[Lerk]

So had a dream last night that I needed a BP gun, but know next to nothing about them. Started going through the essentials thread but it's just leading me to more questions. So I'll just start out with some basics and go from there. My only use would be for deer hunting in the future and just punching holes in paper. Only interested in rifles at this time, just not cool enough yet for a ball and cap revolver.

What caliber would you recommend for a deer gun. I don't think there are any major caliber restrictions in MN for muzzleloaders but I'll definitely check into that.

With the caliber choice, which rifle would you recommend I get? Any specific things I should be looking at when I'm shopping around for them? Things to avoid?

Next is primer and firing system? Preferences, pros/cons of each, etc...

And lastly powders and bullets to go with the above choices

Glad you guys are here to help out.

[toolslinger]

Dang bubba! Can open, worms everywhere:D
Your pretty much gonna get a different answer from everyone.:eek:
Here is mine. Go traditional sidelock, caplock. Go with patched roundball.
With that said make sure whatever rifle you decide to go with has the appropriate rifling twist to shoot patched roundball. 1/48 or slower. As to the brand of gun you really have to handle the rifles to make that decision.
The construction of the various weapons is gonna make a big ol difference as to what you like as to feel.
Length of pull, drop of stock, how well you like the sights and even style, half or full stock will all affect your decision. Lookin at pictures won't really do it.
As to caliber, as much as I hate to say it .50 cal to start out with.
I personally like a .54 but you really need to look around your area and see what components are available. Most places the most common caliber is gonna be .50.
If you are going to order through the mail get whatever floats your boat.
There is only one kind of powder... real black:p:D

[arcticap]

Lerk,
According to the 2011 MN hunting reg's., scopes are not legal to use on muzzle loaders for deer hunting. I don't know if that will be changing anytime soon or not.

• Only open and “peep” type sights (including those with fiber optic
material) are legal during the muzzleloader deer season. Scopes, including
holographic or “red dot” scopes, are not legal for this season, except
for use of non-magnifying scopes by special permit for persons with
medically verified visual impairments.

http://files.dnr.state.mn.us/rlp/regulations/hunting/2011/full_regs.pdf

Are you more interested in hunting & shooting with a modern inline muzzle loader or a traditional one?
Generally, the inlines are capable of taking deer out to 200 - 300 yards verses the traditional guns which are usually limited to 100 yards or so.
Without using a scope, they're much more equal but the inlines shooting saboted bullets usually have more potential for long range hunting accuracy than the traditional rifles shooting patched round balls or big lead conical bullets.
Because the inlines usually have a faster barrel twist, they use the more expensive bullets and powders for best performance. But whichever primer/ignition system that they have usually does provide for more reliable ignition.
The modern inlines have many different designs, barrel lengths and manufacturers. They all shoot pretty much the same except for when shooting at the much longer distances. Then the more expensive guns, bullets and powders tend to shoot somewhat better. But I don't know how much of a factor that long distance shooting would be unless you wanted to target shoot using a scope when not deer hunting which a lot of folks like to do during the off season.
But selecting which gun, powder and bullets to buy still comes down to price and how much money that a person wants to spend.
Inline rifles can cost anywhere from $150 to almost $1000, and traditional guns have a similar price range. And then there's the added cost of accessories and ammunition which can easily cost $75 - $150 or more.
While most all of the traditional guns are able to shoot the more affordable patched round ball ammo, most of them are not geared for mounting a scope or using the hotter 209 primers.
Do you want a traditional or modern inline muzzle loader, and how much are you looking to spend on just the rifle?

[ThorinNNY]

Lerk,
You cant`t wrong if you follow tool slinger`s advice.

[Busyhands94]

For calibers I'd suggest a .50, the recoil isn't too bad and they can be accurate guns. .50 caliber accessories and ammunition are available at most gun shops, and are usually not too expensive. No need to be dropping $25 on a twelve pack of saboted bullets either, I'd suggest casting your own. It's not too hard to do actually, I haven't put a single factory made round through my rifle and I've shot plenty of rounds through it.

There's also the versatility factor, 30 grains of FFFG (pistol granulation powder) and a round ball will give you something you can kill rabbits and squirrel with. 80 grains and a conical bullet will effectively kill deer.

The .50 caliber muzzleloader is also one of the most common calibers on the market, you can find inline .50's for less than 100 dollars sometimes.

Powder comes in several basic granulation sizes. FG is the coarsest and is used for cannons, muskets and big bores, FFG is for use in rifles 45 and up, FFFG is for use in pistols and small caliber rifles, and FFFFG is the finest granulation and is used for priming the pan of a flintlock.

Of course they have pelletized powder, usually it comes in 50 grain pellets. It's a cylinder of compressed powder with a hole through the middle to aid in ignition. Pyrodex, Hodgdon Triple Seven, and Jim Shockey's are a few brands of pelletized powder. Keep in mind that these companies offer loose powder as well. Pellets are easier to handle due to being one object you drop down the bore, no measuring.

Another good option if you are a hands-on kind of guy is to build your own rifle from a kit. Dixie Gun Works sells some good rifle kits. You get to assemble the rifle, fit everything, blue the metal parts, stain and finish the stock, do any carving or customization that you'd like and make it your own. My first BP rifle was made from a kit.

Some accessories for a percussion muzzleloader you'd need are powder, caps, and balls or bullets. Something to measure your powder with (Dixie Gun Works has an adjustable measure) a good short starter to make life easier on you, a powder flask or horn, patches for round balls, some BP lube, a ball puller, patch puller, cleaning patches, and if you want to not be old fashioned you can use a range rod. Sadly my ramrod that came with my rifle broke, so I ended up making one with a wooden dowel and an empty .357 Magnum casing.

I hope I didn't miss any accessories, if you notice that I did then please feel free to add something.

Take care!
~Levi

[Lerk]

Thank you for all of the help, on of info there to wade through. I did make it down to the LGS today and browsed around. No specifc ones really grabbed at me but I was more there for info then a specifc gun. Talked with a few fellows there whom I trust very well and after their suggestions I have a better direction, and also have all of this good advice here.

Using iron sights is no big deal, actually prefer them in most instances.

So far what I've decided is a modern inline muzzleloader, using 209 primers. Probably will stick to powder (probably blackhorn) instead of pellets, the handloader in me would never forgive me for using a preset load :)
And definitely going to stick with the .50 cal tons of components for them around here (at least for now)

Now I would like the option to use both sabot and ball rounds, is that a possibility and if so what are the requirements of the rifle to use both effectively. If that's not possible, I'm going to stick with sabots. Haven't gotten into casting yet so that's not an option.

As for budget, don't really have one set, would be happy spending up to $300-$400 for a nice one. But I'm definitely going to check out those kits from Dixie, that would be a great project to count for some credits at college.

[zimmerstutzen]

in-lines are engineered strictly for bullets, although round balls can be shot with very light loads. Yes there are a few round ball in-lines around, but not unless you go far out of your way to find them.

Some states have traditional muzzleloader seasons which require a side lock gun. Don't know about MN or it's surrounding states. A few states recently moved away from in-lines. In that event, you may want to reconsider a side lock percussion gun.

[arcticap]

Although it's the most expensive, BlackHorn 209 is an excellent powder that largely eliminates the need for swabbing in between shots which is considered to be an inconvenience when using any other powder.
Where money can be saved shooting saboted bullets is by buying the components in bulk. One hunting bullet known for excellent results with inlines that are sold in bulk are the Speer Deep Curl rifle bullets which are the same as the Speer Gold Dots that are used for pistol cartridge reloading. The .451 - .452 bullets having 250 - 300 grain weights are the most popular.
You may need to experiment with a few of the different sabots and bullet weight combinations. Once those that shoot better are determined then less expensive but similar weight lead bullets can be substituted for the jacketed ones to practice with and for shorter distances.

There's 2 major sabot manufacturers that make several different .50 sabots each that are made to fit several size bullets including .40, .430, .452, and .458. And sabots have slight variations in diameter and petal designs to help custom fit the loads to your barrel. Blackhorn prefers tighter fitting sabots that create a good seal in the barrel.

http://www.mmpsabots.com/

http://www.harvesterbullets.com/

Also be aware that the standard breech plug that comes with some of the latest CVA rifles doesn't work very well with Blackhorn 209 powder. CVA has recently introduced an optional breech plug that works with it but must be purchased separately for ~$20.95.

http://www.cva.com/

And Blackhorn 209 ignites best with the hotter 209 primers like the CCI 209M, the Federal 209A and the Remington STS primer.

[Lerk]

Just checked the MN regulations, nothing stated about inlines, so I think I'm good there.

And thank you for the links, I'll page through them to see what I fine. And no problem with the 209's and blackhorn, have a ton of CCI 209's sitting here.

[Pancho]

If your first ML is going to be an inline I would suggest from my personal experience the Lyman Mustang. It is a hammerless break open action which aids in the cleaning and inspection of the barrel. All sabots are not created equal. Some leave trace amounts of plastic in the bore that is hard to see but can build up enough to prevent loading your last roundl
As a experienced reloader you wii appreceate the sudden gratifcaton of v=being able to change the various varibles at the range and realize the resultsof yuor changes

[josmund]

Lerk,

Nothing wrong with picking up a used gun at an auction or in a shop somewhere to give it a go.

If you know guns , it's pretty easy to pick out the ones that have been cared for. Just be sure the barrel and action are clean and have been cleaned after shooting . A bore scope is important. Lot's of cheap junk to sort through so look for a quality name.

Warning!! Warning!!! I did this 5-6 years ago and now I have a dozen in various calibers / models and my CF rifles have been pushed out of the gun cabinet. It can be addictive.

[Lerk]

Going to talk with the relatives tomorrow, they're big gun nuts as well and I'm sure they have more than a few of them that I can take out and play with and see what I like. I know for a fact there are a few CVA's and Thompson's hidden in there. Hoping to come across a Lyman mustang too now after getting so many recommendations about them.

[ChrisHarris]

So far what I've decided is a modern inline muzzleloader, using 209 primers.

:barf:

I-lines are the same as a modern centerfire. :barf:

Why even bother? Might as well just stick to the modern centerfire stuff like a 30-06 or a 270.

[Lerk]

Eh gotta start somewhere

And just to add to that, I've started saving up some cash to pick up one of the Lyman Great Plains Rifle Kit or a Remington New Model Army Kit from Dixie's in the fall or winter to build. Do those count for true BP guns :rolleyes: