Best 9mm ammo for self defense


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rajb123
May 22, 2012, 05:17 PM
I read the tragic Treyvon Martin autopsy report and it said the young man was shot at intermediate range (more than 6 inches away) and that the 9mm bullet fragmented into at least two pieces. Apparently, the single round that was fired did not exit the body, however.

I believe Zimmerman was using a hollow point copper jacketed 9mm round.

Is this correct?

I presume that the bullet released 100% of its energy into the torso and that this proves very good ballistics performance. I would have guessed that this round would have exited the body since it was shot at very close range, thereby, not using some of its initial terminal energy.

Anyway, this 9mm round seemed to perform well from a design standpoint; right? Is there any information on the manufacturor, the grain weight of the bullet, type of bullet, powder charge, casing material, primer or other ballistics etc. that would help identify the exact type and manufacture of this ammo?

I assume these were factory loaded rounds and not handloads.

Thanks...

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InnerVision
May 22, 2012, 06:18 PM
IM curious about this too...i wonder If HP rounds work better for up close..vs fmj which gives better
Penetration...on a side note..the only thing tragic about treyvon case is the medias crucifixion of
Zimmerman..

LightningMan
May 22, 2012, 06:29 PM
The best round might depend on what barrel lenght your pistol has. I mean like Hornady's Critical Duty may be the best for a full size duty side arm, but from what I've read it's not the best for short barrel pistols, where Speer makes some ammunition spicifically for short barrels. Just need more info on what pistol you intend to use it in. LM

murphys_law
May 22, 2012, 06:34 PM
Do some research, you'll have to come to your own conclusion. There is no "best."

Jim NE
May 22, 2012, 06:38 PM
the only thing tragic about treyvon case is the medias crucifixion of
Zimmerman..


At the risk of closing the thread, "here, here".

The gun used was a Keltec (PF9, I think). In my less expensive 9mm's (Keltec, Sigma) I don't risk jams and stay away from HP's.

hentown
May 22, 2012, 06:44 PM
Dr. Baden said that the shot was fired from as close as 1". I don't guess the difference in 6" or 1" makes any difference in this case. Supposedly, the round "exploded" Travon's heart.

Just in case the judge throws out the charges or a jury finds Zimmerman innocent, I'm going to remain loaded up with 127gr +p+ Win Ranger hollow points. If Zimmerman isn't convicted, I'd strongly suggest that everybody be prepared for mass insurrections.

Fishbed77
May 22, 2012, 07:53 PM
IBTL!

InnerVision
May 22, 2012, 08:14 PM
My buddy has a PF9..and it isn't the most pleasant gun to shoot with lower powered practice rounds..I couldn't imagine shooting really hot ammo through it.

LawScholar
May 22, 2012, 08:17 PM
Yeah, this thread is not long for the world. In the future it might be more effective to refrain from divisive political statements in a thread, especially when none of us know jack-all about what actually happened and the question can properly be asked without mentioning the divisive topic.

...I like 147-grain HST and 124 +p Golf Dot

Yarddog
May 22, 2012, 08:19 PM
IBTL Also :-)

"[In my less expensive 9mm's (Keltec, Sigma) I don't risk jams and stay away from HP's]"

My Sigma EATs anything you put in it, I CC it on acations, Though I like the M&P9c a little easier to CC ; )
Y/D

easyg
May 22, 2012, 09:01 PM
Here are several loads that I like:

Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 124g 9mm+P
Speer Gold Dot 124g 9mm+P
Remington Golden Saber Bonded 124g 9mm+P

I like the idea of bonded ammo since is supposed to be designed to resist separation.

Walkalong
May 22, 2012, 09:27 PM
IBTLNot if everyone can stay on bullet choice, and off the news.

wlewisiii
May 22, 2012, 10:30 PM
Winchester RA127TA. Shoots to point of aim, functions well in my Glock 19 & has a long record of success with LEO.

I am considering changing to RA9124TP so I can use the RA124N Nato spec fmj load for practice as it's half the cost.

heeler
May 22, 2012, 10:51 PM
Well we definitely know that the weapon used was Kel-Tec PF 9.
We do not know what ammo was used.
I have seen pictures of various rounds and the pictures of the rounds used in said shooting and some people in another forum *think* the rounds used were S&B hollow points if that really matters.
Truth is the round did not exit which may or may not indicate a fmj or hollow point was used.
Not trying to veer off course here but as a life long deer hunter with over five decades of hunting behind me I can say even center fired high powered rounds coming out of several different well known calibers sometimes do not exit regardless of shot distance.
On the other hand I have known of an another time when someone used a .223 fmj on a boar hog at a relatively short distance (under 35 yards)that did not exit.

willypete
May 22, 2012, 11:15 PM
I don't think you can go wrong with Gold Dots. I also really like the CorBon DPX 115 gr load. It's rather spendy, however.

Here's some reading I peruse when considering ammo choices.

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/index.htm

http://www.buckeyefirearms.org/node/7866

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread.php?t=19887

The Federal HST looks to be a very good load, but I haven't been able to find any of it locally. I'll stick with Gold Dots and DPX until I can.

Tomcat47
May 22, 2012, 11:17 PM
The Round in the Chamber........:neener:

SabbathWolf
May 22, 2012, 11:26 PM
There are so many "good" choices these days, that it's almost an impossible question really.
I've fired several makes and brands and really just tend to stick with what functions 100% in my gun.

I'll agree that you may base "some" of your decision on how long your barrel is in said gun.

My compromise has been the Ranger-T stuff in 147gr.
It works well in both handguns and my carbine as well.
I'm sure you'll get a thousand different answers on this one.



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/15acd3f1.jpg

smalls
May 22, 2012, 11:38 PM
Jim, there's no reason to stay away from hollow points unless your gun actually jams with it. I've fed probably 1200 rounds of hollow points through my sigma without one jam. The price point of a firearm does not always mean it just won't work. To just say "well it's a cheap gun, so it won't feed hollowpoints" isn't correct.

OP, there is no "best". There are certain rounds that have been tested, that mostly expand reliably, so look at those, then find out what feeds reliably with your gun. Take the ones that feed reliably, and figure out which ones have the best accuracy. After that, pick which of those is the least expensive.

MY experience with MY gun is that PDX1's feed the most reliably (even a mag that refuses to feed JHP's feed them), they're not overly expensive, and the 124 gr. +P's make me feel warm and fuzzy after doing some research.

Your mileage will probably vary.

SabbathWolf
May 22, 2012, 11:49 PM
...OP, there is no "best". There are certain rounds that have been tested, that mostly expand reliably, so look at those, then find out what feeds reliably with your gun. Take the ones that feed reliably, and figure out which ones have the best accuracy. After that, pick which of those is the least expensive......




This^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly
+1
That's EXACTLY how I do it too.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/smilies/529eb8d6.gif

rajb123
May 23, 2012, 04:57 AM
If I knew the ammo type I would consider buying it and testing it to see if it performs well in the gun I was planning to use for self defense.

We know from the Treyvon Martin autopsy report that this ammo performed very well in the Kel Tec PF-9 auto which has a short barrel. There was a picture published of the gun used and the mag was taken out. The bullet that was visible in the mag had a very small hole in the tip, so I assume it is of a hollow point design. The hole is very small and does not look like a typical hollow point, however.

Anyway, it would be good to know the exact ammo type that was used in this situation because we know it worked well in the Kel Tec gun.

smalls
May 23, 2012, 09:03 AM
It worked well with whatever variables were in place. Who knows what those are? None of us.

He could have had both his arms up, so the bullet travelled through both arms, and whatever clothing he had on. That'll slow down bullets for sure.

But we don't know those variables, so research what your variables are for your gun.

skoro
May 23, 2012, 09:13 AM
Any of the top-shelf hollow points.

ku4hx
May 23, 2012, 09:44 AM
Best round? The one that functions in your gun the most reliably with which you most consistently hit what you want to hit where you want to hit it. If you can't satisfy those conditions, nothing else matters.

rajb123
May 23, 2012, 10:02 AM
Hmmm. I would avoid FMJ ammo in a 9mm even if it does not jam and I can hit 10x targets all day long.

...these are just not made for self defense; right?

Orion8472
May 23, 2012, 10:22 AM
Does the 124gr. Golden Sabers do well for defense? I've seen a few "back yard ballistics tests" that showed them as a less than perfect performer. It could just be those tests, though. How do they do in real world scenarios [if that data is even available]?

What I like about Golden Sabers is that they usually feed pretty well, due to their design.

elrowe
May 23, 2012, 10:53 AM
Does the 124gr. Golden Sabers do well for defense? I've seen a few "back yard ballistics tests" that showed them as a less than perfect performer. It could just be those tests, though. How do they do in real world scenarios [if that data is even available]?

What I like about Golden Sabers is that they usually feed pretty well, due to their design.
I've never had an FTF or FTE with 124 gr. Golder Sabers in any of my five CCW or HD 9mms. Based on all of the studies I've seen, including what MILSPEC FMJ did during my three trips to Iraq, it almost flat out doesn't matter beyond reliable function, penetration, and shot placement. The energy differences and permanent wound channel results are negligible. Frankly, I'm nearing the opinion that ball/FMJ might even be a better option (ok, so I'm a heretic...) since penetration is generally better (look at the FBI studies for my logic), and they generally are more effective when hitting bone. As far as the overpenetration-adverse, any shot with any firearm risks harm to whatever is beyond the target, so shooter awareness is the most important factor.

Sam1911
May 23, 2012, 12:37 PM
IBTLNot if everyone can stay on bullet choice, and off the news.

Again...If something you wrote was deleted, 'dat be a hint.

smalls
May 23, 2012, 12:41 PM
No, FMJ's are not made for personal protection. With the exception of a small crowd, it's pretty universally accepted that JHP's are what should be used for self defense.

rajb123
May 23, 2012, 01:22 PM
Is it fair to say that a hollow point jacketed bullet is much more prone to break into pieces than a full metal jacket design?

Does a bullet loose energy and stopping power when it breaks apart?

I've seen several bullet/ammo tests on TV where rounds are fired into gellatin which is supposed to mimic the ballistic performance you would get in an actual self defense situation. Other tests I've seen include shots fired into an animal carcass such as a cow or pig. These usually do contain bone, but typically do not contain vital organs, blood and other connective tissue, however.

Anyway, I've always had my doubts about these tests.

TimboKhan
May 23, 2012, 02:05 PM
I am going to lock this. First, there are good threads discussing this topic that are active now. Second, though the comments got back on topic pretty quick, there is far to much emotional involvement in this case predicated by media reports of varying accuracy to keep it high road for long. Sorry people, but when i see "ibtl" comments it tells me that I am not the only one who sees the potential for disaster here.

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