Stupid Question of the Day: .22 pellets out of a rifle


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MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 01:26 AM
i'm not too sure where to ask this question, so... sorry if it's in the wrong place.

so here's my stupid question:
would it be a terrible idea to shoot .22 airgun pellets through a .22 rifle (NOT an airgun, a real .22lr rifle) using .22 ramsets to propel them?

here's a little more info:
i've shot the ramsets out of the rifle to scare away birds and cats, so i know they'll work. they're a little dirty but not much dirtier than cheap old bulk remington ammo. they're essentially .22lr blanks as far as i can tell.
the rifle is an old, single shot (savage?) that's pretty worthless and beat up (ugly, rusty) but safe to shoot and shoots ok but not good or great... in other words: i don't mind if it gets hurt, so long as i don't get hurt.

why do i want to do this?:
curiosity mostly. that and i want to see how accurate and flat the ammo shoots compared to regular bulk ammo. i imagine that if this works like it does in my head, those pellets will come screaming out of the muzzle. :cool:

well, there it is. be gentle, it's my first time! :o

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Certaindeaf
May 25, 2012, 01:37 AM
I'd be prepared for them to strip in the rifling.. they're generally pure lead.
I think they make some lighter and harder ones though.. they're around 3-4 times more expensive though.
Let us know how it goes.

Shadow 7D
May 25, 2012, 01:42 AM
yeah, and .22 bullets are about 30-40 grain, and pellets are 15?? for the heavy expensive ones.

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 01:53 AM
^ yes, 15 grain +/-.

i'm sorry, i'm missing the point of your post. why would that matter?

jmorris
May 25, 2012, 02:05 AM
I did this a long time ago with an old tin of starter pistol blanks and regular pellets. Out of a savage 24, they were silent and had about the same power as a Benjamin air rifle at 10 pumps.

After that tin was used up I tried every blank I could get and none of them worked. You can forget about nail gun blanks, unless you want a really ineffective (molten) shotgun.

If you happen to find any that work be sure to post about them. IIRC the ones I had were in a red top tin and made in Czechoslovakia, sold in an army navy store in the late 70's-early 80's.

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 02:12 AM
found this while searching:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5292349&postcount=16

"But you quickly will reach a velocity where it will blow the center out an air rifle pellet and stick it in the bore, or lead the barrel badly.

I ran into that problem firing pellets with ramset blanks out of a .22lr, but isn't that why the good lord invented cylindrical and heavy-weight pellets? There are pellets weighing up to mid-30 grainers."

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 02:31 AM
uhoh!!!

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Rabbit_Magnum_II_22_Cal_24_69_Grains_Cylindrical_with_Round_Nose_Solid_200ct/783

24.69 grains :eek: these might work... but i don't think i'm motivated enough to try them out.

165018

Swampman
May 25, 2012, 02:49 AM
I've never tried to propel .22 pellets with a blank, but they work reasonably well when "glued" with Lee Liquid Alox into a resized and primed (with a CCI standard SPP) but otherwise empty .223 case.

This is just my opinion, but I think most .22 blanks would probably blow the skirt right off the pellet while still in the bore, if that doesn't happen, the skirt will probably come apart in the air soon after leaving the muzzle due to the heat from firing and the rotational stresses of its spin.

Despite all that, I'd still say to give it a try! Just be sure to clean your bore and lube the pellet well, check your bore for obstructions after each shot and please, secure the weapon into a stable rest of some sort and touch off the first few rounds with a long string so as to keep you well out of harms way if something should go drastically wrong. Mind you, I don't think it will, but better safe than sorry.
Let us know how it goes!

OR, you could just buy some Super Colibris at around 3 bucks a box...

Swampman

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 02:55 AM
^yeah, good advice. i'm seeing now how those dainty pellets would likely melt. i've got the colibri's, i'm not trying to shoot quietly (i have a can for that), i'm looking to shoot straight and FAST... and satisfy my morbid curiosity.

Swampman
May 25, 2012, 08:26 AM
I wouldn't call it morbid, just healthy curiosity, if you really want to try it, why not put a tiny pinch of PuffLon or Dacron fiber or even a tiny but fairly thick wad (you could cut some out of stiff gasket material with a fired .22 casing, just drill a hole so you can push the wads out with some wire) between the blank and pellet? As long as you truly consider the rifle expendable and follow proper safety procedures (REMEMBER THE LONG STRING), I really don't think there's much chance for disaster.
I also don't think there's much chance for success but ENQUIRING MINDS WANT TO KNOW!
If you DO decide to do this and want to chrono the velocities, make sure you protect any downrange portions of your chronograph appropriately.
Yes, unfortunately I AM speaking from experience, not with pellets, but with sabots.

I too was once a velocity junkie...

But I'm REFORMED now, I mean LOTS of perfectly NORMAL people probably melt the lead out of .257 bullets and replace it with pewter.

I wonder...how does the melting point of aluminum compare to that of gilding metal...?

i can quit anytime i want...

I SAID, I CAN QUIT ANYTIME I WANT!!!

Have fun, learn, stay safe,
Swampman

GooseGestapo
May 25, 2012, 09:08 AM
Years back, while a poor, bored college student I shot air-rifle pellets from my T/C Contender .22Hornet using just primers to power it. It was decently accurate and effective on pigeons to ~75'.

A "set cartridge" will over-power the pellet as others have mentioned. (If you do try it, use the lowest powered cartridge available).
Many years ago, I also tried starter blanks to do the same thing. It "worked", but was not accurate or efficient. (.22 ammo is MUCH cheaper).
I think you'll find that the set-charges are MUCH-MUCH more expensive than regular ammo.

j1
May 25, 2012, 09:37 AM
In a related vein Aguila Colibri makes ammo which shoots a pellet weighing 20 grains using priming compound only but it is made for use from handguns only. They said that it might stick in the barrel of a rifle so I tried it and it did stick. If not mistaken they make a Super Colibri which is made to shoot in rifles. I do not know if this would be interesting to you or not . I still have about half a box left. There is no price tag on the box.

JLDickmon
May 25, 2012, 09:55 AM
why don't you just get some CB caps?

Swampman
May 25, 2012, 10:35 AM
OP said he's interested in shooting straight and FAST, not quiet.
Anybody got a spare .220 Swift or .22 Cheetah they can donate to his cause? :D
Swampman

Swampman
May 25, 2012, 10:48 AM
j1,
Unless you've got a really long barrel or a pretty rough bore you can probably clean the barrel well, lube it with silicone spray and shoot the regular Colibris with no problem. Just remember, if you don't see a hole appear in your target with each shot, check for an obstructed bore before you shoot again. Also you'll need to reclean and lube the bore on a fairly regular basis while shooting, the priming compound without powder seems to mess up the bore worse than most regular ammo for some reason.
Swampman

jmorris
May 25, 2012, 11:50 AM
i'm looking to shoot straight and FAST... and satisfy my morbid curiosity Oh, you can pretty much forget the project. The 100 or so blanks I had that actually worked without destroying the pellets were no faster than the air rifles I had just made no noise. They didn't tumble like the 60 grain Aguila ammo though.

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 03:31 PM
In a related vein Aguila Colibri makes ammo which shoots a pellet weighing 20 grains using priming compound only but it is made for use from handguns only. They said that it might stick in the barrel of a rifle so I tried it and it did stick. If not mistaken they make a Super Colibri which is made to shoot in rifles. I do not know if this would be interesting to you or not . I still have about half a box left. There is no price tag on the box.
thanks for the offer! but yeah, like i said i have those and shooting quiet wasn't the goal, but thank you anyway.

gamestalker
May 25, 2012, 03:44 PM
Almost 50 yrs. ago I used to pull the bullets from 22 shorts, I started out using a primed only cartridge. That worked pretty well, so I started adding very, very small increments of the original powder, and used a piece of construction paper and a paper hole punch to get them round so I could stuff them in as a base wad over the tiny powder charge. I then seated the pellet backwards in the case after having blown the center out of the first couple. You'll never need more than a few powder flakes to get that pellet moving well. Accuracy was aweful, and velocity was unknown as I didn't have a chrono in those early shooting years. No need to use the 22LR or 22 longs, those have way too much case volume to try and work with for something as light and small as a pellet.

GS

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 03:50 PM
Oh, you can pretty much forget the project. The 100 or so blanks I had that actually worked without destroying the pellets were no faster than the air rifles I had just made no noise. They didn't tumble like the 60 grain Aguila ammo though.
the ramsets are VERY powerful. if i had to guess, the light loads (they come in different strengths) might have more powder than a standard .22lr round. they are damn loud too!

anyways, i tried it :D and as predicted, it didn't work well. it made a little bb sized raggedy hole in a cardboard box about 10' away and filthed the barrel up good. it was also VERY loud. i couldn't tell you how fast it was and i didn't do any accuracy tests... so that's that. i'd try it again if i had those heavier pellets laying around but i'm not about to place an order just to find out if it works.

i guess i'll stick with these:
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/medium/218/218194.jpg
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2506218194/aguila-super-maximum-ammunition-22-long-rifle-30-grain-hyper-velocity-plated-lead-hollow-point

MajorBison
May 25, 2012, 03:54 PM
Almost 50 yrs. ago I used to pull the bullets from 22 shorts, I started out using a primed only cartridge. That worked pretty well, so I started adding very, very small increments of the original powder, and used a piece of construction paper and a paper hole punch to get them round so I could stuff them in as a base wad over the tiny powder charge. I then seated the pellet backwards in the case after having blown the center out of the first couple. You'll never need more than a few powder flakes to get that pellet moving well. Accuracy was aweful, and velocity was unknown as I didn't have a chrono in those early shooting years. No need to use the 22LR or 22 longs, those have way too much case volume to try and work with for something as light and small as a pellet.

GS
i tried the primer only too (pulled the bullet, dumped the powder, loaded a pellet)... didn't budge the pellet at all... well it pushed it about an inch into the rifle. remington bulk ammo, i tried that 1st.

Mickey Rat
June 6, 2012, 03:43 AM
Lots of trouble to reinvent the wheel.
Aguila Colibre 300 fps very quiet 20 gr bullet
Super Colibre 550 fps quiet 20 gr bullet
CCI CB Caps short or long 750 fps air rilfe loud
CCI Quiet 850 fps LR 40 gr
Tale the easy way.

jmorris
June 6, 2012, 11:24 AM
the ramsets are VERY powerful. if i had to guess, the light loads (they come in different strengths) might have more powder than a standard .22lr round. . Well heck yes they are. They are designed to drive a nail through wood and into concrete. If you want super fast maybe you should turn down some brass rod and make "solids" using the nailgun blanks. I would certainly use the string method a poster suggested above though...I take that back, I would just get any number of the centerfire .22's made and call it a day.

MajorBison
June 6, 2012, 01:03 PM
Lots of trouble to reinvent the wheel.
Aguila Colibre 300 fps very quiet 20 gr bullet
Super Colibre 550 fps quiet 20 gr bullet
CCI CB Caps short or long 750 fps air rilfe loud
CCI Quiet 850 fps LR 40 gr
Tale the easy way.
re-read the thread... or i should probably say: read it for the first time.


. Well heck yes they are. They are designed to drive a nail through wood and into concrete. If you want super fast maybe you should turn down some brass rod and make "solids" using the nailgun blanks. I would certainly use the string method a poster suggested above though...I take that back, I would just get any number of the centerfire .22's made and call it a day.
yeah, this project was aborted. the aguila's do exactly what i was trying to do.

i'm not looking for a new gun, just trying to get the most out of what i have.

41 Mag
June 7, 2012, 06:52 AM
Well in line with your idea, here was my trial test of the mentioned.


I have a 14" Contender barrel chambered in .223 AI. After having kneee surgery I was sitting here listening as the local "pet" squirrels ran back and forth across my ceiling. I don't consider them "pet's" as the neighbors do so I made plans to do them in.

I found that when sized down but not expanded the .22 cal pellets would just fit in the nose of the case,
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f285/41nag/Shooting/P1010018.jpg

If seated just even with the lip I could add the smallest amount of super glue to hold them secure. I started with just a standard primer, and that didn't do much, so bumped up to the magnum and had similar results. Then I took 4 cases and drilled out the primer hole just a tad, and went through the process once more. Still not much, but noticeably better. Then I went a step further and started to trickly 2-3 individual pieces of Unique, ( fastest I have on hand) down into the cases. With about 5 pieces of Unique coupled with the drilled out holes and magnum primers I was good to go.

I took out I guess the leader of the pack first, fortunately for me as it was a real pain, (literally), to get back in the back of my attic with the bum knee. It didn't however drop it on the spot, but when it fell outside through the ventilation screen the dog made quick work of it.

To be honest, had I not been sitting here with nothing else better to do and bored out of my skull, I would hav probably never thought about it. Since then I have purchased several packs of the .22 rat shot rounds and will probably not go back to the pellets again.

So I guess you could say it CAN be done, but there are other things which suit the purpose MUCH better.

Xaibernetics
January 30, 2014, 01:04 AM
A few years back I was plinking with my .22 pellet gun and my .22 rifle. Decided to try something new and I have found that the 16.7gr Lead Free Alloy .22 Pellets called, "Crosman Powershot Red Flight Penetrators" performed very well if you are trying to push it down your .22 rifle barrel a Ramset Powdered rounds. I have tried it with Ramset Power level 1, 2, 3, and 4, on a .22 single shot Rossi, but refuse to go to power level 5.

Very powerful. Ramset Power level 4 powdered rounds will push this 16.7g pellet easily through a hard piece of 4 inch oak without much damage to even the plastic fins on the pellet. No high powered .22lr round could do that.

I have not tried lead pellets because I figured they would ball up, fall apart, or wad up inside the barrel when traveling at such high velocity.

gamestalker
January 30, 2014, 02:18 AM
Post #3,

Why does 15 grs. matter?

When dealing with the ratio of projectile weight to powder charge weight, a 15.0 gr. projectile weight difference factors in with great importance. However, since there is no way to know what kind of powder is in those blanks, everything is a complete trial and error operation.

With that said, you could very possible blow a case head, or worse. I blew up a bolt action 22 rifle once. Nothing I did, well actually I was shooting stingers out of it, and the owner manual clearly stated not to use hyper velocity ammunition, so. make sure you wear protective gear, you might need it, hope not.

GS

jmorris
January 30, 2014, 09:27 AM
Gamestalker, he hasn't logged on in two months and the thread is 2 years old.

MajorBison
February 4, 2014, 12:39 AM
back from the dead!!!

i have a new experiment: .22 jet bullets!!! i always wanted a truly-jacketed .22lr :evil:
these are .222 (NOT .223 or .224) so they should go down the barrel of the lr. i'm guessing that it might strip the rifling and worst case scenario, i get a kaboom. definitely using a string for this one.

wish me luck...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/599887/hornady-bullets-22-jet-222-diameter-40-grain-jacketed-flat-nose-box-of-100
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/599/599887.jpg

PJSprog
February 4, 2014, 03:49 PM
You guys are crazy.
:what::eek::uhoh:

LightningMan
February 5, 2014, 12:20 AM
I tried something similar, I took a .22 cal pellet dropped in into the barrel of my Ruger MKIII then took a .22 LR round without the bullet or powder (just the priming compound, as I pulled the bullet & dumped the powder) dropped in behind the pellet closed the chamber & fired. It just seemed like I fired a pellet pistol and a rather weak one at that. LM

GaryL
February 5, 2014, 12:52 AM
This may or may not apply to ramsets...

Just yesterday I was talking to one of our manufacturing managers, who had worked as an engineer at a major ammo company (something I didn't know before yesterday). We talked about the different ammo lines he worked on, and 22 was one of them. I asked what the biggest challenge was, and he said making sure they never had a double charge in 22 LR. I asked what sort of problems that would cause (I'm curious, and if someone has first hand knowledge...), he stated that there are some blow back designs that can't handle the pressure and parts will break. But he said even if gun parts don't break, case separation and brass shrapnel are almost guaranteed.

So, just more info and a suggestion to tread lightly onto the thin ice. :)

LabattRED
October 17, 2014, 03:43 PM
back from the dead!!!

i have a new experiment: .22 jet bullets!!! i always wanted a truly-jacketed .22lr :evil:
these are .222 (NOT .223 or .224) so they should go down the barrel of the lr. i'm guessing that it might strip the rifling and worst case scenario, i get a kaboom. definitely using a string for this one.

wish me luck...

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/599887/hornady-bullets-22-jet-222-diameter-40-grain-jacketed-flat-nose-box-of-100
http://media.midwayusa.com/productimages/880x660/Primary/599/599887.jpg
Well what were the results? I'm really curious about how these turned out for you, especially after having recently seen the performance in this video:

http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2014/10/15/shooting-22-pellets-using-nail-gun-blanks/

jmorris
October 17, 2014, 04:21 PM
I find it hard to believe that a pellet went through 1/8" stainless.

Guess I'll have to stop by lowes tomorrow I have some of the same pellets already.

LabattRED
October 17, 2014, 04:51 PM
I have to agree with you skepticism, but I'm hoping to try it out in the near future. If you pick these up tomorrow, I'd be interested to hear about your findings as well.

gamestalker
October 18, 2014, 12:32 AM
Now you got my little brain ticking.

You know what might work, try filling the skirt with epoxy or JB Weld, JB would probably work better?But before you fill it, maybe expand the skirt slightly as well. That might reinforce the center and give it more to engrave, thus less blow by and gas cutting, maybe.

Just make sure you take safety precautions, especially eye protection, just in case something goes horribly wrong. Be pretty cool if you get some really good results, be sure to let us know.

GS

gamestalker
October 18, 2014, 12:39 AM
Jmorris, opps, I guess I missed the part about how old the thread was. Is it me though that's bring the topic back to the front page? I just saw it come up today, which is why I responded to it, yet again, so I don't think it's just me?

Oh well, I'm getting old and must have missed that little detail.

GS

jmorris
October 18, 2014, 03:02 PM
Well I tried out the #2,3 and 4 power ranges today in a 24" .22 rimfire barrel. The #4 disintegrated the pellet but it looked like the #3 and #2 were making round holes in paper at 15 yds or so, so I fired a few at a .112" thick (11ga) steel plate and the #3 was pretty close to making it through, the #2 made a significant dent as well and my RWS 34 left nothing except the lead smear.

Got out the chronograph and the #2 sent the 14.3 grain pellet out at 2067 fps. The #3 went 2141 fps. Will note that the #4 load separated the case on both shots fired and the #3 separated 2 of 5 but the #2 load seemed ok.

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv5/qvideo/IMG_20141018_123047_071_zps959ad9ff.jpg

LabattRED
October 20, 2014, 08:13 AM
Thanks for the detailed post. I'm rather impressed by your results, and glad to see some real chrono data finally.

I also tried this out over the weekend. However, my attempt was not as successful. I was using these pellets: http://cdn.pyramydair.com/images/Benjamin-BHP22.jpg
from an old Springfield single shot like this: http://picturearchive.gunauction.com/1691/8485070/a182e8a80777860d39958f39634ef941.jpg

I didn't think to take any pictures at the time. I loaded the first round, using the #3 power. No issues during loading, and it fired with a substantial sound. The issue arose shortly thereafter, as the skirt of the pellet remained in the barrel, but the body had gone down range. There was a tight ring of lead in a full circle around the barrel about 1/2" from the breech. It tapped right out with a cleaning rod, though.

I intend to give this another shot, but will try a more substantial projectile.

http://www.pyramydair.com/s/p/H_N_Rabbit_Magnum_II_22_Cal_24_69_Grains_Cylindrical_Solid_200ct/783

jmorris
October 20, 2014, 12:41 PM
You have to make sure the pellet is in the rifling if not you will rip the skirt off.

I used a break open .22 for mine. Be carefull messing with these, they say on the box not to use them in firearms.

Walkalong
October 20, 2014, 02:38 PM
You have to make sure the pellet is in the rifling if not you will rip the skirt off.Yep, y'all do please be careful. :)

LabattRED
October 20, 2014, 03:56 PM
Yep, y'all do please be careful. :)
I was trying to ensure that there wasn't an air pocket between the casing and the pellet. Are you saying that it should be in direct contact?

Kp321
October 20, 2014, 09:10 PM
Back in my misspent youth (early 1960's), there was a magazine article about velocities approaching 5000 fps with a 243 or 244 necked to 22 cal and using 15 gr sintered iron powder bullets from gallery loads. Accuracy was not mentioned but most of the bullets made it to the target. Funny, I can remember more of that article than what I read this morning!

Walkalong
October 20, 2014, 11:12 PM
I am just saying to be careful, as in making sure the skirt isn't still in the barrel, etc.

Any time one tries things like this they are in uncharted waters and need to be careful.

Safety in reloading, or trying things like this, is important to me.

It has been suggested that this thread is off topic and should not continue, but I chose instead to remind posters and readers to be careful.

So, have fun, be careful, be safe. :)

LabattRED
October 21, 2014, 08:17 AM
I didn't realize I'd incorrectly quoted the previous post. I hadn't intended to quote the "careful" statement. I was more curious about how one would ensure that there isn't an air pocket between the cartridge and projectile, while also verifying that the pellet was in the rifling. I would have expected that to be given, from a rifle that is chambered for .22 short, long, and long rifle.

In regards to being off topic, it seems we're still discussing the viability of the concept from the first post. However, that is your call to make. I'm new to the forum, but appreciative of the info contained in this thread.

I'm also interested in the model of break action rifle used in JMorris's test.

jmorris
October 21, 2014, 10:46 AM
I used one of my Savage 24's.

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