[beex215]

ive been testing cast reloads and i cant seem to get any better then 2.5 inch groups at only 20 feet. at 40 feet they open up to about 5.5 inches. i have not been shooting factory or jacketed in quite some time, so i dont really have a base line control. im still in testing and still have many things to try out but what do you consider as accurate?

im talking about pistols. i mainly shoot pistols. p95 9mm and m&p 40.

[T Bran]

Are you shooting from a supported rest of some sort?
If not you may be introducing the human element to your groups.
Just a thought.

[Friendly, Don't Fire!]

How accurate does your pistol NEED TO BE is really the question.

When shooting my carry weapons, I typically set up targets at 21 feet (7 yards) and I shoot the pistol off a 6x6 block of wood with some rags on top.

I can usually pull in a 'several-inch' group (like in about 3" groups at that range)!

If you think you need to be more accurate than that, perhaps another type of gun would be more suited to your needs. If I need to shoot further than, say, an average-size room in my house (within 12'), then instead of using my pistol, I will either use my AR or my 12 gauge.

[SimplyChad]

For HD/SD that will do fine

[CountryUgly]

The average man is 20 inches across the chest. From his navel to the top of his sternum is about 12 inches. From the chin to the top of his head is about 10 inches and across his face from ear to ear is about 12 inches.

Now if you are just wanting to be accurate enough for SD your good according to the size of an average man. If you're planning on bullseye shooting you got a long way to go. If you are not already using a Ransom rest get one and I'll bet your groups shrink and It'll give you a better idea of how accurate your gun is then all you have to do is get as good as your gun. For me my gun still shoots better than I.

[beex215]

im shooting standing off hand. i get the idea that rifle are capable of much more and do produce better results with them.

[Certaindeaf]

Accurate is about 2" at fifty yards.

[Stormin.40]

As has been said you are okay where you are, but if you are like me you will continue to pursue a more accurate load until you reach what you believe is the most accurate. I only stoped when I could get 5 rounds touching at 7yds, I am not a good enough shot to stretch that out any further.

My bench mark was the accuracy my gun and I were capable of with factory ammunition, I then set out to make loads more accurate than these. Keep in mind that pistols with fixed sights are set for specific bullet weights so you will want to start with this in mind.

[Meta]

At 20 feet I can shoot any of my pistols, Glocks, Sigs, S&W, Colts, well under an inch or better off hand, every group, no problem. At that distance, generally my better target pistols will shoot one ragged hole, rarely larger than double the diameter of the caliber. In fact, most defensive pistols will shoot that well, it's just harder to get them to perform with heavy or crappy triggers, but the inherent accuracy is there. A six inch group at 50 yards is roughly an inch at 20 feet and six inch groups are where I might expect an off the shelf defensive auto pistol to shoot at 50 yards, from a machine rest.

[BaltimoreBoy]

A little semantic quibble: keep in mind the difference between accuracy and precision.

If your 2.5" groups are centered on the bull your shooting may be said to be accurate but not especially precise. In contrast, if you had consistent 3/4" groups at 10 o'clock on the 7 ring, your shooting would be precise, but not accurate.

Assuming that the pattern is accurate, the precision you already have is sufficient for self defense.

I think keeping that distinction in mind is useful

[kb58]

How big your house is pretty much answers the question. Figure the distance from the hallway leading toward your bedroom to the opposite side of the living room, and a 4" target at that distance.

[Owen Sparks]

Off hand? An accurate rifle shoots more accurately than you can.

[9mmepiphany]

Shooting at 20 feet (1 foot shy of 7 yards) from an unsupported standing position, I'd expect any good service pistol to group inside 1.5".

At 40 feet (1 foot more than 13 yards), I wouldn't expect it to open up much beyond 2"...maybe 3" if the gun has a horrible trigger and poor barrel fit.

I know some of you are talking about practical accuracy, but i think the OP is looking for something he can use to develop loads. Personally, for load development, I'd shoot off a rest and expect ~ 1" groups at 25 yards. I don't know about the P95, but the M&P40 should be able to do that

[loose noose]

My Colt Gold Cup 70 Series, .45 acp, National Match from a Ransom rest will shoot 5 rounds into a ragged one hole group measuring about 1.5" from 25 yards, and approximately 3" from the same set-up at 50 yards. Now mind you not all Gold Cups are cabable of the same accuracy. Off hand at 25 yards I'm capable of shooting 2.5 to 3" with the same arm, at 50 yards lets just say I'm lucky to hit the silhouette, 6" groups are not uncommon. Accuracy is but one function in actual self defense. I would say shooting at 20 feet without any stress one should be able to place all the rounds (5-15) into a maximum 2" group.

[TreeDoc]

I shoot combat accuracy with my glock 26 and 17. Combat accuracy to me is about a 4 inch spread or about big as your fist at 7, 15 yards, shooting as fast as you can aquired the target. Benchrest with my blackhawk 357 groups are much smaller at longer distance.

[Owen Sparks]

There is a world of difference between what you can do off a shooting bench and what you can do off hand. Very few people can out shoot a good quality rifle without a bench and sandbags.

[1SOW]

I can't shoot as well as 9mmepiphany, but I agree with what he said. To test just the pistol and ammo, you do need a Ransom Rest. A rest on the bench helps limit shooter influence.

To test the pistol, ammo and shooter; use standing offhand.

Some may not agree, but for this test I believe the target is really important. Most people will have a smaller group shooting at a very small well-defined target on a plain backing. Only one small thing to focus on

When you are done shooting/plinking at the range, put a red 12 gage hull on the 25 yd berm . Shoot as carefully as you can at this target 5 times offhand. With the M&P, I'd bet your group will shrink to what you're getting at 40 feet now or less.

[9mmepiphany]

There is a world of difference between what you can do off a shooting bench and what you can do off hand. Very few people can out shoot a good quality rifle without a bench and sandbags.

Why are you talking about rifles when the OP posted:
im talking about pistols. i mainly shoot pistols. p95 9mm and m&p 40.

[9mmepiphany]

Some may not agree, but for this test I believe the target is really important. Most people will have a smaller group shooting at a very small well-defined target on a plain backing. Only one small thing to focus on
I agree. When working with clients who want to focus on IDPA...which has a generous 8" center scoring zone...I have them practicing on 3" x 5" cards or 2" x 3" Post-It notes.

If you're shooting just inside the 8" center in practice, you'll be dropping points under pressure

[smalls]

Depends. From a rest, those are horrible groups. Drawing from a holster, and "rapid firing", those are acceptable groups. Just shooting from offhand is useless from a defensive pistol, and from a "target" gun, those are disgusting groups.

[9mmepiphany]

Here's something I found rather interesting. At the Bianchi Cup, shooting on the practice range, before competition.

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/so1413/DSC_0157.jpg

At 50 yards, five shots from a 9mm SIG X-5 Allaround, from prone:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y42/so1413/DSC_0159.jpg

[otasan56]

I consider a one-inch group at 25 feet to be accurate enough for self-defense purposes. My G17 and its 115gr JHP +p+ loads are accurate enough.

[Blue68f100]

You said cast reloads. Are you getting any leading?