Maybe time to change grocery stores


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Samari Jack
May 22, 2012, 10:27 AM
There have been five robberies in a local chain grocery store in NC that stays open 24 hours, all well publicized in the paper. The incidents all happened late at night. Ha--Te--, the grocery store is considering placarding their stores as no CCW stores.

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ldsgeek
May 22, 2012, 12:53 PM
There have been five robberies in a local chain grocery store in NC that stays open 24 hours, all well publicized in the paper. The incidents all happened late at night. Ha--Te--, the grocery store is considering placarding their stores as no CCW stores.
So, they think they've been robbed by legal carriers? This is another example of a ban the criminals will ignore, and they'll get robbed more.

T Bran
May 22, 2012, 12:59 PM
Nothing like publisizing the fact that you are now completely vulnerable even at peak hours for sales during the day. Now at least the robbers wont be sleep deprived when they show up at noon.
I would be looking to purchaes my food elsewhere as well.
T

walker944
May 22, 2012, 01:14 PM
I guess they are perfectly happy giving their money away to the criminals; but just don't want the robbers getting hurt by any good the guys in the process....and certainly don't want good guys defending themselves if the robbers get more bold. Who knows what they might be thinking!

Kiln
May 23, 2012, 07:03 AM
So, they think they've been robbed by legal carriers? This is another example of a ban the criminals will ignore, and they'll get robbed more.
Probably not more, but definately just as much. Banning people practicing legal concealed carry won't stop them from getting robbed and the very idea shows just how dumb some people are.

Sam1911
May 23, 2012, 09:24 AM
So is the "Activism" call to action simply to boycott the store (which you didn't name)?

Do you have contact info for the store's corporate management that maybe folks could send a letter or email to, or perhaps call and voice their opinion to?

Kind of hard to be active activists if we don't even know which store you're talking about.

hso
May 23, 2012, 10:25 AM
If you want to preempt such foolish behavior on the part of the grocery store you should talk to the general manager at the one of the stores that was robbed and point out the following.

Since they weren't robbed by a carry permit holder posting the property will not affect criminals who rob their stores. It will only affect legal permit holders who are no threat to them.

If they post their stores as prohibiting legal permit holders they will force them to leave their firearms in their cars in the parking lots where they might be stolen or they will cause the valued customers to take their business to the competition.

Obviously, the criminals that rob their stores are not their customer demographic, BUT the permit holders are. In this tough economy we have the funds to purchase an expensive firearm, pay for permits and training and undergo background checks for the permit and every time we purchase a firearm. Meaning, we have the money they want and turning away our business is poor business on their part.

Talk the manager about this and ask if they'd help you talk to the corporate management about it. If they don't want to talk we can then elevate this to a state or national campaign of RKBA advocates sending in the message they shouldn't change policy and that we'd be willing to refuse to give them our money on a national level.

BCRider
May 23, 2012, 12:46 PM
Instead of this they should offer a small incentive discount to anyone that flashes their permit at the till. More licensed and law abiding CCW holders means more gun toting GOOD people in the store and that would have to make the typical smash and grab guy think twice about holding up such a store.

Like the safest spot in the world to open a store such as this would be across the street from a cop shop and offer a discount to police as a "Thankyou" for their efforts. You gotta KNOW that this would be the last place in town that would ever be held up.... :D

pkariher
May 23, 2012, 01:21 PM
All of those stores here in the RTP area already have the signage. I had not heard about this story.

Ryanxia
May 23, 2012, 02:55 PM
Well said HSO.

Corporate/management level contact expression our concerns are always a good first step, especially when they haven't put up the ban yet but are only considering it at this point.

hermannr
May 23, 2012, 03:05 PM
If they want to stop these robberies they should make it a requirement to work there to have a concealed permit,,,and advertise that requirement.

Then they should promenetly post all Legal weapons are welcome. As soon as the robbers find out that the store can, and will, protect itself, the robberies will stop. The BGs will look for easier victims.

Skribs
May 23, 2012, 03:26 PM
Herman, I used to work for a grocery store, and there are a lot of people I wouldn't want armed who worked there.

Many employees at grocery stores are in the 16-20 range, which excludes them from CCW.

paramedic70002
May 23, 2012, 05:22 PM
They want to avoid an armed citizen escalating the robbery to a shooting event. Never mind that if the robbers are the same people, they are destined to escalate the violence, or at least eventually run into one of us, an heroic yet unarmed citizen, or an off duty LEO. A better idea would be to post a sign that says:


"Concealed carry of firearms is discouraged by this business. Open carry in a holster is encouraged. Let us see your guns and get 5% off your total!"

Certaindeaf
May 23, 2012, 05:33 PM
They want to avoid an armed citizen escalating the robbery to a shooting event..
No they don't, it's for political backscratchery/brainwashing.

Neverwinter
May 23, 2012, 06:57 PM
They want to avoid an armed citizen escalating the robbery to a shooting event. Never mind that if the robbers are the same people, they are destined to escalate the violence, or at least eventually run into one of us, an heroic yet unarmed citizen, or an off duty LEO.
It's sensible for them to want to minimize their liability. Wherever else it occurs doesn't matter as long as it's not in their store. NIMBY.

Sent using Tapatalk 2

Skribs
May 23, 2012, 07:04 PM
Now that I think more about this, I remember the LP policy we had at Alberton's, which was to not physically try to stop a theft, but rather to just try to deter them by letting them know their presence is known (i.e. not even "stop stealing" but just offer good CS). The reason was twofold:

1) When I went through orientation, the manager (who was definitely over 6 feet and average build) said he went after a guy who stole something (who was definitely under 6 feet), and the next thing he knows he's waking up in the hospital. His manager told him "I think he got you with his foot."

2) Apparently a while back, a group of employees at another chain (I believe it was Walmart or Safeway, but I remember it was a big competitor) chased a thief out of the store and beat him to death. After that, most grocery stores have had very strict limits on what employees are allowed to do. Even if there isn't a lawsuit, the story in the paper "hungry man tragically dies after being beaten by angry employees" would really hurt business.

Elm Creek Smith
May 23, 2012, 07:21 PM
It's quite simple. If they post their stores, don't give them your business and tell them why.

ECS

Lex Luthier
May 24, 2012, 08:31 AM
There was an attempted robbery last night at a store in NC, and the clerk got them both. They think there was a third wheelman who got away. The story is on theblaze.com.

230RN
May 24, 2012, 09:37 AM
The real solution is simple. They should put up a sign that says,

"No Robbers Allowed In This Store."

That orta do the trick.

But seriously, I'd like verification that the store management actually said they are "... considering placarding their stores as no CCW stores," or just "no guns."

Newspapers and other news media do foul up on these little details. Or so I've heard. Especially if the editorial staff has one of those "agenda" things I've been hearing about lately.

Terry, 230RN

Gtimothy
May 24, 2012, 10:25 AM
I like the idea of a 5% discount if you show your CCW card at checkout! :D

I also printed out a bunch of the cards that have been on other threads, to hand out to Anti CCW businesses.

If all we do is boycott without explaining why, it accomplishes nothing. Businesses need to know why their sales are flagging in certain areas otherwise they learn nothing and carry on with the status quo.

speedway
May 24, 2012, 10:58 PM
So is the "Activism" call to action simply to boycott the store (which you didn't name)?

Do you have contact info for the store's corporate management that maybe folks could send a letter or email to, or perhaps call and voice their opinion to?

Kind of hard to be active activists if we don't even know which store you're talking about.
Harris Teeter Inc.
Attn: Customer Relations
PO Box 10100
Matthews, NC 28106-0100

1-800-432-6111

customerrelations@harristeeter.com

Resto Guy
May 24, 2012, 11:09 PM
They began posting stores (against carry) a few years ago and the backlash caused them to reverse policy and remove the signs. I'm surprised that it has resurfaced.

Ala Dan
May 25, 2012, 08:33 PM
The last grocery store robbery locally, occurred shortly after 0700 hrs as the
store was preparing for the days business; and resulted in the shooting death
of the store's (Torme Grocery) meat cutter. This crime remains unsolved here
in "The Marvel City"=Bessemer, AL.

jim in Anchorage
May 26, 2012, 01:31 PM
This is why I love Alaska. I don't need to bring a gun into my grocery store, I can just walk over to their sporting goods department and buy one.

coalman
May 26, 2012, 02:51 PM
the grocery store is considering placarding their stores as no CCW stores
Yep, those signs stops criminals every time...
http://www.michellehenry.fr/Dang.jpg

JohnKSa
May 26, 2012, 03:01 PM
The real solution is simple. They should put up a sign that says,

"No Robbers Allowed In This Store."Exactly what I was going to post. Why try to keep out CCW holders when robbers are clearly the problem? :D

Wanderling
May 27, 2012, 01:38 PM
Exactly what I was going to post. Why try to keep out CCW holders when robbers are clearly the problem? :D
Because when a criminal shoots an innocent bystander, it's criminal's fault.

When a well meaning CCW holder engages the criminal and shoots that innocent bystander in the process, the store will get sued unless they have a clearly stated "No guns allowed" policy.

Some businesses take this chance. Some don't.

JohnKSa
May 27, 2012, 02:38 PM
My response was primarily tongue in cheek, however, since you bring it up, why couldn't the store be sued in your first scenario if they don't have a clearly stated "No robbers allowed" policy? Makes the same amount of sense.

Wanderling
May 27, 2012, 11:28 PM
My response was primarily tongue in cheek, however, since you bring it up, why couldn't the store be sued in your first scenario if they don't have a clearly stated "No robbers allowed" policy? Makes the same amount of sense.
You are not responsible for the criminal actions of complete strangers, or for the actions of your customers if they break your posted policy.

You can, however, be held partially responsible for actions of law abiding strangers committed on your business property if they acted in accordance with your business' policy.

Just as a bar owner can be sued if someone gets wasted in his bar and drives off and kills someone, so a business owner can be sued if he allows carry on his property and an innocent bystander gets shot by a customer trying to stop the robbery.

And no, the legal proceedings don't have to make sense.

JohnKSa
May 28, 2012, 12:54 AM
You can, however, be held partially responsible for actions of law abiding strangers committed on your business property if they acted in accordance with your business' policy.If a business has no policy at all about concealed handguns how could a person carrying a handgun in the store be acting in accordance with that business' policy?

Please don't read anything into the following question, I'm really just curious to know. Are you aware of any situation where a business was held legally responsible for the actions of a customer who was carrying concealed?

I understand that there's the potential for it to happen and I'm not trying to argue against that potential, I'm just curious to know if you're aware of a case where it actually has....or for the actions of your customers if they break your posted policy.So why not post a sign that says it's against store policy for patrons to accidentally shoot bystanders.And no, the legal proceedings don't have to make sense.I get that. Are you saying that you see no humor at all in the lack of sense being made? Because that's really what I'm getting at.

lechiffre
May 28, 2012, 05:47 AM
the grocery store is considering placarding their stores as no CCW stores.

I guess the robbers will have to open carry ?

Wanderling
May 28, 2012, 12:24 PM
]If a business has no policy at all about concealed handguns how could a person carrying a handgun in the store be acting in accordance with that business' policy?[/B]

Please don't read anything into the following question, I'm really just curious to know. Are you aware of any situation where a business was held legally responsible for the actions of a customer who was carrying concealed?

I understand that there's the potential for it to happen and I'm not trying to argue against that potential, I'm just curious to know if you're aware of a case where it actually has.So why not post a sign that says it's against store policy for patrons to accidentally shoot bystanders.I get that. Are you saying that you see no humor at all in the lack of sense being made? Because that's really what I'm getting at.

That's a good question. And I am not an expert. As I understand (explained to us by our HR rep long time ago and unrelated to firearms) it's a CYA thing. Allow CCW (or some other action), and you assume liability. Don't make a statement, and you have a CYA factor of 5. Make an explicit statement prohibiting CCW, and you have a CYA factor of 5000. You can still get sued regardless. But there's a difference between 50 grand in lawyer fees vs a multimillion dollar award against you.

I wonder if there are any lawyers on the board who could chime in.

mr.scott
May 28, 2012, 05:03 PM
Just because a business puts a sign up, it doesn't change any thing as far as being sued. You can sue any one or business for any reason. Businesses put out
"warning wet floor" signs, yet people still do the slip and fall then sue and win. People get hurt at amusement parks and sue and win, even though the ticket tries to absolve the park operator of liability.

This grocery store putting up a sign of no lawful carrying of a firearm only goes to show the ignorance of the management team and it's legal council. Your store would be safer by Only allowing lawful carrying of firearms as the people that lawfully carry are vastly less likely to commit a crime.

Resto Guy
May 28, 2012, 10:17 PM
Quote:
Just as a bar owner can be sued if someone gets wasted in his bar and drives off and kills someone, so a business owner can be sued if he allows carry on his property and an innocent bystander gets shot by a customer trying to stop the robbery.

I don't agree with that analogy. A bar owner makes his living solely off of alcohol consuming customers. With that comes the responsibilty to observe and limit those consuming the product.
When I go shopping for groceries, I am not supplied guns nor ammo by the grocery store owner or employees. It not their responsibilty to decide if I am fit to possess either one.

If grocery stores are responsible for customer's actions, they should be sued for letting people get fat.

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