A very serious "no guns allowed" bank sign

This guy saw the sign. In addition to "no guns" it also said the bank was protected by a "weapons control system." The guy stowed his firearm in his car but left a loaded mag on his belt. The alarms went off, he got locked in the entry, and had to wait for the police to show.

Spooky.

http://sigforum.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/320601935/m/9340096982

Great! So the cops are now gonna respond to everyone who enters the bank wearing steel toed shoes.

I forsee these as a passing fad once local law enforcement starts charging for responding to the false alarms

I was reading the whole thread . I am interested to see how this works out.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2

I bank with Wells Fargo, and not long after getting my CHL I was going into the bank one day and took note that there were no signs telling me that I couldn't carry into the bank. Being a newby to concealed carry, and being ultra nervous about carrying were prohibited, I would have bet the farm that the bank would be prohibited.....well, not the case at all. Wells Fargo has no prohibitions agains lawful gun carriers! That's nice to know!

Great! So the cops are now gonna respond to everyone who enters the bank wearing steel toed shoes.

I forsee these as a passing fad once local law enforcement starts charging for responding to the false alarms

Do you know of false alarms due to shoes happening at a location like this?

Any links or references?

I ask because I have real life experience with a metal detector meant to detect firearms and the like and I don't recall it going off for steel toe shoes, or even full size pocket knives, but it sure did go off for guns. You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.

I would suggest that anyone "trapped" in such a device could sue the bank for false arrest. They are depriving a person of liberty with no indication that a crime is being committed.

So this seems to be the way it plays out...

Alarm goes off
Employee comes and checks customer for IWB carry
Assuming customer passes that check they are allowed in, otherwise the cops are called

So what happens if the bad guy is pocket or ankle carrying? I can fit my glock 29 in some of the bigger pockets of my cargo pants.

What happens if there is a customer walking out at the same time a customer is coming in? Or what if the bad guys have a unarmed accomplice go first and hold the door?

Seems like a good way to catch a dumb robber but otherwise it would be easy to defeat.

Popped in to 'second' the Wells Fargo sentiment. I go to two branches, on a pretty regular basis. I carry all the time, and have no issues there. Great service where I'm from, as well!

I ask because I have real life experience with a metal detector meant to detect firearms and the like and I don't recall it going off for steel toe shoes, or even full size pocket knives, but it sure did go off for guns. You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.


The one the OP referenced went off because of a magazine, so I am not sure how well it can discriminate between various metal objects....could it be dependent on the object's height above the floor?

I also wonder about the fire safety aspect of trapping everyone in a building.

Bob

Hmm, I wonder if it would detect an ankle rig?:evil: Bet, Rob

The one the OP referenced went off because of a magazine, so I am not sure how well it can discriminate between various metal objects....could it be dependent on the object's height above the floor?

I also wonder about the fire safety aspect of trapping everyone in a building.

Bob

The magazine part is concerning.

If there were one near me I'd love to try out various metal objects.

What state did this happen in? I imagine that if it was a state where the signs mean nothing, the bank is going to get sued real quick.

Shaky ground even for states that signs do carry the weight of law.

Sounds like a good time to switch banks.....................chris3

What state did this happen in? I imagine that if it was a state where the signs mean nothing, the bank is going to get sued real quick.

Shaky ground even for states that signs do carry the weight of law.
The poster's location on that board is listed as Indiana. Signs do NOT carry weight of law in Indiana, and banks are perfectly legal for carry (as is almost every other location).

I'd definitely sue them into the ground, either way. Right after I broke out of their box.

Yep, time to change banks and let them know why. Then I would call a lawyer.

Thankfully in the free state of Kentucky I can, and do carry in my bank....

I usually carry, but there are places and times I'll leave it behind. When I am banking I am taking money into or out of a bank, I refuse to be unarmed while I do this.

If there were one near me I'd love to try out various metal objects.I cannot say I would not do the same. It would be fun to figure out some false triggers.

As for the fire problem: This is the Main door, but not the only door. Fire codes require multiple exits in a place of business. However, those doors will most likely be one-way or keyed entry.

Do you know of false alarms due to shoes happening at a location like this?

Any links or references?

I ask because I have real life experience with a metal detector meant to detect firearms and the like and I don't recall it going off for steel toe shoes, or even full size pocket knives, but it sure did go off for guns. You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.

I set every metal detector I go through off with steel toed work boots including ours at the courthouse that was installed post "active shooter" incident.

If a magazine sets it off work boots will too.

Yep, time to change banks and let them know why. Then I would call a lawyer.

Thankfully in the free state of Kentucky I can, and do carry in my bank....

If the poster's location is as listed on his profile, his state is plenty free, and carry in his bank is, with a LTCH, perfectly legal.

But yes, definitely time to bail on that bank.

I set every metal detector I go through off with steel toed work boots including ours at the courthouse that was installed post "active shooter" incident.

I set them off too - airports, state and federal buildings, some businesses. $20,000 worth of orthopedic steel rods replacing bits of the bones in my left leg do that.

it also said the bank was protected by a "weapons control system."

So in other words... A metal detector, right? :rolleyes:

But seriously, what do they do for implants? Hips, knees, etc? Guessing they break out the "hand held weapon location device" aka the hand wand. Anybody sue them yet for screwing with their customers pacemakers every time they pass through the thing?

The guy was detained for doing something that wasn't illegal. There's no law against carrying in a bank in Indiana and signs don't carry force of law. This is a pretty clear cut case of false imprisonment. I really hope this guy follows through.

I'm half tempted to find one of those banks on my way up to visit Detroit next time and catch myself a settlement when I get locked in their small, enclosed space and my claustrophobia sends me into anxiety attacks resulting in injury to myself and emotional trauma my kids would suffer by seeing their father having conniptions on the ground.

Not only is it illegal to detain someone for doing something completely legal in the first place, it's cruel to many people with certain phobias and disorders, not to mention the havoc those machines cause on some medical implant devices such as pacemakers and artificial organs.

Those devices are illegal on face value. They cannot prevent you from leaving without having proof of a crime.

I ask because I have real life experience with a metal detector meant to detect firearms and the like and I don't recall it going off for steel toe shoes, or even full size pocket knives, but it sure did go off for guns. You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.

Last time I flew my key (single) tripped the airport detector.

Last time I flew my key (single) tripped the airport detector.
Yes.

Airport metal detectors are tuned (not sure what the right word is, I'll use tuned) to be MUCH more sensitive.

Like I said, I have personal experience with at least one metal detector that did not go off for a full size pocket knife, or steel toe boots, or a full set of car keys, or change in my pocket, or my belt buckle, but it did go off for a gun.

What if someone who's unarmed walks in at the same time as an armed robber? The robber gets a free hostage.

What if someone who's unarmed walks in at the same time as an armed robber? The robber gets a free hostage.
Well, it does say to enter one person at a time.

Just don't enter with am armed robber.

I guess.

lol

IMO: Stupid bank in stupid.

Not a good situation, but for all the posters discussing steel toed shoes and pocket knives, let's remember that the magazine is very "metal dense", it's almost all metal between the magazine itself and the cartridges, and a hi cap magazine would certainly have a metal detector screaming when car keys, steel toes, and even a common folding knife would not.

Does NOT make this right, but an unloaded Glock might sail right thru, and a loaded magazine on the belt would look like a major threat.

I'd like to see a ruling from the local fire marshal on this. In my state this would get a $10,000 fine for each door. A call to the local and state fire marshal would be a nice present on your way out to a new bank.

I bank with Wells Fargo, and not long after getting my CHL I was going into the bank one day and took note that there were no signs telling me that I couldn't carry into the bank. Being a newby to concealed carry, and being ultra nervous about carrying were prohibited, I would have bet the farm that the bank would be prohibited.....well, not the case at all. Wells Fargo has no prohibitions agains lawful gun carriers! That's nice to know!
I open carry sometimes in th WF branch in Dayton and Fernly NV and have never had anyone say anything or call the cops.

Dumb question: (Texas specific) I've never carried into a bank- always thought it was one of the 'prohibited places'. Am I wrong on this? Internet searching is yielding conflicting/ confusing/ lacking results. Any TEXAS lawyers here?

Some carry rolls of coins into banks, copper, nickel and fake silver. Coupled with a steel pocket knife and it would need to be a metal detector from Ft Knox to discriminate from a gun.

I don't see this as a spreading fad. Some anti-gun nut bank person.

Carry a hammer with you. When they lock you in, smash the glass. Unless it's that bullet proof stuff.

Not a good situation, but for all the posters discussing steel toed shoes and pocket knives, let's remember that the magazine is very "metal dense", it's almost all metal between the magazine itself and the cartridges, and a hi cap magazine would certainly have a metal detector screaming when car keys, steel toes, and even a common folding knife would not.

Does NOT make this right, but an unloaded Glock might sail right thru, and a loaded magazine on the belt would look like a major threat.
Standard cartridges should not set off a metal detector unless they have steel cases or steel in the bullet/jacket. MOST ammo does not have any ferrous metal in it at all.

Here bank carry is not legally off limits, but trespassing is.

If asked to leave private property for any reason you must. If you don't, then you are committing a crime

So would a bank ask everyone setting off the "weapon detector" to leave?

Oh please, please private citizen / bank employee, please search me, please take possession of my pistol without my consent, I've always wanted to own a bank.

what does it mean to have weight of law as reffered in former posts?
as i have been told a no weapons sign means no weapons?
if what i understand is correct a state may or may not stand behind the posting of a sign. does this mean that even if a sign is up it is void? is this something local LE would know about? half of those guys dont know what open carry is. how do i find out if this applies to my state?

I relayed this story to some friends at dinner.

Some reactions: (And my comments)

"If they didnt let me out, I would urinate in there. If they hassled me about it, I was scared. I've never been locked up before." (Kind of childish, but would leave a "lasting effect".)


"If that thing locked me in, I would tell my wife to drive the truck thru it and get me out. We would wait for the cops outside and explain my fear of claustrophobia!" (Probably get arrested for this one.)


"I would just get you guys to stand outside with OPENLY CARRIED weapons to escort me back to my car afterwords. I wonder how they would like a dozen armed men standing outside the door so three people can bank inside?" (I actually kind of liked this one. Since the guns stay outside, you will not be locked in.)

My usual question from which ever teller that I end up with is "How many bulls did you get today at the range." Usually followed by "Can I go next time, you haven't taken me there lately":D Small town we all know each other world.:cool:

what does it mean to have weight of law as reffered in former posts?
What people mean by that is, that if the sign DOES carry the "weight of law", carrying a gun into a business that is posted is in fact a criminal offense.


as i have been told a no weapons sign means no weapons?

Without 'the weight of law' it's about the same thing as a sign that says you have to wear shoes or a shirt to enter an establishment. If you don't, you aren't breaking the law.

In any case, however, if an employee or representative of the business asks/tells you to leave, and you do not you are probably committing a crime (trespass) at that time...and in some states being armed is an aggravating factor that increases the severity of the crime.


if what i understand is correct a state may or may not stand behind the posting of a sign. does this mean that even if a sign is up it is void? is this something local LE would know about? half of those guys dont know what open carry is. how do i find out if this applies to my state?

Where do you live?

www.handgunlaw.us

The fire safety aspect of this really has me interested. Fire science is one of the things I am studying right now, (trying to get on with a professional department in my area) and where I live, that would be a very serious code violation.

Hey Texan Scott, in reference to your question about prohibited places in Texas I copied the following from the TxDPS CHL FAQ site.

35. I am a Texas Concealed Handgun License (CHL) holder. Are there any places where I cannot carry my concealed handgun?

Yes. §46.035, Texas Penal Code prohibits carrying of handguns and other weapons in certain places. These include but are not limited to:
On the premises of a business that derives 51% or more of its income from the sale or service of alcoholic beverages for on-premises consumption
On the premises where a high school, collegiate, or professional sporting or interscholastic event is taking place
On the premises of a correctional facility
On the premises of a hospital or nursing home (unless licensee has written authorization)
In an amusement park
On the premises of a church, synagogue, or other place of worship
At any meeting of a governmental entity

§46.02, Texas Penal Code and §46.03, Texas Penal Code also specifically prohibit handguns or weapons under other circumstances and from other locations other than those listed above. For example: It is against Texas law to carry a concealed handgun if the person has the handgun in plain view; or if the person is engaged in a criminal activity (other than a Class C traffic offense); or if prohibited from possessing a firearm, or is a member of a criminal street gang. Some other areas where weapons are prohibited include the premises of polling places on the day of an election or during early voting, the premises of any government court, the premises of a racetrack, in a secured are of an airport or within 1,000 feet of premises designated as a place of execution on the day a sentence of death is set to be imposed.

The Department of Public Safety cannot provide legal advice to CHL holders. For additional information and exceptions, please see Texas Penal Code Chapter 46. You may also consider contacting the local law enforcement or the local County or District Attorney for more information about carrying a weapon in your area.

I don't see banks listed and I certainly carry to my local bank.

To me this looks like false imprisonment or something of that nature. If it isn't illegal to carry a gun, let alone a magazine in a posted no guns bank, then they illegally detained him when no crime was committed. I like that hammer idea, would that be illegal if you are using it to escape illegal detainment?

Here is my legal opinion worth every penny you have not paid me.

As private property they have the right to not let you carry your gun into their building, however, they do not have the right to lock the door behind you and not let you leave!! :cuss:

That would be illegal restraint and I would tell them not to ever do that again or I would have them arrested!!!

I love guns. I laork in a bank. I live in Illinois where there is no concealed carry law.

I have no issue with someone carrying a gun but look at it from the perspective of the bank teller

They are trained to look for anything unusually or things that could be dangerous. A CCW is dangerous despite how legal it is. Most bank tellers are not firearm friendly and most are not really experienced (in fact most are very young and really really lack experience). You can see where any
One carrying a fun would be considered a threat. Especially if the CCW was noticed by feller. I would almost, in this situation, he happier if the weapon wasn't concealed because thieves hide things, honest men don't, especially in the eyes of someon that has $15,000 in front of them. (I'm not saying all people that conceal carry are thieves).

Now myself I would ask them what they were carrying and if they preferred these over a gun I own in that size or caliber :)

I actually had our former sheriff, now a locksmith, sell me a s&w model 41. He wanted to bring it to the bank for me to test drive and I wouldn't let him.

Also, before you judge all banks there might be a federal regulation prohibiting firearms on premises unless carried by a.LEO, or that particular branch may be in a neighborhoos that is a problem or maybe that branch has been robbed in the past.

Please don't think every place that asks to leave you weapon in the car is anti gun. Just might have. Slome reason which most people should understand.

Now everyone rip me apart. :D
,

It would. Most likely be that they locked the door in front of them. Banks wouldn't want you in, they want you OUT if you are being dangerous

I

Also, before you judge all banks there might be a federal regulation prohibiting firearms on premises unless carried by a.LEO

What federal regulation could that possibly be?

People bring this up from time to time but my understanding is that there is no way your local bank branch, that is open to and serves the general public, would have such a regulation to worry about.

Also, before you judge all banks there might be a federal regulation prohibiting firearms on premises unless carried by a.LEO, or that particular branch may be in a neighborhoos that is a problem or maybe that branch has been robbed in the past.

Never have I heard of such a regulation on the Federal level prohibiting carrying into a bank. Many banks have been robbed in the past yet still allow legal carry. No matter the history, no bank has the legal right to stop and detain those legally carrying a gun. If they don't like someone carrying a gun, then they ask them to leave, NOT illegally detain then when no crime has been committed.

Like I said. Might be. I wouldn't know because it does not pertain to Illinois where it is illegal to conceal carry. I'm not supporting the bank not letting you in just making you aware that some tellers might be very tentative, scared, if they noticed a concealed gun.

I agree that if I was taking large ums of cash out of the bank and it was egalitarian for me to armed I would want to be armed.

Banks are not fast food restaurants, shopping malls, gas stations , etc. the are historically targeted for violent armed robbery ue to the large amount of cash on hand all the time.

I have often thought about if Illinois was a legal conceal carry state would the bank allow me to carry? I doubt they would but I am sure we would not restrict lawful carrying of a Firearm by a customer. We had a guy threaten to attack a teller if she don't give him money and we had to walk him outside till cops arrived no weapon involved. Ended up being harmless but that teller was very upset or quite a long time and very "gunny" pardon the pun

Like I said. Might be.

I am pretty sure not.

I agree they should not detain them. In fact we want them to get the hell out if they are a threat so we would rather them leave than be trapped. Is everyone 100% sure the situation that started the thread was actually trapped between two locked doors. The press and rumor mill have been know to exaggerate details.

I can see them locked the entry door but not the exit (most banks you have to go through two sets of doors to get in

Is everyone 100% sure the situation that started the thread was actually trapped between two locked doors. The press and rumor mill have been know to exaggerate details.

I don't see how we could be 100% sure, but I highly doubt the press or the rumor mill exaggerated details considering that the thread was started, and the first post describing what happened was written, by the person this (allegedly) happened to. In other words...right from the horses mouth, it is.

Warp, there are a whole set of Bank regs that most people have no clue exist. Reg o, reg cc, reg b, reg z, etc. I agree that I doubt there is one but I have never read them front to back so I cannot say there isn't But I doubt there is.

Warp, there are a whole set of Bank regs that most people have no clue exist. Reg o, reg cc, reg b, reg z, etc. I agree that I doubt there is one but I have never read them front to back so I cannot say there isn't But I doubt there is.

wolfe, people have been ignorantly throwing around the supposed possibility or existence of a law or regulation like that for some time, and nobody has yet come forward with so much as an attempt at proving that it actually exists. (scope: far beyond just this thread)

Also, I am currently a student, a finance major, actually (T minus 9 weeks till I should be finished) and one of the courses I took last semester was all about Financial Institutions...which basically meant banks.

I have never yet seen or been shown anything, anywhere, that leads me to believe that there is any chance that this mythical regulation actually exists.

Sorry, was it established that it was a metal detector? It seems ludicrous that a bank would have an entrance that automatically locks down when metal is detected. If it did, it would happen dozens of times a day! Perhaps it was something else. My father-in-law was detained once at an airport because, according to him, he had just come from the range and cordite was detected on him by some machine. Whether or not such a detector exists, I don't know, but it seems more likely than a metal detector that traps people automatically.

wolfe, what's your angle here? You keep referencing things that "might" exist (but don't). If you don't know, what are you contributing to this thread? It appears you didn't even read the thread linked to in the original post.

Warp, congrats on the 9 weeks, the finance degree will serve you well, it has me. However, if you had a class on bank regulations you should go tell you academic advisor to go to hell, how would you stay awake during that lecture. Wow boring stuff

We'll agree that the reg prohibiting carry in bank is false.

I think that branch screwed up be locking him in and could be subject to some serious litigation. I wold guess they have been robbed several times and that is yet another case of the criminals make it tougher on the law abiding citizens.

Don't overlook my paranoia point by a teller seeing a gun. Like I said I'd want to talk to the customer about what they were carrying.

Ok, so, um, lets just think, you just locked a potentially armed individual in a small room, I'm pretty sure a determined criminal would have little trouble shooting out of that unless some SERIOUS effort and quite a bit of knowledge went into it. I have seen similar in Mexico, but then the guards were armed with machine guns, they were stationed at murder holes and it was made of heavy ballistic glass, as in inches thick.

Warp, congrats on the 9 weeks, the finance degree will serve you well, it has me. However, if you had a class on bank regulations you should go tell you academic advisor to go to hell, how would you stay awake during that lecture. Wow boring stuff

We'll agree that the reg prohibiting carry in bank is false.

I think that branch screwed up be locking him in and could be subject to some serious litigation. I wold guess they have been robbed several times and that is yet another case of the criminals make it tougher on the law abiding citizens.

Don't overlook my paranoia point by a teller seeing a gun. Like I said I'd want to talk to the customer about what they were carrying.

Bingo.

The sign...fine.

Enforcing the sign, even calling police, if somebody is 'made' carrying...fine.

Locking somebody out due to the metal detector...fine.

Detaining them? For setting off a metal detector? NO. :cuss:


BTW: I have openly carried down here, and will do so again. The gun paranoia thing...it's mostly an Illinois/liberal state thing. ;)

You can drag me the coals all you want. But do you want your wife or daughter or son for that matter to be doing their job as a teller with 10-15,000 dollars in front of them and be freaked out by a weird customer carrying a gun. Guns and money don't mix well. Can you conceal carry in a casino? I don't know but same temptations there


I've pissed enough people off for today. Those of you that can carry, please do and please do it responsibly.

You can drag me the coals all you want. But do you want your wife or daughter or son for that matter to be doing their job as a teller with 10-15,000 dollars in front of them and be freaked out by a weird customer carrying a gun. Guns and money don't mix well. Can you conceal carry in a casino? I don't know but same temptations there

Better make a law against weird people going into banks.

I wish they would. People would get more work done. But it would be tough to define weird.

I wish they would. People would get more work done. But it would be tough to define weird.
Please tell me that was a joke.

You can drag me the coals all you want. But do you want your wife or daughter or son for that matter to be doing their job as a teller with 10-15,000 dollars in front of them and be freaked out by a weird customer carrying a gun. Guns and money don't mix well. Can you conceal carry in a casino? I don't know but same temptations there

Sorry, but you're just repeating the anti sentiment* that guns and law abiding citizens might be fine in some places, but can all of a sudden be violent criminals simply by being somewhere else. If "Bob" is fine carrying a gun at Wal-Mart standing in front of a cashier with a register full of money, he's just as fine at the bank doing the same thing. There is no mystical energy surrounding banks, schools, hospitals, theaters, or any other building that turn non-violent citizens into violent criminals.

Sorry, but you can't just say "guns and money don't mix". This is a forum of thinkers and facts. If you're going to make an assertion like that, you need to lay out the mechanics of it. What about guns and money "don't mix'? What property of money when added to a human carrying a firearms causes spontaneous violence? We're all prepared to read and consider your argument, but you actually have to make a real one. A serious "If A=B and B=C, than A=C" style argument. Something with facts, logic, mechanics and real data. Do that, and I'll accept "guns and money don't mix". But without that, I just cant accept your theory.



*Yes I know most antis think that guns are bad everywhere. But I'm talking about the "logic" behind "gun free zones" and such, where they at least grudgingly accept concealed carry some places, but not others.

Is everyone 100% sure the situation that started the thread was actually trapped between two locked doors. The press and rumor mill have been know to exaggerate details.^In the posted story he said he had to wait til the Police let him out. If it were open to the outside he probably would have left.

Can you conceal carry in a casino?
^Nope, can't carry where they primarily serve alchohol.

^
^Nope, can't carry where they primarily serve alchohol.

In which states?

Also, what do you mean by "primarily serve alcohol"?

Yes I was joking about the weird people comment.

Guns and money don't mix. Good people, law abiding people, do things that are 180 degrees from their normal law abiding selves when money is involved. Good christian Lawyers steal from big estates because they have tax issues and they think it can get replaced before anyone notices. Desperate people do desperate things. A good law abiding man goes in the bank and sees someone carrying enough money to save his house, farm from foreclosure, his kid from jail, if he is desperate enough and legally carrying he is more likely to commit the crime than someone that is not carrying.

You might argue that is far fetched but is it? What would any of us do if we were at our wits end and about to lose things that are important to us? I hope I woudn't but the temptation is there.

A bank teller is much more at risk than a wal-mart cashier, or most cashiers for that matter. Bank tells have 10,000+ at their fingertips at all times. Wal-Mart cashiers don't carry that in a drawer.

No one answered my question about casinos, can you conceal carry in a casino? The only difference between the bank and a casino is the liquor and the fun. Both have large Amounts of cash on hand.

Banks are all about security. If someone wants money we give it to them especially if there risk of some being harmed. But people make mistakes when under pressure like a robbery, say the wrong thing scream when they see the gun.

Here is another scenario. You carry and are minding your business, a guy begins to rob the bank. Do you draw on him? You say no but in the stress you draw and put everyone at risk.

That is why I don't think guns and money don't mix. Too much temptation and people Mae mistakes, sometimes bad mistakes.

If someone can tell me it is legal to carry in a casino I apologize for wasting everyone's time and the hard drive space on the server.

Thanks for the excellent conversation. I'll stick to the handloading section from now in. Sorry to offend, I guess since I work in that environment I see it differently.

But I do agree locking that dude between two doors is BS.

A good law abiding man goes in the bank and sees someone carrying enough money to save his house, farm from foreclosure, his kid from jail, if he is desperate enough and legally carrying he is more likely to commit the crime than someone that is not carrying.

Can you show me an example, any example, of a licensed and legal carrier robbing a bank?

Just one, single, solitary example, as a jumping off point for this discussion, to show that you are not in the land of make-believe.

In which states?

Also, what do you mean by "primarily serve alcohol"?


Im from Washington. I have not carried anywhere else, so I dont know if it applies everywhere.

:) I knew someone would ask that. Cant carry into bars or where they make the majority of their profit from alchohol. In the casinos here, the entire gambling floor counts as "bar area" so its off limits to carry. I can go into the hotel side, but not the main gambling area. (IANAL so I might be wrong about the casinos, but I'm pretty sure Im right.)

Better make a law against weird people going into banks.
^*LOL* I'm a few steps from "Weird". I'm a long run from "criminal".

No I can't. So you win. But because I don't have proof it hasn't happened doesn't mean It can't. Like I said banks are about security or prevention of something. We prepare everyday, have pages of policy about thing that are unlikely to happen but we prepare.

I want My employees, customers to be safe in the bank I work in. If that means no guns to prevent the temptation or mistakes than so be it. Leave it in the car like the original story but think of others safety too. Good people that are desperate do bad things for money and banks are the easiest place to get money.

Good people that are desperate do bad things for money and banks are the easiest place to get money.
So making it illegal is going to stop this desperate person from committing a crime?

Come on, think it through, don't just buy the anti-gun lobby's rhetoric. A person isn't going to see the money and magically get desperate and decide to rob the bank. If they're going in with that intention, a law certainly isn't going to stop them.

Do you draw on him? You say no but in the stress you draw and put everyone at risk.

And how exactly are you supposedly putting everyone at risk by drawing your weapon? You seem to be under the impression that a gun is a danger itself. A gun never decided to shoot someone.

No I can't. So you win. But because I don't have proof it hasn't happened doesn't mean It can't. Like I said banks are about security or prevention of something. We prepare everyday, have pages of policy about thing that are unlikely to happen but we prepare.

I want My employees, customers to be safe in the bank I work in. If that means no guns to prevent the temptation or mistakes than so be it. Leave it in the car like the original story but think of others safety too. Good people that are desperate do bad things for money and banks are the easiest place to get money.

Making laws and restricting people from activities because you are afraid that at some point some person just might do something bad is beyond ridiculous.

So making it illegal is going to stop this desperate person from committing a crime?

Come on, think it through, don't just buy the anti-gun lobby's rhetoric. A person isn't going to see the money and magically get desperate and decide to rob the bank. If they're going in with that intention, a law certainly isn't going to stop them.


You are of course correct.

I think a lot of the anti gunners aren't spouting rhetoric when something like this comes up, I think they are projecting their own feelings about what THEY might do onto others.

Like I said banks are about security or prevention of something.

I want My employees, customers to be safe in the bank I work in.

How am I safer, with my thousands of dollars in cash I just withdrew in front of the entire lobby in my pocket, when I go back to my car and I am no longer armed?

What do you have in place to protect me while I am in your bank?? Who protects me from the armed robber??

Good people that are desperate do bad things for money and banks are the easiest place to get money.

So advertising that your customers have money and are unarmed will fix this problem? There are few places I WONT go without a gun, a bank is one of them.

(I think this applies to the bank as well)
"Dont go to parties with metal detectors. Sure its safe on the inside, But what about all those (guys) waitin outside with guns? THEY KNOW YOU DONT GOT ONE!" -Chris Rock

This is pointless. I have offended a few of you and I am sorry.

Let me make this clear. I love guns. I have a safe Full of them like most of you. I am not a radical 2nd amendment supporter. If they want me to register my guns, fine i'll obey the law and do it if I get to keep my guns. If I have to wait 3 days instead of take that glock 23 home today die, why does anyone need a gun ?

The belief that the government is out to unarm us all and the country is going to turn into a socialist country is as far fetched to me as the " desperate. Citizen" scenario is to you.

Since I'm pissing you guys off I'm done and I won't be posting here anymore so as not to cause a stir. Only topics like " best shotshell powder, red dot or 700x" from now on

This is pointless. I have offended a few of you and I am sorry.

Let me make this clear. I love guns. I have a safe Full of them like most of you. I am not a radical 2nd amendment supporter. If they want me to register my guns, fine i'll obey the law and do it if I get to keep my guns. If I have to wait 3 days instead of take that glock 23 home today die, why does anyone need a gun ?

The belief that the government is out to unarm us all and the country is going to turn into a socialist country is as far fetched to me as the " desperate. Citizen" scenario is to you.

Since I'm pissing you guys off I'm done and I won't be posting here anymore so as not to cause a stir. Only topics like " best shotshell powder, red dot or 700x" from now on

So answering our questions or providing evidence to support your position is not a possibility?

What state did this happen in? I imagine that if it was a state where the signs mean nothing, the bank is going to get sued real quick.

Shaky ground even for states that signs do carry the weight of law.


Wait a second. What now?
You mean in "some" states, even if a "no guns" sign is posted, it isn't legal?
I'm confused. Never heard that one before.

EDIT:
Never mind. My state says the signs "do" carry the force of the lsw "if" they are approved signs by the state.

Most common metal detectors do not go down to floor-level. That's why they don't trigger for steel-toed shoes.

I forsee these as a passing fad once local law enforcement starts charging for responding to the false alarms

This is the first time I've ever heard of these systems being used in this manner. But, I have an immediate family member who does real estate project management for a competing (major) bank. We've talked about the "man traps" in the past, and the units that my relative installs are about $100,000 each. As such, they're only used in branches that are in high-risk areas, where lots of robberies have occurred.

Also, they only use them as a means of catching the robber. Basically, only one of the two doors can be opened at a time. So, if someone robs the bank, the teller pushes a button. The perp runs through the first of the double doors, and then gets locked between the two doors while waiting for the arrival of the police. The unit is constructed of BR glass, so the perp won't have much luck threatening anyone as a means of escape.

I really don't like the concept of trapping a customer who hasn't broken any law. Doing so does sound like it would be illegal in many areas.


Wait a second. What now?
You mean in "some" states, even if a "no guns" sign is posted, it isn't legal?
I'm confused. Never heard that one before.

Pretty much. Here in Colorado there is no provision in the concealed carry law for "posting" an establishment as a gun free zone. As such, even if a sign is up prohibiting guns, you won't get in trouble for carrying a gun into the building (exceptions include the normally prohibited places like schools, federal buildings, etc. And, an exception also exists for places that have permanently installed weapons screening setups). But, short of those exceptions, if you carry a gun into a building that is posted "no guns" here in Colorado, all they can really do is ask you to leave (then, if you don't leave, you'd be trespassing).

Do you know of false alarms due to shoes happening at a location like this?

Any links or references?

I ask because I have real life experience with a metal detector meant to detect firearms and the like and I don't recall it going off for steel toe shoes, or even full size pocket knives, but it sure did go off for guns. You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.
Metal detectors where I work will be set off by the metal parts in a standard Bic ballpoint pen. The kind with the plastic tubing. Only metal in it is the ballpoint itself. Not even a spring. I also know firsthand that they'll be set off by boots with metal in them, whether they're steel-toe, or if its just the steel bar in many heavy boot soles.

I'd be surprised if steel-toe boots wouldn't set off a detector at the bank in this thread. Wouldn't be much of a security system if it didn't detect around the leg area.

Why are people so scared of the sight of a gun? If I pull out a book of matches, do they automatically think I am going to light people on fire? If I have a extension cord, do they think I am going to strangle them? If I go get in my car, do they fear I will run them over? No? Then why on God's green earth would I just out of the blue decide to start shooting people just because I have a gun? I'm not going to see a pile of money and suddenly "snap" and pull a gun to rob the place. If I wanted a pile of money badly enough, I'll figure out how to earn it. I'm not going to take someone else's.

I'm of the opinion that lawyers and lawsuits are a part of the ruination of this country, but I would consider suing the bank if they violated my rights in this manner.

is this something local LE would know about? half of those guys dont know what open carry is. how do i find out if this applies to my state?

Buggley, Really, half of all Cops don't know what open carry is?. I guess you being so educated on LEO's you can prove that, However, You have to ask how to find out if this applys to your state ? :rolleyes:

Next time ... bring a broadsword!

Next time ... bring a broadsword!


LOL......

And here I've been all this time wondering what the hell to do with this thing?
All along......I could have been BANKING.....:D



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v648/Swampdragon/252648a2.jpg

You might be surprised how finely tuned a metal detector can be.I would be very surprised that a magnetometer sensitive enough to go off because of one magazine would not go off with other similar sized, similar metal objects.

There are only a few ways to search you "for guns". The presumption that this is a magnetometer is a good one. Compare the amount of ferromagnetic metal in a single magazine--maybe a Glock magazine? ;)--with the amount of same in (say) a wiz-bang "unobtainium" revolver--or in a good sized knife. Or in a Beretta Jefire, for that matter. And let's not mention this:

http://heizerfirearms.com/images/HeroNOBG20111226.gif

Maybe Heizer should change the name of their Double-Tap to "The Bank Guard." If such bank devices become standard here (they are in Europe), my guess is Heizer is going to have to open another plant!

Add to that: most banks these days seem to be robbed using...a piece of paper, sunglasses, and a baseball cap. The piece of paper says, "Give me the money or I'll...." Often the threat of a bomb. The baseball cap and sunglasses to hide identity. The tellers are told to comply (often with exploading dye-packs in the money). When are the piece-of-paper detecting (or bomb-detecting) machines coming?

At least the bank is honest: this is NOT a robbery-prevention system. It is a disarm-our-legally-carrying-customers system. Patrons who enjoy being disarmed, and being in the company of others who are disarmed, should use this bank. Everyone else should close their account, and let both the branch manager and distant corporate know why.

Alternatively, yes: start setting off the device with every non-weapon you can. I'd say five such call per day for two weeks should have them ripping out their hair, and the "weapon control system." But be aware that such intentional disruption of business, even if done as civil disobedience for your fundamental RKBA, would carry penalties.

Yep.
I'd close my account and never look back.
Screw 'em.
There are plenty of other banks out there equally willing to "take" my money.
lol....

Someone mentioned claustrophobia i think as a joke.

I am claustrophobic, IF they locked me in like that, i would of seriously freaked out and bashed down a door/window or broken bones trying.

Second i would LOVE to of been the one this happened to, i would sue the piss out of them. I hate the sue happy mentality of this country today but some not only deserve it but its the only way to teach them what they can not do to legal citizens that aren't going to bend over for them.

Third and probably the best plan of attack, Fire Marshall.... I personally don't see how they could get away with such a thing. IF both doors are in fact locked [Exit and Entrance] then i would take that to the highest official in charge of that matter.

I just think the only way to really win is to use more powerful laws against them like Fire Safety.

oh how i wish this happened to me :)

Isn't money made out of metal?

Isn't money made out of metal?

There is TINY TINY amounts of metals in the ink but i highly doubt a metal detector would sense it unless it was a large sum of money.

:) I knew someone would ask that. Cant carry into bars or where they make the majority of their profit from alchohol. In the casinos here, the entire gambling floor counts as "bar area" so its off limits to carry.
I don't know WA CCW law but I wonder about your statement. If the law is you can't carry in places that serve alcohol, period, then casinos are indeed illegal as they do serve. If the law is you can't carry in a place that makes the majority of its profits from alcohol I would say you can carry, as there no way any casino makes the *majority* of its profits from the bar. ;)

Of course there may be other reasons why carry may be illegal in a casino in your state and at the very least I would expect any casino to ask you to leave if they discovered you were carrying.

Who would have thought.

If the law is you can't carry in places that serve alcohol, period, then casinos are indeed illegal as they do serve. If the law is you can't carry in a place that makes the majority of its profits from alcohol I would say you can carry...
The bars are off limits. You can go into a resteraunt and order a drink, no problem. Cant wander to the other side of the wall that is "bar", thats illegal.
... as there no way any casino makes the *majority* of its profits from the bar.
Any profits they earn from me come from the booze! :evil:
That may be part of why I think the casinos are off limits. When I go there, I usually end up drunk, so I leave my gun behind.:cool:
Of course there may be other reasons why carry may be illegal in a casino in your state and at the very least I would expect any casino to ask you to leave if they discovered you were carrying.
The casinos I frequent are on Tribal land, I tend to err on the side of caution. I definately agree with the last part of your post.

Any fellow Washingtonians (Navy?) have better info about the casinos?

There is TINY TINY amounts of metals in the ink but i highly doubt a metal detector would sense it unless it was a large sum of money.


Y'know, not all money is paper. If my bank had one of these, I think I might start needing to take them large amounts of change for deposit on a regular basis. Rolls of quarters. Bagfuls of mixed coins.

I also think I'd start carrying in cash deposits in a small metal lockbox. And carrying in an empty metal lockbox to use for cash withdrawals.

And I'm pretty sure a good business accessory for my banking business would be a snazzy metal attache case.

A metal clipboard, one of those box-style ones, would also be useful to me.

I wonder how many instances of detaining me it would take before my lawyer and I would become bank owners?

(Not real great at searching the RCW, but here is what I found)

http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.300

RCW 9.41.300 - 1d

(d) That portion of an establishment classified by the state liquor control board as off-limits to persons under twenty-one years of age

I'm not sure what the min age to enter the casino is.
18? CC ok
21? CC not ok

EDIT: Dont want to hijack this thread with this tangent. Sorry all. No more about that.

Don`t ever go to the bank...........

According to the original thread, he was not supposed to have been detained, but apparently the teller didn't know that. If my bank were to install something like this, then I would expect them to provide armed security for myself and my money and provide a way to keep my firearm secure the entire time I was seperated from it. Unlike wolfie, I believe guns and money mix just fine. Especially when it happens to be my gun protecting my life from someone who wishes to end it while acquiring my money,

That may be part of why I think the casinos are off limits. When I go there, I usually end up drunk, so I leave my gun behind.
Certainly the responsible thing to do, whether you are at a casino, a bar, or your friend's kitchen table.

The casinos I frequent are on Tribal land, I tend to err on the side of caution.
Yikes! Well, all bets are off, then. Tribal land is often quite litterally a law unto itself and non-tribe memebers crossing the line can find themselves in big trouble, really fast. Your idea of caution is probably the best course, there.

Interesting situation, but not much about the law in this discussion. :)