[Stand_Watie]

I'm replacing my carry gun (38 snub revolver) for an autoloader in the near future and would like to hear recommendations for a reliable, small, inexpensive pistol in a caliber of 9mm or greater.

I won't be putting thousands and thousands of rounds through this, but would like to be able to put a couple boxes through it every now and then and have it last for quite a few years. I'm considering new, or (considering my budget more likely) good condition used.



edit
(arrrrrgggggg!!)

moderators, I meant to put this in the handguns autoloaders forum. I won't be mad at you if you move it.

[BeLikeTrey]

I have fired a few Kahr pistols. IIRC the MK-9 was a nice small and well balanced pistol.

[BeLikeTrey]

Keltech has a line of inexpensive and small pistols.

[harrydog]

I'd try to find a used Kahr K9 or Mk9. It should last you a lifetime, even if you do shoot it quite a bit, and reliability is almost never an issue with the steel Kahrs.

[critter]

The Kahr MK9 or its polymer frame equivalent. I have the MK9 (in 9mm obviously), but they make a .40! Good, solid, reliable, da with a good, smooth trigger, accurate for a small gun, no 'controls'-you either pull the long trigger and it shoots or if you don't it won't, and it is small. The MK9 is a little on the heavy side to carry in thin pants pockets is its only obvious drawback. The polymer verison may be better.

[DigMe]

How small do you want it? It's no pocket pistol but I love my Springfield XD subcompact. It's currently available in 9mm but it will soon be available in .40. It's inexpensive and reliable.

brad cook

[Stand_Watie]

How small do you want it?

I'd say that's about the large end of the spectrum that I'm interested in. What do you think a good price on that in good used shape should be?

[DigMe]

I got mine with 600 rounds through it in fantastic condition along with a Don Hume IWB holster and a Comp-Tac FBI Slide holster for $350.00.

I found that deal in the "Trading Post" area of the www.hs2000talk.com forum. I would not pay more than $350 used.

brad cook

[Sean Smith]

If I was looking for a wee autoloader in 9mm or greater, I think Kahr is the way to go. If you can carry something bigger IWB, there are ALOT of good choices... probably too many to list here.

[Ankeny]

Well, I am looking for a small 9mm autoloader. What's the word on the polymer variety of Kahr?

[1holegrouper]

If it becomes a toss up between Kahr and Kel-Tek: I would to go the range and rent both. After that you will find the extra $ and get the Kahr. There is absolutely no comparison.

[azrael]

Kel-tec P-11....although the trigger sucks from the factory...

[DDGator]

The Kel-Tec P-3AT is as easy a gun to carry as you will ever find. The Kel-Tec P-11 is reasonably small, but packs 10+1. KTs are very inexpensive.

Check out the Kel-Tec Owners Group at www.ktog.org or the KT Range at www.ktrange.com -- there is a large group of very dedicated owners to help you out with any questions or problems.

I had a Kahr PM9. I still have my Kel-Tec.

Duane
www.KDHolsters.com

[mini14jac]

Another vote for the Kahr PM9.
1000 rds. and no noticeable wear.

[SW9mm]

i like the s&w cs9. i jokingly call it my "semi auto snubby". i think it fits your criteria.

[SapperLeader]

I currently have a jframe s&w 643 and Im saving up for a kahr pm9, both seem to be among the best for small pocket carry guns. I debated between the kahr pm9 and mk9, but decided I didnt intend this to be a range gun, and Id be better off with the weight savings for carry

[Gunmeister]

Without a doubt, KAHR is the way to go. Highly reliable, easily concealed, very accurate and highly under-rated. Kahr's have a trigger action that is the best out of the box available. The machine work is outstanding, built like a Swiss watch. For a mid-priced semi-auto, there are none better, some may be equal but none better. Nothing compares with a Kahr's concealability, nothing. Really a fine all around self defense handgun.

[itgoesboom]

I vote XD-9 subcompact. Small, 10+1, 9mm and it has a good trigger.

Should be right about $400 NIB.

I.G.B.

[Josey]

The CZ RAMI is THE 9MM for you. www.jgsales.com $439.99 and worth more.

[dairycreek]

I can tell you that the Kel-tec P-11 has worked quite well for me. It has been reliable and allows one to carry 10 + 1 rounds of 9mm. I got mine with the clip that can be fastened to the side of the P-11 thus allowing the pistol to be carried by fastening it IWB and carrying without a holster. For me this has proven to be a excellent way to carry and I recommend it highly. Good shooting;)

[Stand_Watie]

Not sure what "inexpensive" means to you but.............

I was thinking 150 to 250 in good used shape.

I keep seeing people comment on what pieces of junk Jennings and Lorcins are - so I thought I'd get a few recommendations so I don't buy something thats going to break or be unreliable.

[mini14jac]

Sorry, I didn't see the "inexpensive" part.
The Kahr P or PM guns go for $500+.
You may be able to find the all-steel MK9 used for $300-400.

The KelTec P11 is not a bad choice, but with a long, hard trigger, and stiff recoil.
(If you had a aluminum revolver, the P11 recoil will be similar, in my opinion.)
I've never shot a Makarov, but I've read a lot of good things, and the price is right up your alley.

[Sean Smith]

I was thinking 150 to 250 in good used shape.

I think the only reliable autoloader at that price point is a Makarov or one of its variants. You can get used Ruger P-series guns at the high end of that price point, but they are too big for your intended purpose. And even used copies of smaller CZs are going to bust a $250 budget. You might be able to find a used EAA Witness Compact at that price point, but it would be on the large/heavy side. I wouldn't recommend Kel-Tecs based on my experience.

[azrael]

p-11's go for 229.-250. down here:D

[cratz2]

If I had no guns and wanted a small 9mm, I'd try to do whatever it took to get a polymer Kahr. Either the P9 or the P9 Covert. The PM9 is nice for possible pocket carry, but I'd rather have a Kahr on my hip than one in my pocket. These are going to start at about $400 used and closer to $500 to $550 new.

And then there's the CZ RAMI which I haven't even held yet.

For less money than that... your options are much more limited with the small guns. The Kel-Tec P11 is the obvious route to go but many have reported problems with them. The company is known for excellent customer service and will fix any problems you have. I can recommend the P11 with the understanding that there's probably about a 25% chance it won't run right for the first two months. Hopefully it will, but it might not.

A used Glock 26 or a used baby XD are going to be larger than the others I've listed but should be 100% reliable 99% of the time. ;) Should be able to find them used for $350 to $400.

[minnesota oldie]

How about used S&W 36 snubby in .38 special. There a lots of them around for $200-250.

[Rico567]

The notion of a carry gun is very difficult to pin down. I discount this as a "duty" question, which automatically ups the ante to something that's just not comfortable. Now, to many people "comfort" sounds like a sissy concept- but it it ain't comfortable, sooner or later you're going to take it off when you shouldn't or not have it with you that one time....and you know the rest. You think it doesn't apply to you, but it does, baby, it does. That means concealable AND comfortable.

So what's "comfortable?" Since I live in a non-carry state, I've never been able to deal with that question personally, but I did deal with it with two people. One was a friend in a CCW state who wrestled with this problem endlessly, tried a half-dozen different guns. The gun he actually ended up carrying was a Beretta Bobcat .25 ACP. Although he tried larger guns (he also tried the Tomcat, in .32, as well as all the others), he discovered that the tiny Beretta was the only one he could wear and forget about.
The second guy is a cop, and his concern, as he has been given more investigative duties, was a fairly concealable gun that still had respectable stopping power. "Respectable," in this case, and this is supported by some authorities on the subject, he took to be .380 (9mm Kurz). After reviewing the choices, he decided that the only acceptable candidate was the current manufacture Walther PPK stainless.

{Note: I realize the whole idea of "small" is relative. I also think the criteria presented here are relevant, and the solutions, for the individuals involved, are reasonable. I also realize there are people on this forum who could make a .454 Casull seem reasonable as a "-small concealed carry gun." Nevertheless.}

[Frenchy]

IMHO...if I'm going to trust my life to something cheap, it's going to be a good used wheelgun.

[gbelleh]

Choices are limited in this price range.

Some ideas to consider:

Makarov (though it's 9x18)
Used Astra or Firestar or something
RAP 401
Kel-Tec P-11
Hi-Point???

[Stand_Watie]

I have heard a lot of good stuff about the Makarov, and the price definitely seems right - are they only in 9mm, and is 9x18 the standard 9mm cartridge? Are these 10 round magazines? I see them sold as 'Russian', 'Polish' and 'Bulgarian", are all of these of decent quality or is there one or more I should stay away from? Are there any other nationality Makarovs and if there are are they also of decent quality?

Reliabilty is really my main concern, this is not going to be a target pistol.

[Rico567]

The Makarov is a great little pistol. Mine is the Russian commercial IJ-70 "Baikal" model in 9x18. Makarovs can also be had in 9mm Kurz (.380 Auto, 9x17). The actual 9mm Makarov bullet is a bit different, as iit has a larger diameter than the other "nines." It absolutely does not handle the 9mm Para. (9x19) as this round is a more powerful beast entirely, and requires a locked-breech pistol. The smallest 9mm Parabellum pistol I know of would be something like the Glock 26. The Makarov is about at the upper end of blowback operated pistols. As a concealment weapon, though, it is not all that compact. It's pretty flat, but is bigger than a PP or PPK.

[SW9mm]

stand go to www.makarov.com lots of good info about makarovs. i have a bulgarian military model. from what i hear they are the brutes of the bunch.

[Mastrogiacomo]

Beretta type M

[yzguy]

love my P-11 :)
http://www.1bad69.com

[Cosmoline]

A Walther PP or (if you have the $$) a PPK is a great choice. They're little pistols that shoot like big ones. Very, very accurate and well engineered.

[CZSteve]

I'll through another vote in for a Makarov.

Picked-up a Bulgarian for Christmas for $143.00 total TT&L.

If you don't mind dropping down to a 9x18 as opposed to a 9x19, the Mak is hard to beat.

Reliable, Accrurate, Reliable, Fun to shoot, Reliable, Cheap Ammo ($), and Re...; sorry:rolleyes:

I personally love the look and feel of the gun also.
Kinda unique w/ character.
Can't believe I was torn between a KelTec P-11 and the Mak at one time.
(no disrespect to KelTec; just really love my Mak)

[DontShootMe]

I recommend the Bersa Thunder .380

It's a 9mm short (.380)
It's cheap (got mine used for under $200)
It's reliable (no jams yet, other people say the same)
It's small (jacket pocket is where mine goes)

Bonus:

It's not a bad looking gun - a look similar to the Walther PPK
Holds 7+1 (more than a standard revolver)

and... loaded with Cor-Bon or Gold Dot rounds, this puppy is NO JOKE.

http://www.silahnet.com/images/katalog/bersa_th380.jpg

[mini14jac]

I'm surprised it took so long for someone to mention the Bersa.
I've got a KelTec .380 which is way tiny, but I would still love a Bersa.
The looks of a Walther, the reliability of a Glock, at a better price than a KelTec.
Around here, new nickel ones can be had for $189 before tax.

CZsteve,
If I could find a new Mak that cheap, I'd probably have to go sell a pint of blood or something. :evil: :D
As a matter of fact, outside of gun shows, (double the price you found) the major dealers near me don't even carry Makarovs.

What gives?

[verbatim]

Unless you are planning to strictly pocket carry, go with a Glock 19. 16 rounds of 9mm in a very compact, but very handy package. The thing is stupid accurate and as reliable as a handgun can get. If compact is a consideration, the 19 wins in more ways than one everytime. If it is subcompact only, a 26 works and holds 11 rounds of 9mm. If pocket carry is what you are after, a PM9 is the way to go with 7 rounds of 9mm.

[Rico567]

Got my Russian IJ-70 "Baikal" model Makarov, which is a commercial model in the "pretty good" category of fit & finish, adjustable sights, back a few years ago when they could be had for $125 NIB with extra magazine and cleaning rod. It's been a good gun, as dependable as a rock, quite accurate, and a small step up from a .380 in power (although none of these blowback pistols are even close to the 9x19 Parabellum round). I suspect, since Makarovs come from so many sources (military surplus, East German, Bulgarian, Russian, and probably some I've never heard of), that they're where you find them. A brief stroll through AA showed new ones in the $180 range. Guess I should have bought a six-pack; not sure I'd buy today at these prices. It may be that the Bersa is a better deal.

[M2 Carbine]

The Makarov

http://www.aimsurplus.com/acatalog/copy_of_Pistols.html

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread...threadid=223930

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthre...&threadid=67126

www.makarov.com



Or for smaller
The Polish P-64

http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=202553&highlight=p64

[incursion]

Rohrbaugh R9s

[ponyexpress]

If I can throw in my .02 worth on this, I have a friend with a CCW who use to carry a Makarov but stopped because he felt to was too heavy. He said it was a great gun but being all steel it was just too uncomfortable at the end of the day. He now carries a Kahr or a Glock, depending on the time of year.

[Stand_Watie]

Well since I think no one has mentioned it...
I recommend the Bersa Thunder .380

It's a 9mm short (.380)
It's cheap (got mine used for under $200)
It's reliable (no jams yet, other people say the same)
It's small (jacket pocket is where mine goes)

Bonus:

It's not a bad looking gun - a look similar to the Walther PPK
Holds 7+1 (more than a standard revolver)

and... loaded with Cor-Bon or Gold Dot rounds, this puppy is NO JOKE.


Well I had it narrowed down to the Makarov and the Bersa and I wound up with the Bersa at about the same price. Even though it's less of a cartridge - I really like the looks, and I really like the decocker and the safety. The one I got was the bottom tier priced one just like the one pictured below

http://www.bersa-llama.com/img/guns/thun380lt_dt_lg.gif

[entropy]

"should be 100% reliable 99% of the time."

ROFLMAO! Yogi Berra lives! http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=838279



http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?s=&postid=890615

[Win75]

I vote for the Kahr PM9. Light weight, small, great trigger, and goes boom every time I pull the trigger. It does not get any better than that.

David.