[goon]

I've generally been a fairly competent marksman but I'm having trouble getting a consistent sight picture with my AR-15. I'm using a Daniel Defense A1.5 rear sight with a standard front post. I'm pretty sure that my wandering groups are due to sighting errors because I'm getting a lot of vertical stringing.
I can't shoot comfortably with my nose at the charging handle because of how my glasses fit me. Any advice on how to make my sight picture more consistent and get my rounds all in the same place? I've used peep sights a lot before and have never really had a problem like this.

[68wj]

What style of shooting are you working on? Nose to charging handle is mainly combat (primarily CQB) related and not the only option. Vertical stringing is often an issue of breathing. Be sure that you are focusing on the front sight post and maintaining a consistent cheek weld.

[nipprdog]

******

[scythefwd]

I cheated.. I sighted my rifle in so that the dog ears would touch the ring, and be zero'd that way.. it'd screw up any and everyone else shooting my rifle.. but it was a very consistent picture for me

[goon]

Really, I'm just trying to get consistent groups on paper for zeroing. So far I've had a hard time getting groups any better than about 4" at 100 yards with this rifle and the iron sights. I know I can do better than that... I just can't figure out where I'm going wrong.

[IndianaBoy]

With stock iron AR-15 sights, it's important to use a target big enough to get a consistent sight picture. The standard front sight post is large enough to make shooting at something small like a bullseye, very difficult. After being frustrated with lots of different front sights, I finally made my own post-in-aperture front sight from one of those KNS front sight posts. Pulled out their too-thick crosshairs and soldered in a VERY skinny vertical post. For close in/fast shooting of large targets, I just need to find the target in the aperture. For long range, I use the vertical post.

I have found it is very important to have excellent contrast on your target when trying to shoot with precision with iron sights. I like bright white targets with black bullseyes. White targets work well also, if backed by foliage. Black target backers are problematic with iron sights because you may loose your sights in the backer if you use a six o'clock hold.

I have found vertical stringing with irons to be a problem of resolving the target well enough to have a perfectly repeatable sight picture. I still struggle with it on a small level. Precise sights help but there are trade offs.

Carbine length sights amplify sighting error. 4 inches at 100 yards is pretty typical with a course front sight post at 100 yards. I don't shoot my carbine for groups anymore, but I REALLY had to work to shoot anything respectable. If you are shooting at a target designed for zeroing scoped rifles, I'd be shocked if you shot a tiny group. How well can you resolve your bullseye with the naked eye at 100 yards? What targets are you using?

[rskent]

It sounds like you may be having issues with your glasses. If your head position in inconsistent you are looking through a different spot on your glasses for each shot.
Probably not the best plan for good groups. You might try canting the rifle a bit and pulling the butt stock a little higher in your shoulder pocket. It can help you get
a more upright head position. With that you will be looking through the center of your glasses, not the edge. Much better sight picture and much less eye strain.
Keep working at it, you will get it.
Steve

[chrome_austex]

what kind of position/support are you using? Your sight picture may be ok.

I like the suggestion of using a large enough target. Iron sights aren't easy to use for precision. The human eye has a nasty feature of only being able to focus on one thing at at time, so keeping the target and front post in focus at the same time is impossible w/o special pin-point peep sights. Just make sure you're focusing on the front sight post and not the target. Keep the front post clear to do the best you can.

Also check to make sure your eye is well centered in the rear aperture for every shot.

[goon]

I am using a 3" black stick-on target on a standard white paper plate as my "standard" rifle target these days. I'm shooting seated from a built-in steel/wooden bench set in concrete at the range. I've gotten some surprisingly good groups from my CZ-452 .22LR at the same distance but can't seem to match that with the AR-15.
As for the glasses, it's possible that they're screwing me up. I try to keep them in the same place on my face and look through the center of the lens. I've never had problems with other peep-sighted or iron-sighted rifles from my glasses though.
The whole thing really has me wondering what I'm doing wrong.

[IndianaBoy]

What type of ammo are you shooting?

I have shot some cheap bulk 223 and milsurp 5.56 that wasn't good for any better than 3 or 4 moa.

Try some match grade ammo if you haven't already.

[pseudonymity]

How large is the front post? Depending on barrel length it could be covering 6-8 MOA or more. I know I have problems with groups when the target is much smaller than the post and I am using a center hold.

Maybe try a target that is the same width in MOA as the front post and try a 6 oclock hold if you are holding center now. I find myself doing less vertical stringing with a 6 oclock hold since it is more obvious when there is a gap between the target and post.

[Ramone]

I'd look into a NM style rear sight, with a selection of apertures, and try to narrow it down to a sight picture that works for you.

getting a good repeatable cheek weld is critical. I have used a little strip of duct tape on the comb of the stock so I can feel if I am on the same spot all the time, and I am always careful to make my weld by going 'in' on my jawbone, then 'down' to my cheekbone every time (if my kid brother was on the board, he'd answer that I do it backwards, but agree that doing it the same every time is key).

[chrome_austex]

Well, try some match quality ammo first. Its possible its just the gun.

Seated with a bipod? Seated on sandbags or sling? Supporting the gun w/ your arm?

Glasses don't work well if you're not looking through the normal center. If you have to look through a corner, they don't perform as well. For highpower shooting, I too had to look from weird angle to get my eye lined up, and ended up going with a pair of custom shooting glasses and lenses (not expensive) which helped a ton. (Bob Jones' frames and the local optometrist did some cheap lenses to my specs).

What size is your rear aperture? Are you using the ghost ring or the peep? If its a ghost-ring, then you have to be VERY precise about line-up.

Before I spent a lot of money on glasses, front sights, NM rears, peep apertures, I'd probably just get a small scope and be done with it. Fighting for sight picture isn't all that fun.

[Lovesbeer99]

What is the diameter of your rear sight? If you are using a combat rear sight that could be a problem. I changed mine to a target sight with a hood and it really helps. You can also get a wider front sight for just a few bucks. If you have a photo of your target please post it.

Make sure you use good or at least decent ammo.

Finally, try mounting a scope on the gun and make sure it's not the gun/ammo. Maybe it's not the sights.