Gun forfeiture case in NJ


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ilbob
May 23, 2012, 09:21 PM
You can imagine how this went

NJ Gun Forfeiture Case (http://volokh.com/2012/05/23/gun-forfeiture-and-the-defendant-who-remarked-how-easy-it-would-be-for-someone-to-shoot-the-president/#more-60288)

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Rmeju
May 23, 2012, 10:27 PM
I'm glad the appellate court ruled against the state. But when the prosecutor (and forget the judge) brought this theory, totally unsupported as it was, he or she should have been sanctioned.

There has to be a downside for doing that. This is totally ridiculous.

zxcvbob
May 23, 2012, 10:53 PM
I bet he never gets the guns back.

The state will drag its heels and delay for months while in the background it's making sure the guns are "lost" or destroyed. What's their incentive not to? The appellate court has no teeth.

PBR Streetgang
May 23, 2012, 11:21 PM
NJ,unless they changed the law, hollow-points aren't illegal by themselves,the law is possession of hollow-points in the commission of a crime is illegal....................but I have seen people arrested for mere possession of them..........

HGUNHNTR
May 23, 2012, 11:50 PM
^ Yeah, me. It cost $5k and 3 months of my life to get it fixed.

bhesler
May 24, 2012, 01:33 AM
NJ,unless they changed the law, hollow-points aren't illegal by themselves,the law is possession of hollow-points in the commission of a crime is illegal....................but I have seen people arrested for mere possession of them..........

Not sure it if has changed recently, but simple possession is illegal (NJSA 2C:39-3):
"f. Dum-dum or body armor penetrating bullets. (1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet,"

Exceptions are for hunting, target practice, taking home from place of purchase, keeping in your home. As it was determined in Bryan Aitken's appeal, there is no exception for moving from one residence to another, as there is for firearms.

Also, civilians (including retired LEO) who are lucky enough to get a carry permit cannot carry hollow points. From the NJ State Police website: "It should also be noted that, as civilians, retired officers cannot legally carry hollow-point ammunition or utilize high-capacity ammunition magazines (capable of holding more than 15 rounds of ammunition) in the handgun they are carrying."

smalls
May 24, 2012, 01:50 AM
Retired LEO do not need carry permits. They are protected under LEOSA. But, I don't think LEOSA says anything about types of ammunition.

Hypnogator
May 24, 2012, 02:15 AM
But, I don't think LEOSA says anything about types of ammunition.
Which is why I carry Federal EFMJs on the rare occasions when I travel in New Jersey. ;)

smalls
May 24, 2012, 12:57 PM
Like the Law Dog, or whatever it's called? Where the bullet squishes to enlarge it's diameter?

Spats McGee
May 24, 2012, 01:04 PM
I bet he never gets the guns back.

The state will drag its heels and delay for months while in the background it's making sure the guns are "lost" or destroyed. What's their incentive not to? . . . .
Their incentive is 42 USC 1983. Looks to me like they either give back the guns or gear up for a civil rights suit.

o Unforgiven o
May 24, 2012, 01:07 PM
Like the Law Dog, or whatever it's called? Where the bullet squishes to enlarge it's diameter?
Exactly.

heyjoe
May 25, 2012, 01:14 AM
LEOSA was amended in 2010 and ammunition was addressed. it is ok under LEOSA to carry hollowpoints in NJ

PBR Streetgang
May 25, 2012, 08:21 AM
I still wouldn't carry hollow points in NJ due to the confusion in the law there. I see a lot of newer officers are more interested in making an arrest than understanding the fine parts of the laws.

HGUNHNTR
May 25, 2012, 10:30 AM
still wouldn't carry hollow points in NJ due to the confusion in the law there. I see a lot of newer officers are more interested in making an arrest than understanding the fine parts of the laws.

It happened to me. NJ is a stae where you can be totally within the limitations of the law and STILL be charged with a felony. The laws are so convoluted, complex, and rediculous that it makes falsely charging individuals very easy. Whats wrong with that picture?

Frank Ettin
May 25, 2012, 05:32 PM
Not much meaningful discussion of the case -- no reason to keep this going.

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