Better than nothing?

Ok so once again best lay plans have went to ruins and doesn't look like I will be getting my 3rd gen Smith and Wesson anytime soon. In the mean time I now find myself without a defensive firearm in the house and just don't quite feel right. So here is my current mind set, I feel it might be a bit flaw however. What you guys think?

I have been looking at the cheap Single Action Rough Riders with 22LR/22mag set up for awhile for plinking. Now as said before without firearm I was thinking picking one up for under $200 and I would have a .22LR to plink with and finally get more shooting time in, and being able to run the .22mag for self defense duty till I can get myself a 3rd Gen Smith in 9mm or a classic Model 10... Just kinda torn. another option is just really try hard to save up for a Model 10, I have seen a few of them in the $275 ball park pass few months. Just seems hard getting there as something always comes up.

Of course the other option would be something like a Hi Point, but even though they are fine pistols for their intended purpose. I just don't have much desire to own one.

So what you guys think Rough Rider better than nothing?

EDIT: Also I will soon (maybe even before the Rough Rider) be getting a Mossberg 12GA which will be main home defense weapon. Thought that might be a factor as well...

I'd rather have the high point then a single action .22

The Rough Rider is better than nothing. The Hi-Point is far better than the Rough Rider for a HD weapon, but the RR will be cheaper to shoot. I'd still rather shoot a few 9mm than a lot of .22LR, but YMMV.

I'd rather have the high point then a single action .22

I can fully understand that... Single action is revolver is a little slow and forget about reloading if in fire fight. The .22 mag with good defense ammo is at the very bottom of the scale right around the .32 ballpark in my opinion.
However it serves dual purposes, if I am plinking with it I am going to be more proficient with it than one I hardly ever shoot, and it's something that I will still keep and use after I get a more well suited defense firearm.

I'm sort of a Hi-Point evangelist so I'll second the Hi-Point recommendation.

But .22 mag at HD/SD distances is nothing to sneeze at either. If you just really detest the idea of buying a Hi-Point I think then your point about keeping the RR for plinking and whatnot after you get a regular defensive sidearm is valid. Get the RR if that's what you want. It'll be enough.

Though I find myself wanting to shoot my C9 more often than I want to shoot my Neos. YMMV.

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F3CZ82

Good used police trade-in S&W Model 10's can be found for not much more if you look.

rc

Good used police trade-in S&W Model 10's can be found for not much more if you look.

Cheapest I have seen is around $275... Which I know isn't much but right now the extra $75 could be hard for me to save up. Any suggestions on where to look?

Far as the 9x18 surplus pistols... they are nice and I hear a lot of good about them but at the same time I rather have a more standard ammo in which I wont have to worry in the future about surplus ammo running dry or anything like I hear with others. There was a Russian revolver that I liked the looks of a lot but ammo for it was hard to find and expensive.

BTW thank you everyone for all the comments and suggestions. Always get such good help on here.

9x18 COMMERCIAL ammo is firmly entrenched in the U.S. market.

Forget the GOOFY surplus and buy a good commercial JHP load for your serious business.

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/25rds-9x18-makarov-hornady-95gr-xtp-hp-ammo/cName/9x18-makarov-hollow-point-ammo

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/25rds-9x18-makarov-hornady-critical-defense-95gr-ftx-ammo/cName/9x18-makarov-hollow-point-ammo

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-9x18-makarov-corbon-powrball-70gr-ammo/cName/9x18-makarov-hollow-point-ammo

http://www.ammunitiontogo.com/product_info.php/pName/20rds-9x18-makarov-p-buffalo-bore-95gr-jhp-ammo/cName/9x18-makarov-hollow-point-ammo

RC

Some expensive defense ammo $0.66 - $1.19 per round, I would never be able shoot. Just rather stick to more common ammo.

Maybe think about a Ruger 10/22? It's in your price range, is a superb plinker and will do a nice job in HD if properly equiped. If not, I'd probably go with a Hi-Point in 9mm. Good HD, decent plinker.

I now find myself without a defensive firearm in the house
I thought this was the question?

I would never be able shoot.Didn't know your were looking for a cheap plinker.

rc

So what you guys think Rough Rider better than nothing?

EDIT: Also I will soon (maybe even before the Rough Rider) be getting a Mossberg 12GA which will be main home defense weapon. Thought that might be a factor as well...


NOW you're thinking! Get a 12GA pump, THEN save up for a .22LR

I now find myself without a defensive firearm in the house

Get a 12 ga shotgun under $200. It's definitely more suited for the task than a 22 pistol and might even be cheaper.

Well I actually already have the 12GA I just have to do some work to it... it's was given to my brother and has seen some abuse so I am going to file off a few burs that's and inspect everything. Currently it's at my Dad's just have to pick it up and give it a little TLC, so the Rough Rider would actually be just a secondary defense till I get another pistol... Should fill that need fine I think the more I think of it.

No, it would be worse than nothing - you might try to rely on it in an emergency.

Get a Hi-Point .45. Ugly as sin, heavier than hell but it will _work_ when it absolutely has to.

For HD, I'd never go weaker than 38spl or 9mm.....Period!
That's my line in the sand without hesitation.
I don't care what costs what or which is cheaper to shoot, nor any of that.
I take the safety of my family seriously.
Budget is farther down on the list.
I don't intend to take "ANY" chances with an inferior round that "may" or may "not" actually work. I LOVE my family.
That's just how it is around here.

I personally would not use a HRR for HD even if chambered in 22 Mag just because it's single action.

As for the Hi Point, keep in mind the break-in period before it becomes dependable. With any semi, I wouldn't rely on it as a SD/HD weapon until its had at least a few hundred rounds through it. The CZ-82 is a good choice but they're creeping higher each day.

You may want to take a look at the Armscor M206, a 6-shot snub chambered in .38 Spl. It's modeled after the Colt J frame internally and looks like a Colt Detective on the outside. They have good reviews all around. I personally have two (2" & 4") of them as plinkers/range toys but I wouldn't hesitate a second relying on them for SD/HD. They're all over for right around $200.

My first gun was an FIE .22 Texan Single-Action. I kept it for years until I was able to upgrade to a Ruger Blackhawk .357 Mag. Now that I am older I have choices and use a Smith & Wesson M36 .38 for HD and carry an Armscor M206 in .38 for my open carry gun. I still have that Blackhawk.:)

you should be able to find a CZ-82 in about the same price range.

NAA single shot shotguns can be had for around $80 new or less at a pawn shop. Marlin model 60 around $150 new or $89 at the used dealers, usually. Both of those have been working for years in my neck of the woods.

Onward allusions suggestion may well be a middle ground compromise worth looking into. I read a couple favorable reviews on them as well and .38 DA seems a better choice than a .22 for self defense.

The Armscorp can be used for plinking especially loaded with .38 wadcutters. Your shotgun is more effective than the other options but isn't much of a plinker....:) of course your money your choice.

I have consider the Armscor revolvers before. I hear nothing but good about their 1911's and hope to get one of them someday (Rock Island 1911). However when I asked on here about Armscor revolvers once before I just got a bunch of people saying that they was crap and I needed to spend more money on something better. Of course there is always something better and I would love to have Model 10 for home defense but sometimes it's hard enough making ends meet only trying to save up more cash for a firearm...

Anyhow that is something I will also keep in mind while also on the look out for a cheaper Model 10.

Thanks everyone!

You really can't go wrong with the third gen smith. I just picked up a 3914 from CDNN for around what you are looking to pay. It's awesome.

The problem with a $200-$300 budget is that it virtually eliminates internet purchases. By the time you pay the shipping charge and then pay the transfer fee it will really limit your options. If you can find a seller on line that has free shipping that might work and it will at least give you an idea of what the gun should be worth locally.

I am seeing fewer used pistols in my LGS and pawn shops over the past few months and they tend to be a bit higher than I want to pay. The RR is a great plinking gun but would be waaaay down on my list of SD weapons. It would certainly work and you would have a nice plinker after you can get a "better" pistol.

+1 on the Hi Point in 9mm but if you don't want one then you don't want one. Hi Point is about the most dependable 9mm pistol you will find in the $150 range and my experience is that you need to have a gun that you can afford to shoot. 9x18 and .45 are a bit high to do a lot of practicing with. You can normally find 9mm fmj for $.20 per round so it does not break the bank to shoot a couple of mags a week. The same is true of some of the used 38s out there.

Any 12 gauge is a good HD weapon and you can easily find one for less than $200. As long as it shoots dependably then I really don't care about the cosmetics for this purpose. Give me an old rusty Mossberg pump leaning beside the bed any day. 12 g is also cheap to practice with using field loads.

Any 12 gauge is a good HD weapon and you can easily find one for less than $200. As long as it shoots dependably then I really don't care about the cosmetics for this purpose. Give me an old rusty Mossberg pump leaning beside the bed any day. 12 g is also cheap to practice with using field loads.

Practice? Heck don't need that in SD range with shotgun just point and squeeze! LOL. Anyhow I don't care about cosmetics either the one I have to work on is in rough shape far as bluing but that doesn't bother me. The issue is some metal burrs on the pump action of it (the bars attached to the for end and cycle the action). So hopefully I will find the time to go see the old man, pick that up and get it running good in next week or so.

I did have a P3AT in the nightstand, it worked but it didn't fit my hand good at all and the sights where horrible. After a year or so of trying to let it grow on me I sold it and using that money to get something better. Honestly I would feel more arm with the HRR .22mag than I did with that. But having a .12GA with the HRR just as backup for home defense... that should be find till I can get something better, if lucky I might find a good used Model 10 and be set.

Shotgun would be good as mentioned, or in a handgun how about a P95 for 300 clams?

how about a P95 for 300 clams?

Nothing wrong with the P95 however for $300 I could find a Model 10 or maybe even a 5906 which I feel would be better suited for me.

Fix the 12ga, keep saving your money. Buy the more expensive gun first - you can always get the HHR later, but if you spend the cash on it now you won't have it vwhen the great deal on the 5906 etc comes along.

Buy the more expensive gun first - you can always get the HHR later, but if you spend the cash on it now you won't have it vwhen the great deal on the 5906 etc comes along.

Good advice, will have to think on that... True the HRR is still in production and will be for awhile to come so finding a deal on one of the more expensive harder to find models would make more sense.

Gunbroker has a bunch of S&W 915 police trade-ins. They're 3rd Gen Smiths like the 5906 except they don't have the ambi safety/decocker or Novak sights and the frame is alloy like the 5903. They're well built pistols and mags are still plentiful.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=287133983

Probably right around $275 after shipping & transfer fees.

I've purchased from the seller a number of times and he's a straight shooter.

There is nothing wrong with a .22 for self defense, but there is better, but its better than a sharp stick !

In the vast majority of HD scenarios bad guys flee at sight of gun or first shot regardless of caliber so a .22 wouldn't probably be as bad as some think. Yes, not all do but statistically you are actually pretty well defended by a .22. Bigger calibers are certainly preferable but no doubt a .22 is far better than nothing. Still i'd probably go for the high point 9 mm.

"http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=287133983

Probably right around $275 after shipping & transfer fees.

I've purchased from the seller a number of times and he's a straight shooter."


Damn that guy has a bunch of guns. Would love to pick up a compact 92 from him but his pictures make every gun he has look well worn for the price he is asking. Especially since they all only include 1 mag it seems.

Damn that guy has a bunch of guns. Would love to pick up a compact 92 from him but his pictures make every gun he has look well worn for the price he is asking. Especially since they all only include 1 mag it seems.
The bulk are police trades. I picked up two 915s from him and both were like new on the inside. The outside is worn, however. I guess it depends on the gun's intended purpose. Almost all of mine are shooters or set aside for a GO Bag or two. Also the pictures look worst than the actual pistols.

So what you guys think Rough Rider better than nothing?

"Better than nothing" is the lowest possible standard that does not produce a negative or equal to nothing result. When it comes to self defense, better than nothing can include things as lowly as bad body odor and verbal assaults. Is that really the standard to which you want to exceed for your decision to be made? Shouldn't your standards be a little higher?

"Better than nothing" is the lowest possible standard that does not produce a negative or equal to nothing result. When it comes to self defense, better than nothing can include things as lowly as bad body odor and verbal assaults. Is that really the standard to which you want to exceed for your decision to be made? Shouldn't your standards be a little higher?
I don't know if you are trying to be cute or just a smart pants... However I think most see where I am coming from.

What do you mean by my standards? Is that to imply that there is something wrong with the Rough Rider or the Caliber?

Personally I don't see anything too wrong with the HRR for a affordable single action so I don't think I am lowering my standards there. The .22 LR is great for plink and the .22 mag although bottom of the list actually is not too bad with good defense ammunition such as from Hornady. Mind you this is more of a back up to the shotgun for HD that primary HD weapon.

I find that my "standards" rise or fall with my budget and my desires. I can afford to buy a new Mercedes every couple of years so it is in my budget. I drive a Ford F150 because it meets my desires.

I budget X amount per month on my hobbies one of which is purchasing firearms and ammo. I do not go over that budget and ofeten spend zero if we don't shoot a lot of centerfire ammo. If your budget is $300 then take into account the price of the gun as well as at least 2-3 boxes of ammo. 2 for practice and 1 for SD. With 9mm you are budgeting $35-$50 for ammo. With .22 you are budgeting $10. I don't know about 22 mag but I imagine it is in between.

With 9mm you are budgeting $35-$50 for ammo. With .22 you are budgeting $10. I don't know about 22 mag but I imagine it is in between.

That's a main decision maker in my case right now. I like to shoot but in the past with the last two center fire pistols than I had own I found myself not getting this trigger time that I would like. I believe with cheap .22 ammo I should be able to get much more shooting in and enjoy the pistol more. Not to mention the more trigger time I get with it the more proficient I will be. I have notice in recent years I am not as good of a shot as I was back in school when I spent my free time plinking away at cans.

Practice? Heck don't need that in SD range with shotgun just point and squeeze! LOL.
If you HAVE patterned a shotgun before, this wouldn't be a "LOL" statement.

Hopefully, you said that in jest.

If you HAVE patterned a shotgun before, this wouldn't be a "LOL" statement.

Hopefully, you said that in jest.
I'll be honest I don't know what you mean by patterned a shotgun...

But I have probably shot shotguns a lot more than any other firearms and it's pretty hard to miss. Of course I guess it is possible to miss if you don't hold the shotgun in the pocket correctly and that somehow miss aligns your eye to the bead? But really with a shouldered full length shotgun in home defense range (10 yards max?) I don't really think anyone would have a reason to miss... but then again I have seen worst.

At self defense ranges, your shot spread hasn't opened up much. You do have to aim. Possibly you don't have to worry about pinpoint precision, but it is absolutely a truth that people can and do miss with shotguns at self defense ranges.

Look, it's pretty simple to prove: 1. shoot a piece of cardboard at a range consistent with self defense. 2. Notice how you have one big hole, not a delightful no-miss spread. 3. Revel in the warmth of knowing that shotguns aren't magic boomsticks.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

A man who only owns one gun is a far more dangerous man than one who owns many guns. Make his only gun a single action .22lr and he's even more dangerous.

Chances are if you go the RR route you will end up shooting it a whole lot. What happens when you shoot a whole lot? You get really good. If you are really good six well placed shots of .22lr or mag will put any man down.

At self defense ranges, your shot spread hasn't opened up much. You do have to aim. Possibly you don't have to worry about pinpoint precision, but it is absolutely a truth that people can and do miss with shotguns at self defense ranges.

Look, it's pretty simple to prove: 1. shoot a piece of cardboard at a range consistent with self defense. 2. Notice how you have one big hole, not a delightful no-miss spread. 3. Revel in the warmth of knowing that shotguns aren't magic boomsticks.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2
Ok now I see what you are saying and yes I have shot targets at pretty close range before and see what you mean but still hard to miss, you still get a few shot outside of the center but still most bunch up pretty good and a shot or two gracing and intruder won't do much good. Then again I feel this way with just about any pistol or rifle at that range. Guess it comes with shooting since I could first reach a trigger. I shot the old mans .357 troop at the age of 6, it busted my lip. Dad made me shoot it again so I wouldn't be afraid of it...

My outlook and kinda what I was thinking more so is even with the spread not fully open it's like throwing a softball compare to a marble, which are you more likely to miss with. At the same time I was telling my wife just yesterday matter of fact that I needed to get her some time with the shotgun so she can shoot it and I don't think she quite understands that it is possible to miss just harder.

A man who only owns one gun is a far more dangerous man than one who owns many guns. Make his only gun a single action .22lr and he's even more dangerous.

Chances are if you go the RR route you will end up shooting it a whole lot. What happens when you shoot a whole lot? You get really good. If you are really good six well placed shots of .22lr or mag will put any man down.

My thoughts exactly... glad to to know I am not the only one that feels this way.

I'll be honest I don't know what you mean by patterned a shotgun...

But I have probably shot shotguns a lot more than any other firearms and it's pretty hard to miss. Of course I guess it is possible to miss if you don't hold the shotgun in the pocket correctly and that somehow miss aligns your eye to the bead? But really with a shouldered full length shotgun in home defense range (10 yards max?) I don't really think anyone would have a reason to miss... but then again I have seen worst.

Wow Bro...

No offense intended, but it honestly sounds to me like you have no clue what you are talking about. "Especially" since you say you've fired shotguns more than anything else.
Just being honest here.

In a short range CQB situation such as home defense...a shotgun spread can be as small as a silver dollar. It is "VERY" easy to miss. Just as easy to miss as it would be with a handgun or rifle.

Since you admit you don't even know what it means to "pattern" a shotgun...then I submit that your experience with said guns are based on movies, TV and video games or something -vs- any real first hand experience with them.

If you want to learn, and appreciate good advice from some of the very knowledgeable members here...then that's awesome. You'll receive a lot of assistance for sure.
But just don't try to B.S. us OK?
I hate that.
;)

This thread has a lot of my favorite things - HRR's, CZ-82's, .38 spl. and HiPoint.

You can't go wrong with any of these.

The CZ is ths cream of the Makarov crop, and is as good as any CZ made (which is pretty damn good) and is a huge bargain below $200. Mak ammo is as cheap as 9mm if you buy from a place like CTD. And it has a better trigger than a lot of guns costing 3x as much. One sits in the safe at the head of the bed at my house.

HRR's make me smile, and loaded with 22 mag you definitely have enough penetration to be deadly. Great gun for the money. I love mine.

HiPoint deserves much more credit than they get. Their products are functional and reliable while they have squeezed all non-essential cost out of the gun. Engineering is design to a purpose, and HiPoint's stuff is really well done for value received.

Finally, the .38 spl has been killing bad guys dead for 110 years. That's what I carry.

Wow Bro...

No offense intended, but it honestly sounds to me like you have no clue what you are talking about. "Especially" since you say you've fired shotguns more than anything else.
Just being honest here.

In a short range CQB situation such as home defense...a shotgun spread can be as small as a silver dollar. It is "VERY" easy to miss. Just as easy to miss as it would be with a handgun or rifle.

Since you admit you don't even know what it means to "pattern" a shotgun...then I submit that your experience with said guns are based on movies, TV and video games or something -vs- any real first hand experience with them.

If you want to learn, and appreciate good advice from some of the very knowledgeable members here...then that's awesome. You'll receive a lot of assistance for sure.
But just don't try to B.S. us OK?
I hate that.
;)
No sir I don't have time to waste on bull ****. Further more I have nothing to gain or lose from telling tales. I have done a lot of hunting with the old mans 1100 and feel the way I feel. Now if you don't see things my way well that's fine everyone has a opinion, but to me a no choke shotgun is pretty darn hard to miss with. Silver dollar size? At was point blank? at 7 yards I would dare say the spread would cover my hand, but I haven't tested this in a long time, not even sure how close I was to the one target I did ever shoot with the 1100, besides game and trap. Then again it's hard to miss with a 2" J frame at 7 yards as well if you ask me. I don't know maybe we aren't compare apples to oranges if you are talking buck shot as I only have ever deal with #6 and *8 shot... Either way I don't appreciate being talk down to, I will over look it as it's not my usually experience with this site. Have a good evening.

EDIT: Haven't got my shotgun deburred or anything yet to do my own test but here is one that I found online that is pretty much what I have seen. Towards the end he is using #7.5 I am pretty sure I usually use #6 for squirrels and #8 for trap. Could be wrong as I haven't shot since high school when I left the farm (only really hunt deer anymore). So that's 7 years since I hunted... Anyhow if anyone cares here is the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=ElFmPZMtaSI



HRR's make me smile, and loaded with 22 mag you definitely have enough penetration to be deadly. Great gun for the money. I love mine.

Seems most that own them do, which is why I have decided to get just that. After this thread excluding the know it alls, and some other research about their customer service, I have decided that I will be well serve going ahead and getting me a HRR.

Thanks for everyone with their input.

No sir I don't have time to waste on bull ****. Further more I have nothing to gain or lose from telling tales. I have done a lot of hunting with the old mans 1100 and feel the way I feel. Now if you don't see things my way well that's fine everyone has a opinion, but to me a no choke shotgun is pretty darn hard to miss with. Silver dollar size? At was point blank? at 7 yards I would dare say the spread would cover my hand, but I haven't tested this in a long time, not even sure how close I was to the one target I did ever shoot with the 1100, besides game and trap. Then again it's hard to miss with a 2" J frame at 7 yards as well if you ask me. I don't know maybe we aren't compare apples to oranges if you are talking buck shot as I only have ever deal with #6 and *8 shot... Either way I don't appreciate being talk down to, I will over look it as it's not my usually experience with this site. Have a good evening.






Seems most that own them do, which is why I have decided to get just that. After this thread excluding the know it alls, and some other research about their customer service, I have decided that I will be well serve going ahead and getting me a HRR.

Thanks for everyone with their input.



OK then.
Now I'm "convinced" you have no clue what you are talking about...and don't really care either.
But have it your way.
I'll not be wasting any more time on you.
Thank you...and have a nice day...poser.

;)

Gotta love how if you disagree or have a different experience than someone else then you are automatically a liar, poser, sob... Goodness, anyhow I stated my case and guess till I get out and make a video to show results I'll be deemed a "poser". Oh well life goes on.

ANYHOW I have decided to go ahead and get the HRR which I am sure I wont be able to hit the side of the barn with and would be lucking to get a sign pellet from the shotgun to hit but oh wells. If anyone has anything constructive to add to this thread by all means do, anything else I will ignore.

dont know your price range, but a S&W 908 should run you in the 350 range.. little more than that rough rider, but a better made weapon, period.

Robinkevin,

It's hard to miss a stationary target, under low stress conditions at close range. Its considerably easier to miss when your system is all jacked up, your target is moving and your spot on this mortal coil is on the line!

Again, not so hard to prove. First time you shot a deer, I betcha you had a harder time with that shot than you did on the range. It's all that adrenaline dumping into your system. Experience and practice smooth that out, but most folks haven't the experience when it comes to self defense, so you have practice a lot.

The instinct is that you will revert to training. Shooting a buck or a duck simply does not prepare a person for shooting at another person. Fear, the inherent resistance to killing a human that most sane people have, adrenaline, training unsuitable to CQB, all can add up to disaster regardless of the firearm being used.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Either way I don't appreciate being talk down to, I will over look it as it's not my usually experience with this site. Have a good evening.

Nor would I, and it ISN'T the usual in this site. But please remember also that the vast majority of folks here take guns and self defense very seriously and might get frustrated when knowledgeable counsel is ignored under the ruse of "experience." Honestly, your comments about shotguns are fine for one hunting squirrels... but woefully inadequate for self defense. "Hard to miss with a 2" J frame at 7 yards?" Nuff said.

Just went through a self defense acquisition with my daughter. She wanted a handgun, and having shot both long guns and handguns with her I strongly suggested a shotgun. Her first time out she was appalled at how many times she missed a 4 x 4 piece of ply at 10 - 15 yards with #8 shot. After several days and a few hundred rounds she could split that piece of ply with 5 rounds. We moved on to buck. After she recovered her balance from her first shot, she again was amazed - at the same distances - that her "pattern" was the size of a tight fist... from an unchoked pump with an 18 in. barrel. She learned first hand that she better practice a lot and aim carefully. She also learned that the awesome recoil made an equally awesome hole in that ply... and knew how such well placed power could save her life.

We are now working on her handgun skills and before summer's end she'll have her revolver and start working on her CCW. Long story short... she methodically learned hers and her guns' capabilities and applied the work were needed.

Open-mindedness.... That's all anyone can ask.

Fellas, keep it civil. If anyone feels that a member is out of line please hit the report button and let one of the mods take a look.

I don't know if you are trying to be cute or just a smart pants... However I think most see where I am coming from.

What do you mean by my standards? Is that to imply that there is something wrong with the Rough Rider or the Caliber?

You don't know what your own standards are even though you used them to entitle the thread?

I am not trying to be cute or just smart pants. You are the one using the "better than nothing" standard and that is an absurdly low standard on which to base the defense of your life.

The 'better than nothing' standard is the lowest possible non-negative standard other than zero which is neigher positive or negative.

You don't know what your own standards are even though you used them to entitle the thread?

I am not trying to be cute or just smart pants. You are the one using the "better than nothing" standard and that is an absurdly low standard on which to base the defense of your life.

The 'better than nothing' standard is the lowest possible non-negative standard other than zero which is neigher positive or negative.
Ok that makes more sense than. I took you wrong way first... I see what you mean but at the same time I don't know if it's so bad to think better than nothing, when you have nothing. So far as my standards being a little higher, well the way I look at it is this. If I have enough to make do and I can provide additional defense for my family without taking food off the table that the better than nothing standard works for me. It's hard to judge someone's standards without being in their shoes and understand the sacrifices that are made to provide the best that they can.

Nor would I, and it ISN'T the usual in this site. But please remember also that the vast majority of folks here take guns and self defense very seriously and might get frustrated when knowledgeable counsel is ignored under the ruse of "experience." Honestly, your comments about shotguns are fine for one hunting squirrels... but woefully inadequate for self defense. "Hard to miss with a 2" J frame at 7 yards?" Nuff said.

Just went through a self defense acquisition with my daughter. She wanted a handgun, and having shot both long guns and handguns with her I strongly suggested a shotgun. Her first time out she was appalled at how many times she missed a 4 x 4 piece of ply at 10 - 15 yards with #8 shot. After several days and a few hundred rounds she could split that piece of ply with 5 rounds. We moved on to buck. After she recovered her balance from her first shot, she again was amazed - at the same distances - that her "pattern" was the size of a tight fist... from an unchoked pump with an 18 in. barrel. She learned first hand that she better practice a lot and aim carefully. She also learned that the awesome recoil made an equally awesome hole in that ply... and knew how such well placed power could save her life.

We are now working on her handgun skills and before summer's end she'll have her revolver and start working on her CCW. Long story short... she methodically learned hers and her guns' capabilities and applied the work were needed.

Open-mindedness.... That's all anyone can ask.
You are correct and I think I may be a little at fault when it comes to open-mindedness as much as the next guy. To me shooting is natural, I often shoot pistols including snub nose revolvers at 25 yards. Why? Well mainly cause the only range close to me is actually set up for rifle and 25 yards is the closest I can set up a target. When on the farm I like to get a little closer to see what I can do. Usually shoot a lot better groups, but still hitting paper at 7 yards is easy for me being more use to the 25 yards. My wife on the same note hasn't made the time to go shoot with me on the farm and at the range I speak of I don't think she even came close to the target at 25 yards with the P3AT I had. Guess it really does depend a lot on the person and I need to realize that.

Far as under stress such as you mention taking my first deer. I have never experience the lost of fine motor skills or other things that comes with being stressed. The old man use to drill in my head that with hunting "Don't get excited till after you have drop the deer. There is time to get excited afterwards.". So maybe that has something to do with not having that issue with hunting even with my first buck I apply the same concept. I hope that I would be able to do that in a home defense situation much as I would with a fist fight due to my training in that... Once again I do say hope, as I can't really say till I am in those shoes...

I am also one of those individuals that never gets "buck fever". I may get all jittery and nervous after the shot but I have always been completely calm even when preparing to take a "trophy". I have no idea why this is the case but I am generally a very calm individual so maybe it translates into my hunting. I have watched people start shaking when getting ready to shoot a doe so I know it is a real deal. Two year ago I shot a doe and got my normal "post shot" jitters. 30 seconds later a very nice 10 pointer came running in and my nervousness completely went away. Until after I shot him.

Of course a deer or elk will probably not shoot back, at least they never have in my experience. I would probably soil my clothes if someone actually pointed a gun at me in anger.

On occasion I carry a 22 semi. I normally carry a 9mm because I feel it is the better option of the two. I have never needed either one and hope i never do.

BTW it is legal in Alabama to kill 2 deer per day.

I am also one of those individuals that never gets "buck fever".

Boy, lucky you! I still have to force myself to calm down at the shot. Certainly it's not as bad as it once was, but as soon as I feel like everything is in line I have to take a little bit to calm myself down to actually make a good shot. I have even had to develop the patience to pass up shots I probably could make but are a bit sketchy. I don't need to kill a deer or pheasant or whatever, so as an adult I have had to learn to just say no in certain situations. Plus, if at all possible, I don't want to have to track a deer for miles on end while the poor thing suffers with a misplaced bullet in it's rump. Not that I can guarantee that they will drop at the shot, but the better chance I give myself to make a shot that will do just that, the more likely that it is to happen.

Not that I can guarantee that they will drop at the shot, but the better chance I give myself to make a shot that will do just that, the more likely that it is to happen

I shot three whitetail bucks this past season and two of them fell in their tracks. The third ran about 150 yards straight downhill into a creek bottom with no road access so I had to drag him upill to the road. I am too old for that stuff. I made a perfect shot on the deer that ran but he was in the process of bugging out after catching my scent so I guess his adrenaline kept him running. I picked up the 3rd one from the taxidermist this week.

I absolutely refuse to take a questionable shot for your stated reason. I own the land so there is no reason to shoot unless I am confident in the shot.

Ok so once again best lay plans have went to ruins and doesn't look like I will be getting my 3rd gen Smith and Wesson anytime soon. In the mean time I now find myself without a defensive firearm in the house and just don't quite feel right. So here is my current mind set, I feel it might be a bit flaw however. What you guys think?

I have been looking at the cheap Single Action Rough Riders with 22LR/22mag set up for awhile for plinking. Now as said before without firearm I was thinking picking one up for under $200 and I would have a .22LR to plink with and finally get more shooting time in, and being able to run the .22mag for self defense duty till I can get myself a 3rd Gen Smith in 9mm or a classic Model 10... Just kinda torn. another option is just really try hard to save up for a Model 10, I have seen a few of them in the $275 ball park pass few months. Just seems hard getting there as something always comes up.

Of course the other option would be something like a Hi Point, but even though they are fine pistols for their intended purpose. I just don't have much desire to own one.

So what you guys think Rough Rider better than nothing?

EDIT: Also I will soon (maybe even before the Rough Rider) be getting a Mossberg 12GA which will be main home defense weapon. Thought that might be a factor as well...
Find a Makrov in 9x18 at some pawn shop. Should find them around $200 bucks.

Saw one last week, a EG, for about $230 in these parts.

Also a used Bersa .380 is also an option.

Deaf

makarovs are cheap and good

don't buy a toy

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/268/products_id/56879/Handguns/Hi-Point

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/268/products_id/56877/Handguns/Hi-Point/Hi%20Point%20Model%2040G%2010rd%2040S/W%204%201/2/quot;%20Barrel%20Olive%20Drab/

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/268/products_id/13237/Handguns/Hi-Point/Hi%20Point%208%20+%201%20Round%209MM%20Compact%20w/Black%20Finish%20/%20Hard%20Case/

There are three brand-new pistols in true defensive calibers that are well within your budget. The third one is 9mm, which you can buy at WalMart for $13 a box, maybe less in your area. You can buy bulk reloads even cheaper.

Or you can spend a little more and get the HHR. You'll save money on .22LR ammo, but .22WMR will cost nearly as much as 9mm.

The HHR, or any other .22 rimfire, is a poor choice for SD. Yes, you can kill someone with one - but they might kill you before they bleed out. A 9mm or larger decreases the chances of that happening.

If you are buying a handgun with the idea that it will back up your primary defense weapon, buy one that's up to the task. If you said "I haul small loads of alfalfa hay (10 bales or so) from my Dad's farm to local 4H kids that are raising lambs using a rough and ready old 3/4 ton Ford pickup, and I'm thinking of buying a Mazda Miata to use as a backup work vehicle", the responses aren't knocking the quality, cost. or appearance of the Miata. They would, however, question it's suitability for the stated purpose. A backup weapon has to assume the function the primary was unable to perform - stopping an attacker from continuing their attack. If the 12ga hasn't done so, a .22 rimfire probably isn't going to scare 'em off. Personally, if I'm backing up a 12ga, I'd consider a 9mm on the small side - but a .45acp will cost nearly twice as much to feed. The 9mm is probably your best choice that can work with your budget.

Eat some mac and cheese. Stall the cable bill. Find a used .38 or G-19.

Eat some mac and cheese. Stall the cable bill. Find a used .38 or G-19.
You know, long time ago Jeff Cooper pretty much said the same thing.

He said to stop eating out for a while, cut down unneeded expenditures, and save for a quality gun. He had a point.

For right now I'd just get a Bersa .380 (easy to find) and then cut down on expenditures till you have the money for a real good gun be it a SIG, Glock, H&K, S&W, Browning, Springfield Armory, etc...

And yes the Makrov is an option. Reliable as a Glock.

But later do get a more powerful piece be it a simi-auto or wheelgun.

Deaf

Hi Point will be better than the Heritage R.R. for defense until the OP gets his S&W.

Then the Hi Point will be redundant in function and purpose to the S&W, as well as inferior to it, and will likely not be used. Being a .22 plinker, the RR will not be redundant at all. It will not have outlived it's purpose.

If the OP lives/works in a crappy neighborhood and it'll be two years before he can buy the Smith, then the HP may be the way to go. If he lives in a decent neighborhood and it'll be 4 months till he can get the Smith, then I'd get the R.R.

Rough riders are a lot of fun to shoot.

Be find for a single man but my son would kill me long before I have to worry about getting a firearm for protection from outside source if I told him Mac and Cheese and No cartoon channels.

Really to each their own. I have decided to go with the HRR. It something that I will enjoy even after getting a better pistol. I live in a good town with low crime. It may be 2 years or 6 months before I can get my Smith but I'm fine with that. After all I don't really expect the Mossberg to fail and IF it does If something should happen then IF the low life trying to break in to my home doesn't run after getting shot 6 times with .22mag and If after taking those shots can still take me on then I'd say not much of anything else would of helped as he had lady luck on his side.

When I was in college many years ago, I really wanted to be able to have a pistol to protect myself and my wife. I was working part time for minimum wage, but managed to save up $200.

I bought something like this: a used .22 Ruger MKII. (http://www.gunauction.com/search/displayitem.cfm?itemnum=11090214) You can, obviously, still get something like that.

I shot the snot out of it, got very, very good with it, and used it to chase off a guy who was trying to get in a hotel room we were in one night on a road trip. I still have it, still shoot the snot out of it, and tomorrow, it's going to be one of the guns a newbie shooter uses to get broken in to shooting handguns. It is my wife's favorite gun.

I consider it a better defense weapon than a single-action .22, even in .22 mag, because it holds more rounds, and you can fire them much, much faster, and reloading is much, much faster. They feel good, they are very accurate, very reliable, very rugged. I would get a used Ruger MKII before a new HRR, in your situation.

That said, I love my Ruger Single Six, and would not consider myself unarmed if it were my only gun, even if I only had a .22LR cylinder instead of the convertible I do have.

Get what makes you happy. It's your money. I would not buy a 9mm in your shoes, because as you said, you wouldn't be able to afford to shoot it. I would get a .22 and that 12guage, and shoot them a lot.

The HiPoint for sure. And in time, when you have plenty of money and a gun collection that pleases you, you'll look at the HiPoint (which you should keep of course because of it's memories and it will still be working perfectly) and think back on to old times.
A single shot .22 really makes very little sense.
B

Just to be contrary, I will support your HRR plan -- I have one now that is fun to shoot and pretty accurate. Running the 22 Mags through it is icing on the cake.

This is actually my second HRR -- on the first one the barrel was clocked off a few degrees so the POA was off. I traded that one in, and later found one with a straight front sight. It is a nice looking pistol with laminated grips and a case hardened frame. It was less than $200.

So my advice would be to check the clocking on the barrel/front sight, find one that lines up straight, and enjoy!

Just to be contrary, I will support your HRR plan -- I have one now that is fun to shoot and pretty accurate. Running the 22 Mags through it is icing on the cake.

This is actually my second HRR -- on the first one the barrel was clocked off a few degrees so the POA was off. I traded that one in, and later found one with a straight front sight. It is a nice looking pistol with laminated grips and a case hardened frame. It was less than $200.

So my advice would be to check the clocking on the barrel/front sight, find one that lines up straight, and enjoy!
I have heard of a few people having that issue. Was planning on buying new so I would have 1 year warranty to return it if it has any defects.