres the link, its an opinion piece, and he didn't cite anything.

http://www.nationalgunrights.org/i-couldnt-be-more-disgusted/

[451 Detonics]

Agree...I will believe it when I see it and they have already been inspected and turned down by the CMP as being much lower in grade than even rack grade...I guess they didn't even want to try to salvage receivers.

[bigdogpete]

This might shed some light on the topic. This is an article off a thread from the CMP forum.

http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news...16_103154.html

bigdog

[barnbwt]

...turned down by the CMP as being much lower in grade than even rack grade

What the heck were they doing to the rifles over there to get them in such bad shape? IF they really are beat up, rusted relics, do we even want them here? (of course we do ;))

I suppose I could go for a 300$ beater Garand (provided it still works)...

TCB

[zoom6zoom]

they have already been inspected and turned down by the CMP
The CMP never had anything to do with them in the first place as they are not importers. They would only get involved if these were returned to the US Gov and then turned over to them. Orest posted this information on the CMP forums.

[Buck Kramer]

Bigdog, your link is out.

[Onmilo]

"I'll believe it when I see it."

Ditto

[USSR]

The CMP never had anything to do with them in the first place as they are not importers. They would only get involved if these were returned to the US Gov and then turned over to them.

+1. Rifles that were loaned to various governments, have to be returned to the U.S. government, the Army processes them and turns them over to the CMP for sales. However, rifles that were bought outright by various governments can be sold to importers for commercial sale, and this does not involve the CMP at all. So, the CMP never had anything to do with these rifles, and it has nothing to do with their condition.

Don

[303tom]

National Association for Gun Rights, I assumed people knew who they were. Seen some members on THR. I personally don't care much for them, but they send me emails anyway.
Some people don`t know how to use Google.............

National Association for Gun Rights, I knew what it was but I put NAGR in Google, was the first thing that came up.........

[jimmyraythomason]

Some people don`t know how to use Google.............
I googled "Korean M1 Garands for Sale" and got this <http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/u-s-to-import-87310-m1-garand-rifles-from-korea/>

[bergmen]

I googled "Korean M1 Garands for Sale" and got this <http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/01/foghorn/u-s-to-import-87310-m1-garand-rifles-from-korea/>

Still no substantiation, no links. If this site wants to have some credibility as "The Truth About Guns" it needs to prove that what they are saying is in fact the "truth".

Dan

[jimmyraythomason]

Quote from The Korean Times(source cited in the link I posted):"A senior defense ministry official, however, raised the possibility that the U.S. government may cancel the plan to allow the purchase the M1s, saying Seoul has yet to finalize negotiations with Washington."

``We have yet to receive confirmation from the United States over our proposal,” he said. “The U.S. government may change its position at the last minute due to political considerations.”

[bergmen]

I should have been more clear. This is what I was referring to:

The State Department has finally gotten off its rear end and green-lighted their re-entry into The Land of the Free. The rifles had been in political limbo for decades . . .

Dan

[jimmyraythomason]

gotcha.I do hope it comes about. I would definitely like one of them even if I had to refurb it.

[Hammerhead6814]

They won't import them because they are technically our guns already! The Koreans only have those M1 Carbines because we gave them to them during the Korean war under lend-lease. In order for them to sell those rifles, they have to compensate the United States first.

If they sell these, it means we just payed for what is already our property. I'd rather not get taken for a sucker.

[bigdogpete]

The link of the article will not work. I pasted the article below. Also, here is the link to the CMP thread, if interested.

http://forums.thecmp.org/showthread.php?t=68623


[Exclusive] US allows import of 86,000 M1 rifles from Korea


M1 Garand rifle

Firearms will be sold to Korean War veterans

By Lee Tae-hoon

Washington has agreed to allow the importation of M1 Garand rifles from Seoul, reversing its earlier decision to ban the shipping of the weapon used by South Korean and U.S. soldiers during the 1950-53 Korean War, a senior defense official said Wednesday.

“The U.S. government approved the imports of some 86,000 of the rifles,” said Lee Sun-chul, deputy defense minister for force and resources management.

“The historic firearms are expected to be sold to American Korean War veterans and their families in time for the 62nd anniversary of the Korean War, which falls on June 25 this year.”

Kim Mi-sung, an official of the force and resources management office, said the defense ministry received an approval letter from the United States on Sept. 2 last year that stated Washington agreed to allow the importation of the M1s.

She noted that the U.S. government, however, rejected Seoul’s proposal to export some 600,000 M1 Carbines, which were also used in the Korean War, as they come with a magazine that can carry multiple rounds unlike the Garands.

“We plan to announce a bid later this month or in February for the selection of agencies to sell the M1 rifles to Americans,” Kim said. “The U.S. has been reviewing legal procedures for the approval of a third party transfer.”

The official said Korea plans to purchase locally developed K2 rifles with the money raised by selling the M1s.

The Obama administration blocked the purchase of 87,310 M1 Garands and 770,160 M1 Carbines in 2010, saying the American-made antique rifles could “potentially be exploited by individuals seeking firearms for illicit purposes.”

The move, however, triggered strong criticism among gun collectors, who said the U.S. government was being excessively concerned about possible firearm incidents involving the aging semiautomatic rifles.

In February last year, U.S. Sen. Jon Tester and Rep. Cynthia Lummis proposed bills for an amendment of the Arms Export Control Act to guarantee that U.S.-made military firearms classified as “curios and relics” will not be blocked from importation.

The legislations allow firearms more than 50 years old, considered antiques or relics and lawfully possessed by a foreign government, to be imported into the United States through properly licensed groups and sold without written permission from the U.S. State or Defense Departments.

A senior defense ministry official, however, raised the possibility that the U.S. government may cancel the plan to allow the purchase the M1s, saying Seoul has yet to finalize negotiations with Washington.

``We have yet to receive confirmation from the United States over our proposal,” he said. “The U.S. government may change its position at the last minute due to political considerations.”

M1s were made first in 1926 and used during World War II and the Vietnam War. The carbines were first produced in 1941 and used during the 1950-1953 Korean War.

They currently sell for around $220, according to another defense ministry official.

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I suppose I could go for a 300$ beater Garand (provided it still works)...


Sounds like the start of a fun project. :)

[TurtlePhish]

They currently sell for around $220, according to another defense ministry official.

So, uh... Does anyone wanna go to Korea with me?

[19-3Ben]

I have to say, I'd actually be much more tempted by the Carbines than the Garands. Any shot that we might see the Carbines come back here? With that volume, I'd hope the supply would be high enough to drive the price back down and lower the entry fee to Carbine world!
Of course, suppliers could simply restrict the flow to keep the supply artificially low (ie. the diamond trade).

[bigdogpete]

From what I have read. The current administration will not approve the carbines because of the magazine capacity. Not sure if they are worried about California getting them or Mexico cartels using antiques.

bigdog

[USSR]

They won't import them because they are technically our guns already! The Koreans only have those M1 Carbines because we gave them to them during the Korean war under lend-lease. In order for them to sell those rifles, they have to compensate the United States first.

No. The Koreans got some rifles from us through Lend-Lease, and they outright bought some from us. The rifles in question were bought from us, so no compensation is due the U.S. If they were Lend-Lease rifles, they would have to be returned to the U.S. gov't, the Army would process them and CMP would end up with them, just like the Greek Lend-Lease rifles.

Don

[SaxonPig]

1. As I understand it, the guns would ONLY be available to Korean War vets and maybe some family members.

2. Again, AIUI, these rifles are beyond junk.

[RockyMtnTactical]

I doubt Obama is allowing them to come in... but one can always hope...

[Taroman]

http://www.hverovhe.com/deadhorse.gif

[viking499]

Taroman, I like that.

[Orlando]

This subject has been beat to death for the last 10 years. This is nothing new, dont hold your breath boys and if they do get here I would bet the farm that they will sell for higher than CMP prices and will have a Import stamp.
There is no better deal than CMP, all rifles are checked for headspace and test fired and back by customer service. You think you will get that from the Korean Imports?
There are Carbines out there just have to check the gun forum "for sale" sections

[Jeff F]

I didn't see anything on CMP.
And they probably never will. The CMP does not buy guns to resell. If those Korean garands were given back to the US Government then the CMP would get them. Those Garands are being sold to an importer who will in turn sell them. I have heard that they for the most part are not in very good shape. If it happens we will just have to see what they look like.

[BJ Orange]

IWPWSUSA

I wish people would stop using such anagrams?

[YankeeFlyr]

2nd that.

[mooner]

LMNOPQRSTUV

WXYandZ

honestly.

[Redlg155]

I see them coming back to the US....as KIAs. (the car...no KIA!)

[phil dirt]

There is no way Obama is going to allow this!

[fpgt72]

There is no way Obama is going to allow this!
Unless he is going to use it as a carrot for re-election.

[SharpsDressedMan]

Korea has sold armaments through other importers in the past, not the CMP. We had them back in the 1980's, I believe, and as of late, they have been stalled at the ports due to interference from the Obama administration. Red tape, customs paperwork, and just about any excuse and bureaucratic trick that could be used, from what I hear. This has been a common practice, depending on who is president or what party rules, and is a game that is played over imports of all kinds. We have an executive order from the Clinton administration that revoked Russian made military weapons from being eligible for import. That is why you don't see military issue Makarovs, Russian AK kits, etc, to any extent. Some have slipped in, but few. You want a Russian AK? You have to convert a civilian/sporting Saiga, etc.

[snakeman]

If he allows those carbines in I'll be getting one!

[Carl N. Brown]

The stories I have seen over the past two years are so are that:
o The reimport of ~80,000 Garands and ~700,000 Carbines spaced out over ten years (8,000 Garands and 70,000 Carbines per year) had been tenatively green lighted 7 May 2009 early in the Obama Administration.
o An ATF letter objected to the M1 carbines as "assault weapons" capable of being converted to M2 select fire and in the past commercial imports of M1 carbines had turned out to have contained either M2 carbines or M1 carbines converted to M2 function with part or all of the T17 or T18 conversion kit parts in place.
ATF also objected that retransfer from South Korea would open a floodgate of retransfer requests from other countries with US military surplus in inventory.
o State Dept under Secetary Hillary Clinton nixed the deal for that reason.

While an alternate theory has been offered that the guns are not Korean property but were gifted to Korea during the Korean War and thus US property, the Koreans insist they are Korean property.

Last announcement I heard was a few months ago from the Korean news that the M1 Garands were approved as collectibles not likely to be used as weapons but the paperwork mill was still grinding away slowly. The Korean reports are always so optimistic.

South Korean mil surp M1 carbines were allowed in the late 1980s and condition of the guns imported by "Blue Sky Arlington VA" were usually considered rough but servicable. I bought one for $225 in 1990 and the recoil and extractor springs needed replacing. An alternate objection has been that the 780,000 would all require safety checks or else potentially defective guns could be put on the market.

I suspect the usual unspoken reasons for slowing import of mil surp are still out there: protecting domestic manufacturers, and protecting the investments of collectors.

[Orlando]

"protecting the investments of collectors" ??? Hardly, money talks
There is already some Korean M2Ball hitting the market from several vendors, will we ever see the rifles? Who knows, again this has been talked and rumored for 10 years

[SharpsDressedMan]

Mr. Brown probably has the most correct answer. ^^^

[fpgt72]

If he allows those carbines in I'll be getting one!
Carbine prices have been getting pretty lofty....if they do come in I wonder if it will soften the market....but I am with you if they do come in I will be picking at least one up.

[Maj Dad]

What the heck were they doing to the rifles over there to get them in such bad shape?

The ROKs used them as clubs, bats, hammers, cheater bars and any other possible non-firing task. They drug them behind them by the sling or by holding the barrel (they were heavy & the ROKs were almost unanimously small), and threw them around like 2x4s. This is not hearsay; I saw it, as did any other GI out in the boonies. I was at Camp Casey, a few clicks (medium artillery range) from the DMZ and we had lots of KATUSAs (Korean Augmentees to the US Army) and ROK units located nearby, and they were the reasons for the rifles bad shape. On the other hand, I bought one of the Arlington Ordnance Korean returns ~1986-87 for $250 - a re-parked Winnie with new GI bolt & internal parts and a lightly pitted bore in a SA bbl. Rebarreled it, still have it, looks great & shoots good, too. Oh, the stock - it was one that got drug, beat and trashed - I didn't even bother trying to sell it, just tossed it. You have no idea how badly those stocks were mistreated :what:

But if they come in at the right price, it'll be another project... :cool:

[bigdogpete]

Remember, it is an election year. What is said before an election, changes somehow after the election.

bigdog

[bigdogpete]

LMNOPQRSTUV

WXYandZ

honestly.
Looks like Algebra to me.


bigdog

[fpgt72]

Remember, it is an election year. What is said before an election, changes somehow after the election.

bigdog
He is going to try to appear to move to the middle and this is a good way to do it, but I agree there is slim chance that they will come in.

I also fear what he will try to do in his second term....I am usually not one of those "he will take the guns away" type people, but I think he will try to do some Chicago type gun laws for the entire country....time has proven he will toss even his own party under the bus to get what he wants.

[G21NE]

The stories I have seen over the past two years are so are that:
o The reimport of ~80,000 Garands and ~700,000 Carbines spaced out over ten years (8,000 Garands and 70,000 Carbines per year) had been tenatively green lighted 7 May 2009 early in the Obama Administration.
o An ATF letter objected to the M1 carbines as "assault weapons" capable of being converted to M2 select fire and in the past commercial imports of M1 carbines had turned out to have contained either M2 carbines or M1 carbines converted to M2 function with part or all of the T17 or T18 conversion kit parts in place.
ATF also objected that retransfer from South Korea would open a floodgate of retransfer requests from other countries with US military surplus in inventory.
o State Dept under Secetary Hillary Clinton nixed the deal for that reason.

While an alternate theory has been offered that the guns are not Korean property but were gifted to Korea during the Korean War and thus US property, the Koreans insist they are Korean property.

Last announcement I heard was a few months ago from the Korean news that the M1 Garands were approved as collectibles not likely to be used as weapons but the paperwork mill was still grinding away slowly. The Korean reports are always so optimistic.

South Korean mil surp M1 carbines were allowed in the late 1980s and condition of the guns imported by "Blue Sky Arlington VA" were usually considered rough but servicable. I bought one for $225 in 1990 and the recoil and extractor springs needed replacing. An alternate objection has been that the 780,000 would all require safety checks or else potentially defective guns could be put on the market.

I suspect the usual unspoken reasons for slowing import of mil surp are still out there: protecting domestic manufacturers, and protecting the investments of collectors.
Funny, the "capability of being easily converted to full auto" came up- as if nearly every AR-15 clone currently being sold in the US by US makers couldn't be.....for that matter nearly any semi-auto firearm could be, regardless of its origin.

But the BATF is saddled with import regulations, as well as having some leeway on things that aren't specifically outlawed. Executive orders have a lot to do with this as well....

[scythefwd]

Man.. if they come back and are that bad.. a 300 garand would be a good base to start a build with.. wouldn't want to damage a nice garand.

"I suppose I could go for a 300$ beater Garand (provided it still works)..."

[Jeff H]

I talked to one of the guys in the North Store about this yesterday and he said that as long as South Korea claims they own them and won't give them back to the US Army who actually does own them, then the CMP will not get them.

Private sellers might get them but not the CMP.

The way I understood it, the US Army is pushing to get their property back and not let it into the hands of private sellers.

We'll see what actually happens in the future.

[Hacker15E]

There have been numerous military aid programs which sent Garands to the ROK -- some of them were loaned, some of them were given, and some of them were purchased.

Orest Michaels of the CMP has said repeatedly that it is impossible to ever know if portions of this batch of rifles were lend-lease.

[Maj Dad]

Orest is a pragmatist and a knowledgeable observer of things politic as they relate to Garands, etc. I think the upshot of all of this is that we still do not know if the rifles will be returned, either to the Army or as civilian merchandise. I hope they return, in whatever status. A Korean Garand or Carbine is a piece of history, just like the Russian capture 98s, the VZ-24s and all those others. They just happen to be our service rifles, and I'm in line for one wherever it forms... ;)

Looks like Algebra to me.
I thought that was a mildewed mammary support... :D

[USSR]

I think the upshot of all of this is that we still do not know if the rifles will be returned, either to the Army or as civilian merchandise.

No, our gov't by authorizing their import and sale in this country is reaffirming the Korean's contention that these rifles were purchased from us by them. So, if that's the case, they will not be going to the army and then passed on to the CMP.

Don

[Maj Dad]

You know Don, I guess a precedent was set in the 80's when those Blue Sky/Arlington Ordnance rifles came in. Obama & the antis want to keep them out by all means, and will put roadblocks at every possible point, but in this election year, maybe they'll slip through. As we all agree, it's still conjecture, and we won't know until they make it past the docks & customs, and hit the storefronts. I'm always hopeful, just a bit cynical...

He is going to try to appear to move to the middle and this is a good way to do it, but I agree there is slim chance that they will come in.

[USSR]

Yep, agree. I'll believe it when I see it.

Don

[pat701]

don't hold your breath.

[Jeff H]

Yep, agree. I'll believe it when I see it.


After taking a trip to the North store and actually seeing what the CMP has to offer, I'm not interested in what any private company might offer unless it was really cheap. The CMP stuff is very good for the price.

[USSR]

After taking a trip to the North store and actually seeing what the CMP has to offer, I'm not interested in what any private company might offer unless it was really cheap. The CMP stuff is very good for the price.

Yeah, I have purchase all my Garands from the North store, and would not consider a Korean import UNLESS it was an IHC at a very reasonable price.

Don

[M1GarandDeerHunter]

I'm just glad that SOMETHING American made is being allowed back into the country, however importation is still being blocked on well over 600,000 carbines and alot of 1911 pistols, no idea how many. Who cares about the condition really? I know this is an old post, but in one mans opinion, even if many of these rifles are not serviceable due to neglect and no depot maintenance, then these rifles along with their supporting equipment and surplus ammunition will be valuable to the pool of Garands already in this country. just for spare parts and added clips and ammunition. Anyone who has run this rifle will find that it seems to last forever with little parts replacement, once parts ARE needed they can be expensive. Therefore receivers and any serviceable parts are ok by me even if many rifles are not not completely serviceable themselves, it simply adds to the parts inventory in country now. Stock up if you shoot this rifle, not just for yourself but friends as well that may get into this gun and didnt even consider about an extra extractor or firing pin. Lets keep pressure on our elected officials to do the right thing, and let these wonderful old guns back into their birthplace. they were on the front line of freedom many of them, far longer than they maybe should have been, as evidenced by lack of maintenance. Lets bring them ALL home.