Glued To The Bench--a growing trend?

Another warm season is upon us, and yet again at the local ranges most of the rifle shooters are sitting at the benches firing from rests.

I understand that there is a niche sport of bench rest shooting, and I understand the need to use a rest to sight in, but why do so many American rifle shooters seem unable or unwilling to fire from any stance?

Is this something others have been noting? If anything it seems to be getting worse around here, not better. This in spite of the much larger influx of vets and active duty military. There are a few younger guys using modern techniques and single point slings with AR's, but actually not that many. Why would you get a tricked-out AR and shoot it from a bench after sighting in?

What's gone wrong? What can be done to fix it? I have half a mind to print out some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot. And stance shooting requires constant practice to keep in form.

I agree with you. I grew up shooting guns from many positions - off hand. It is a valuable skill for field use. They way I see it, people shooting form benches just seem to enjoy hitting the target accurtely. It is very satisfying. Some people jsut get frustrated not hitting it on the dot.

I only bench shoot when adjusting a scope for a rifle. After that I am on my belly or on my bum with elbows resting on my knees, or even standing and hitting distant targets. I am not hoping to hit the bullseyes. I hoping to hit a water bottle sized target at 200 yards plus free hand.

Part of the reason is that a lot of people shoot, but not nearly as many hunt anymore. Another part of it is that people are lazy (myself included) - shooting 10 well positioned shots is much harder physically than sitting the rifle on some sandbags and pulling the trigger 50 times. The other thing is the obsession with miniscule groups. Most people will shoot better groups from the bench than from any stance. Comparison has in some degree fueled group size as the mark of proficiency instead of rifle familiarity while shooting in the field. For others, it's more about going to the range for fun to burn up some ammo. Thank you Cosmoline for the timely reminder that there are no benches in the field - it's time for me to stop being lazy.

I think it's about money. People send big $$$ on rifles and want to see what their rifle can do. Money can buy accuracy from a bench. Shooting offhand? Not so much.

I started shooting from a bench, but only because I was so small I couldn't hold up a rifle!

Benches are fine. If that's what the shooter wants to do, and it's his/her idea of a fun day at the range, then have at it. I surely won't protest.

Well, the bench is such a convenient place to park your equipment and the seat just looks so inviting....... . But in real life situations like hunting or combat, you don`t always have the option of shooting from a bench.:cuss:
Because of back problems I prefer to shoot standing upright rather than kneeling or prone. Sitting on a blanket down on the ground - shooting`s not so bad but getting back up again - that`s a bear with a mean disposition :eek: if you get my drift. It`s not fun gettin old, but it sure beats the alternative!:evil:

I'm with you on this idea.

I shoot from the bench to check the accuracy of my guns and reloads. I then shoot standing or in some other un-aided position to test myself.

I'd far rather hit the 200 yard gong found at my range 4 out of 10 times from a standing or kneeling self supported stance than 10/10 from a bench position.

What's a bench? :D

Maybe they are enjoying shooting from a rest? People shoot for all different reasons.

I use two guns a lot when I go to the range- a Savage .17HMR and an AK-74. I start off shooting the Savage from the bench until the first ceasefire, at which point I set up reactive targets for the AK and shoot offhand and such. I can do both, and it's fun! :D

I cannot speak for everyone, but the only reason I go to the range is to use their benches to work on load development or zero a scope. I have many other places where I can and do practice from other positions. I suspect many others do the same.

The two rifles that I shoot the most at the range are my .308 bolt gun and my AR carbine. I'll shoot my carbine from varying positions, because, well, it's a carbine.

My .308 weighs about 18lbs, so I don't do too much off hand shooting with that.

I shoot my M1As, Garands, and ARs from a bench at my local range all the time.

Big deal. That is how you do load development.

I also am shooting 4 matches per month standing, sitting, and prone. My favorite position is kneeling. Again, no big deal.

Of course someone who didn't go to the matches or see me practicing for them might assume I only shoot from a bench.

Personally I am happy to see anyone out shooting however they like. We need more voters who shoot. If they choose to shoot standing on their head it is all good with me as long as they are safe.

There may be more people trying out different new loads for their gun(s) than one realizes.

When I take my tack-driving rifle to the range, I don't want to shoot many rounds at all. I make each shot count. If there happens to be no wind at all, I just might set up a target to see how the scope is adjusted at 200 yards, seeing just how tightly I can pull a group. Yes, there is much satisfaction in shooting five shots in one ragged smaller-than dime-sized hole from the 200 yard bench off sand bags, or even off a Harris Bipod!

Once I have confirmed the rifle is dead-on (sic), I stop, as I have no desire to burn up both my handloads and also my barrel!

What's gone wrong? What can be done to fix it? I have half a mind to print out some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot. And stance shooting requires constant practice to keep in form.

Here's a crazy thought. Some people simply enjoy shooting that way. The idea this is somehow wrong or needs to be fixed is absurd. While you may not approve or believe those people "can't shoot" i would imagine and hope they couldn't care less what you think. Why on earth would somebody believe its their place to tell others how to recreate?

There are outdoor ranges in my area that forbid shooting center fire rifles off hand, rimfire is OK at 25 yards or less off hand. One outdoor range forbids loading more than three rounds into your rifle's magazine once to verify function. I'm not sure if the loading more than one ban was lifted. And I live in the GunShine State of Florida

I only do it for sighting in and some plinking with a .22 but other then that, I'm usually standing.

There are outdoor ranges in my area that forbid shooting center fire rifles off hand, rimfire is OK at 25 yards or less off hand. One outdoor range forbids loading more than three rounds into your rifle's magazine once to verify function. I'm not sure if the loading more than one ban was lifted. And I live in the GunShine State of Florida

Wouldn't shoot there at all!

Most of our hunting is done from elevated box blinds, so we almost always have a rest in the field. Plus, I'm always tinkering with different loads, and different oal, so I shoot from the bench a lot to test loads. There's nothing like seeing how small you can get those groups.

If I did much stalk hunting or hunting from my feet, I would definately practice more from those positions.

Well, i haven't seen any of this lately....
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_f1TTfqxVUw4/S7H9uNKbfzI/AAAAAAAABCQ/DuW6GMgvHfo/s640/Geo.+W.+Yale+in+Position.png

..or any top hats either. :)

Several ranges that I use do not allow rifle fire while standing or prone, it's from a bench only. When I'm at a friend's backyard range the only time we use a bench is for sighting in a scope.

..Because they like to? I mean, why is it so hard to accept that thats what they get their jollies from and thats how they prefer to shoot. Same could be said of "why did you buy a gun instead of camping/hiking gear or a motorcycle/Cruise to the bahamas/$2000 of Facebook stock?" Whatever floats their boat, is what floats their boat.

I shoot from the bench when at the shooting range because I'm testing loads for accuracy and using the bench gives me a more true picture of the potential of my loads.

I don't need to go to the shooting range if I just want to pop off a couple of rounds offhand. I can do that at the farm.

I have a 100yd home range with a bench. It is great (as noted previously) for load development. It is also great for kids that find it a little hard to hold a 22 lr rifle. Some times it's nice to just sit :)

It also helps position new shooters and formalize the process of being at the line or behind the line.

When handguns plinking it makes a great place to stage the ammo and magazines. Or water, or stapler, or targets or muffs, or...

and beside, a person should just have a shooting bench.

Today I busted a bunch of water jugs from 100 yards with my 30-30 and iron sights. I hit all of them on the first shot with a howling wind. It's practice for real world hunting conditions. I shoot from a rest when dialing in my scope or testing out a new load.

i never shoot a handgun from a rest, What's the point? It's a handgun.

Theres nothing wrong with shooting of a bench, just as long as you understand, its not a true benchmark as to what your skills are.

Most people I know shoot from a bench, and almost to a one, they seem to think that what they do from a rest on the bench is what their "skill level" is as far as shooting goes. Ask them to step away and shoot without a crutch, and the excuses start to fly right away, if they will do it at all.

I understand the load development comments, I do it on occasion myself, but even during load development, I usually shoot more from a rested prone position (bipod or ruck) than I do from a bench, as it gives a more realistic idea as to what the load will do in use. Its also a lot more comfortable when shooting a lot of rounds. Shooting from a bench isnt the most comfortable way to shoot, especially with a larger caliber gun and "working" LOP rifle stocks.

Then there's us old phaarts. My knees are bad so I don't shoot kneeling and I have tremors as a side effect from a medication. It's a joke for me to shoot a rifle offhand at more than 50 yards. I started shooting from the bench so I could continue to enjoy my rifles. So you young guns with your keen eye sight and steady hands can stuff it.:D

I don't think it's growing. Lots of people have always only shot from the bench, and lots of people still do. In fact many ranges will only allow you to shoot from a bench, particularly if they are near urban areas, they don't need a bunch of wannabes shooting over the berms.

So you young guns with your keen eye sight and steady hands can stuff it.
I like being called a "young gun", even at 57. :)

Infirmities and other issues aside, I think this question was more aimed at the those who dont have "issues".

I know when we were growing up and learning to shoot, we were not permitted to shoot off a bench. We learned to shoot from the basic field positions using a sling. When my kids were small, they learned the same way. Its not wasted time or energy, and it produces good, confidant shooters who have usable skills.

I still shoot a couple of different military type rifles 2-3 times a month. I still dry fire both rifles and pistols daily. Most of what I shoot these days rifle wise is offhand, as offhand has always been my weakest position, Im not all that bad at it, but Ive been better (an old Toby Keith song is coming to mind here :) ). I also find its the most comfortable position when you shoot a lot of 30/06 and 308 at a session.

Making match grade ammo is very labor and time consuming. I want every cartridge to count. If I want to plink standing up I will go to my stock tank and shoot cheap walmart bought bulk .22LR out of my trusty 10/22

bench rest shooting both long and short range can be a very competitive sport -or a great just for fun activity -- range is a good safe place to start/teach your children -- you might be surprised how many varmint hunters pack a small mini bench into an target rich area -- set up & spend the day -- i know i am lucky to live in idaho where just because i don't see
other hunters/plinkers or off hand shooters crowding an area doesn't mean they are not there -- quite often i can hear them doing what they like to do
best --

I want every cartridge to count.
I want every round to count too, thats why I practice and shoot like I do. I wouldnt want to have to rely on a bench to make the important shots count.

I haven't shot off a bench in some time and several of my rifles have only seen a bench for cleaning. The rifle will recoil slightly differently in a rest than in prone, so I don't even have a use for the rest to zero a rifle. If I am really unsure of how the sights are adjusted, I'll fire a few shots offhand at <25yd, then move back to 25 and then to full distance.

Why don't people use field positions? I think we have a lot of people coming into the shooting sports with little/no shooting background. I should know, I fired my first firearm at 27. Hadn't been near a gun until then. Neither of my parents had owned one either. Yeah, I spent a few years shooting rifles off benches. Nobody had shown me any different and shooting without a rest was really intimidating. I mean, I need these sandbags to hit that tiny little target all the way out there, right? Finally got some instruction (Appleseed) and really wish I had done so sooner. Much more fun, more of a test of skill and I am shooting better groups than ever before. :D I'm sure some people like shooting off the bench better, that's fine. I just don't go to ranges that force me to shoot off a bench, or at least use some improvised position sitting on the bench or such.

The idea this is somehow wrong or needs to be fixed is absurd.

Sure, it's obviously their choice. I'm not dictator of the range. I can't take away the benches. Nor would I if I could. But this is more than just whittling we're talking about. It's rifle shooting--a core part of our national identity. And I think we're sitting down more to do it because we sit down more to do *everything* now.

I'm no uber shooter type by any stretch. I'm a fat old man who can usually manage no better than 6" off hand at 100 yards. A low speed, high drag operator ;-) So if I can do low kneeling, off-hand and prone, most people should be able to. This is after all our martial art. Isn't it?

I really don't know why threads like this even get started. This topic should fall into the "live and let live" category.

As far as the original post goes, you make it sound like shooting from a bench is easy. For some, the pursuit of the all elusive zero group is something to strive for.

i dont disagree with the ones shooting from benches all the time, i just think its rediculous that some of them drive fords.

Benchrest shooting is excellent practice for sight allingment.sight picture, breath control, trigger control, and follow through. I coach two NRA Jr Rifle teams and we do about half of our shooting from the bench. Bench shooting builds confidence in equipment and is excellent training. It also helps identify and isolate minor shooting problems. If you can't shoot nice, small, round groups off the bench, your equipment, ammo, or technique needs improvement. Last week I was at my gun club where a grand-dad was forcing his 12 year old grandson to "shoot like a man, standing on his hind legs." The kid couldn't even hit the target backstop and was about to cry. I offered him some sand bags and grand dad said; "shooting from the bench is for ...deleted...." I did not punch him, but thought about it for a minute.

a niche sport of bench rest shootingAs a fellow who shot Benchrest competitively, I take some issue with that, but I do understand your point, which is a good one. I shoot off the bench to sight rifles in, and I like to shoot a few groups now and then, but much of my shooting is off hand. I do brace my old .222 Mag when popping the odd crow or two.

Anyone who never shoots offhand with their rifles, cannot consider themselves a well rounded shooter. IMHO of course.

No insult to BR shooting intended. It's an important and fascinating part of the sport. And I agree that for training it's very useful to start at the bench--or at least prone as we did in scouts.

To me, it's about trying to encourage people to do more than just sit there and cap off a few, get bored and leave. Without making them angry--because this is apparently a touchy subject for some.

People get very touchy about this topic, but the fact is that the skill of shooting is important. Knowing how to shoot and shoot well, from all positions, when it mattered is what has kept this a free nation.

I shoot weekly. Sight my rifles in, play with pistols, have a good time. I want to be comfortable. Come deer/coyote hunting I'm taking pain killers, twisted in a pretzel, shooting off hand on the wrong side 20'up a tree, sitting for six or eight hours in a climbing stand, bugs in my ears and freezing my ass off. Point is I have to be miserable hunting. I''m not going to do it at the range.

To me, it's about trying to encourage people to do more than just sit there and cap off a few, get bored and leave. Without making them angry--because this is apparently a touchy subject for some.I certainly agree with that. Just like the folks who take their pistol to the pistol pit, blast 50 rounds seemingly indiscriminately, as fast as they can, and leave. *sigh*

I get some weird looks on the 100 yard range shooting at clay pigeons on the berm, with my handguns, off hand. :)

Disipline in shooting appears to be a lost art.
Standing, kneeling sitting prone with a rifle.
Off hand 2700 bullseye.
Learn the disipline for the above, any thing else, bipod. sandbags are just another advantage, not a crutch.

Due to age & arthritis I do most or my shooting from the bench, I used t just sight in from the bench and then practice shooting off hand, pistols were mostly off hand, now due to lack of hand strength even most of my pistol in from the bench. Getting old is not for sissies.

I shoot a lot from a bench for one main reason. Its how I relax after a stressful week. I can get serious, I focus my mind on one thing, my target. Nothing else matters, nothing else worries me. Pursuing that legendary half MOA group is like therapy for me, it can remove stress and allows me to focus on something other than work.

People shoot for lots of different reasons, I shoot because its a way for me to focus 100% on something that isnt work. Now, I have my AR and my VZ-58 that get put through tactical drills, but most of my shooting is with 308 bolt actions from a bench. Its just how I relax, nothing more, nothing less.

At the end of the day, bench shooting is my therapy to cope with the stress of the daily grind. A hobby that allows me to focus and just clear my mind. Its not "real shooting," but then again I don't consider anything to be real shooting unless your on a two way range.

This is what you see at our private club at the rifle ranges. Shooting while standing is not popular at all, except at the club's handgun and skeet ranges.
Even the Wednesday matches with .22s involve scopes, and everybody seems to be sitting using a rest.

This makes no difference to me because most of my sessions are much more fun, and involve destroying solid objects elsewhere, in a "natural setting".
Shooting which seems to involve transcendental meditation, using sand bags or a soft support helps people to become familiar with a gun's accuracy and how to correct the aim.

My wife has taken multiple carbine classes with her AR, and when she practices I have had fellows ask me what she is doing.

I think those who don't work the various stances and positions are those who may not had the oppertunity to learn them, or are just out for a relaxing time with their weapons.

I also think the majority of folks on this fourm are lot more into shooting than the average gun owner.

It does seem that most folks are obsessed with the bench so they can get the tightest groups out of their rifles.

But it's a lot more fun to shoot from the 4 positions, in my view.

So sight 'em in and then shoot like they taught you in the service. Or the Boy Scouts. Or Applesseed.

I do understand those who have physical constraints. Getting a bit long in the tooth myself. Plopping down into prone and back up again's not as easy as it once was. But I do it anyway from time to time.

Another warm season is upon us, and yet again at the local ranges most of the rifle shooters are sitting at the benches firing from rests.

I understand that there is a niche sport of bench rest shooting, and I understand the need to use a rest to sight in, but why do so many American rifle shooters seem unable or unwilling to fire from any stance?

Is this something others have been noting? If anything it seems to be getting worse around here, not better. This in spite of the much larger influx of vets and active duty military. There are a few younger guys using modern techniques and single point slings with AR's, but actually not that many. Why would you get a tricked-out AR and shoot it from a bench after sighting in?

What's gone wrong? What can be done to fix it? I have half a mind to print out some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot. And stance shooting requires constant practice to keep in form.

Another warm season is upon us and I can't for the life of me understand why someone again feels compelled to worry about show someone else is spending their time at the range. If they aren't shooting your ammo, and they are conducting themselves in a safe manner, and their muzzle blast isn't knocking you out of your firing position.....who cares if they have it parked at the bench?

Nothing has gone wrong. Nothing needs to be fixed. Sorry...but the last thing I need at the range is a nanny mom telling me what they think I should be doing and how I should be doing it.

That being said, I spent my last training class (this past December) prone for 4 days shooting my Savage 10 FCP HS-Precision out to 600 yds. I'll shoot from a non-bench position when I feel like doing so. Simple enough.

At the local range it is bench shooting only, once the guns are sighted in and load development is over most practice shooting takes place 3hrs away where there is property to shoot at. If someone does not hunt or does not plan on using a firearm in a SHTF situation then shoot what ever way you like, and have fun, but if a shooter hunts I believe you owe it to your quarry to practice field positions if for no other reason than knowing your true limitations. Sorry but I have tracked to many gut shot deer due to poor preparations on the hunters part.

I shoot from a bench so I can: tweak powders, bullets, dope wind, understand effects of barrel heating, develope cleaning schedules, adjust the trigger, and learn to control breathing, trigger pull, flinch. In another words learn to shoot my rifle to its absolute potential. When I have acheived it I will begin to shoot from sitting, kneeling, and prone.:)

I had -NO- rifle training. I just tried to copy what I saw in the movies, which was never bench shooting.

My accuracy improved after my stance changed. A bit more after I realized the sling can be used for more than carrying the rifle. It got a lot better after I combined that with a kneeling position. I am now confident in my ability to effectively operate 1 of my 3 rifles (the one I've shot the most).

I was at a friends house showing off my targets and someone said, "my grouping is a tenth of that size!" I asked him to go shooting with me. (Perhaps I could learn a thing or two!)

We get to the shooting pit (50~60yds) and he pulls his rifle out of the case. It has a bipod and a little "peg leg" at the back. I watched while he took a few shots and adjusted the gun. Sure enough, when we retrieved the target, the hole was small enough I ripped it putting my thumb in it.

I shot the next target from my kneeling position. Got a fist size grouping.

Ask them to step away and shoot without a crutch, and the excuses start to fly right away, if they will do it at all.

After he got done ribbing me about how much better a shot he was, I challenged him to a 5rd "unbenched" shootoff. Once again, I had a fist size group. 3 of his rounds hit the target. But ... "the sun was in his eyes" and "the wind was blowing". :rolleyes:

After I got done ribbing him about how much better a shot I was, we started debating the use of a benchrest.

Without making them angry--because this is apparently a touchy subject for some.

We decided to call it a truce when it started to get heated. We no longer discuss benchrest versus freehand. I still go shooting with him, he still uses his tripod gun, and still tells everyone he shoots better than me. Oh well, at least I dont have to walk up the mountain alone.

I also think the majority of folks on this fourm are lot more into shooting than the average gun owner.
^I thought I was a "gun nut" until I joined this site. I'm very novice in comparison to some of you, but I'll catch up! :neener:

I shoot my AR's and normal rifles from a standing or kneeling position, but I have rifles that I simply cannot fire (unable to hold them without a bench)from either of those. I personally love to shoot offhand, but see no problem with anyone shooting only from a bench. I would hate to try to make people shoot their firearms, in a way they dont prefer. To me that would be almost as bad as taking my firearms.

I cannot speak for everyone, but the only reason I go to the range is to use their benches to work on load development or zero a scope. I have many other places where I can and do practice from other positions. I suspect many others do the same.
+10

Most "ranges" have far to many rules to go play run and gun games unless it's a organized match.

Over half my shooting is on private or blm land, but I like the bench for checking new builds, new reloads, scope installs and zeroing.

Anybody care to guess just how many shooters have access to open land in rural areas where they can wander and do casual off-hand or other field-position shooting?

If the range doesn't allow free-style shooting, and you don't have open-land access, what do you do?

Pssh... You want to complain about bench shooting... I see people do it at the PISTOL range!

Like others here have mentioned, some outdoor ranges near me have a bar for the barrel to be under or a slit for the barrel to poke through. This only allows bench shooting at those particular gun ranges.

Urban sprawl crowding around old gun ranges has caused this. Before the sprawl, you could shoot in just about any safe shooting position. Now, there is a fear of elevated shots being fired into neighborhoods.

Sure, it's obviously their choice. I'm not dictator of the range. I can't take away the benches. Nor would I if I could. But this is more than just whittling we're talking about. It's rifle shooting--a core part of our national identity. And I think we're sitting down more to do it because we sit down more to do *everything* now.

Maybe just be glad so many people are shooting. You may feel rifle shooting, or doing so a certain way, is part of our core identity but the great thing about america is everybody can have their own idea about what makes the country great. No one thing defines our country, or any country for that matter. I believe a much more important core identity is freedom of choice and the "live and let live attitude".

Zombie and Red Dawn fantasies aside there is little real world practical application to being a proficient rifleman for the vast majority of citizens. Early america was a very different place and good marksmanship had very important life or death applications. Today the vast majority of civilian shooters do so because they enjoy it. As far as i'm concerned thats a very good thing.

Besides, if you go around a range trying to tell people about what positions they need to shoot from they are likely to advise you to get in a kneeling position to kiss their backside. :)

Most public ranges in the DFW area require you to shoot benched. I know one indoor range that will let you shoot standing on their rifle range, but it's only 50 yards.

While I do prefer shooting offhand, I like to bench shoot as well. It's relaxing. :)

While i don't question the legitimacy of benchrest shooting, to me it's kinda like "bench racing." Saying your car makes 500hp is fine and all, but can you DRIVE it?

Similarly, a 1/2 MOA rifle/scope/ammo combination is impressive, but if i stood you in a field and told you to shoot a 200/300/400 yard gong from a field position, could you do it?

Bench performance represents good equipment, field performance represents a good shooter, IMO. Shooting from a bench requires you to read conditions correctly and set up accordingly. Requires mental training. Field positions add to this, control over the body as well. Physical conditioning.

Perhaps this is why benchrest popularity is increasing. Americans love their "stuff" love buying it, love bragging about it. We're not so keen, in general, on training our bodies to perform on the same level. I personally am working on my cardio right now, because even mild exertion raises my BP and heart rate enough to throw off my aim, and that bugs me.

I agree with the OP. On the other hand, plenty of people enjoy more the challenge of shooting sub-MOA from a rest than 2-3 MOA from a standing position.

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot. The irony is many ranges are apparently dictating that shooters must use the bench. So if there's a dictatorial trend--it's from the other direction. Apparently due to some grossly misplaced safety concerns.

But again, if fewer and fewer people even bother to learn how to shoot from the stances, then there will be less and less pressure on ranges to change such ridiculous policies.

Zombie and Red Dawn fantasies aside there is little real world practical application to being a proficient rifleman for the vast majority of citizens. Early america was a very different place and good marksmanship had very important life or death applications.

This really underscores the importance of my position. Rifles are in fact considerably more effective than handguns in *ANY* application save concealed carry. From home defense to hunting. To regard rifles as an antiquated curiosity, or relic from a bygone age, has negative political as well as practical implications. Not only will rifle shooters be less competent, but there will be more pressure to ban the "dangerous relics."

Appleseed has been doing great things in this regard, but I think all of us can do more. Most of us are likely to be in a position to train newbies at some point. Why not include some basic stance shooting? Starting with prone, high keeling, sitting and the other more stable stances, for example.

Again, I'm not telling anyone they *HAVE* to. I have no such authority. It's just a question of whether you want to see rifle shooting restricted to an exercise in ballistics or keep it part of our shooting heritage.

Obviously we all get our enjoyment from doing things differently. And that's fine. I'd never take anyone to task over their choice. Well.... other than a little good natured ribbing if they were the sort that would take it as intended.

What bothers me more is the mention of the ranges that restrict rifle positions to strictly benched shooting. For similar reasons I get choked when I find out that I can't shoot my .44Mag handgun out to longer distances on the rifle range instead of being limited to 50 yards as found on the handgun range.

It seems a little odd that we firearms owners complain about how the various liberal types want to "socially engineer" the population out of gun ownership but then we turn around and find our own people limiting how we use our firearms to the point of being rediculous.

It seems a little odd that we firearms owners complain about how the various liberal types want to "socially engineer" the population out of gun ownership but then we turn around and find our own people limiting how we use our firearms to the point of being rediculous.


There may be some truth to that, but I don't think there's so many instances of someone restricting your ability to shoot from whatever stance you want out of fear, ignorance, or some will to dominate. Usually I see these as a range owner taking steps to control the chances of rounds leaving HIS property and causing damage which HE would be liable for. This may include "baffles" or barriers to limit the arc you can describe with your muzzle, limits on where or how close you may place targets, limits on what kind of shooting you can do in which bays/pits or on the line.

Our range is fabulously accommodating, with weekly IDPA practice, monthly NTI "study days," frequent tactical/self-defense trainers coming through, multiple monthly competitions in various "practical" disciplines -- yet we still have many of these controls in place to avoid any (additional :rolleyes:) errors.

And yet, I still see folks doing things (or evidense thereof) which seem destined to defeat our best measures. People shooting at heavy steel plates with .22s -- ricochets coming back uprange. People who've shot up furniture and even the range instruction signs intended to help them keep safe. Sad, really. We'll be the death of our own sport ... maybe.

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot

It might be because of the comments that you are making. It would be nice if we lived in the 19th century, but I like indoor plumbing better. And I am sure that the millions of residents in the area I live in would like bullets wipping past their kids and homes. Besides asphalt and concret shopping centers parking lots are not the most comfortable places to shoot prone or sitting.

So why do we bench rest shoot, might have something to do with my having to drive and hour and a half to even get to a place where I can even fire my rifles.

You can do what ever you want, but I am going to be more respectful of other peoples choices.

Jim

Reasons that I Shoot From A Bench (sometimes)

1. Sighting in the rifle

2. Developing handloads

3. The range does not allow me to use field positions (virtually every rifle range I have been to)

4. A way to eliminate variables to work on a specific technique: i.e. trigger control, breath control

5. I want to see what the rifle can do on a given day.

I shoot thousands of rounds in field positions with my trusty GI sling, been to appleseeds and all that, shoot IPSC..blah blah.

But I still like to sit on the bench now and then and try to breakdown specific skills. How's my trigger control today? Hows my breathing? How am I reading the wind?

Eliminating the field position and replacing it with a bench can be a diagnostic tool because it eliminates a variable. Even with the rifle on a rest, its not like it shoots itself. Trigger and breathing are still very important.

It might be because of the comments that you are making. It would be nice if we lived in the 19th century, but I like indoor plumbing better. And I am sure that the millions of residents in the area I live in would like bullets wipping past their kids and homes. Besides asphalt and concret shopping centers parking lots are not the most comfortable places to shoot prone or sitting.
How is that relevant to the point regarding skill degradation due to restricted practice methods?

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Anybody care to guess just how many shooters have access to open land in rural areas where they can wander and do casual off-hand or other field-position shooting?

If the range doesn't allow free-style shooting, and you don't have open-land access, what do you do?

Wisdom from a fellow senior,:D very little area where I live to move and shoot, and yes even as I near 70 would still enjoy that with my AR. In my youth I lived in free America where folks would allow young guys to shoot but much of that is long gone.Having said all that if i were hunting today I would still select a rest to shoot from for a one shot kill. Move and shooting off hand and other positions are more suited for combat IMO. I'm Wingman and I'm a bench shooter.;)

I like to shoot off hand... I also like the bench, but I don't use the bench a whole lot. I hate kneeling, and prone is just dirty in the places I shoot, so unless I remember a mat, it's off hand or the bench.

I'm not sure why some folks are thinking I'm trying to dictate how they should shoot.

Because this comes off that way:
"What's gone wrong? What can be done to fix it? I have half a mind to print out some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot."

This really underscores the importance of my position. Rifles are in fact considerably more effective than handguns in *ANY* application save concealed carry. From home defense to hunting.

For home defense distances i see very little if any relevance with being proficient in various positions and most hunters i know shoot with some type of support which i personally believe is more ethical.

To regard rifles as an antiquated curiosity, or relic from a bygone age, has negative political as well as practical implications. Not only will rifle shooters be less competent, but there will be more pressure to ban the "dangerous relics."

Thats a massive leap. What positions people shoot their rifles in has nothing to do with pressure to ban them. People either believe in a right to own said rifles or they don't. A guy who likes to collect military style rifles can opposes their banning just as much as guy who shoots standing.

What positions people shoot their rifles in has nothing to do with pressure to ban them.

I was addressing your particular claim that rifles are antiquated and we really don't need to bother with the stances anymore. That's wrong as a practical matter, and it doesn't take much imagination to see how almost exactly the same arguments can (and are) used by the antis.

Which reenforces my larger point here--we need to keep the art of rifle shooting alive if we want to keep rifle shooting. These reports of ranges requiring everyone to shoot at the bench are extremely disturbing. And it doesn't appear to be isolated.

For home defense distances i see very little if any relevance with being proficient in various positions and most hunters i know shoot with some type of support which i personally believe is more ethical.

Some kind of support is not the same as a bench. And since you're most likely to be operating off-hand in home defense, it's pretty important to practice regularly in that stance if you're using a long gun for home defense. As far as hunting, even if you have a nice stump handy, you're still going to need to be proficient enough to bring down an animal that bolts up as you approach after being wounded. And knowledge of and practice in the stances helps make available resting surfaces *more* stable.

Nobody is stopping you from using a bench, but it does seem odd to be so virulently against encouraging people to actually get out of the comfy chair.

We are lucky here to have large open spaces. Most everyone I know can shoot offhand because it is often the only shot you get. Sagebrush is too wimpy for a rest, but keeps all shots shoulder level or higher. I sight in from a bench, but shoot a few sitting and offhand during a trip to my shooting area.

If I'm going to the range to shoot, it's either to sight in an optic, or test a weapon after some work/upgrades. No place at my range to get prone. You can, of course, stand and shoot unsupported.

I was addressing your particular claim that rifles are antiquated and we really don't need to bother with the stances anymore. That's wrong as a practical matter, and it doesn't take much imagination to see how almost exactly the same arguments can (and are) used by the antis.

I wouldn't necessarily call rifles antiquated. Even if they aren't necessary for survival in modern life i still see them as a protected right with valid uses. Many things aren't necessary but that doesn't mean one must support banning them. More people shooting in different stances isn't going to convince an "anti" that rifles are necessary for modern life either.

Which reenforces my larger point here--we need to keep the art of rifle shooting alive if we want to keep rifle shooting. These reports of ranges requiring everyone to shoot at the bench are extremely disturbing. And it doesn't appear to be isolated.

One of my local ranges recently went to this policy. I'm not a range owner who deals with the associated liability and insurance issues so i really don't have room to criticize. But given the increasing popularity of rifle shooting, even with more bench shooting, i think our right to shoot rifles are pretty secure compared to other periods in time.


Some kind of support is not the same as a bench. And since you're most likely to be operating off-hand in home defense, it's pretty important to practice regularly in that stance if you're using a long gun for home defense.

Knowing how to line up sights and operate a firearm is about all one needs to hit a target across a room. Not to mention the vast majority of HD shootings actually occur with handguns.

Nobody is stopping you from using a bench, but it does seem odd to be so virulently against encouraging people to actually get out of the comfy chair.

I realize nobody is stopping me and i actually do enjoy shooting from various positions with prone being my favorite. I do however object to the notion that your preffered way of shooting is right and another is wrong and in need of being fixed. Ultimately the vast majority of shooters do it for fun. Its that simple.

What i find odd is how virulently your are criticizing how others shoot. If you want to help others learn how to shoot from different positions thats great. But only do so to those who seek assistance.

This thread seems...familiar: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=601678

Unfortunately there aren't that many "open" or even IPSC ranges out there, and the ranges still open to the public not only wouldn't care to see a "walk down" competition offhand from 100 yards to 50 firing 60 rounds with two magazine swaps (one "competition" a friend and I in the service used to enjoy, moving forward while firing).

So I bought 40 acres in the middle of nowhere, heavily wooded, and I'm cutting some trails and distance shots into it, along with a few backstops and buffers to make sure nothing goes stray that doesn't go up. Maybe I'll have it finished when I'm still young enough to use it . . . Right now I don't even have my happy hunting cabin built yet, and I've had the land 5 years now.

I've gone out there a few times and done some shooting, and there's nothing like not having to worry about the range officer getting irritated about FMJ ammo to keep the bullet budget intact. Having to buy 168gr BTHP Match ammo instead of using my existing supply of military grade 168 grain sniper ammo was getting to be a pain.

I shoot mostly NATO standard calibers in non-shotguns, where I prefer the 20ga to the 12, if not for geese. I have some exceptions, but not counting .22's, my "rifles of WWII" collection, and some old Winchester rifles, not many.

Despite a rather large collection I have not a single AK clone. Mostly because I can't find one anywhere that has a milled receiver that costs less than your soul.

I am new to shooting rifles and have turned into one of those shooters who spend their range time at the bench, mainly for working up loads, but I haven't really thought about the importance of shooting from practical real life positions. I do practice defensive pistol shooting drills, so you would think it would be obvious.

Any good resources? I only have "hunting" accurate rifles no $4000 precision shooters in my gun cabinet:banghead:

Country Ugly defines a Shooting Bench - {common} a fallen tree about 30 inches off the ground {fancy} A well placed 5 gallon bucket positioned off the side of a Chevrolet tail gate with a field pack for stability, support and elevation adjustments.

I belong to a shooting club that has about 400 members and I shoot my rifles two or three times a month all year long. I never shoot from a bench and I use three shooting positions. Very seldom do I ever see another rifle shooter fire a shot except from the bench. They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless. To me it equates to the fact that 20% of the hunters take 80% of the deer, 20% of the fisherman catch 80% of the fish, and 20% of the single men catch 80% of the single women. If you read this note and want to join that 20% go down to the range and practice the basic positions. Prone is the least important because in real life it is hard to shoot over grass, weeks and brush but sitting and offhand are most important. BW

Any good resources? I only have "hunting" accurate rifles no $4000 precision shooters in my gun cabinet:banghead:

Attend an Project Appleseed event. The Marksmanship they teach is all based on field positions and using the GI web sling.

There is nothing wrong or broken, people shoot for enjoyment. That can mean different things to different people. I can spend hours on end with my 700 mil spec or savage lrpv chasing sub 1/2 moa groups and still be bummed when it's time to leave. Shooting an sks capable of 2.5-3moa, offhand which probably increases the group size to 5-6moa, bores me to tears in about 5 minutes. TO each their own though, I don't feel a need to say all rifles not capable of at least moa should be scrapped, but personally I have little use for one.

They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless.
I'm not against practicing from many positions, but I've shot 50+ big game animals, and exactly 2 were without some sort of rest(backpack, bipod, log, etc...) And both were at less than 50 yards. There is some dependence on the type of terrain you hunt, but certainly shooting offhand at long distances is not a requirement to be quite successful harvesting big game. And the statement is even more silly when applied to defense situations. Aside from fantasy apocalypse scenarios, "defense situations" will by definition occur at close range. Even 25 yards seems like it would be hard to defend in court as "self defense". And hitting a human size target at 25 yards(or most likely much less), does not require a great deal of actual marksmanship. Weapon familiarity, calm under stress, and common sense are much more important.



To me it equates to the fact that 20% of the hunters take 80% of the deer, 20% of the fisherman catch 80% of the fish, and 20% of the single men catch 80% of the single women.
Very true, but these numbers have nothing to do with the ability to shoot from different positions.

Must have been ten years since I shot off a bench. Now across the truck hood, top of a rock, leaning on a tree, sitting braced up against something, yep, I'm guilty. But I do enjoy just walking and busting rocks offhand at varying distances, &c.

Any good resources?

Stormin, this public domain US Army training film on the Garand represents the classic stances quite well:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6p_Cftp9QE

There are of course many little variations and styles. This is another good, detailed resource showing Marine training from the late 90's:

http://www.amazon.com/Marine-Corps-Marksmanship-Sean-Casey/dp/B0001DB6GI

For tactical carbine there are a number of innovative methods being used. Magpul has a series of videos that break down the particulars of that style. It typically uses a single-point sling and more dynamic posture to emphasize mobility over accuracy.

All of it is still evolving, with new approaches being tried all the time.

And hitting a human size target at 25 yards(or most likely much less), does not require a great deal of actual marksmanship.

Stance training is not just about long range rifle matches, my friend. The training teaches you how to be more familiar with your firearm and how to actually use it under stress. There's a whole world of it out there, waiting. IF you get off the bench ;-)

Four pages of posts that try to tell other people how to enjoy their shooting sports?

Really?

Stance training is not just about long range rifle matches, my friend. The training teaches you how to be more familiar with your firearm and how to actually use it under stress. There's a whole world of it out there, waiting. IF you get off the bench ;-)

Shooting from a bench is not just about benchrest matches or being lazy, my friend. The training teaches you how to be more familiar with your firearm, analyze shooting technique, read wind, breath control, and trigger control all at a more granular level. You can verify and fully exploit the accuracy potential of your rifle/bullet combination, and test for better combinations for even greater accuracy. Shooting small groups at ranges from 100-1000 yards in the wind (or even without)is no more or less stressful than shooting standin' up. There's a whole world of ballistics, load development, wind reading, and shooting technique experience out there, waiting, IF you get ON the bench...
That being said, it matters not a bit to me what YOU do, as long as you enjoy yourself. We do this for fun, and many of us have limited range time due to work/family/life stuff. So if I do get an hour or 2 every other week to hit the range, shooting small groups at distant targets over a sandbag is where I like to spend my time. And I usually will break out the python and run a few cylinders downrange just to make sure I could defend myself should the need arise. OK I'll admit sometimes I even put that thing on a rest and see how small a group I can shoot at 100:) If my range time were unlimited, sure maybe I'd shoot positions, compete in 3-gun, cowboy shooting, who knows what.

I will say without guilt or remorse that I belong to a club with an outdoor 200yd range, and for the 3 years since I joined ALL of my shooting has been from a bench. I have not shot handguns for 20 years, although I'm in the process of getting a permit and starting up again.

But I currently own 14 rifles, and after not reloading for about 20 years, I am again doing that. Five of the rifles are inherited from my Dad and Granddad, and all five needed an initial sight-in. Three of them also needed new load work-ups.

Three of the rest are new to me within the last 2 years, and also required sight-in and scope mount. Because of changes in powder properties and new bullet types, my favorite 2 hunting rifles have required multiple iterations of reload testing.

I have also been teaching my wife and my daughter to shoot, and the first steps are trigger and breathing, as well as basic handling, safety, and range etiquette. Bench is a good way to establish those things.

Since I work as a business consultant, I mostly spend 4 nights/week in a hotel somewhere in the US, and another day or so traveling. So my time on the range is pretty limited.

I learned to shoot offhand first, starting at age 8, and never went to a range until I was in my 30's. But today, it's where I can shoot. In spite of limited opportunities, the last 6 animals I took (whitetail, antelope, and muley) were all one-shot DRT kills. Would I like to do some offhand shooting? -Sure, but first I have to get all my equipment into the best shape I can, with the best rounds I can produce.

Someone from the club might see me at a bench and say, "I wonder why that guy doesn't shoot positions? He's always at a bench, punching holes at 100 and 200 yards." -Well, there are good reasons. This summer, I have encouraged my daughter to do Appleseed. My wife has already been hunting with me, and I hope we'll be able to do more of it.

But right now, on the odd weekend, I'm the old guy at bench 12, or 14, or wherever.

"They don't seem to know that unless you can shoot a rifle from the basic positions that in most hunting and defense situations a rifle is next to useless."

Seem to know? If you didn't ask them, you're just assuming they don't know. Heck, maybe they don't give a hoot about defensive use or hunting.

I'd been shooting for 40+ years before I had the chance (or paid the money :) ) to shoot somewhere with a bench. I'm not counting picnic tables btw.

John

I go to the range to use the benches. I can shoot on family or friend's property to practice (okay, okay play at) offhand, kneeling, prone, etc. shooting. When I go to the range, it is to zero my rifle, and when I do that, I want a bench to shoot off of.

The bench takes all athleticism nd physical effort out of shooting. It is suited to the average out of shape and over weight American.

The way i see it...if someone shoots from a rest, and shoots better than you because you want to be stubborn and shoot from a stance, do you get upset?

Just willing to bet that you are not here complaining about it because you are shooting better from a stance than they are off a rest...

I'm going to guess most of the people you see at the range are not in combat situations. There is no need to shoot from anything other than a rest. Even a military sniper will find some type of make shift rest. Look at longest confirmed kills and i doubt any of those guys were standing.

I shoot with either bags or a bipod from prone because it works, across the hood of a truck is fine too. I don't ever miss a target either due to it. i can and have shot standing, kneeling, as we learned in the military, i just have no need to. I actually don't think i ever shot from a bench rest. I like making consistent small groups. The only thing someone should be able to shoot from any position is a carry gun.

I understand "doing things the way you used to" but things change and people find better ways to do things. You wouldn't change parts on a gun or car out with new or better parts if the stock part was superior.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

For me when I'm using a rifle with iron sights or a red dot and other similar optics I always shoot offhand, but when I'm using a scope I'm always on the bench. When hunting I use shooting sticks, or if in a tree stand I prop up on the frame. Never had a problem, and I suspect I never will. To each his own.

I shoot off a bench all the time now. Legs are just about no good due to heavy duty back injury several years ago. At least I still get to shoot. What I don't understand are the people who come to the range with a AR and a semi auto pistol and a bucket full of loaded clips. Then they shoot it all as fast as they can pull the triggers and reload and never put a target up.

The way i see it...if someone shoots from a rest, and shoots better than you because you want to be stubborn and shoot from a stance, do you get upset?
I dont get upset, especially when I shoot better than they do, and Im just resting on my butt shooting. ;)

You dont need a bench to shoot tight little groups. You do need to have worked on and practiced your skills a little more.

Shooting off a bench is sort of like learning to drive on an automatic transmission. You can drive, but you really cant.


The bench takes all athleticism nd physical effort out of shooting. It is suited to the average out of shape and over weight American.


A very true point, and not to be taken well Im sure. No one likes the truth, especially when it applies. :)

You dont need a bench to shoot tight little groups. You do need to have worked on and practiced your skills a little more.

Why do I get the idea that what you think is a "tight little group" would come in dead last in every benchrest match that I've ever seen .....

I have half a mind to print some cards with the stances on them and start passing them around. If you can't shoot in the stances, IMHO, you really can't shoot. And stance shooting requires constant practice to keep in form.
Sounds like a great idea to me. I have no clue what "the stances" are. I'd definitely like to, though.

Why do I get the idea that what you think is a "tight little group" would come in dead last in every benchrest match that I've ever seen .....
True "benchrest" is a slightly different animal from recreational benchrest or any other type shooting, as there really is very little input from the shooter other than the trigger.

Still, you can shoot pretty tight groups using field and improvised positions without the aide of a bench.


These were shot at 100 yards, prone, either off a rucksack or bipod....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f2ba8d81700000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f8c64192000000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27e331379dc00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/
http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b9dc32b3127ccec60f8a46236000000040O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

These were shot offhand at 100 yards, with of all things, an AK with a red dot...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27fedffd82300000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

AR offhand...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27f734ed8dd00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

AK with red dot, cross legged sitting...

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27fd338d8fb00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

AK, cross legged sitting, 200 yards, factory iron sights (the bottom group was fired from a rest to confirm zero)....

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47b7d700b3127ccec27ff9e8590e00000010O00CYuWbdo5bsQe3nwk/cC/f%3D0/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/

Great shooting!

The bench takes all athleticism nd physical effort out of shooting. It is suited to the average out of shape and over weight American.

I think that's why this is a sensitive issue with many of us. We've become a nation of sitters. Even at the shooting range.

How someone shoots is of no importance to me.
That they are enjoying themselves and helping to keep shooting popular among the masses is very important to me.
Drive folks away by judging them and there will be less folks to ensure the continued existance of the shooting sports we all love and enjoy.
Instead of being critical and chasing folks off it may be wise to recruit even more folks and should they choose to shoot at a bench all day so be it. They dont offend me in the least.
T

Think I'm going to go with the classic answer:

My guns, my bullets, my time - none of which are your business.

With that said, if you would like to purchase me some guns, some bullets, and pay me for my time - I'll probably shoot however you want me to when you are around.

Other than that, pound sand - that is what the world is, a bunch of people different from one another.

It's OUR sport. OUR heritage. OUR ranges, though. So when so many people are benchbound that it becomes a range rule, I do think the trend has gone way too far.

Actually, I prefer prone unsupported shooting.. if one of you guys can get a range near me that will allow it I'd use it a lot. Bench only unless you're on the handgun range here.

I guess I'm lucky that one of my clubs keeps a small area over to one side clear of benches strictly out of recognition that some like to shoot from prone. Mind you we have a great big hill as our official backstop.... :D

The other club is all benches but no one bites us in the rear end if we lay a mat down between them to shoot prone. Again, another big ugly hill as the backstop. But sadly only 200 yards to the hill's base.

It's OUR sport.OUR heritage.

When you say "our" who are you referring to?

OUR ranges, though.

You personally own these ranges?

So when so many people are benchbound that it becomes a range rule...

Sounds like your beef is with the range owner. Why would you blame the people who shoot the way they enjoy? They have zero control over what a range owner does or does not enforce.

And to be blunt, if you don't like it go build your "own" range with your "own" rules.

I do think the trend has gone way too far.

Yea and I think fat guys and dudes dressed up as Tier 1 operators with scarves and goggles at the range take it to far. At the end of the day though they have no effect on me and its their money and their thing so more power to them.

Wouldn't shoot there at all!

Well that would leave one with nowhere to shoot. For less than a 100+ mile round trip.

now that this has run its course.. how bout those lazy guys who cant be bothered to learn how to use irons instead of that point and click shooting

</troll>

Or people who use black rifles. :mad:

No man needs anything that doesn't have wood furniture. :barf:


/fudd

titan.. how bout an AR with wood furniture? :)

As long as its single shot I will allow this.

Bah, it ain't real shootin' unless you cast the ball, ground the powder and knapped the flint from a rock you picked up on the riverbank! :neener:

But, honestly, comparing groups shot off a bench to those shot in position is like comparing a trap score to an IDPA score. Totally different aspects to shooting. 1MOA will hold the X ring for CMP/NRA while a benchrest shooter may think the rifle junk if it only held 1 MOA. Now, if the bench shooter is using an official bench rest target and the prone shooter is using a CMP target then maybe one could draw some comparisons if we presume that competition targets are appropriately scaled for expected accuracy levels in each discipline, but there would still be plenty of "lively" debate I am sure. For me, bench shooting holds little interest so I don't do it. Guys at my club don't give me grief for shooting off a mat and I don't give the guys on a bench grief either. We all put lead downrange, life is good :)

formally not allowed at the NRA range here in alexandria, va.. it's unfortunate.. you'd think they'd be more ameniable to it.

Same with the only other range in 40 minutes of me... But I got a buddy who has a little bit o land that I might be able to work something out on.. he's already letting me hunt it this year.

I can do a seated at a table unsupported though.. which is almost similar to prone.. if you squint your eyes and tilt your head the right way.

Your not a man unless you've taken out one deer with nothing more than a loin cloth, a bowie knife in your teeth, and whatever camo you can find/make in nature.

:scrutiny:

I go to the range to get away from the house and to relax. I shoot from the bench with my rifles because I want to hit what I shoot at. My eyes aren't as young as they used to be and a .22 cal bullet from an AR is hard for me to see at 100 yds!

The only people I've seen not shooting from benches are the guys down at the far end shooting 1000 yds prone.

jeeeze guys some of these posts sound like the "is glock best?" posts. For those who are limited by range rules guess what? Thats what you deal with, if limited by physical limitations, guess what? Thats what you deal with. Many of my former students told me there home range was 'bench only, here is a alternative; approach the directors and inquire if a suitable fold up table top platform on top of the bench would satisfy the requirements, perhaps stationed at one end of the range or another, with good planning and a good platform one can convert the 'concrete gear holder' to a shooting platform.
Out of 111 posts I saw mentioned only twice another suitable alternative if one wanted to learn or practice field positions, APPLESEED is the answer. If for what ever reasons you like to shoot from the bench PLEASE continue, at least your not taking up some alternitive and thuslly diminishing the shooting sports overall numbers . Keep shooting guys/gals!!

Our public range basically does not allow standing. Sitting, kneeling, prone and bench are about it. If you are not at the bench, then fire ants exist which is a serious bummer to your shooting skills.

Shooting off a bench is sort of like learning to drive on an automatic transmission. You can drive, but you really cant.

:what:

I don't know about that analogy. The (arguably) most thoroughly and broadly skilled drivers in the entire word, World Rally racers, use autos.

judging by the number of responses I would say glued to the computer is more like it. Not saying I am any different... I am on here so much I get a accused of having a girlfriend.

the majority of my shooting lately occurs out in the country where there are no benches, and at least 90% of fire is from ar15's and m1 garands from the standing position.

that being said, the most fun i really have come from the bench. its just a nice way to spend a saturday morning. very slow paced. shoot a few rounds, lock the action open, lean back with a nice cold drink in the shade, and spy on the groups being fired by the old geezers with their precision rifles. have nice conversations with the old timers that swoop in a swoon over our garands. no hurry. no pace to keep, or time to be home. play with the chronograph.

I'm a little confused as to why ranges wouldn't allow position shooting. Almost anyone is more accurate with a rifle vs a handgun, do these ranges not allow handgun shooting at all?

For me personally when I practice position shooting I use a 22LR and self designed PDFs I post at 25m that simulate various ranges. Even on a bad day I'm keeping all my shots on the printer paper, even if I'm not hitting the silhouette itself. I'd be hard pressed to keep all my shots on a piece of printer paper at 25m with a handgun.

At any rate the range I go to took the very sensible step of putting up baffles just in case, so it's a "no blue sky" outdoor range.

I am fixing to head to my private range. There will be nobody there to judge me. It's between me, myself and I how I want to do things and won't be bothered about offending others on whatever position I choose to shoot my firearms from.

happy.. because they setup a bench at every stall and they don't want people moving them.. especially if they are the double benches.

I like to shoot in the field.

Blowing up beer bottles, breaking rocks, or making a baseball jump around is far more fun than punching paper in my opinion.

Thus I spend most of my time standing. If I feel I need a rest, I lean up against a tree. If I feel I have the time to make a certain shot, I drop down to prone.

When you say "our" who are you referring to?

American rifle shooters. There was a day and age when skill with a rifle was a prized part of our national heritage. And guess what? Whatever interesting things you can do from the bench, truly mastering the rifle isn't one of them. So yeah I am concerned that, as a nation, we are losing the art of actually shooting rifles. The ranges are getting rarer, the rules more restrictive and everyone seems glued to the bench even when they don't have to be.

Again, today, I was the only one with a shooting mat. And I got there after a dozen miles peddling my broad behind on a BICYCLE. So if I could find room for a shooting mat, the others could have too.

But go ahead and prove me wrong. Shoot standing, kneeling, sitting, prone and prove that you really don't need to practice those positions on a regular basis to stay sharp.

There will be nobody there to judge me.

I'm not judging you. It's TEDDY who's judging you!

http://kennysilva.net/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/teddy_roosevelt_pointing.jpg

Yeah. People want to shoot. Let them shoot.

It should also be noted that there is much more quality in rifles than say, 20 years ago. It used to be that only a select few could afford or use a sub-MOA rifle. Now there is a lot more accuracy to work with, and I don't see any problems with people exploring and learning how to use it.

A partial explanation - without reading all five pages - may be that at formal ranges, one may only be able to shoot from a bench. They may also be sighting in or accuracy testing loads, which requires a bench.

Enough of this for a Sunday morning. :D