[gunnutery]

So I've been wondering about these sights mounted to pistols and questioning whether or not they're practical or just another way to throw money at something.

My questioning is more on the "tactical" or law enforcement side rather than competition. If one were to have mounted one of these on a HD/SD/Duty pistol, and needed to draw down in a hurry, how does activating the sight come into play? Does it turn on automatically, or do you still have to flip a switch?

I read an artical lately about how it could become very common in LE in the future, but I have my doubts.

The pic below seems to be a sensible way to mount it so you can at least have iron sights as well, but I've seen some without the co-witness.

Thoughts?

http://www.tactical-life.com/online/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/8.jpg

[WC145]

I have two mini red dot equipped pistols, a FNP-45 Tactical and a FNS-9. I think they will become very popular if the cost comes down, the main reason being that shooting becomes target focused. Having a clear view of your target at all times and not having to transition through different focal planes where your target is out of focus while you concentrate on the front sight is a huge advantage. This can also eliminate issues with corrective lenses and conventional iron sights. My progressive bifocals make finding the "sweet spot" where the front sight is in focus difficult, I have to tip my head up to do it. With the red dot I look at the target as I normally would and superimpose the dot on the target, both are in perfect focus.

Quality mini red dots like the Trijicon RMR are very lightweight and very rugged, and not as obtrusive as one would think. I just switched my duty pistol from a Springfield 1911 to a RMR equipped FNP-45 Tactical. It gives me the same advantages as the red dot on my patrol rifle, including cowitnessed iron sights, and I now have one type of sighting system for both platforms. When I transition from rifle to pistol or vice versa I'm looking at basically the same sight picture - put the dot on the target and fire. The dot also extends the useful range of a hand gun, allowing much more accurate shooting at longer distances.

My questioning is more on the "tactical" or law enforcement side rather than competition. If one were to have mounted one of these on a HD/SD/Duty pistol, and needed to draw down in a hurry, how does activating the sight come into play? Does it turn on automatically, or do you still have to flip a switch?

In the case of the RMR02 that I have on my guns, the dot is on all the time and battery life is about 2 years, I'll be changing mine at annual quals. It has a photo sensor that automatically changes the intensity of the dot depending how much light is in front of you.

Go here for a bunch of info on red dot equipped pistols for self defense - http://www.warriortalk.com/forumdisplay.php?205-Red-Dot-Combat-Pistols


These are my guns, I'm waiting on a set of tall suppressor sights for the FNS-9.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-mnHJwA9zAiI/T5W4xdH-b_I/AAAAAAAAEQg/ItRt5ubTAEw/s576/SDC12006.JPG

[tuj]

Consider that virtually all of our soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq have been using red dot or holographic sights on their rifles. I think its only a matter of time before the technology gets small enough to make high-quality, motion-activated, long-battery-life optics for pistols.

There shouldn't be a question; using a dot is better than iron sights. Otherwise the top bullseye guys wouldn't all be using tube red dots.

[gunnutery]

Thanks for the input WC. I didn't realize that the red dot stays on full time. That's much more appealing then since you don't have to mess with it. I may look into that in the future when I have a little more freedom with finances. It was good to get the perpective from someone else in LE as well.

[Canuck-IL]

using a dot is better than iron sights. Otherwise the top bullseye guys wouldn't all be using tube red dots.

IMNSHO, BE shooters were forced to red dots due to the average age of those on the line rendering iron sights pretty much a non-starter. The standard advice still applies ... if you can see them adequately, shoot irons - you'll improve more, and more rapidly, since you can clearly see the failures to maintain sight alignment thru the trigger pull.

Sadly, I shoot BE regularly and have been relegated to a dot except when I stubbornly persist in shooting EIC or DR matches that require irons.
/Bryan

[Skribs]

As to battery life, it depends on the sight. I believe the popular ones for pistols are the Trijicon RMR and the Burris Fastfire, both which should have a battery life well over a year (which means if you change it every year, you're good).

With long guns, the Trijicon Reflex is tritium-powered (15 years), the Aimpoint Comp series is measured in 10K hours of operation (i.e. 50K hours, or 5 years+), and the EoTech sights are measured in hundreds of hours.

The advantage of a red dot is target aquisition. You don't have to *exactly* line up in order to hit what you're aiming at.

[gunnutery]

Thanks for all the input. Like I said, I don't have the capital to get into that sighting system anytime soon, but you guys have helped me get around some of the questions I had. Who knows, maybe by the time I can afford one, they'll be cheaper :)

[plouffedaddy]

http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l178/tiffani33/Guns/IMAG0571.jpg

I have the Optima on mine (forerunner of the J Point) and I love it. I've had the battery installed for 18 months and it's still bright and crisp. It co-witnesses perfectly with the factory sights so no issues there.

My dad, who probably shoots a total of 1 mag out of his HD gun every year ('just to see if it works' he says) fired my FNP and said 'It's like cheating.' I'd have to agree. ...and in a gunfight, I'll cheat every time! :D

[gunnutery]

I notice the tall sights on the FNP-45's. I know that's mainly for sighting over the addition of a suppressor, but is it nessessary to co-witness with the RMR-type sight or will standard height sights work as well?

[WC145]

You need the tall sights to clear the body of the optic so you can see them through the window, regular height sights are too short. If you follow the link in my earlier post you will find links to TSD and One Source Tactical on the forum pages, you'll find a lot of info there. Also, if you go to David Bowie's site you'll find good info there, too. He likes the Leupold Deltapoint mini red dot.

[IMTHDUKE]

Will the RMR sights mount on any other pistols....like an HK?

[plouffedaddy]

Yes. Companies make mounts for the RMR that slide in the rear dovetail of a lot of popular handguns. Also, most gunsmiths can just machine your slide for the RMR if you'd like.

[IMTHDUKE]

Any links to companies that do that? I look at Trijicom site and they are not detailed on what guns those mount fit.

[Girodin]

Any links to companies that do that?

http://www.bowietacticalconcepts.com/

[gunnutery]

Wow, Bowie seems kind of steep on the milling process. I couldn't tell you if that's a standard price ($175) but it seems steep to me considering how little they're taking off.

[Skribs]

Wow, Bowie seems kind of steep on the milling process. I couldn't tell you if that's a standard price ($175) but it seems steep to me considering how little they're taking off.

This is a computer story, but I'll relate it. A company has a mainframe go down. The local admins cannot figure out what to do, so they call in a specialist. The specialist grabs a piece of chalk, looks through several circuit boards, and marks one with the chalk. He says to replace that board and everything will work, and gives the company a $5000 bill. The company is adamant that he itemize the bill for their records. He complies: Piece of chalk, $0.50. Knowing where to put the mark: $4999.50.

They may only be taking a little off, but they know which little to take off.

[JN01]

Mark Housel is a little cheaper and does OUTSTANDING work. http://www.landmprecisiongunworks.com/documents/PistolWork.pdf

[Skribs]

Anyone have any comments as to the quality of a milled slide vs. having the dovetail plate installed? I'm looking at getting a red dot pistol for myself some point in the next couple years, and am wondering if it is worth the extra $150-250 (depending on how I got it done) to have it milled.

[plouffedaddy]

The advantage of having it milled is that you can still use your rear sights in the event that the red dot craps out/battery dies (depending on the optic). If you're using the rear sight mount then you just have a front sight in that event. Still usable but....

[Skribs]

I was looking at the link JN provided, and I wonder - how much of the pistol can I ship without it legally being a pistol? i.e. just the slide, or if I ship the slide, barrel, and guide rod (without the frame) can I avoid the "firearm" fees that shippers like to tack on?

[Jesse 8]

I'm pretty sure they should only need your slide. But I've been wrong before. Best call and ask

[plouffedaddy]

The frame is considered a pistol. So you can send them the whole upper assembly if you want, but they should only need the frame.

[Skribs]

Jesse, only slide to set it up, slide/barrel/guide rod to boresight it for you.

[gunnutery]

Skribs, I enjoyed your story :)

[Jesse 8]

Yeah sorry...downloaded the pdf. Didn't read it. Most my 'experience' with RDSs on pistols revolves around TSD Combat systems version. From what I've gathered about them, you can buy packages, or send in your Glock side. I know nothing about sighting the things in. Hopefully that will change in the next 5 or so years tho

[Girodin]

The TSD package is just a late to the party copy of what others have been doing for a long time, which is typical Suarez.

What else is typical Suarez is that he has an RMR on his website for sale that anyone who knows how to use google can find for about $200 less in about two seconds.

His TSD package is not the route I would go if I wanted a red dot sight equipped gun. As usual Suarez is charging more for what you can easily find elsewhere (and from people who have been doing it a lot longer). Oh, and as a matter of policy I try to avoid doing business with, unrepentant, convicted thieves.

[Slimbo]

I had a JPoint on a 1911 that I enjoyed, I did the dovetailed plate instead of having the slide machined as I installed it myself and wanted to be able to switch back to irons if I so desired without having a chunk of my slide MIA. I need to dig it out and buy something to stick it on.

I never had any issues with it walking around with the JP mount I had, it had two set screws that went through the dovetail and made contact with the slide. A little loctite and it was good to go. JP builds quality parts, wouldn't hesitate using any of the products they manufacture.